Apple is very simple yet very complicated at the same time. They have what, 3-4 major OS’s that are essentially similar and continuous across hardware and now Vision OS. I believe the fragmentation and proliferation of hardware models is driven by the desire to offer multiple price points to maximize profit margins. This might change with a new CEO or maybe it’s become a indelible part of Apple culture at this point. The best they can so is offer a streamlined guide that maintains a simple perspective throughout to help guide people to the best hardware that fits their needs and budget. I stopped over buying along time ago when I got tired of getting milked for major money and figured out I didn’t need all the excess/unused capacity between upgrade cycles I thought I needed.
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The MacRumors Show: Our Plan to Fix Apple's Product Lines
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Frankly, I believe alot of this is driven purely by employees trying to qualify for corporate stock options and bonuses.
I’m with the person on the left, the one with the awesome deep voice. I have a mini 5.4” and I think a 5.8” would still be small enough but sell well enough to not be dropped. Other sizes and names I don’t care about. I prefer to keep the price under $700 (like the mini, which I actually got a 12 and 13 for around $500 new). So size and price. Not going back to thumbprint and 4.x” like the SE. Nope. Nope. Nope.
I’ve thought that for almost 10 years. And yet my workplace tried to give me a 8gb RAM Dell as a new replacement computer with Windows 10 and for running Adobe products and Office 365 🙄 My office had to pay $100 for a memory upgrade to 16GB, which doesn’t allow me to scan paper and run any Office 365 product at the same time :/
With you. x2 (me and my husband). That said, if something happened to one of our phones, we would be forced to replace it due to it being required for workplace communication (even though we pay for the phone and monthly Verizon bill).
That sucks, Apple lost some users who wanted bigger screens, when they had one model. It’s usually how products evolve, first few generations, people are in awe. As more and more users want different Configs, it would be dumb for apple not to offer newer variation groups. I am glad Apple has evolved, I have all screen sizes from Mini, Pro, SE and PM in the household.I miss the simplicity of the iPhone lineup. When less was considered more. Simpler times! 💫
Steve cut off multiple unrelated products and libraries. He did release many mac variations, iPod variations and configs. I don’t see current Apple deviating much. If they did, you would see Intel Mac Pro, or laptops where you can add egpu or external ram chips. Nothing wrong with offering different configurations or screen sizes with out deviating from stratergy. They are sticking to Apple silicon unified memory across devices.
MacPro negates your point. Mac Pro reflects clear strategy Apple has for over all of Mac Line. It is single SOC with packaged unified memory. They are not deviating from that for Mac Pro unlike many on these forums who want different architecture MacPro with separate GPU, external Ram, and all customizations.
Steve would have done exact same, don’t offer million variations outside your strategy. It may push some Mac Pro users, but Apple sticks to its silicon strategy.
Steve offered Tom of variations in iPods, macs, and his simplifying was more on strategic level.
We used to be able to do that. But TBH today's baked-on UMA RAM is so much more competent we need to expect to pay more. IIRC Apple's SSDs are also superior, and the Thunderbolt in all Macs does allow third party external storage at reasonable throughput.
Margin percentages are still at around 65% ish (depending on source), yes. That makes each individual unit a lot more profitable than before.
Iphones: Absolutely with Hartley on the Mini!! though preferably 5.4 and not 5.8. With the newer more power efficient chips it should deal with the question of battery life. An iphone mini pro would be perfect. I have a 12 mini and unless there is some sort of miracle with the 15 my next phone will be a 13 mini before they stop making it. My family all have later fatter phones and every time I pick one up I'm so happy to have what I have. Colours? my phone is always in a case so I just don't care. The range structure as per Hartley's idea is absolutely fine- covers all the real variation in needs and is immediately comprehensible. No more pro max with added sprinkles. Storage sizes? I like having everything in one place - not in the cloud- so there must be a reasonably big size and if you like, a reasonably small one.
Ipads: as for the phones a mini pro please! I would really like a mini pro with two ports, preferably thunderbolt, for connecting to a screen or external storage device. It fits a dji drone controller (just) so is really useful. Bigger ipads, I don't have a need for them- they don't work as a laptop replacement because no proper filing system and the ones with a magic keyboard/ case weigh as much or more than a laptop so no thanks. I can see they are great for others- I would use it for taking notes but the lack of a filing system is a real killer for my workflow. Again the proposed rationalisation to the range was logical but the plastic cheapo ones almost certainly aren't going to happen because Apple. A 'school' model would be a great idea and bring kids into the ecosystem which must be good for Apple.
Macs: Currently the laptop range is a real mess and needs to be rationalised! Too many laptops mostly too close in spec. We have traditionally used macbook pros as work/ home laptops. Now during/post covid running two large screens has become the norm. No enthusiasm for big/heavy laptops especially the current pro 14" which is ridiculously heavy. My wife has one and regrets her choice every time she has to travel with it. As soon as there is 13/14" air that can run two screens, hers will be on ebay. I have gone in a different direction, a Studio and an old Intel 13" macbook pro with touchbar (yes I know you dis it but I find it quite useful if not essential)- I use a mechanical keyboard so even when it was being used as a main machine the case was closed so touchbar only used when travelling. One product feature that I would really like is a change to MacOS: a way of keeping two macs fully synced. 10 years ago it was really easy but now this feature is totally broken. Not everyone is allowed to use the cloud, especially for legal/security requirements- even the new more secure encrypted version. So a way of keeping two macs synced would be very useful–not only is this more secure but it adds redundancy- a complete spare backup. Migration assistant sort of works but not quite.
iMacs? Only one screen after having got used to working with two? Nope.
Finally on the colours: yes it would be very nice and neat to have all the pro devices in the same colour etc. But who except Elon Musk would be able to spend the dosh to replace all his devices at the same time so they 'match'?
All in all, a great discussion! Well done Dan and Hartley!
Ipads: as for the phones a mini pro please! I would really like a mini pro with two ports, preferably thunderbolt, for connecting to a screen or external storage device. It fits a dji drone controller (just) so is really useful. Bigger ipads, I don't have a need for them- they don't work as a laptop replacement because no proper filing system and the ones with a magic keyboard/ case weigh as much or more than a laptop so no thanks. I can see they are great for others- I would use it for taking notes but the lack of a filing system is a real killer for my workflow. Again the proposed rationalisation to the range was logical but the plastic cheapo ones almost certainly aren't going to happen because Apple. A 'school' model would be a great idea and bring kids into the ecosystem which must be good for Apple.
Macs: Currently the laptop range is a real mess and needs to be rationalised! Too many laptops mostly too close in spec. We have traditionally used macbook pros as work/ home laptops. Now during/post covid running two large screens has become the norm. No enthusiasm for big/heavy laptops especially the current pro 14" which is ridiculously heavy. My wife has one and regrets her choice every time she has to travel with it. As soon as there is 13/14" air that can run two screens, hers will be on ebay. I have gone in a different direction, a Studio and an old Intel 13" macbook pro with touchbar (yes I know you dis it but I find it quite useful if not essential)- I use a mechanical keyboard so even when it was being used as a main machine the case was closed so touchbar only used when travelling. One product feature that I would really like is a change to MacOS: a way of keeping two macs fully synced. 10 years ago it was really easy but now this feature is totally broken. Not everyone is allowed to use the cloud, especially for legal/security requirements- even the new more secure encrypted version. So a way of keeping two macs synced would be very useful–not only is this more secure but it adds redundancy- a complete spare backup. Migration assistant sort of works but not quite.
iMacs? Only one screen after having got used to working with two? Nope.
Finally on the colours: yes it would be very nice and neat to have all the pro devices in the same colour etc. But who except Elon Musk would be able to spend the dosh to replace all his devices at the same time so they 'match'?
All in all, a great discussion! Well done Dan and Hartley!
Every Apple product should follow this no numbering (just the yes 2023 or 2024):
- SE (Previous gen with medium size screen)
- Air (small with pro features)
- Pro (medium size screen better battery than Air)
- Ultra (big screen and bigger battery)
That’s it !
And definitely 5.4” rather 5.8” or else the difference with 6.1” not noticeable and 5.4” feels better in the hand.
- SE (Previous gen with medium size screen)
- Air (small with pro features)
- Pro (medium size screen better battery than Air)
- Ultra (big screen and bigger battery)
That’s it !
And definitely 5.4” rather 5.8” or else the difference with 6.1” not noticeable and 5.4” feels better in the hand.
I could buy that argument about RAM, as much as I don't like it. But I don't think Apple are hitting PCI-E 4.0 speeds of 7000MB/sec+, never mind PCI-E 5.0
He cut off the “consumer” Performa/Educational product line because it was redundant and confusing, replicating identical products with various model numbers. And he stopped the pro level bleeding caused by OS licensing.
He changed the product line to “i” and “Power” for consumer and pro, and didn’t duplicate products between them. Then reality set inside.
In a concession to the education market he created an eMac only to end up selling it to the public when he realized that what people really wanted was multiple screen sized iMacs, which was a return to the product path of his predecessors (multiple sized AOI) which he had dismissed.
iBooks had to have a larger size too, and PowerBook had to have a small size because the market demanded it. There was a reason Apple had a diverse offering when he took over. And after cleaning house, he had to backtrack to fill gaps.
Now with him gone, things just get more and more muddled.
Currently you can buy 9 different phone models, with 2-4 different storage sizes, in many different colors, with differences for different markets. 100+ SKUs.
And the iPad model line is a bigger mess.
+1 for the “iPhone Pro mini.“ I wish Apple would undo the decision to couple better features and better materials with bigger devices. I want a high-quality, feature-rich phone that is comfortable to operate with one hand. This was possible until the iPhone X.
Starting with the iPhone 12 Pro, Apple began forcing a trade-off between size and premium materials and features. For me, one-handed phone operation takes precedence — as I have my iPad Pro for larger screen “lean-back” tasks, and my MacBook Pro for “lean forward” productivity tasks. With this change I halted my practice of buying the top of the line iPhone and traded-down to the mini as I prefer a less-functional phone that’s comfortable to use one-handed vs a premium, feature-rich two-handed phablet.
The mini costs significantly less and provides me with 80% of the desired utility. However, I’m willing to pay a premium for a high-quality, feature-rich phone that is comfortable to operate with one hand. I don’t think I’m alone and believe Apple is leaving money on the table by forcing this size vs quality/functionality trade-off.
Starting with the iPhone 12 Pro, Apple began forcing a trade-off between size and premium materials and features. For me, one-handed phone operation takes precedence — as I have my iPad Pro for larger screen “lean-back” tasks, and my MacBook Pro for “lean forward” productivity tasks. With this change I halted my practice of buying the top of the line iPhone and traded-down to the mini as I prefer a less-functional phone that’s comfortable to use one-handed vs a premium, feature-rich two-handed phablet.
The mini costs significantly less and provides me with 80% of the desired utility. However, I’m willing to pay a premium for a high-quality, feature-rich phone that is comfortable to operate with one hand. I don’t think I’m alone and believe Apple is leaving money on the table by forcing this size vs quality/functionality trade-off.
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Selling 9 different phone models isn’t too much. Especially when all phones use same processor line, existing designs. Also,Phones are much more personal than macs. Apple sold many different variations of iPods, types, screen sizes, colors. Mac now had very standard lineups, Notebooks, desktops all using same strategy. I would be worried if Apple started designing new chips for each phone or max, or use unified memory in one and non unified memory in others.
Woah, I just noticed that Dan and Hartley look a lot alike. Same kind of smile, nose, eyebrows, etc. Could be mistaken for father and son to the uninitiated.
I'm hoping we get a Mini refresh when they move over to USB C. I'm worried they'll just abandon it though.
I agree that I'd rather have a Mini pro than a normal Mini. What I'd really like is for a *thicker* mini. I don't need it to be especially thing. Make it thick enough that it doesn't need a camera bump, and fill that extra space with battery.
Again, Apple is making more dollar profit largely because we are talking about higher dollars (before adjusting for inflation) and much higher unit sales.
They're making "higher dollars" per device before and after adjusting for inflation. And yes, obviously if they sell a ton more now they make more profit over all
The average iPhone sold for around $988 USD in March 2023 which is up from $882 USD a year prior. Adjusting for inflation, unlocked iPhone 4 prices were around $880 USD (16GB) to $1,020 USD (32GB).
Having worked in a store I had similar product perspectives.
In regards to phones - the older phones actually sold very well to people, generally older, that wanted a larger screen but not the hefty price, also to parents buying their kids phones. The older iphones also sold very well to kids buying their parents phones.
Ipad pros - the store I worked at hosted unsanctioned art night where students would gather and share art and ideas. Most had the smaller ipad pros. The larger pro sold better but the smaller pro was no slouch in sales.
Ipads - hated selling them because it was extremely confusing too many models with a mixed array of features and price points.
ipad mini - always thought this device was overlooked. This makes for a fantastic device for home automation and for younger children. I still have an older one that I use solely for automation without all the clutter on my regular ipad.
In regards to phones - the older phones actually sold very well to people, generally older, that wanted a larger screen but not the hefty price, also to parents buying their kids phones. The older iphones also sold very well to kids buying their parents phones.
Ipad pros - the store I worked at hosted unsanctioned art night where students would gather and share art and ideas. Most had the smaller ipad pros. The larger pro sold better but the smaller pro was no slouch in sales.
Ipads - hated selling them because it was extremely confusing too many models with a mixed array of features and price points.
ipad mini - always thought this device was overlooked. This makes for a fantastic device for home automation and for younger children. I still have an older one that I use solely for automation without all the clutter on my regular ipad.
SE can still be "special" (in purpose) in that it's different from other current devices e.g., the iPhone SE has a Touch ID home button, is more affordably priced, etc. "Special" doesn’t necessarily have to mean better or latest.
No name at all? Do you really think it would be a good idea for Apple to start calling the iPhone SE simply the iPhone?
Problem with too many variations and longevity sometimes it is better value wise to get last years higher end model over current years model. One example is iPhone 13 Pro Max over iPhone 14 Plus