The MacRumors Show: Giving Vision Pro Another Chance

[deaglecat]

I am not going to judge anyone who bought into the 1st Gen M2 AVP, but I do think apple should have offered an upgrade path to the M5.

These folk are the early adopters, the evangelists who have a keen interest in the potential of the product.

Surely it is a solvable problem to refurbish the exchanged M2 ones for resale and grow the user base.

 

[vantelimus]

I think I’ll wait for a good theatrical video app in Galaxy XR, hopefully Skybox will release in that platform, and I’ll try that instead of going M5.

If the displays on the Galaxy really are comparable to the AVP, then it will probably be the better option for the video-consumption-only consumer who doesn't care about integration into an Apple-centric professional environment. If you don't care about virtual displays, seamless integration, and the continuity suite of features Apple offers, there's no need to pay an extra $1500 for things you won't use.

 

[lusty]

it uses an archaic format for 3D movies

It’s funny you should say that, 3D movies are also a massive failure that people who don’t understand consumers keep trying to make happen.

 

[lusty]

Yet Jobs released a dozen+ flops during his time at Apple.

Did he? The one I can think of is Newton which wasn’t a flop, I’m typing on its descendent now. The difference is that AVP isn’t waiting for technology to catch up, it’s waiting for a reason to exist. 400,000 rich idiots isn’t a success in 2025, it’s a demonstration of a broken society.

 

[lilkwarrior]

It’s funny you should say that, 3D movies are also a massive failure that people who don’t understand consumers keep trying to make happen.

…The home format for 3D movies (Blu-Ray 3D) is extremely underwhelming as well as it being grossly constrained by TVs and headsets too low-end in resolution, frame rates, premium HDR support and other capabilities to do well.

Apple actually created a proprietary 3D movie format (MV-HEVC) for Vision Pro’s 3D movie support to finally fix home video 3D as well as a prosumer headset for spatial computing to not be bottlenecked in similar ways being limited to headsets to low-end for meaningful computing beyond low-end games like the Quest 3.

Good technology fundamentally can be constrained by too low-end baselines and hardware all the time.

It’s hard for pure consumers who aren’t tech savvy nor creative and don’t want to (or have to) but their options are limited to appreciate such tech.

That’s absolutely the case for many tech utilized too conservatively or with consumer-facing software/options of its ideal representation too scarce.

 

[vantelimus]

I just have one word for the Vision. Wifi6. How can Apple be so stupid and not use the 6G band at least 160Mhz. Just crazy, like a Ferrari with wooden wheels.

The device will support 1200Mbps. Spatial video streaming requires ~80Mbps at the high end. Even ProRes video only requires ~800Mbps. What is your use case?

 

[vantelimus]

Did he? The one I can think of is Newton which wasn’t a flop, I’m typing on its descendent now. The difference is that AVP isn’t waiting for technology to catch up, it’s waiting for a reason to exist. 400,000 rich idiots isn’t a success in 2025, it’s a demonstration of a broken society.

Newton was Scully's idea. Jobs killed it within about 6 months of returning to Apple.

AVP already has a reason if you are a professional user. If you are looking for the next mass market device for consumers, the tech for XR isn't there yet. When it is, you'll be talking about AVP as the precursor to the inexpensive descendent tech you are using at the time–the same way you refer to the Newton as the precursor to whatever device you are referring to today.

 

[doelcm82]

Did he? The one I can think of is Newton which wasn’t a flop, I’m typing on its descendent now. The difference is that AVP isn’t waiting for technology to catch up, it’s waiting for a reason to exist. 400,000 rich idiots isn’t a success in 2025, it’s a demonstration of a broken society.

Chances are you'll be using a descendent of the AVP someday. Newton wasn't released under Jobs' tenure, but it was canceled. Apple decided not to make or sell any more of them. Steve Jobs killed the Newton when he returned to Apple. It was most of a decade later before the iPhone made its debut.

When Newton was still a product, it got lampooned in the comic strip Doonesbury.

[Gary Trudeau] wanted to lampoon boys with their toys, and the Newton’s handwriting recognition–which was already receiving bad press–seemed an easy target, as did the idea of replacing a perfectly good $5 notebook with a $700 computer.​

The Newton wasn't waiting for a reason to exist. I never owned one, but I was carrying pocketable computers even before the Newton got released. I had a Zeos pocket computer and an Atari Portfolio. But I never ran into other people who were using them. Newton was waiting for enough people to recognize how useful it could be.

The AVP isn't waiting for a reason to exist either. I have one. I use it. Lots of people use it (though no one else in my social circle). It's waiting for a reason to thrive. That may not come until a third or fourth generation product, or even a successor product that incorporates Apple Vision technology into some other form.

 

[iPhoneFan5349]

The discussion of whether the AVP M2 was "ready" for its initial launch is a repeat across the evolution of technology. Remember when we all got excited about the internet because we could use our dial-up modem to watch a coffee maker from afar? Or remember how cool it was to hold the iPhone 3G, despite the very few apps were first available? Of course the AVP was initially primitive compared to just months later. And cheers to those pioneers that plunked down their cash to lead the AVP revolution, putting up with a year-plus of clunkiness!

Completely wrong analogy. Those were groundbreaking technologies, AVP wasn’t. It was just Apple’s version of a VR device.

 

[The Game 161]

Had mine 5 days and love it. New band makes things more comfortable and for what I bought it for will fit my use cases. Massive price of course and don’t be for everybody but this is part of the future and we’ll future may not be in this form factor when similar tech gets in glasses down the road it will be exciting times

 

[lilkwarrior]

Had mine 5 days and love it. New band makes things more comfortable and for what I bought it for will fit my use cases. Massive price of course and don’t be for everybody but this is part of the future and we’ll future may not be in this form factor when similar tech gets in glasses down the road it will be exciting times

The form factor will co-exist with glasses. People have a false sense (or pushing a false narrative for derisive-driven clicks) that spatial computing headset development is at the expense of smart glasses or is intended to be the preferred mainstream spatial computing option over glasses.

Like desktops and laptops compared to smart phones the spatial computing needs of many likely fundamentally make more sense with a smaller and more portable form factor regardless how less powerful it has to be or will be to spatial computing headsets.

For more demanding spatial computing experiences standalone and non-standalone headsets will indefinitely make more sense but not for everyone nor most.

Spatial computing glasses that match or is close to a headset in compute and graphics has to cost disproportionately more no different than home replacement laptops and handhelds

 

[Roller]

Maybe they such market it as such because I am sold on that concept. If traveling alone it’s a nice option. Dumb question can you use it on a jet?

Yes, I often use it when flying for more than an hour or two. It doesn’t matter if it’s a jet or prop aircraft.

Using the VP to watch downloaded content, look at photos, explore the night sky in my virtual planetarium, work, or even just chill on a beach, makes the time pass much more quickly and enjoyably.

A search will reveal lots of tips, such as the need to use earbuds, what to say to flight attendants and adjacent passengers, and more.

I’ve also used my VP in hotel rooms when traveling alone.

 

[davwilliams]

It’s a prosumer standalone headset giving those who want to explore spatial computing to get meaningful computing done a serious option (Galaxy XR the only other option) as well as one actually comparable with traditional devices to render non-gaming media at professional/ideal quality including spatial content.

The Meta headset doesn’t fulfill that being primarily for budget gamers not even on par with the current gen of games, doesn’t have HDR, uses an mobile APU instead of a laptop APU; and uses a non-ideal resolution for everything but games.

Even if you overlook the lack of HDR as far as video content, it uses an archaic format for 3D movies compared to the Vision Pro’s MV-HEVC format which is a substantial upgrwde.

Yet one sells and one doesn't.

 

[Ghost31]

I'm happy Apple is still investing in it. $3500 is too rich for my blood, but the demo really blew me away. Certainly felt like the future.

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this opinion. I wish more people had it. This product doesn’t have to be for everybody, but I think we should all be able to agree that the fact that this exists and is being developed on an improved over the next years is a good thing for all of us. We will undoubtedly all benefit from this technology, even if it’s hard to see now.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

I love my AVP. I have used it nearly every day since getting it. Between media and the MacBook screens and my almost non stop travel use it has been well worth the money. For most people the cost is prohibitive and even if the cost was more in line with an average potential user the weight is the second issue for people. I am lucky and the weight has never been an issue thanks to the cap set up that removes the weight from my face entirely. AVP really is a great device. I hope they continue to work on it!

cap set up?

 

[turbineseaplane]

A perfect exchange this morning, showing where things are at here...

 

[phenste]

Imagine me. Traveling 75% of the year. Mostly only with cabin luggage less than 10 kg. Staying in hotels with crappy TV. Missing my 65" OLED TV for movies and my 43" monitor at home for working. Carrying big 15,6" and heavy notebook.

If there was a huge cinema screen and computer monitor with superb image quality which would fit into my cabin luggage...
I want AVP. I already tested it in Apple Store. I'm very impressed.

This was actually one of my first trips with my Vision Pro. Had to go out of town. Stayed in a hotel with crappy cable on a 32inch tv. But i was happy as a clam because i brought my Vision Pro and MacBook and couldn’t wait to play with it.

I remember that weekend watching blade runner 2049 in 4k 3d laying down in what looked like a massive theater screen. Then after i jumped on Mac virtual display and did a little work before bed on a large virtual screen with my laptop across the room and simply a Magic Trackpad on my side and a keyboard on my lap. Was a memorable weekend because i remember how badly I didn’t want to leave town but i ended up enjoying it.

I think this product fits very well for people that travel a lot

thank you both for your real-life perspective on this- it’s good to hear substantive counterarguments to my original points, and I think you both brought up very valid points that I simply hadn’t thought of before, particularly because I’m not a frequent traveller. I can see how AVP would be more-than-beneficial in these types of scenarios !

 

[citysnaps]

Yet one sells and one doesn't.

AVP: So far, 400,000+ sold. Not bad for a high end/performance niche product. And contributing $1.4 Billion in additional Apple revenue.

 

[Cape Dave]

Sorry, this product is dumber than a really dumb box of rocks.

 

[Sundaypapers123]

I *thought* Dan had lost a few pounds...

 

[xmach]

I just have one word for the Vision. Wifi6. How can Apple be so stupid and not use the 6G band at least 160Mhz. Just crazy, like a Ferrari with wooden wheels.

Completely agree. It was surprising and disappointing when VP (M2) was released in early 2024 with only Wi-Fi 6 support, when Wi-Fi 6E was increasingly prevalent at the time. Now in late 2025 with the M5 VP it's downright crazy that Wi-Fi remains stuck at 6 instead of 7, which many of Apple's latest devices (e.g. iPhones) support. Why didn't Apple incorporate the N1 chip into the M5 VP??

In any event, as Apple becomes more comfortable with its in-house networking chips, it's likely that the next VP (or whatever product in the Vision series) will incorporate the N1 chip or some successor/variant, bringing support for at least Wi-Fi 7, Bluetooth 6, and Thread. The increased bandwidth and lower latency (relative to Wi-Fi 6) might be especially helpful for the Mac virtual display application.

 

[richinaus]

Sorry, this product is dumber than a really dumb box of rocks.

Can you provide further information on your in-depth analysis?

 

[lilkwarrior]

Yet one sells and one doesn't.

…A mainstream product is always expected to be bought much more than a prosumer product being much cheaper even sold at unrealistic (at a loss) prices. Meta loses tens of billions per year doing business this way.

A prosumer product sales target is not mainstream sales (that’s a best case scenario and usually impractical because there isn’t enough supply of the parts needed) nor its target audience cares if most can afford it or justify such a product

 

[dmi]

content is all displayed at a relatively fixed focal distance--our lenses barely need to adjust when looking around.

Which can be appropriate when the content is a virtual Mac screen.
And convenient, when one has presbyopia.

 

[Ghost31]

AVP: So far, 400,000+ sold. Not bad for a high end/performance niche product. And contributing $1.4 Billion in additional Apple revenue.

As far as I remember, that’s an old number from last year. It might actually be double that with the refresh and updates and everything