The new FILES APP

maclab

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 31, 2009
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The new files app is a big deal for productivity, been able to access all your files from one location, but the question is what will be end up been able to do with these files from this single integrated access point?

We are still in early stages of beta, and apps have not been updated to fully support the new files app, but is Microsoft going to play ball and is apple going to play ball and allow us to open and save documents directly to and from the files app....we can only hope so because otherwise the hooops will contrinue.

opening a file from the files app:



To then having to make a new save to edit the file




Hopefully this will all end soon after some further updates, but this will only happen if both parties start putting us first.
 

Feenician

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Jun 13, 2016
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Nobody can release updated clients for Files until iOS 11 is officially released. Sometimes some updates slip the net a day or two before. I would expect all the big players to integrate. Dropbox have said they will. Box was shown at WWDC. For others not to would put them at a competitive disadvantage on iOS.

As for whether Apple will play ball, they already have. It’s on, for example, Microsoft to remove their own save dialogues in Office and use Files instead.
 

Superhai

macrumors 6502
Apr 21, 2010
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Dropbox have said they will.
Dropbox and at least Amazon Drive are implemented, but I guess it is done purely from Apple side. Opening currently is done from existing APIs. I think it is the app that manipulate the files that op is referring to and I look forward to see how it will be implemented by the different vendors.
 

Feenician

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Jun 13, 2016
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Dropbox and at least Amazon Drive are implemented, but I guess it is done purely from Apple side. Opening currently is done from existing APIs. I think it is the app that manipulate the files that op is referring to and I look forward to see how it will be implemented by the different vendors.
As I understand it, there’s an existing storage API that is available in iOS 10. Apps that implement that properly show up the way they do now - essentially as share sheet extensions. In iOS 11 there are a further set of APIs that allow 3rd party providers to drop in seamlessly to Files. They will look and feel much like the iCloud and Local iPad/iPhone parts of the files App does now.

I don’t have the links handy but there were two developer-centric but interesting videos at WWDC that show developers how to intergrate this stuff well. You don’t need a dev account or anything to view them.
 
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maclab

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 31, 2009
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Apple needs to make it mandatory that the new file system is the default for all apps related to productivity and it needs to be fully integrated into those apps otherwise its going to be very confusing for users and also we are going keep having the same problems and the iPad can never be seen as a possible laptop replacement for non power users.
 

Feenician

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Jun 13, 2016
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Apple needs to make it mandatory that the new file system is the default for all apps related to productivity and it needs to be fully integrated into those apps otherwise its going to be very confusing for users and also we are going keep having the same problems and the iPad can never be seen as a possible laptop replacement for non power users.
It would be nice but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Let's say they do it: -
They deprecate the previous storage API and start rejecting apps that don't implement the new ones. Some devs will walk away and the usual internet echo chamber will decry Apple's walled garden (see: the wailing and gnashing of teeth over discontinuing 32 bit support).

Let's say they don't: -
Some devs will not integrate properly, keeping their own load/save infra or using the prior API. Users will complain that "Files doesn't work with X. IOS is a toy" yadda yadda

The irony of this is that most people's number one complaint was the copying and duplication of files between apps but ios 10 already resolved that (albeit somewhat clumsily) by offering a type of share sheet that avoided it. Many devs ignored it and many users (actually most, judging by the Neverending complaints about it) didn't understand it.
 

maclab

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 31, 2009
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I get what your saying but Apple needs to do what ever it takes to work it out and offer extra support to the devs who are not capable to implement it correctly. There will be a painful period but for the future of the iPad it needs to be extinguished now, so the future can be solid for the future of productivity on the iPad.

Currently a functional file system is the iPads biggest problem, and Apple needs to do its thing and resolve it.
 

strategicthinke

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Feb 6, 2014
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Rio de Janeiro
Sorry for my ignorance. But how's is the share sheet potentially avoid duplication of files, and how can the new files API avoid the duplication of files while keeping Apple's app sandbozing?

I'm really curious and excited to heart that...

It would be nice but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Let's say they do it: -
They deprecate the previous storage API and start rejecting apps that don't implement the new ones. Some devs will walk away and the usual internet echo chamber will decry Apple's walled garden (see: the wailing and gnashing of teeth over discontinuing 32 bit support).

Let's say they don't: -
Some devs will not integrate properly, keeping their own load/save infra or using the prior API. Users will complain that "Files doesn't work with X. IOS is a toy" yadda yadda

The irony of this is that most people's number one complaint was the copying and duplication of files between apps but ios 10 already resolved that (albeit somewhat clumsily) by offering a type of share sheet that avoided it. Many devs ignored it and many users (actually most, judging by the Neverending complaints about it) didn't understand it.
 

stulaw11

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Jan 25, 2012
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Nobody can release updated clients for Files until iOS 11 is officially released. Sometimes some updates slip the net a day or two before. I would expect all the big players to integrate. Dropbox have said they will. Box was shown at WWDC. For others not to would put them at a competitive disadvantage on iOS.

As for whether Apple will play ball, they already have. It’s on, for example, Microsoft to remove their own save dialogues in Office and use Files instead.
This. It was like in iOS10 blaming Apple because the call blocking app extensions didnt work in the beta.

That's on 3rd party apps to update using the new APIs, and they cannot do so via their developer agreement until the OS officially lunches in the fall.

There's simply nothing MS, Dropbox, etc can do right now. And judging any implementations as being final now is way too premature.
 
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Mayanja

macrumors regular
Jun 30, 2017
220
190
Sorry for my ignorance. But how's is the share sheet potentially avoid duplication of files, and how can the new files API avoid the duplication of files while keeping Apple's app sandbozing?

I'm really curious and excited to heart that...
Because APIs to open files that are hosted in another app already exist, but have only be marginally implemented. Office doesn’t implement it. When you use the share sheet on a DOCX document from the iCloud adrive app it shows Copy to Word. However, if Office supported it it would have said Open in Word - and that action would have used a reference to the original file on iCloud Drive, rather than a copy.
 

Krevnik

macrumors 68040
Sep 8, 2003
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Because APIs to open files that are hosted in another app already exist, but have only be marginally implemented. Office doesn’t implement it. When you use the share sheet on a DOCX document from the iCloud adrive app it shows Copy to Word. However, if Office supported it it would have said Open in Word - and that action would have used a reference to the original file on iCloud Drive, rather than a copy.
Yup. File providers in iOS 8-10 can provide in-place access to files they provide. Apps can request copies or in-place access. Accessing the files in-place is a bit more complicated than grabbing a copy, so that’s one reason why apps just grab copies using the document picker.
 
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Feenician

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
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Sorry for my ignorance. But how's is the share sheet potentially avoid duplication of files, and how can the new files API avoid the duplication of files while keeping Apple's app sandbozing?

I'm really curious and excited to heart that...
I wasn’t notified of your reply for some reason. The three posts above this nailed it though. This was a solved problem for some time but developer laziness, people repeating old limitations as truth and, to be fair, the not-quite-obvious-to-everyone distinction between “Copy to” and “Open in” share sheets (the difference between the words is obvious enough but I think people didn’t realise that it was more than just a difference in the text label) means we’re still hearing something that didn’t need to be a problem for some time.
 

Mayanja

macrumors regular
Jun 30, 2017
220
190
I wasn’t notified of your reply for some reason. The three posts above this nailed it though. This was a solved problem for some time but developer laziness, people repeating old limitations as truth and, to be fair, the not-quite-obvious-to-everyone distinction between “Copy to” and “Open in” share sheets (the difference between the words is obvious enough but I think people didn’t realise that it was more than just a difference in the text label) means we’re still hearing something that didn’t need to be a problem for some time.
Yes, it has been clumsy from the getgo, as only iCloud Drive provided this in-place editing of the major file provider apps. Many file providers implemented worksrounds e.g. Box which allows you to edit Office documents directly, but not using any iOS APIs.

DropBox never supported in-place editing in the first place, only copying, which is why Dropbox sometimes doesn’t show up with other file providers.

I really hope all these workarounds and partial implementions will end with the new Files app as developers hopefully agre
that it’s the most sustainable way on iOS.
 
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DeepIn2U

macrumors 604
May 30, 2002
7,031
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Nobody can release updated clients for Files until iOS 11 is officially released. Sometimes some updates slip the net a day or two before. I would expect all the big players to integrate. Dropbox have said they will. Box was shown at WWDC. For others not to would put them at a competitive disadvantage on iOS.

As for whether Apple will play ball, they already have. It’s on, for example, Microsoft to remove their own save dialogues in Office and use Files instead.
I pray the day does NOT come when application vendors don't care about the competitive disadvantages on iOS thinking their already satisfied with the amount of Android users they have. We've seen a LOT of mobile OS cave and die from packing bit-cool.

As I understand it, there’s an existing storage API that is available in iOS 10. Apps that implement that properly show up the way they do now - essentially as share sheet extensions. In iOS 11 there are a further set of APIs that allow 3rd party providers to drop in seamlessly to Files. They will look and feel much like the iCloud and Local iPad/iPhone parts of the files App does now.

I don’t have the links handy but there were two developer-centric but interesting videos at WWDC that show developers how to intergrate this stuff well. You don’t need a dev account or anything to view them.
I really loathe the Share Sheet!
Too many restrictions like 6 documents at a time to upload anywhere - is this been abolished in Files?? Please I hope so, at least over Wi-Fi.

Also some documents show some apps while other types do not. Moreover it seems that Uploading a picture from iOS10 to Instagram says it's completed (carrier or WiFi) and the app freezes no buttons to select going to home and back doesn't resolve I have to kill pphotos in iOS.
[doublepost=1503105611][/doublepost]Furthermore does Files app allow us to rename documents in Photos or in iWork document storage silos?
 

maclab

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 31, 2009
88
14
waiting for you just waiting lmao.....obviously microsoft needs more time
 
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