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The Macbook Air: You're all really poor

invigorated said:
Wow how things change in the apple-sphere. The outrage and the perceived lack of "value" in a new product. Hello, when was Apple ever, ever, known for releasing value products? In the last year their stuff has become semi-competitive in price, but it's hardly put in the "value" category...
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Have you ever thought that value means more than cheap? Value is the worth of ALL aspect of the product. Apple make very attractive products - that is beyond doubt. The question is how much the aesthetics are worth to people.

IMO people factor in the Apple factor when deciding what price they are willing to pay. It's just that in this case, the premium is too high for a lot of people, including me. I'm sure it will sell okay, but for those needing/wanting higher performance, or who have some must have feature like firewire or replaceable battery, the MBA doesn't represent value. You also have to factor in the cost of workarounds both in time, hassle and money, which reduces the attraction significantly.

It does encourage me that the future direction of Apple is right. However at this price point and with the given set of features, it doesn't represent value to me and many others (that's not saying its bad, merely that to me it's not good enough for the price they want). I'm sure that future iterations of this will be far superior and in a couple of years I'll probably get one. But for now, no.

Plus the bezel being the same size as the Macbook puts me off :p
 
j26 said:
Have you ever thought that value means more than cheap? Value is the worth of ALL aspect of the product. Apple make very attractive products - that is beyond doubt. The question is how much the aesthetics are worth to people.

IMO people factor in the Apple factor when deciding what price they are willing to pay. It's just that in this case, the premium is too high for a lot of people, including me. I'm sure it will sell okay, but for those needing/wanting higher performance, or who have some must have feature like firewire or replaceable battery, the MBA doesn't represent value. You also have to factor in the cost of workarounds both in time, hassle and money, which reduces the attraction significantly.

It does encourage me that the future direction of Apple is right. However at this price point and with the given set of features, it doesn't represent value to me and many others (that's not saying its bad, merely that to me it's not good enough for the price they want). I'm sure that future iterations of this will be far superior and in a couple of years I'll probably get one. But for now, no.

Plus the bezel being the same size as the Macbook puts me off :p
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Ah, but hardware features alone are to often being used to dictate value here. Your not awarding enough to the portability and aesthetics of the device. It's quite clear Apple came up with a stunning package and then worked miracles getting everything they possibly could to fit inside it. Your paying for that magic, which is why it costs more than computers built from standard components. I think people are willing to pay for a computer that looks so much better than anything else out there.
 
bluelight said:
And how much do these cost? Find me a laptop that meets all your specifications, beats the cost of the MBA, and appeals to people who actually have good taste
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vaiox505.jpeg

Carbon fiber notebook released in January, 2004. 1.73 pounds, .3" thick at the thinnest segment. Apple coming out with a thinner notebook 4 years later is barely innovation. This is going for $1399 on ebay with a "buy it now".
 
invigorated said:
Ah, but hardware features alone are to often being used to dictate value here. Your not awarding enough to the portability and aesthetics of the device. It's quite clear Apple came up with a stunning package and then worked miracles getting everything they possibly could to fit inside it. Your paying for that magic, which is why it costs more than computers built from standard components. I think people are willing to pay for a computer that looks so much better than anything else out there.
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Yes... Intel even helped manufacture a "special" processor to fit with it! Even if its upcoming tech, its pretty amazing to me that they would do that... I guess Intel and Apple think the product might sell to a few people :)

C
 
trancepriest said:
vaiox505.jpeg

Carbon fiber notebook released in 2004. 1.73 pounds, .3" thick at the thinnest segment. Apple coming out with a thin notebook is barely innovation. This is going for $1400 on ebay with a "buy it now".
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thats certainly not recent... and it isn't apple

no osx, no backlit keyboard, no mouse pad


find something more recent...

How long ago was that made? It seems like Apple is the only one innovative enough to follow up on it
 
Interesting thing is that Apple appears to have got Intel to make them a semi-custom CPU (the packaging is a format that Intel had on their roadmap down the line a bit - but Apple are getting it now).

Also - Apple don't appear to be slapping on the usual Uber-markup on the SSD.

Anyone got a pic of the underside - cause I thought I saw a little hatch in one of the vids. Perhaps the drive is accessible after all...
 
bluelight said:
It seems like Apple is the only one innovative enough to follow up on it
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LOL... innovative to follow? :D Do you understand the foolishness of what you just said? The Sony Vaio x505 was released 4 years ago... January 2004. Sony stopped making them because they realized that thinnest was not the sweet spot.

"Mike Abary, senior vice president of VAIO product marketing, thought the engineering to get a laptop that thin was extremely impressive. But Sony had a similiar vision for an ultraportable once, a carbon fiber notebook in 2004 called the X505 (above) that eschewed the optical and was 0.3 inches thick (compared to 0.16 of the Air) at its thinnest segment. It wasn't that well received, and research later pointed out that "Thinness is not the holy grail". Making something that thin and sexy cost it too much usability."

http://gizmodo.com/345829/interview-sonys-thoughts-on-the-macbook-air
 
trancepriest said:
LOL... innovative to follow? :D Do you understand the foolishness of what you just said? That sony Vaio x505 was released 4 years ago... January 2004. Sony stopped making them because they realized that thinnest was not the sweet spot.

http://gizmodo.com/345829/interview-sonys-thoughts-on-the-macbook-air

Mike Abary, senior vice president of VAIO product marketing, thought the engineering to get a laptop that thin was extremely impressive. But Sony had a similiar vision for an ultraportable once, a carbon fiber notebook in 2004 called the X505 (above) that eschewed the optical and was 0.3 inches thick (compared to 0.16 of the Air) at its thinnest segment. It wasn't that well received, and research later pointed out that "Thinness is not the holy grail". Making something that thin and sexy cost it too much usability. (Many of you agree in the comments on Giz.)
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FOLLOW UP

THE WORD UP CHANGES THE WHOLE CONTEXT OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
 
trancepriest said:
LOL... innovative to follow? :D Do you understand the foolishness of what you just said? The Sony Vaio x505 was released 4 years ago... January 2004. Sony stopped making them because they realized that thinnest was not the sweet spot.

"Mike Abary, senior vice president of VAIO product marketing, thought the engineering to get a laptop that thin was extremely impressive. But Sony had a similiar vision for an ultraportable once, a carbon fiber notebook in 2004 called the X505 (above) that eschewed the optical and was 0.3 inches thick (compared to 0.16 of the Air) at its thinnest segment. It wasn't that well received, and research later pointed out that "Thinness is not the holy grail". Making something that thin and sexy cost it too much usability. (Many of you agree in the comments on Giz.)"

http://gizmodo.com/345829/interview-sonys-thoughts-on-the-macbook-air
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In 2004 the performance of that laptop was probably pretty bad compared to a heavy beast.

The MBA with a C2D 'CLEARLY' has masses of usability. Especially coupled with a full size keyboard and a 13" screen.

Its like the C2D has all of a sudden become a slow and obsolete processor. Whats up with that? People are still happily working away on their 12" PowerBooks!

I am truly amazed at this whole usability problem people seem to have with a product that has not even shipped yet!

Regards,

C
 
and also, since when are sony laptops "well received"

an apple product is easily recognizable, a sony product is simply... not.
 
Catch said:
The "hatch" is for the usb, etc...

C
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Yah... Just watched the ad again. Oh - well. Shame, as it needs an SSD to make this work. I'm not holding out great hopes for the 1.8 inch spiny drive.

Specs of the top of the range model more or less match my MacBook - so I know it would be usable (don't use optical drive of wired network). And it has a better screen. Less size and weight would be perfect as I already have to lug a Dell around for the office - that MacBook just about eats up the rest of the hand baggage allowance if I want to take it with me to do freelance work when traveling. A MBA would slip into the Dell case real easy.

Give it some time. Let the SSDs get a bit bigger. May be a worthwhile replacement for my MacBook.
 
Catch said:
Its like the C2D has all of a sudden become a slow and obsolete processor. Whats up with that? People are still happily working away on their 12" PowerBooks!
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I actually read a post on another site that said something like "The problem with the MBA is how long will it last before its specs make it obsolete? With web pages getting more involved graphics wise I do not think it will last long with its specs."

What?
 
trancepriest said:
In 2004 Apple did not have a sub notebook and the performance of the iBooks and Powerbooks were terrible... period.
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They still don't have a sub-notebook as far as I am concerned. I would call the MBA an ultra portable... That was not the point of my post however. The point was that in 2004 productivity on ultra portable computers was not great... technology is making ultra portables extremely capable in 2008 and the MBA is certainly that. :)

The PowerBooks were ace computers and powerful enough in those days. Apples laptops have always been well received considering how small their market share is across the whole computer line...

C
 
diabolic said:
I actually read a post on another site that said something like "The problem with the MBA is how long will it last before its specs make it obsolete? With web pages getting more involved graphics wise I do not think it will last long with its specs."

What?
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I would say web pages are slowly becoming simpler and simpler... take google for example. and apple.
 
Catch said:
The MBA with a C2D 'CLEARLY' has masses of usability. Especially coupled with a full size keyboard and a 13" screen.
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I've used a MacBook - which processor and memory wise is more or less what the top end MBA packs. Illustrator, Photoshop, and InDesign work for the most part. Works just fine. The MBA has better graphics and probably a far better screen. Of course I was able to plug away on an old Mac Mini for eighteen months. Not flashy, but it got the job done and brought in the money for a nice upgrade to a Mac Pro when they launched. The MacBook was bought later for when i needed to work on the move (or get a little freelance work done in the lunch break).

If I were in the market, i'd probably get the 1.8 SSD. If they were offering a 128GB SSD in it at the current price I would be tempted just to get it now anyway. As it is - I'll probably run the MacBook for another year and see what is on offer (or until SSD price/size sorts itself out - or I get an real nice cheque in the post - blew the last one on an iPhone and the phone bill is covered by the office - hahahah).
 
diabolic said:
I actually read a post on another site that said something like "The problem with the MBA is how long will it last before its specs make it obsolete? With web pages getting more involved graphics wise I do not think it will last long with its specs."

What?
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You are kidding right? Who wrote that?! Pictures on a website? thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The MBA can play back video! I think the internet connection speed would be a much bigger problem than the MBA rendering web photos! :D

As for becoming obsolete. Ultra Portable computers always suffer from this in my opinion. People that spend the extra money on cutting edge tech knows this. These machines are not a cheap option for mobility. Being fragile is another problem I am sure. Again, people that buy them will be aware of this. I replace my laptops pretty much every year. I just pass them down the food chain in the company so I guess I am lucky like that. :)

Regards,

C
 
trancepriest said:
Following up is completely different than following... lol.. please explain the definition of following up? In the context of the MBA does that mean following Sony design from 4 years a go and then making it thinner and if so.. is that innovation? Is that a new idea?
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You keep rephrasing following up with the word following. It doesn't work like that. to follow is to copy or mimick, but to follow up is to take something and improve it and make it your own. Apple is the only one who did that, and thus the MBA was born.

You can't call it following. Just because most computers switched to core 2 duo processors after apple did does not make it following... it is following up on the newest technology while at the same time using innovation to make that technology appeal to a specific group of people.

enough lessons in english though, we have schools for this
 
bluelight said:
Call me an idiot, but the way everyone is trashing the MBA makes me want to buy it even more.

A lot of people are complaining about the border around the screen, the battery, the speakers, the keyboard colour, and nitpicking at every other component of the MBA, but I think what everyone is really mad about is the price.

If you can't afford it, don't try to convince yourself that it is a crappy machine by pointing out all of its flaws. The MacBook Air, when finally shipped, will function perfectly for what it is meant for.

SO STOP COMPLAINING. There is nothing wrong with it. It was introduced as the world's thinnest laptop, not the world's most powerful laptop. TOO BAD IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT.

Can't wait to buy it when they have it in stores :)
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I'm not trashing it but why the "TOO BAD IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT" remark? That's a bit snooty, don't you think? Or dare I say arrogant? Learn to count your blessings.
 
Catch said:
They still don't have a sub-notebook as far as I am concerned.
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Interestingly enough, I've got this iPhone thingy that does just about everything I'd want to do on a sub-notebook.

I would call the MBA an ultra portable...
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Which is exactly the kind of thing I'd want to work on. The most important part is the bit I have to touch all the time - the keyboard. Then the next bit is the screen. Performance is not such an issue because there is no such thing as a slow processor these days. The bottleneck on performance is the storage system - and SSD technology is rapidly solving that one.
 
Despite the slow processor and small HD, I would totally buy one if I came up with $10,000. I'd buy a Mac Pro for storage and heavy processing (I do HD) and use the MBA (with the SSD) for portability and back to my mac file usage. I've grown a little fond of the thing, but the one major flaw I see is there is no FW. I use FW all the time and USB for my iPod. Ah well, if only, if only...
 
bluelight said:
Apple is the only one who did that, and thus the MBA was born.
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follow something up pursue or investigate something further : I decided to follow up the letters with phone calls.

So for 4 years Apple has been pursuing Sony? That sounds like Microsoft following up on Apple. Is that innovation? Hey I'm going by the dictionary definition here buddy.
 
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