The New 14"Razer Blade or MacBook Pro Retina 15"?

[Gwendolini]

After Effects does not take advantage of the GPU yet, except with the 3D Raytracing module. Everything else is mainly CPU orientated when looking at iStat Menus and AE projects with lots of layers.
As for Photoshop, there are benchmarks, as there are for AE, maybe look for benchmarks that have been done on the GTX970M and that AMD GPU and then decide.

 

[cbautis2]

Because it's marketed as a gaming laptop it can't be used for other tasks? That's failed logic. Hell a lot of Americans buy pickups and use them as daily run arounds.

It's not failed logic. It just isn't efficient in doing 3d productivity work compared to an AMD card. NVIDIA drivers is all about directX optimization and their CUDA is just a joke since it barely accelerates the render and it far less supports deeper layers unlike OpenCL and OpenGL which supports full 3D rendering and AMD drivers are optimized for those purposes.

When doing a productivity 3D work, a RMBP will emphatically smoke that POS razer blade in performance.

 

[kokhoong0624]

My info (and memory) might be outdated(so don't quote me on that), but I believe Adobe apps use CUDA instead of OpenCL, which means the AMD graphics card in the MBP will not be of much help to you.

Thanks for sharing this! I don't know what is CUDA or OpenCL.. I'll check them out later! So do you mean that Nvdias are better for Adobe apps? Sorry for the stupid question, I'm not familiar with technical details.

The AMD GPU in the MacBook Pro is more than adequate to do professional work like that. The Blade is designed as a Windows gaming laptop.

Great to know that! Do you use the Adobe Apps too? I don't know why but I managed to run photoshop in bootcamp with a faster loading speed on my old MBP.

If I wasn't an "avid gamer", I'd really think twice before spending almost $3k on a gaming laptop.

Yes that's why I'm asking here.. before investing on one! If I'm getting the Razer I'll get it with student pricing too! Thanks for the advice!

Because it's marketed as a gaming laptop it can't be used for other tasks? That's failed logic. Hell a lot of Americans buy pickups and use them as daily run arounds.

^YES hahaha and I actually never considered a gaming/windows laptop but the razer design and form factor is quite identical to a MacBook Pro! And the graphic card is definitely a plus!

While not ideal, if you upgrade to 8GB, you'll have 512MB available to your integrated graphics. Use Gfxcardstatus to lock into integrated only and fire up PS. Granted, I have no idea what render times will be like, but it should at least give you the ability to access it.

if it is the HD3000, on a 15-inch notebook, it may be capped at 384MB

8 GB of RAM, 512 MB allocated. Exception: 384 MB is allocated on 15-inch and 17-inch systems

But there is a thread on MacRumors for hacking the ram allocation, and bumping that to 512 or 1024MB.

Which should get the needed apps running again.

HEY THANKS GUYS! I never knew that! Especially Sun Baked link. I never knew that the integrated graphic cards have dedicated rAM for them too. I checked the website and my vRAM allocated is only 384MB.. which is still insufficient for that. I'll find that thread later to see if it helps!

 

[inhalexhale1]

Great to know that! Do you use the Adobe Apps too? I don't know why but I managed to run photoshop in bootcamp with a faster loading speed on my old MBP.


Yes that's why I'm asking here.. before investing on one! If I'm getting the Razer I'll get it with student pricing too! Thanks for the advice!

I've only used photoshop on OSX. So I can't comment on Windows performance. I can't imagine it's faster, or at least noticeably faster.

Any high end laptop will run professional apps. With the Razer Blade, your paying for something that is meant for people serious about mobile gaming. Whether that's you or not, is totally your call.

 

[0x100]

If you're not a gamer then why would you put $2.5k towards a machine built for gaming?

Gaming laptops are great for produktivity tasks. A lot of pros buy Msi s big gaming laptops because they perform much better than any macbook.

 

[0x100]

I'm not impressed. It's quite expensive for what it is

It really is hard for manufacturers to match apples specs. Forget the build quality and battery

Build quality comparison with razer blade and macbook pro is interesting since the blade is basically an macbook case painted black.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Build quality comparison with razer blade and macbook pro is interesting since the blade is basically an macbook case painted black.

I thought that was interesting as well. And what will be the resell value of the Razer compared to the MacBook Pro, let's say a couple of years from now? I know that is not important consideration for some people. I have been able to resale my Mac computers for a good price even after 5 years.

 

[Sun Baked]

HEY THANKS GUYS! I never knew that! Especially Sun Baked link. I never knew that the integrated graphic cards have dedicated rAM for them too. I checked the website and my vRAM allocated is only 384MB.. which is still insufficient for that. I'll find that thread later to see if it helps!

How to Increase the vRAM for HD3000

Should help out for the current machine.

And give you comfort that if you buy a MacBook Pro, that you will be able to get around the Photoshop min VRAM issue no matter how long you own the next machine. Sort of expect the hack to be around for the Iris Pro -- which can use a lot of RAM if needed.

 

[inhalexhale1]

Build quality comparison with razer blade and macbook pro is interesting since the blade is basically an macbook case painted black.

One thing about that case. I saw a video that showed it's abrasive, and left nasty looking marks when touched. Start at 1:48.

A lot of reviews say the same thing, the case is a fingerprint magnet.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Basically AMD is better optimsed for productivity apps and the NVIDIA is better optimised for gaming. They will perform around the same for your rendering etc but the blade will smoke the pro in gaming, however the battery life in the mac will be the winner here if gaming is only casual.

 

[kokhoong0624]

After Effects does not take advantage of the GPU yet, except with the 3D Raytracing module. Everything else is mainly CPU orientated when looking at iStat Menus and AE projects with lots of layers.
As for Photoshop, there are benchmarks, as there are for AE, maybe look for benchmarks that have been done on the GTX970M and that AMD GPU and then decide.

Thank you for your advices! I just googled and most benchmarks I found are gaming performances. Do you have any idea where I could take a look at this benchmark?

It's not failed logic. It just isn't efficient in doing 3d productivity work compared to an AMD card. NVIDIA drivers is all about directX optimization and their CUDA is just a joke since it barely accelerates the render and it far less supports deeper layers unlike OpenCL and OpenGL which supports full 3D rendering and AMD drivers are optimized for those purposes.

When doing a productivity 3D work, a RMBP will emphatically smoke that POS razer blade in performance.

Thanks for letting me know that! ..I never knew that. However, there is something I'm not sure of. Last year the MBP uses an NVdia graphics card and this year they switched to an AMD (of the relative same range )and according to the cinebench benchmarks and tests.. there are only increase by 15%.. Why is it so? Is there a very big gap between the two kinds of graphic cards in software performance?

Gaming laptops are great for produktivity tasks. A lot of pros buy Msi s big gaming laptops because they perform much better than any macbook.

Build quality comparison with razer blade and macbook pro is interesting since the blade is basically an macbook case painted black.

^ That's true.. haha that's why I put them into consideration.

I thought that was interesting as well. And what will be the resell value of the Razer compared to the MacBook Pro, let's say a couple of years from now? I know that is not important consideration for some people. I have been able to resale my Mac computers for a good price even after 5 years.

I don't plan on selling my laptops haha and yeah the MBP will be significantly higher than the razer blade for resale value. Thanks for the advice tho!

How to Increase the vRAM for HD3000

Should help out for the current machine.

And give you comfort that if you buy a MacBook Pro, that you will be able to get around the Photoshop min VRAM issue no matter how long you own the next machine. Sort of expect the hack to be around for the Iris Pro -- which can use a lot of RAM if needed.

Oh it's great to know that!! AND THANKS AGAIN FOR THE LINK!! I'll try doing that to my machine later.

Basically AMD is better optimsed for productivity apps and the NVIDIA is better optimised for gaming. They will perform around the same for your rendering etc but the blade will smoke the pro in gaming, however the battery life in the mac will be the winner here if gaming is only casual.

Oh okay I see.. Yeah Gwendolini told me that too. Sorry for asking this stupid question.. But can you tell me more about why AMD are better optimised for producitivity apps ... and apple used an Nvdia for the 2014 MBP too..
Thanks for your advice!

 

[cbautis2]

"Thanks for letting me know that! ..I never knew that. However, there is something I'm not sure of. Last year the MBP uses an NVdia graphics card and this year they switched to an AMD (of the relative same range )and according to the cinebench benchmarks and tests.. there are only increase by 15%.. Why is it so? Is there a very big gap between the two kinds of graphic cards in software performance?"

Cinebench uses a benchmark that caters more on the raw compute power of the card rather than driver optimizations for a specific tasks (gaming or 3D cad, etc). That's why 370X is only 15% faster, and to be honest, it's just on par with a 940M in raw GPU performance.

To assess the advantage of the AMD (despite being very weak in raw power these days), you need to focus on the driver optimization (e.g. all Nvidia Quadro and AMD FirePro)

Let's compare the current Razer Blade with 970M and AMD 370X on the rMBP in terms of productivity 3D work:

For CUDA optimized applications, due to Maxwell just flat out outperforming the 370X in raw compute power,

We have the 3D application called Autodesk Maya for this benchmark:

Generally, driver optimization is the key here based on the inconsistencies in scores relative to raw performance, but as you can see 970M is only 37% faster despite being several times faster in raw compute power than 370X on an assumed good driver version.

However, when it comes to 3D modeling that optimizes OpenCL and OpenGL, 370X just destroys the 970M and 980M and it's on par with Nvidia's Quadro Graphics line that is meant for 3D cad and 3D modeling, etc.

It's really your take. If you do more gaming, video editing with CUDA then go for 970M, but if you are a mechanical/electrical engineer needing Solidworks or similar 3D cad software, AMD 370X is the choice.

 

[xmichaelp]

My info (and memory) might be outdated(so don't quote me on that), but I believe Adobe apps use CUDA instead of OpenCL, which means the AMD graphics card in the MBP will not be of much help to you.

AMD works just fine with adobe.

 

[D.T.]

I spent some time with a couple of Blades when we were in SF pitching some VR tech - one of our potential tech partners works closely with Razor, and had a ton of their gear.

Before I talk about the hardware: do you want to run OSX (as your primary OS) or Windows? I prefer OSX, like the Unix roots, involved in iOS development, and when I have the need for Windows (for dev work), then a VM gives me exactly what I need, in an easy to manage mechanism.

I'd also add, that in terms of companies, it's likely you'll have a better support channel with Apple via their storefronts. I love the idea of being warrantied for 3 years and my interface being a store that's 30 minutes away. No shipping, no dealing indirectly through a distributor, etc.

So the hardware is pretty awesome I'm a nut for good design, and it's as slick of a design as I've seen on a gaming/high performance Windows notebook (Sony notebooks I always thought were beautifully designed).

It's fast, the display is very nice - the touch option didn't make any difference as that's not how I'd use it. For our VR demos, I actually prefered the native 1080p display, the super high res had some odd clipping (possibly from scaling?), but the framerate from the 970 was excellent as you'd expect (though we were surrounded by desktop, multi-GPU beasts, so it was probably the slowest windows machine in the room )

At one point I was driving the director UI and had it on my lap and the fans surged indicating it was getting warm - I think the design of the fans/vents create a real airflow issue if you're using it in your lap (vs. the MBP design with the rear slotted fan outlet).

The keyboard was very good (backlit, would prefer a more neutral color, some of the other options like Alienware let you set different backlight colors). As usual, the trackpad was notably worse than the MBPs (I haven't used a force touch model yet...) All the system IO was incredibly quick as you'd expect from a modern SSD based setup.

Here's the bottom line: with the Razor, you're spending a fair amount on the design/form factor. There are cheaper or faster options from Asus, MSI, etc., so it really depends on how much "value" you assign to the aesthetics. I don't mind admitting, I assign a good bit, and if I were buying a Windows notebook that needed high CPU and GPU performance, this would be the machine (it almost was!) With Apple, there's only one [legit] source, so you get (and are paying for) the better design whether you want it or not.

 

[kokhoong0624]

"Thanks for letting me know that! ..I never knew that. However, there is something I'm not sure of. Last year the MBP uses an NVdia graphics card and this year they switched to an AMD (of the relative same range )and according to the cinebench benchmarks and tests.. there are only increase by 15%.. Why is it so? Is there a very big gap between the two kinds of graphic cards in software performance?"

Cinebench uses a benchmark that caters more on the raw compute power of the card rather than driver optimizations for a specific tasks (gaming or 3D cad, etc). That's why 370X is only 15% faster, and to be honest, it's just on par with a 940M in raw GPU performance.

To assess the advantage of the AMD (despite being very weak in raw power these days), you need to focus on the driver optimization (e.g. all Nvidia Quadro and AMD FirePro)

Let's compare the current Razer Blade with 970M and AMD 370X on the rMBP in terms of productivity 3D work:

For CUDA optimized applications, due to Maxwell just flat out outperforming the 370X in raw compute power,

We have the 3D application called Autodesk Maya for this benchmark:
View attachment 578566

Generally, driver optimization is the key here based on the inconsistencies in scores relative to raw performance, but as you can see 970M is only 37% faster despite being several times faster in raw compute power than 370X on an assumed good driver version.

However, when it comes to 3D modeling that optimizes OpenCL and OpenGL, 370X just destroys the 970M and 980M and it's on par with Nvidia's Quadro Graphics line that is meant for 3D cad and 3D modeling, etc.

View attachment 578567

It's really your take. If you do more gaming, video editing with CUDA then go for 970M, but if you are a mechanical/electrical engineer needing Solidworks or similar 3D cad software, AMD 370X is the choice.

I saw this benchmark at notebookcheck too but I don't understand why are there anomalies.. Thank you so much for taking your time to explain this to me! I never really understand the differences between the two until you explained!! However, I don't use Autodesks Softwares.. Crossing my fingers and waiting for the Skylake MBPs now..

I spent some time with a couple of Blades when we were in SF pitching some VR tech - one of our potential tech partners works closely with Razor, and had a ton of their gear.

Before I talk about the hardware: do you want to run OSX (as your primary OS) or Windows? I prefer OSX, like the Unix roots, involved in iOS development, and when I have the need for Windows (for dev work), then a VM gives me exactly what I need, in an easy to manage mechanism.

I'd also add, that in terms of companies, it's likely you'll have a better support channel with Apple via their storefronts. I love the idea of being warrantied for 3 years and my interface being a store that's 30 minutes away. No shipping, no dealing indirectly through a distributor, etc.

So the hardware is pretty awesome I'm a nut for good design, and it's as slick of a design as I've seen on a gaming/high performance Windows notebook (Sony notebooks I always thought were beautifully designed).

It's fast, the display is very nice - the touch option didn't make any difference as that's not how I'd use it. For our VR demos, I actually prefered the native 1080p display, the super high res had some odd clipping (possibly from scaling?), but the framerate from the 970 was excellent as you'd expect (though we were surrounded by desktop, multi-GPU beasts, so it was probably the slowest windows machine in the room )

At one point I was driving the director UI and had it on my lap and the fans surged indicating it was getting warm - I think the design of the fans/vents create a real airflow issue if you're using it in your lap (vs. the MBP design with the rear slotted fan outlet).

The keyboard was very good (backlit, would prefer a more neutral color, some of the other options like Alienware let you set different backlight colors). As usual, the trackpad was notably worse than the MBPs (I haven't used a force touch model yet...) All the system IO was incredibly quick as you'd expect from a modern SSD based setup.

Here's the bottom line: with the Razor, you're spending a fair amount on the design/form factor. There are cheaper or faster options from Asus, MSI, etc., so it really depends on how much "value" you assign to the aesthetics. I don't mind admitting, I assign a good bit, and if I were buying a Windows notebook that needed high CPU and GPU performance, this would be the machine (it almost was!) With Apple, there's only one [legit] source, so you get (and are paying for) the better design whether you want it or not.

You're so lucky to be able to use one! (there's no shops here that display a Razer at all and I never seen a real one) Thanks for your advices! How are the trackpads worse tho? ._. I mean is it that bad because the reviewers said that they are pretty good too.. Yes and it would be great if the keyboard backlight could use a more neutral tone (it looks scary at night).

 

[cbautis2]

There's always that unparalleled harmony between your fingers and the trackpad feeling and pointer accuracy that you only get on a Mac with OS X.

Anyways. Apple's vision focuses on all areas (hardware quality and very balanced specs to achieve excellent battery life) while PCs focuses on one or two spec (GPU and RAM) while having the rest of the rest of the specs be just mediocre (non-crystalwell CPUs, glitchy OS/drivers/apps, poor hardware and battery , slower ssds, etc.)

 

[D.T.]

You're so lucky to be able to use one! (there's no shops here that display a Razer at all and I never seen a real one) Thanks for your advices! How are the trackpads worse tho? ._. I mean is it that bad because the reviewers said that they are pretty good too.. Yes and it would be great if the keyboard backlight could use a more neutral tone (it looks scary at night).

I wasn't even aware of the Blade machines until I was researching the company we were meeting with, that took me on a roundabout path to the Razor product page, and their notebooks. At the time, I saw NewEgg had open box machines and we were within 30 minutes of their warehouse in SF, I almost went and bought one.

I was thinking of how to respond about the trackpad, but I think the quote below is right on:

There's always that unparalleled harmony between your fingers and the trackpad feeling and pointer accuracy that you only get on a Mac with OS X.

Yeah, there's just a refinement present that's a combination of the hardware + OS that I haven't seen matched on another [non-Apple] machine.

 

[esaelias]

if macbook had like a 970m it would beat razer hands down

 

[Harthag]

if macbook had like a 970m it would beat razer hands down

Huh? In what world does a gtx 970m beat a gtx 1060? Razer just this week refreshed the CPU in the Blade to the 7700HQ. And dropped the price by $100 from the late-2016 6700HQ models. When Apple refreshes to Kaby Lake I'm sure they will find a reason to increase the price.

 

[cbautis2]

if macbook had like a 970m it would beat razer hands down

Necrothread being revived!

 

[esaelias]

Huh? In what world does a gtx 970m beat a gtx 1060? Razer just this week refreshed the CPU in the Blade to the 7700HQ. And dropped the price by $100 from the late-2016 6700HQ models. When Apple refreshes to Kaby Lake I'm sure they will find a reason to increase the price.

im not saying it is better than 1060 I'm saying by EVEN just having a 970m the MacBook OVERALL beat the cheap wannabe razor
[doublepost=1487386333][/doublepost]

Necrothread being revived!

what you mean

 

[cbautis2]

^ necro posting

 

[SparkFlash]

MBP all the way based on your original post. Things are built to focus on use and your use aligns with this more than the other.