Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The MacRumors Show: Our Plan to Fix Apple's Product Lines
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Or just one iPhone (year 2023) with 3 display sizes with best tech of the year and sell along with the model of the previous year. Could be best for cutting the costs of development.
I think Apple's biggest problem at the moment is the terrible base specs. for these machines. No base model computer should have less than 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD at the present prices. In general the range seems to be crafted to always make you buy the next stage or machine up.
Sorry Dan & Hartley, but a lot of your ideas clearly need more thought on your proposed lineup changes. I feel you both contained a lot of bias in your opinions. Although I did like the idea of extending the colours throughout the pro range.
Totally agree ! I just really miss the Steve Jobs era in general. Those were the true golden days of Apple ✨I miss the simplicity of the iPhone lineup. When less was considered more. Simpler times! 💫
I have to be honest, given how many techie folks use Apple products I find the “confusion” astounding. Read the specs, pick a product. It just doesn‘t seem the difficult. Do people really struggle knowing what to buy? Or is this just an “I can do better” thing?
Who genuinely finds the product line up confusing?
Who genuinely finds the product line up confusing?
Why do we have an Air Moniker. I don't really understand why the Ipad and Mac are called Airs. Wouldn't Basic be better because they are not as advanced as the pros are? It's not like the two devices are airy or anything.
I found the line up a little confusing when I was shopping for an iPad. The difference for instance between a regular iPad and an Air is not immediately obvious. Fortunately, a relative who had one was able to help but it would have taken me quite a while to decide otherwise. Surely two varieties is enough.
Agree a million percent. SE is the best phone there is. Especially for real humans that aren't staring at screens all day.
They should sell 2 gens behind as refurbished only. I just bought a 12 Pro refurb but wouldn’t consider paying full price for a 12.
He cut it to save costs. Why is it a problem now for you that they have "too much" models? They still don't make the one I want
But first of all, remove the camera bump. The main selling point of the ipads is the pencil, and the main selling point of the mini is it's small size and weight. Then some idiot came, upgraded the rear camera most people never use and shouldn't even exist in the first place, and now the mini is either heavier and thicker because of a case, or you can't use the pencil on a flat surface. And they are probably sooo proud of themselves that they've put in a better camera.
Lol, he simplified the product line because they were bleeding so much money that Microsoft had to save them. And now you guys make up a whole marketing-genius myth around it.
Does anyone else wish that there were a transcript of the show? Don't have an hour to spend watching it. If there were a transcript it would only take a few minutes.
I dunno. Mine was great when I got it, but iOS 16 really killed it. You could get a regular 13 but see at most an incremental gain. Basically each OS version is harder on battery than the last. They add a few new daemons and generally ignore the effects of other changes on battery. Now you can even turn off all background activity and location / bluetooth access for an app and still it will find ways to run. Tell Mail to check accounts only manually and still it will check on its own. Etc.. The incentive for Apple is not in the direction of improving battery life because that's one of their biggest selling points for new hardware these days.
I agree the existing line up of products is way too confusing. It’s way too cluttered. The naming conventions suck. Max, Pro, Mini, Air, Plus, Ultra - WTF are you doing Apple? It’s just awful.
I will say, iPad Mini is the best iPad I’ve ever had.
I will say, iPad Mini is the best iPad I’ve ever had.
Last edited:
I know two people who were against considering a mini (because of its name). Did they hold one? No. I convinced one of them to go hold one after much resistance (Why won't you hold one and see? "Because I don't want a mini iPhone!") and they said to me afterward, "now I know what you mean, it's bigger than I thought it would be" —misnamed!
I believe, even going into the coming years they should keep the home button model around to make crystal clear the budget line from the premium line, and similar to my signature, I think they should get rid of the current Pro branding and iPhone numbering, and just do one line of phones (besides the SE line in two sizes) and do it in four sizes with thin bezels and a tri-camera system across the board. Make the smaller iPhones incrementally thicker to add battery and to fit the bigger and better professional lens designs. The biggest issue with iPhone camera these days is overzealous post-processing. But better lens designs are a good thing.
Some people think the mini is the best size and some people think the X is the best size, so regular iPhone should meet halfway at 5.6", arguably making it the favourite size for a good percentage of users. And it would be slightly thicker for pro-level camera lens tech, higher energy use 120 Hz display, and longer battery life. There are still two larger iPhones for those who feel they need a big iPhone (6.2" and 6.8").
This covers the budget conscious iPhone customer and offers a clean a clear premium range in four great sizes; from small, to mid, to big, and very big. Get rid of all other iPhones, cleaning up the entire iPhone line while offering a size for most every desire. Boom 💥
P.S. Start every iPhone at 128 GB and give every iPhone the same main processor and USB-C and Qi2, even the SE line. This means game and app performance and development is consistent and simple across every iPhone. Premium iPhones would differentiate then with faster, better, brighter displays, more and better camera lenses, better battery life, giant screen size options, and fullscreen button-less, Face ID, dynamic island designs. Two simple iPhone lines, and a decent size selection.
I believe, even going into the coming years they should keep the home button model around to make crystal clear the budget line from the premium line, and similar to my signature, I think they should get rid of the current Pro branding and iPhone numbering, and just do one line of phones (besides the SE line in two sizes) and do it in four sizes with thin bezels and a tri-camera system across the board. Make the smaller iPhones incrementally thicker to add battery and to fit the bigger and better professional lens designs. The biggest issue with iPhone camera these days is overzealous post-processing. But better lens designs are a good thing.
Some people think the mini is the best size and some people think the X is the best size, so regular iPhone should meet halfway at 5.6", arguably making it the favourite size for a good percentage of users. And it would be slightly thicker for pro-level camera lens tech, higher energy use 120 Hz display, and longer battery life. There are still two larger iPhones for those who feel they need a big iPhone (6.2" and 6.8").
This covers the budget conscious iPhone customer and offers a clean a clear premium range in four great sizes; from small, to mid, to big, and very big. Get rid of all other iPhones, cleaning up the entire iPhone line while offering a size for most every desire. Boom 💥
P.S. Start every iPhone at 128 GB and give every iPhone the same main processor and USB-C and Qi2, even the SE line. This means game and app performance and development is consistent and simple across every iPhone. Premium iPhones would differentiate then with faster, better, brighter displays, more and better camera lenses, better battery life, giant screen size options, and fullscreen button-less, Face ID, dynamic island designs. Two simple iPhone lines, and a decent size selection.
Last edited:
I just have an issue with calling the highest line of chips and possibly future iPhones ‘Ultra’.
Did they forget the actual definition of the word ‘Max’?
Did they forget the actual definition of the word ‘Max’?
I paid £449 for the iPhone 4 when it came out, didn't realise it was a bit higher "officially".
iPhone 4 UK Pricing Revealed | Silicon UK Tech News
Apple has revealed UK pricing details for its fourth generation iPhone, and is accepting pre-orders on its websitewww.silicon.co.uk
"Apple has revealed UK pricing details for its fourth generation iPhone, and is accepting pre-orders on its website
Apple today announced UK pricing for its iPhone 4, and the black version of the handset is now available for pre-order on the company’s website. The 16GB model will cost £499, and the 32GB model costs £599.
British network operators have not officially announced pricing tariffs for the Apple handset, but Vodafone’s tariffs were briefly leaked on the operator’s website yesterday. According to the leak, Vodafone customers signing up for a two-year contract at £45 per month will be entitled to a free 16GB iPhone and, with a £60 per month contract, the 32GB model will also be free.
However, customers signing up to the more standard £25-a-month tariff on a two-year contract will have to buy their iPhones for £189 or £280 respectively. Vodafone has denied the accuracy of the leak, describing the leaked page as a “test website”."
128GB iPhone 14 Pro Max is £1199.00
£499 in 2010 would be worth £733.65 in June 2023. £499 is 41.62% of the price of the 14 Pro Max; £733.65 is 61.2% of the price of the 14 Pro Max.
£599 in 2010 would be worth £880.67 in June 2023. £599 is 49.96% of the price of the 14 Pro Max while £880.67 is 73.45% of the price of the 14 Pro Max.
I don't think “dumbing things down” for consumers is the answer. Besides, it's not just Apple that offers a range of phone options as other smartphone makers like Samsung, Motorola, Huawei, etc. do too and long have.
Adjusting for inflation, the pre-sales tax unlocked iPhone 4 price would be around $880 USD (16GB) and $1,020 USD (32GB) in today's dollars. The pre-VAT price of 128GB iPhone 14 Pro Max in the UK is around £999 which at the current exchange rate is around $1,280 USD. $880 USD and $1,020 USD are much more than just 1/3 the price of the Pro Max in the UK. Also, the 14 Pro Max is a notably larger (display size, storage size, battery size) and more capable phone than the 4.
By introducing the Pro line of phones, Apple had essentially added a higher level filet mignon option to the menu which didn't exist years ago. You can't compare filet mignon to sirloin.
The iPhone 4 was undoubtedly the finest cut that year. To suggest it wasn't is silly. Your chopping and changing of currencies to try to make your point also doesn't help your case. 1/3 price I quoted was for UK and Europe. At £499 vs £1,199, it's not a third, but it's as close to a third as it is to half the cost, (not taking into account the unfortunate inflation of the last 18 months.)
Edit: also worth pointing out that while inflation has recently gone mad, salaries have largely stagnated, so a modern day top of the range iPhone is going to be a LOT harder to afford than one from 12 years ago.
lol the first two comments in this thread are completely opposite. The comment just before yours says they’d bring back the mini (giving more size options) and yours says Apple should remove some of their size options.I miss the simplicity of the iPhone lineup. When less was considered more. Simpler times! 💫
Personally I like the idea of more size options but maybe they’re in a sweet spot right now if some people feel they need more and some people feel they offer too many already.
Although Apple did improve the simplicity removing the “S” models and simply going by generations, but then the 8 coming out at the same time as the X was confusing for many people, and the 11 being better than the 10 in some ways but worse in other ways was also confusing. And their new “Ultra” naming for the Watch which is really a completely different model and not an “Ultra” version of the Watch is also kind of confusing.
Apple has put a lot more thought into their lineup for the masses than I have. For me, I just want the best of the best. I couldn’t care less if they dropped the non-pro models; however, I would LOVE for them to figure out a solution for PWM with the ubiquitous OLED screens. Personally I consider OLED worse than LCD specifically for this reason, but that’s where we get back into subjective territory over what is the “best”.
I also would like a better version of the stainless steel Watch. I have no interest in a rugged titanium Watch but I would love the features of the Ultra in classy/sleek stainless steel model.
I guess the big take away is there’s no way to make everyone happy.
Last edited:
Fwiw, those are subsidized contract prices. Purchasing the iPhone 4 outright started at $599 for the 16gb AT&T model and $648 for the 16gb Verizon model (an extra $100 with either carrier for the 32gb).
The iPhone 4 was Apple’s "finest" smartphone at the time but not necessarily the finest in the market and certainly didn't have the capabilities of today's Pro level phones. Apple would eventually up its (higher end) game and bring out Pro models to compete more with brands like Sony but that was adding another layer above the regular iPhones for those interested.
Salaries may or may not quite be keeping up with inflation by they are far far from unchanged versus a dozen or so years ago.
To suggest an iPhone 4 is on the same level as a 14 Pro Max in price, market position, etc. is absurd. That's kind of like trying to compare a Ford Model T to today's Ford Expedition.