The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[masterbaron]

The Apple brand was pivotal, elegant, powerful and fluid and most importantly "in Steve we Trust" was something you could just count on!

You can only imagine where we'd be today if he were still at the helm. I also wonder what the next "pivotal" product will be that changes the world like the smartphone and whether that product will come from Apple.

 

[CWallace]

Please point out where Steve ignored the Mac.

The "cheese grater" Mac Pro comes to mind. There were plenty of complaints amongst "Pros" about the lack of updates to the model after the Early 2009 update with the only changes being mild CPU and GPU updates. I remember all the shade thrown at Apple for the Mid-2012 update being called "New" due to the only change being slightly faster Westmere Series Xeons (the direct equivalent of the latest MacBook Air update).
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The Apple brand was pivotal, elegant, powerful and fluid and most importantly "in Steve we Trust" was something you could just count on!

You can only imagine where we'd be today if he were still at the helm. I also wonder what the next "pivotal" product will be that changes the world like the smartphone and whether that product will come from Apple.

Well the iPad Pro would have happened. And of course he started the Apple Watch development so that would have happened, as well. Would he have given us HomePod? I don't know. We'd probably also have an actual Apple TV using 4K OLED with a $5000+ price tag and an Apple monthly streaming service (ala Hulu and YouTube Red) since he "cracked it".

 

[saulinpa]

The problem is, the touch bar Macs are so pricey that a Mini based on any of them will only serve to illustrate how pricey the touch bar is - essentially it's an Apple Watch embedded in the keyboard.

I'm thinking that the touch bar will get added to a USB or BT keyboard so that the iMacs get it. Then the mini and nMP will also benefit.

 

[masterbaron]

It will be interesting to see what type of modularity Apple has in mind for the MacPro. I find it difficult to believe they'll invest in a whole new architecture after de-emphasizing headless desktops.

Modularity brings to mind ... an operating system that presides over a bridgeable chassis where chassis A is a complete system with ports - Chassis B is a power stack that adds cores, RAM, storage and high-end connectivity optionally. A system that can accommodate exponential growth - really?

 

[sublunar]

Modularity may mean less stuff soldered to the motherboard to reduce cost of replacement in terms of a dead unit under Applecare warranty. Imagine the expense of having to essentially hand over a brand new modular Mac Pro just because one component on the motherboard blew?

In other words, it benefits Apple. Not necessarily end users.

 

[sublunar]

The Apple brand was pivotal, elegant, powerful and fluid and most importantly "in Steve we Trust" was something you could just count on!

You can only imagine where we'd be today if he were still at the helm. I also wonder what the next "pivotal" product will be that changes the world like the smartphone and whether that product will come from Apple.

TV would have been the next project that Steve was into. Thing is, most TV users replace their set every 10 years and set top box tech moves forward way faster at the moment even though 4k and soon 8k tech will be with us but at prices which will come down over time.

I just wonder why it's taken so long for Apple to do good things with the Apple TV. The 2015 update should have had 4k out of the box and only now is it about to get 4k capability according to rumours. The is a good thing as Apple could well have let that 4th generation 2k box languish and perhaps they realise that 4k TVs are gaining traction as upgraders decide to pull the trigger on TVs that have 4k Netflix and Amazon apps built in amongst other things.

It makes you wonder if Apple could sell a branded 8k HDR TV set without smart function capabilities but with camera and other niceties and expect people to plug an AppleTV into it via a USB-C/HDMI 2 port to give it the full capabilities in the future. They could then reap the rewards of updating future set top boxes.

It's a similar thing with the Mac Mini, people keep their computers longer - especially the subset of people who are comfortable sorting out out their own upgrades. If the forthcoming Apple Cinema Display is going to take the Mini or a low end modular Mac Pro into mind it has to be capable and offer stuff that a headless Mac buyer would find compelling over a decent Dell 4k/5k screen.

 

[MRrainer]

The "cheese grater" Mac Pro comes to mind. There were plenty of complaints amongst "Pros" about the lack of updates to the model after the Early 2009 update with the only changes being mild CPU and GPU updates. I remember all the shade thrown at Apple for the Mid-2012 update being called "New" due to the only change being slightly faster Westmere Series Xeons (the direct equivalent of the latest MacBook Air update).
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I think it's safe to assume that during that time, most of Steve's days were spent between iPhone, iPad and battling his cancer.

I work in an outfit where nothing get's done about an issue that doesn't have the direct attention of the boss (and owner). That can lead to "suboptimal" results.

These things considered, Apple did really well under Jobs - but it is a real question how long that may have lasted would he have not died.
Big companies move slowly, however "agile" and "startup-y" they paint themselves. I think Tim Cook is making the best of it.

 

[Count Blah]

Modularity may mean less stuff soldered to the motherboard to reduce cost of replacement in terms of a dead unit under Applecare warranty. Imagine the expense of having to essentially hand over a brand new modular Mac Pro just because one component on the motherboard blew?

In other words, it benefits Apple. Not necessarily end users.

It depends on how they make it modular. Will Apple make it like their proprietary storage? Meaning that Apple will go into the modular business with outrageous markups? Or will they make these standard components, such that people can upgrade their own RAM, storage, CPU, gpu?

I wouldn't put it past Apple to go with their own, but if it they did, they would be savaged.

Modular done right, GREATLY benefits end users. It's one of the main reason the 2014 Mac Mini was such a disastrous release. That and the purposeful neutering of the mini's power.

 

[masterbaron]

I just wonder why it's taken so long for Apple to do good things with the Apple TV. The 2015 update should have had 4k out of the box and only now is it about to get 4k capability according to rumours. The is a good thing as Apple could well have let that 4th generation 2k box languish and perhaps they realise that 4k TVs are gaining traction as upgraders decide to pull the trigger on TVs that have 4k Netflix and Amazon apps built in amongst other things.

In truth there has always been curious leaps or gaps in Apple's development, product-line or decision to go to market. From the beginning I was always curious why Apple didn't present a multi-button mouse when the technology was available - then those designs that seemed wrong from the beginning "bondi blue" I believe (sort of like what Ford did to the Mustang in the 80's) - also why , why, why did Apple not realize the Living Room is where they could rule supreme and then unify the home - of course the awesome G5 seemed like it was made for NASA, durable as rock lasting forever (hint) and they abandoned it - sadly, forever lost perhaps, the Music / Entertainment industry and a no-starter for games. Of course, my personal favorite which is to pair a Dell monitor with their systems or to even think about it.

Marrying the hardware to the software is where the weakness and strength lies - the weakness in leaving a rock-solid form-factor (G5) due to chip / bus architecture as opposed to exploiting the strength by keeping the form-factor and building the new chip - bus architecture into it. But most designers know starting from scratch is far easier than modifying in most cases (yes both cases).

So at this point "waiting" is a key component to my strategy but even if they announce a new desktop topology it won't be until the 2nd iteration before I'll actually believe they're serious - fortunately my 3 Minis are still doing the job!

 

[Boyd01]

from the beginning I was always curious why Apple didn't present a multi-button mouse when the technology was available

I always heard that was a Steve Jobs thing, that he was adamant that a mouse should only have one button. Can't remember which version of the original Macintosh System, but the ability to right-click came along pretty late.

 

[masterbaron]

Looking at Apple's thrusts into the market - the object-oriented UI and mouse - then the OS as they continued with those "thrusts" introducing the iPod, iPad and the iPhone - they've arrived at a place where it's hard to be revolutionary - instead only evolutionary for the last 5-7 years. The next big thing depends on adoption like Apple Watch, Siri, Touch-Bar and so on - all not very pivotal for Apple comparatively. Mobility soaked dry - we've arrived at a place where it's just sort of ho-hum.

I've mentioned several times in the forum the next paradigm should be the elimination of the keyboard - everything else will just be refinements or incremental improvements in resolutions, battery-life, speed and storage. What else has the potential to change the way we work with our systems and processes - what's the weakest link in the computing chain?

The keyboard and the need for a monitor perhaps - I don't see anything revolutionary happening in that area until something transcends our anatomy which could take the form of an implant or they develop holographic screens freeing us from the whole desktop debacle.

Our expectation is generally "revolutionary" at this point and truthfully that's a ways off.

 

[CWallace]

I just wonder why it's taken so long for Apple to do good things with the Apple TV. The 2015 update should have had 4k out of the box and only now is it about to get 4k capability according to rumours. The is a good thing as Apple could well have let that 4th generation 2k box languish and perhaps they realise that 4k TVs are gaining traction as upgraders decide to pull the trigger on TVs that have 4k Netflix and Amazon apps built in amongst other things.

4K is useless without content and back in 2015, there was precious little. Even today Netflix offers only 122 shows per the latest lists I can find. Amazon has 13 titles and it won't be until this year you will be able to watch it on an AppleTV via an Amazon App. Adding in 4K would have just raised the price of the device and people were already upset about the price Apple was charging for it.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Sorry, you lost me there. The only way I use my TV is with an AppleTV. No cable, no outside antenna, just my iTunes library on a Mini server. For 11 years I couldn't get cable at my remote location, only internet was sub megabit DSL. Just got 150/150 FIOS last month so that may change my use patterns in the future. But I'm delighted to have given up cable TV, I wasted so much time watching it in the past. Will never go back to that.

TV show that Pearce Brosnan starred in long before your time most likely. That very setup originted wtihin that TV show 'Remington Steele' in the early to mid 80's where a PC or internet/network based computing system was connected to a TV or in this case a projector in the living room. Many of us have been doing this since the Commodor Vic20 maybe some earlier than that.

 

[Boyd01]

TV show that Pearce Brosnan starred in long before your time most likely.

LOL, I was born in 1949. And I remember that show (especially Stephanie Zimbalist). Just didn't understand what you were trying to say... and not sure that I do now either, but that's OK.

 

[masterbaron]

Nostalgia for sure ... but hey, how about taking a coax cable and tapping off the volume control on an Emerson tube TV and plugging into the AUX jack on a stereo amp (HeathKit or Lafayette's) back in 1969 - Home Theater and I didn't even know that then - but then again, I was mixing records in 8th grade when I made the mixer in the attached photo in Shop class - didn't fully understand the significance of that either - the kids thought I was crazy when I mixed 2 records with a voice-over.

... so, the new Mac Mini is almost certainly coming!

 

[sublunar]

4K is useless without content and back in 2015, there was precious little. Even today Netflix offers only 122 shows per the latest lists I can find. Amazon has 13 titles and it won't be until this year you will be able to watch it on an AppleTV via an Amazon App. Adding in 4K would have just raised the price of the device and people were already upset about the price Apple was charging for it.

I think iPhone users have had a ready source of 4k videos since the 6s was launched. It's not just commercial content at 4k, I'm thinking home videos from phones, drone stuff, etc. The only limit there would be wifi quality in the home.

 

[Count Blah]

I think iPhone users have had a ready source of 4k videos since the 6s was launched. It's not just commercial content at 4k, I'm thinking home videos from phones, drone stuff, etc. The only limit there would be wifi quality in the home.

Exactly. It's another case of apple's mismatched capabilities between there products.

 

[CWallace]

I think iPhone users have had a ready source of 4k videos since the 6s was launched. It's not just commercial content at 4k, I'm thinking home videos from phones, drone stuff, etc. The only limit there would be wifi quality in the home.

Sure, but you could just connect your iPhone or Mac via HDMI to the TV.

And does Airplay current support 4K streaming?

 

[Boyd01]

How could it, since the current AppleTV doesn't support 4k.

 

[Count Blah]

Apple - Its Just Works*



*- Dongles, docks and cabling needed

 

[sublunar]

Sure, but you could just connect your iPhone or Mac via HDMI to the TV.

And does Airplay current support 4K streaming?

I don't think the current official Apple Lightning to HDMI cables support 4k. They'd need to be HDMI 1.4 at the very least and even that that only supports 24 fps whereas 2.0 supports 50Hz and 60Hz refresh rates.

The iPhone 7 records 4k at 30fps.

None of the current Macs have a HDMI 2.0 port - not even the 2013 Mac Pro.

I think if Apple were to have a HDMI 2.0 port they'd have to use more Thunderbolt lanes to ensure enough bandwidth - HDMI 1.4b is 10.2Gb/sec which is roughly the speed of Thunderbolt 1. Or a single PCIe 3.0 lane.

HDMI 2.0 will need 18Gb/s which is roughly the speed of a Thunderbolt 2 port. Or 2 PCIe 3.0 lanes.

Sounds an awful lot like Thunderbolt 3 to HDMI 2.0 dongles will be forthcoming later rather than expecting a built-in HDMI 2.0 port on future Macs if Apple continue the flexibility direction they are heading in.

 

[CWallace]

So there was no way to get your 4K content off your iPhone at 4K and no real third-party content options, ergo no reason for Apple to have supported it back in 2015.

So now that there will be a 4K Apple TV, I assume we'll now see the iPhone 7 and Pro support 4K output (directly and perhaps via AirPlay) to feed it in addition to third-party streaming services.

 

[AFEPPL]

AirPlay and 4K is never going to work. airplay lag like hell as it is on basic stuff so it's going to take a huge improvement in wifi technology to make that a reality.

 

[masterbaron]

So ... a lot of hype and frustration with leading-edge technologies and for those early-adopters a fleeting chance at uniform enjoyment across platforms and devices. This is always the story with content falling behind capability and capability falling behind connectivity and power... you can kinda guesstimate that by the time 8K capability is widely available the masses will just be "beginning" to embrace 4K economically and content will be trailing as always.

Those who wait gain the best experience with the least frustration and cost.

Ultimately, it's about content and personally there's not a lot of great content (Movies) since I'm not consumed with Broadcast TV or Sports on TV - the more I rush to content the harder it is to continue to find great content. It's all very personal, I'm sure, because my wife has no issues at all finding great content (i.e. Walking Dead).

 

[masterbaron]

Replace the Keyboard - Pie in the sky?

I swear this is the first article I've seen that actually says it clearly:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/27/...on=inside-nyt-region&WT.nav=inside-nyt-region

I think it's safe to say in the next 10-15 years this technology will be past the infancy-period - at the rate Apple updates the desktops the whole issue of form-factor will have experienced a revolution if not dissolving into a non-issue.