The new iMac is a lot noisier!

[propower]

If Apple had offered the i7-7700 (65W) instead of the i5-7600K with the Radeon Pro 580, the configuration would be a lot more popular. There are a lot of creative professionals who would love to have the best GPU available with a cooler i7 like the 7700.

I'm not sure why Apple decided to offer the i7-7700 for the 21.5 inch but not for the 27 inch.

Totally agree that 7700 would have been the one to do - I would have gotten that one almost for sure!

The reason they went 7700K was (IMO) to beat the 2015 imac i7 in Benchmarks.

 

[Moriarty]

Well, as previously posted, I'm having second thoughts. I'm trying to decide whether or not I want perfect silence or 30%+ more video conversion speed.

One thing I noticed though while playing around in the store is that applications like Photos are quite responsive even on the MacBook Pros. The key differentiator in most actions is not the CPU, but in fact the storage. The SSDs were very fast, but platter drives were noticeably slower. This may partially be due to the fact that the Apple Store Fusion drives are really just platter drives without the Fusion part in many instances, but in this case it would matter, because if you have several hundred GB of photos, you won't be on the SSD part of the Fusion drive anyway. You'll be getting your data off the platter drive, which is the limiting factor.

OTOH, transcoding on the 7700K makes for fan noise. I don't do this often, but if I have to do it while sitting at the desk, it could get annoying. And if don't do this often, perhaps having the slower machine isn't such a bad thing, as long as everything else is the same. I'd lean toward the 7600 though, not the 7500, unless someone tells me the 7600 ramps up the fan after 10 minutes of video encoding (probably not if the 7500 doesn't). And if it does ramp up on the 7600, I suppose I could just turn off Turbo Boost, to make it even slower than a 7500. 😉

The 7600K with Handbrake (pulling ~ 64 W) is stable at about 92 degrees, fan at no more than 1300 rpm, 22 degrees ambient. It's silent, but it's right on the threshold. Only with unrealistic loads (e.g. Prime95), or simultaneous GPU load, is it possible to get the fan to ramp up.

I might have gone for the i7-7700 if it was offered, but even that would be a tough sell because most of my work does not benefit much from hyperthreading. The only time I've heard the fan on this machine is while playing games. Even then, the fan is nowhere near max in intense games like Battlefield 1.

Any lesser i5 should have even better thermals, but even the top-end i5 is much quieter than the i7.

 

[EugW]

The 7600K with Handbrake (pulling ~ 64 W) is stable at about 92 degrees, fan at no more than 1300 rpm, 22 degrees ambient. It's silent, but it's right on the threshold. Only with unrealistic loads (e.g. Prime95), or simultaneous GPU load, is it possible to get the fan to ramp up.

I might have gone for the i7-7700 if it was offered, but even that would be a tough sell because most of my work does not benefit much from hyperthreading. The only time I've heard the fan on this machine is while playing games. Even then, the fan is nowhere near max in intense games like Battlefield 1.

Any lesser i5 should have even better thermals, but even the top-end i5 is much quieter than the i7.

That’s great info thx. Thing is though, the 7600 and 7600K are fairly close in performance. The main difference here is the GPU.

Leaning toward returning the 7700K and buying the 7600, not the 7700K. Realistically I figure I wouldn’t really use the 580 except for very occasional just for kicks stuff (not gaming), and that likely adds some heat.

According to this page, the 575 and 570 both have a 120 Watt TDP, with the 580 at 150.

https://www.techwalls.com/amd-radeon-pro-570-575-580-comparison/

The 570 and 575 are 1 GHz and 1.1 GHz respectively, but the 580 is 1.257 GHz. (Not sure if that is correct. They got some of the other specs wrong.)

According to PC benchmarks though, 580 does idle relatively cool though.

 

[Falcon80]

That’s great info thx. Thing is though, the 7600 and 7600K are fairly close in performance. The main difference here is the GPU.

Leaning toward returning the 7700K and buying the 7600, not the 7700K. Realistically I figure I wouldn’t really use the 580 except for very occasional just for kicks stuff (not gaming), and that likely adds some heat.

According to this page, the 575 and 570 both have a 120 Watt TDP, with the 580 at 150.

https://www.techwalls.com/amd-radeon-pro-570-575-580-comparison/

The 570 and 575 are 1 GHz and 1.1 GHz respectively, but the 580 is 1.257 GHz.

According to PC benchmarks though, 580 does idle relatively cool though.

Do you plan to get one first and do a comparison?

 

[EugW]

Do you plan to get one first and do a comparison?

Don’t have time. I need to return the 7700K by July 4.

 

[Moriarty]

That’s great info thx. Thing is though, the 7600 and 7600K are fairly close in performance. The main difference here is the GPU.

Leaning toward returning the 7700K and buying the 7600.

Yeah the mid-tier 7600 may be a good compromise. My workloads almost never 100% saturate all 4 CPU cores, but if you often fully load the CPU for extended periods of time then a slightly cooler CPU might be nice.

With respect to the GPU, I'm not sure how much the extra VRAM of the 580 helps in running the UI smoothly, but it wouldn't hurt. These GPUs are quite cool and efficient, so unless you're really stressing the GPU, don't worry about the effect of the faster GPU on the thermals.

 

[EugW]

I now have my 2017 Mac specific 16F2073 build of 10.12.5 on a platter drive, booting my 2010 iMac via a USB SATA dock. The backup to the internal HD on that computer has begun. 🙂

The fact that the 2017 did not like that dock is a blessing in disguise. I had to buy a new SATA dock so now each of my two iMacs has its own personal SATA dock. 😉 Convenient.

BTW, booting up the 2010 via USB 2 on a platter drive really is painful. And while the screen looked fine last week, now it looks horrible... at least in comparison to the 5K next to it. 😛

 

[Falcon80]

Don’t have time. I need to return the 7700K by July 4.

Icic.. So I guess you need to make a decision very soon.

 

[EugW]

Interesting. Apparently transcoding of HEVC & h.264 video in Photos for video export is likely in hardware in High Sierra.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...port-hardware-encoded-or-by-software.2053440/

Currently this is all done in software, including with h.264.

This pushes the 4.2 GHz iMac, and is one of the things that really ramps up the fan. However, if it's hardware transcoded then no problem. With hardware transcoding, we don't have to worry about the 7700K's fan. But then again, if it's hardware transcoding, it'd likely be fast on the 7500 and 7600 too.

 

[sloth00]

The imac series has one cooling system. The i5 3.4 at 100% CPU is 66degC in the test I did. Neither the smidge faster 3.5 or the 575 look at all worth it for me. 3% points at best. In my perpetual flip flop I have put the i7 aside (return too Apple this week) and will use only the i5 base till Sunday (assuming all goes well). Although I am still mostly a real time audio guy my sessions are just not very big and I don't see that changing for the next year. If the i5/3.4/512G SSD will work it will save me $1K (almost 1/3 of the cost). If a year from now the machine is holding me back I will have two more worthy possibilities to choose from - iMac Pro and Mac Pro. Both will feature much better cooling systems for higher core CPUs. Assuming i5 does well I will order the BTO 512SSD version (though I surprisingly don't hate the Fusion performance)... LOL

PS (IMO) - these CPUs are not built to run at 100degC they just can run there. Regardless - absolute temperature is not the failure mechanism I would worry about with these. Thermal cycling is the big bad boy (and a key to all MilSpec and Space grade testing - my old line of work). The CPU is attached to solder pads to get signals in and out as well as to the heatsink path. These joints always have a temperature coeffient mismatch that causes mechanical stress as temperature goes up and down. The large the Delta T, the larger the stress. Worse stress if this happens quickly too. The though of this happening 100s of times every day I use the computer is just more than this engineer can bear 🙂... Hence I think it is either the i5 7500 for me or I will keep my Mac Pro 2013 going (but it would be much better to sell long before the new one comes out!).

So to resume: are we basically saying here the new i7-7700k iMac is a potentially faulty machine ?

P.s.
I' also a real time audio guy (DAW music production), and I just ordered the 27' i7 580

 

[EugW]

So to resume: are we basically saying here the new i7-7700k iMac is a potentially faulty machine ?

P.s.
I' also a real time audio guy (DAW music production), and I just ordered the 27' i7 580

Nah. It will be fine. I have a 2010 i7 with a 95 W TDP and it's been fine. No issues, except increased fan noise when pushed to the limit, as expected.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

I'm still torn here. I have a late 2014 i7 4.0 Ghz, and the fan comes on all the time (to the point where I've wondered if something is wrong)... even with normal use of productivity apps, but especially with Screenflow and GarageBand recording, which I do on a daily basis.

I would love to upgrade to an iMac that is silent with normal use, and even with these video/audio recording apps. The only other processor-intensive thing that I do is occasional editing of photos in Lightroom or Photoshop. I don't do any video editing or gaming and don't plan to start.

Options I'm considering:

• Replace with 7700k and hope it's quieter
• Replace with 7600 or 7600k, which I'm certain would be quieter
• Wait for more info on the iMac Pro (but seems like this might be overkill)
• Wait for Coffee Lake iMacs in 2018

I typically upgrade every 3 years or so, both with my iMac and Macbook Pro. I don't love the idea of buying an iMac now and upgrading in a year to Coffee Lake, for example. Whatever I buy I'd like to last at least 3 years.

What do you think, for my situation?

 

[EugW]

I'm still torn here. I have a late 2014 i7 4.0 Ghz, and the fan comes on all the time (to the point where I've wondered if something is wrong)... even with normal use of productivity apps, but especially with Screenflow and GarageBand recording, which I do on a daily basis.

I would love to upgrade to an iMac that is silent with normal use, and even with these video/audio recording apps. The only other processor-intensive thing that I do is occasional editing of photos in Lightroom or Photoshop. I don't do any video editing or gaming and don't plan to start.

Options I'm considering:

• Replace with 7700k and hope it's quieter
• Replace with 7600 or 7600k, which I'm certain would be quieter
• Wait for more info on the iMac Pro (but seems like this might be overkill)
• Wait for Coffee Lake iMacs in 2018

I typically upgrade every 3 years or so, both with my iMac and Macbook Pro. I don't love the idea of buying an iMac now and upgrading in a year to Coffee Lake, for example. Whatever I buy I'd like to last at least 3 years.

What do you think, for my situation?

You can do what I did.

I originally ordered i5-7500. Then I canceled the order.

Then I ordered and received the i7-7700K. Honestly it's been fine, but just the few times I've done really heavy CPU intensive stuff where I must sit at my desk, it's been annoying. But this is only a very small minority of what I do.

And then today I just initiated a return request for the 7700K. 😛 It turns out I have until July 15 to return it actually. I thought it was two weeks from receipt but I guess not. Nonetheless I already initiated the return.

And then about 1 minute ago I just ordered an i5 7600 with 1 TB SSD and Radeon 575.

I suspect I would be OKith the 3.4 / 570, but I told myself when I bought my 2010 iMac, I would only buy when I could get a 4 GHz machine. The 3.4 doesn't quite hit that. 😉 Seriously though, the 575 seems to be a decent upgrade from the 570 and while I don't really edit video now, I was planning on getting the Final Cut Pro pack next year for dabbling, since I can get it for cheap as an edu customer. I don't want to buy right now though. I'll wait until it gets updated for High Sierra, and possibly to a new version number, to maximize updates.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

You can do what I did.

I originally ordered i5-7500. Then I canceled the order.

Then I ordered and received the i7-7700K. Honestly it's been fine, but just the few times I've done really heavy CPU intensive stuff where I must sit at my desk, it's been annoying. But this is only a very small minority of what I do.

And then today I just initiated a return request for the 7700K. 😛 It turns out I have until July 15 to return it actually. I thought it was two weeks from receipt but I guess not. Nonetheless I already initiated the return.

And then about 1 minute ago I just ordered an i5 7600 with 1 TB SSD and Radeon 575.

I suspect I would be OKith the 3.4 / 570, but I told myself when I bought my 2010 iMac, I would only buy when I could get a 4 GHz machine. The 3.4 doesn't quite hit that. 😉 Seriously though, the 575 seems to be a decent upgrade from the 570 and while I don't really edit video now, I was planning on getting the Pro pack next year for dabbling, since I can get it for cheap as an edu customer.

Thanks. Looks like the i5 7600 would be just a bit faster than my current machine according to GeekBench. But the Radeon 575 will be faster still in any GPU intensive work, and the internal storage (I plan to get 2 TB SSD; I have 512 GB SSD now) will be faster as well.

So likely slightly faster/better performance, but much quieter? Is that what I should expect?

 

[oldmacs]

I appreciate that they've put a lot into the 2017 iMac (great idea to go back to upgradable RAM) but the whole thing must be too thin to cope with the required cooling. Why can't they just make it thicker and have a better cooling system?

 

[EugW]

The only question I have now is how well the i5-7600 / 575 does with dual 5K screens. My friend with an older model (2014 i5 with I believe M290X or M295X) and 4K screen says it stutters with OS actions like Expose, but given the 575 is already faster than the fastest from 2015, I figure it's likely decent enough.

Thanks. Looks like the i5 7600 would be just a bit faster than my current machine according to GeekBench. But the Radeon 575 will be faster still in any GPU intensive work, and the internal storage (I plan to get 2 TB SSD; I have 512 GB SSD now) will be faster as well.

You can't get the 2 TB SSD with the 7600. Dammit Apple! You have to get at least the 7600K.

So likely slightly faster/better performance, but much quieter? Is that what I should expect?

So why are you upgrading? Just for the GPU?

If you get the 2 TB SSD, that means you have to get the 580 as well.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

You can't get the 2 TB SSD with the 7600. Dammit Apple! You have to get at least the 7600K.

So why are you upgrading? Just for the GPU?

If you get the 2 TB SSD, that means you have to get the 580 as well.

Arggh! That settles it. No 2 TB SSD, no upgrade.

So now my choice is wait for iMac Pro or Coffee Lake (6 cores), or go with 7600k.

I'm upgrading primarily for reduced fan noise, but also for a larger internal drive. I want the 2 TB SSD. Right now all of my photos are on an external Thunderbay IV drive. When I edit photos that needs to be on, and it makes noise, which interferes with audio recording. I don't do a ton of photography so a 2 TB SSD would store all of my current photos and future ones for the next couple of years at least, and provide silent operation.

 

[EugW]

Arggh! That settles it. No 2 TB SSD, no upgrade.

So now my choice is wait for iMac Pro or Coffee Lake (6 cores), or go with 7600k.

I'm upgrading primarily for reduced fan noise, but also for a larger internal drive. I want the 2 TB SSD. Right now all of my photos are on an external Thunderbay IV drive. When I edit photos that needs to be on, and it makes noise, which interferes with audio recording. I don't do a ton of photography so a 2 TB SSD would store all of my current photos and future ones for the next couple of years at least, and provide silent operation.

You can buy an external USB SSD. They make them up to 2 TB and many have a smaller footprint than a credit card. They go for around US$750.

You can expect to get about 400+ MB/s read/write out of those.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

You can buy an external USB SSD. They make them up to 2 TB and many have a smaller footprint than a credit card. They go for around US$750.

You can expect to get about 400+ MB/s read/write out of those.

Yeah, I considered that and it might be the best option until Coffee Lake iMacs are out. But wouldn't this be significantly slower than the internal read/write speeds of a 2017 iMac?

 

[propower]

So to resume: are we basically saying here the new i7-7700k iMac is a potentially faulty machine ?
P.s.
I' also a real time audio guy (DAW music production), and I just ordered the 27' i7 580

Not a faulty machine. Apple has been doing this cooling scheme for quite a while and if there were mass failures we would know. But IMO it is not well designed for heavy use of the 7700K. You can expect 90+degC temps and that fans ramping quickly up at >~35% load of the CPU. You need the cores of the i7 or you don't, the fan bothers you or it doesn't 🙂.

I'm still torn here. I have a late 2014 i7 4.0 Ghz, and the fan comes on all the time (to the point where I've wondered if something is wrong)... even with normal use of productivity apps, but especially with Screenflow and GarageBand recording, which I do on a daily basis.

Yes - this would be my fear of the 7700K. The thermal wear from temp cycling could very well affect the efficacy of the cooling system over time. Fans ramp at 35% load today - but maybe much less in a year or two. Would drive me nuts. But I am particularly sensitive and even got rid of all spinning drives for daily use in 2010!

Yeah, I considered that and it might be the best option until Coffee Lake iMacs are out. But wouldn't this be significantly slower than the internal read/write speeds of a 2017 iMac?

The amazing speed of the internal drive only matters in certain cases.
OS boot drive and programs - launch faster and more responsive to UI
Video editing and processing (especially 4K)
Graphic editing (though this can be done in RAM too)
Copying big files (but target drive speed also matters)
Loading and streaming audio samples for Virtual Instruments

2TB of internal is great but even as a Pro Audio guy I am going 512GB with 1TB external for samples and spare. I have 500+GB of virtual instrument files and need 500G more for OS and audio (use ~350 at any given time). Plus - its an SSD and you don't want to fill it either. External TB3 or USB3 4 bay cages (all SSDs of course and turn the fan off) make a lot of sense for large storage and you can RAID drives if you need more speed. The Akitio unit will give you full drive speed too (450MB/s W, 550MB/s Read) But sure - if funds are there - 2TB SSD internal 🙂

 

[Ethosik]

Got a question for you guys. I am planning to get an iMac to replace my 2010 Mac Pro 6c 3.33Ghz. Is the i7 the best choice, or will even the i5 be better? Since my 2010 Mac Pro processor does not have QuickSync, I do already experience faster encoding times even on my 2016 Macbook Pro.

 

[badlydrawnboy]

Not a faulty machine. Apple has been doing this cooling scheme for quite a while and if there were mass failures we would know. But IMO it is not well designed for heavy use of the 7700K. You can expect 90+degC temps and that fans ramping quickly up at >~35% load of the CPU. You need the cores of the i7 or you don't, the fan bothers you or it doesn't 🙂.



Yes - this would be my fear of the 7700K. The thermal wear from temp cycling could very well affect the efficacy of the cooling system over time. Fans ramp at 35% load today - but maybe much less in a year or two. Would drive me nuts. But I am particularly sensitive and even got rid of all spinning drives for daily use in 2010!



The amazing speed of the internal drive only matters in certain cases.
OS boot drive and programs - launch faster and more responsive to UI
Video editing and processing (especially 4K)
Graphic editing (though this can be done in RAM too)
Copying big files (but target drive speed also matters)
Loading and streaming audio samples for Virtual Instruments

2TB of internal is great but even as a Pro Audio guy I am going 512GB with 1TB external for samples and spare. I have 500+GB of virtual instrument files and need 500G more for OS and audio (use ~350 at any given time). Plus - its an SSD and you don't want to fill it either. External TB3 or USB3 4 bay cages (all SSDs of course and turn the fan off) make a lot of sense for large storage and you can RAID drives if you need more speed. The Akitio unit will give you full drive speed too (450MB/s W, 550MB/s Read) But sure - if funds are there - 2TB SSD internal 🙂

Thanks. I do have the funds and I really like the idea of everything being on the internal drive for maximum speed/quiet.

Just need to decide at this point whether the 7600K + 580 (which I need to get 2 TB SSD) is going to be different enough in terms of noise and performance than my 2014 i7 4.0 Ghz to justify upgrading now, or whether I should just wait for the Coffee Lake iMacs.

I think if I knew Apple will release updated iMacs in the next 12 months, I'd wait. But given that there was a 2-year gap between mid-2015 and mid-2017 iMacs, is it safe to make that assumption?

 

[petemc]

I have an 8 day old iMac 5k. 4.2ghz i7. Radeon Pro 580. Fans have been running a bit more than the 2012 iMac next to it. Also the fans squeak. I spoke to Apple support and they’re going to replace the machine.

Question is do I get the same machine again or a less powerful one to see if it’s quieter? This 4.2’s fan may not be cooling it sufficiently as well as squeaking.

 

[EugW]

I have an 8 day old iMac 5k. 4.2ghz i7. Radeon Pro 580. Fans have been running a bit more than the 2012 iMac next to it. Also the fans squeak. I spoke to Apple support and they’re going to replace the machine.

Question is do I get the same machine again or a less powerful one to see if it’s quieter? This 4.2’s fan may not be cooling it sufficiently as well as squeaking.

What 2012 are you running?

 

[Smoothie]

I just posted in the thread I started on the choice of CPU for use with Logic Pro that I finally decided on the 7600K with the 580 graphics and 512 GB SSD. I think the 7700K is too hot a chip for the confined case and one fan in the iMac. Just my opinion, but I've built computers, and adequate cooling is one of the prime considerations in designing a system. Even if a CPU will protect itself by throttling down when operating at or near the Tjunction temperature, I don't think all that heat is good for the chip over the long term. And it's not easy to replace the thermal paste in the iMac in the event the temps rise as the computer ages. Also, the heat impacts the surrounding electronic components and circuitry which will undergo a lot of temperature swings, which is hard on components.

This wasn't an easy decision. I'd prefer the 7700K because of its hyperthreading, higher clock speed and larger cache, but the first two characteristics contribute to the heat generated by the chip.