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wigby

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On this week's episode of The MacRumors Show, we take a deep dive into the experience of using Apple's Vision Pro headset and what to expect when it goes on sale next year.


Dan is one of the lucky individuals who has had a chance to try out Vision Pro, so we discuss his personal experience with the device. We talk through the headset's comfort, external battery pack, eye-tracking, and input mechanisms, as well as its price point, and whether it can replace any existing Apple devices.


We reflect on Vision Pro's eye tracking technology and what sort of trajectory the product line is likely to follow. We also touch on whether the 15-inch MacBook Air has lived up to expectations now that users have got their hands on it.

Listen to The MacRumors Show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Pocket Casts, Castro, Google Podcasts, or your preferred podcasts app. You can also copy our RSS feed directly into your podcast player. Watch a video version of the show on the MacRumors YouTube channel.


If you haven't already listened to the previous episode of The MacRumors Show, listen to our discussion with Andru Edwards and Kevin Nether from the Apple Podcasts studio in Apple Park to discuss first impressions of the Vision Pro headset and the wave of other announcements the company made at WWDC this year.

Subscribe to The MacRumors Show for more episodes, where we discuss some of the topical news breaking here on MacRumors, often joined by exciting guests like Arnold Kim, Ben Sullins, Mark Gurman, Marcus Kane, Christopher Lawley, Frank McShan, David Lewis, Tyler Stalman, Jon Prosser, Sam Kohl, Quinn Nelson, John Gruber, Federico Viticci, Sara Dietschy, Luke Miani, Thomas Frank, Jonathan Morrison, iJustine, Ross Young,... Click here to read rest of article

Article Link: The MacRumors Show: Vision Pro Deep Dive Following Our WWDC Demo
Can anyone (@Dan Barbera or otherwise) tell me if the dinosaur was pre-rendered or not? I've heard many anecdotes and retellings of the dinosaur, butterfly, etc. demos and no one has indicated if the dinosaur was actually reacting to hands and the user's position and movements. They all say that the butterfly landed on their hand and stayed on it (a few journalists said that it was a little glitchy when they moved their hand) but I haven't heard much about the Dino. I bring this up because the one demo that we know was interacting live with the viewer was glitchy by some accounts and yet the dinosaur was amazing looking by all counts and didn't glitch. Was this because the dinosaur was just so larger than life and amazing looking that no one thought to interact with it? Or was it just a pre-rendered CG element that walked through portal, sniffed near a person and whipped its tail around regardless of what/where the user was doing?
 
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ninethirty

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Mar 1, 2006
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They do? Prove it. I’ve read pretty much everything that’s been written about it and the overall consensus is that the product is isolating and extremely unlikely to ever be universally popular. Furthermore, no one has worn this thing for eight straight hours as far as we know, so yeah. Let’s go with reality (also known as “my take” by you.)
Can you post some of those takes you just referred to? The overall consensus that it's isolating and extremely unlikely to be universally popular?
 

Surf Monkey

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Can you post some of those takes you just referred to? The overall consensus that it's isolating and extremely unlikely to be universally popular?










And so forth.
 

MacAddict1978

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Jun 21, 2006
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And so forth.
These do not really support your initial statement. Being isolated from other is NOT the same as the device's technical field of view being isolating while wearing it.

Almost all these articles are citing it would be "isolating" if you're the only one wearing the bloody thing.

But nice try.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
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Looking into a screen that obscures your entire field of vision for eight hours every day of the work week?

Sounds like a nightmare.
Looking into a screen isn’t inherently bad. It just depends if someone is using it how that screen was designed to be used, based on things like its intensity, refresh rate, l pixel density, and focal length of its images. Because otherwise photons are photons, whether from a screen or a bulb or the sun.
 

subjonas

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Feb 10, 2014
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All of this is predicated on the idea that people want to stare into a screen a few millimeters from their eyes that encompasses their entire field of vision for hours on end. Because let’s not fool ourselves. There is a huge difference between a virtual screen overlaid on a live video feed of the world and a physical screen in the actual real world. Never mind the fact that goggles just don’t look cool on any level.
As I said in my last post, I don’t think the difference is as huge as you think. Depends on factors.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
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They do? Prove it. I’ve read pretty much everything that’s been written about it and the overall consensus is that the product is isolating and extremely unlikely to ever be universally popular. Furthermore, no one has worn this thing for eight straight hours as far as we know, so yeah. Let’s go with reality (also known as “my take” by you.)
Reviews by people who actually used it or are they assuming? All the people who actually used it were not able to use it normally in a social setting, it was just a guided tour, so even their testimony is limited, but I haven’t heard any of them say that.
 
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subjonas

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Can anyone (@Dan Barbera or otherwise) tell me if the dinosaur was pre-rendered or not? I've heard many anecdotes and retellings of the dinosaur, butterfly, etc. demos and no one has indicated if the dinosaur was actually reacting to hands and the user's position and movements. They all say that the butterfly landed on their hand and stayed on it (a few journalists said that it was a little glitchy when they moved their hand) but I haven't heard much about the Dino. I bring this up because the one demo that we know was interacting live with the viewer was glitchy by some accounts and yet the dinosaur was amazing looking by all counts and didn't glitch. Was this because the dinosaur was just so larger than life and amazing looking that no one thought to interact with it? Or was it just a pre-rendered CG element that walked through portal, sniffed near a person and whipped its tail around regardless of what/where the user was doing?
There were one or two reviewer videos I saw that said the dinosaur kept looking at the reviewer wherever he moved and I think sniffed him when he got close.

Sorry, can’t remember which reviewer it was though. :(
 

Surf Monkey

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Reviews by people who actually used it or are they assuming? All the people who actually used it were not able to use it normally in a social setting, it was just a guided tour, so even their testimony is limited, but I haven’t heard any of them say that.

Yes. People who have tried it.
 

Surf Monkey

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As I said in my last post, I don’t think the difference is as huge as you think. Depends on factors.

Depends on “factors”?

Vague.

Your eyes did not evolve to focus on a screen that’s millimeters in front of them. No matter how good the screen, that’s still not the same as looking at the real world.

And I’d add, very few have mentioned it but we all know the ultimate end game of every tech like this: advertising. So not only will you be using an isolating mechanism that’s socially distancing due to the supremely uncool look of the device to view a screen mitigated version of reality, it’s also likely to be saturated with ads. Not to mention various subscriptions and the entry cost of the hardware.

The mountain this product has to climb is arguably higher and less scalable than what the Macintosh faced. Seeing a path to ubiquity for it is virtually impossible. I stand by my assessment. It’s likely to end up as Tim Cook’s Newton. I doubt Steve Jobs would have touched this thing.
 

wigby

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Jun 7, 2007
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There were one or two reviewer videos I saw that said the dinosaur kept looking at the reviewer wherever he moved and I think sniffed him when he got close.

Sorry, can’t remember which reviewer it was though. :(
Thanks. I'll look for them. Maybe someone out there has compiled full list of reviews and their experiences on a website.

Edit: I found a reference to the Dino "sensing me and following me as I moved around the room." on Tom's Guide. That is promising for games and other interactive experiences.
 
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topdrawer

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They do? Prove it. I’ve read pretty much everything that’s been written about it and the overall consensus is that the product is isolating and extremely unlikely to ever be universally popular. Furthermore, no one has worn this thing for eight straight hours as far as we know, so yeah. Let’s go with reality (also known as “my take” by you.)


how many people are with you right now as you type on this board? i work alone all day long, a visor is not gonna make a difference in isolation.
 

JapanApple

macrumors 68000
Sep 16, 2022
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. The fact that Zuckerberg is looking forward to trying it, influencers, deep pocketed people. There is a first year sale of 5 million for this device.
Well, I agree with deep pockets people. But for influencers, I can care less what they say.
 

Sinocelt

macrumors newbie
Jun 14, 2023
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Because let’s not fool ourselves. There is a huge difference between a virtual screen overlaid on a live video feed of the world and a physical screen in the actual real world.

So? Some of us would rather isolate ourselves from the outside world when we work. To this day, no VR headset has been good enough to replace actual monitors, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. (It may have happened already, with the Vision Pro. We'll know better next year.)


Never mind the fact that goggles just don’t look cool on any level.

Believe it or not, some people don't care much about this. Especially people who, like @topdrawer, work alone.
 
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BlackBun

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I will be getting Vision Pro. I would carry it around in my backpack. What kind of case will Apple make for the Vision? Better than the 1/2-case for AirPods Max...

The top strap should come with the goggles. Most people will probably need it for better support. Apple probably removed it during the unveiling because it looks cooler. I think it looks better with the top strap on.
I’ll get one too and buy one of those suitcases with wheels for the battery.
 

TimB21

macrumors regular
Nov 14, 2007
124
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You remember when computers first came out? Maybe not, but there were a lot of people back then saying that looking at a screen all the time would be isolating. How about folks commenting on everyone focused on their phone screens, that too.

All I've seen is raves about the new tech and how Apple's worked to make it not isolating.

We move along with the technology.
 
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cardfan

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Mar 23, 2012
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It depends on what job you have, unfortunately, and in which country.

That said, yes, if the Vision Pro can replace any number of monitors of any size, then for people who can afford it, it can actually be a bargain. Especially if said people both need both a lot of screen space and to travel.

Of course, the OS and its apps need to be as useful as MacOS and its programs (or are we calling everything "apps" now? I guess we do).

I've been a PC guy for the past . . . my God . . . 34 years. I'm what you'd call a power user on Windows (which doesn't mean I like Windows, just that I know how to deal with its many quirks, even when that means going back to DOS mode), yet the iPad Pro could have made me switch: I was really impressed by the hardware and might have gone to the Apple side it had been possible to use MacOS on it, in addition to iOS.

(Windows, ironically, can easily switch from tablet mode to PC mode, but the hardware isn't up to the task: nothing on the PC side today equals even the "old" M1 for power efficiency, and the app offering for Windows tablets is laughable compared to the app offering for iOS.)

I'm afraid of a similar situation with the Vision Pro: Even if it can replace a MacBook hardware-wise (which doesn't just necessitate a powerful processor, enough RAM, and a big enough SSD, but also all-day comfort for the eyes, head, and neck), will it be able to replace a MacBook OS-wise?

The iPad Pro still can't.

Right now, Apple expects most people who buy an iPad Pro to also have a MacBook (or a Mac mini, or a Mac Studio). If, likewise, they expect most people who buy the Vision Pro to also have a MacBook, then the Vision Pro is no longer the potential bargain I was mentioning in the second paragraph of this ridiculously long first post.

I think there’s a lot of confusion there. I see it as an iPad on your face. VisionOS can run iPad apps (and probably only if devs allow it). It cannot run macOS.

It can put up screens for which your existing Macs can basically airplay to like atv. I don’t do that much and don’t know how great that may be lag wise.

But essentially if an iPad can’t replace your computer needs then this won’t either. And it’s the wrong way to think of this product. Like iPad it’s a compliment device.

For me the question is can it be the ultimate iPad that i actually use and doesn’t collect dust. Can it actually be the best at certain things as the iPad claims to be (but never really was).

I don’t mind the premium over an iPad Pro to purchase it. But it would have to replace what I use to read books, docs, PDFs, comics, etc. It would have to be able to be used with Macs seamlessly. And then there’s the comfort factor.

But I’ll have to buy and use it and come to that conclusion on my own.
 
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mjs916

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Apr 1, 2018
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Sacramento, CA
The kid’s blank stare when he was asked if he thought Steve Jobs would have worn it.

Reminds me of the exchange in Die Hard:

Special Agent Johnson: “Whoo! Just like Saigon, huh Slick?”

Agent Johnson: “I was in junior high, d¡ckhead.”
Just leaving a timestamp for anyone wanting to find it quickly. Minute 23:55.
 
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bobob

macrumors 68040
Jan 11, 2008
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For me the question is can it be the ultimate iPad...

That is certainly an interesting way of thinking of the Vision Pro:



The Vision Pro turns out to be the bestest most futurific iPad of the late 2020's!!!


...............Is that so bad?














(For reference, the current ultimate iPad might be the 12.9" cellular 2TB M2 iPad Pro with Apple Pencil, Magic Keyboard, Apple Care - -> price: USD$3026 right now in 2023.)
 
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Surf Monkey

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So? Some of us would rather isolate ourselves from the outside world when we work. To this day, no VR headset has been good enough to replace actual monitors, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. (It may have happened already, with the Vision Pro. We'll know better next year.)
Believe it or not, some people don't care much about this. Especially people who, like @topdrawer, work alone.

You’ve failed to rebut anything. This has zero chance of becoming ubiquitous like iPhone. You may like being isolated but that doesn’t mean everyone does. And we have no idea yet whether a virtual monitor can actually replace a real one for things like mission critical prepress (for example.)

I get the enthusiasm but some of you are applying far more hopefulness than rationality around it.
 

Surf Monkey

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how many people are with you right now as you type on this board? i work alone all day long, a visor is not gonna make a difference in isolation.

I’ve been an independent contract graphic designer for a couple decades. Remote work is nothing new to me. My comments stand. The issue here is whether AVP can replace iPhone as Apple’s primary business. Whether or not YOU happen to live an isolated life and don’t mind the idea of living behind a screen instead of in the real world is a completely irrelevant anecdote.
 

topdrawer

macrumors 65816
Oct 1, 2012
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I’ve been an independent contract graphic designer for a couple decades. Remote work is nothing new to me. My comments stand. The issue here is whether AVP can replace iPhone as Apple’s primary business. Whether or not YOU happen to live an isolated life and don’t mind the idea of living behind a screen instead of in the real world is a completely irrelevant anecdote.


That specifically no. But isolation has nothing to do with it. This is more inline as a successor to laptops not phones.
 
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