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That makes no sense to me. If a fair number of former Mini owners have moved on to other manufacturers, then Apple's market for a new Mini has gotten even smaller, so why should Apple take it seriously?
Apple only cares about sales and pushing what they want the future to be - customers be damned at times. Apple used to try to make they have max value add for the customers, but those times are long gone.

Having said that, my reasoning is that any purchase of a MB, MBAir, MBP or iMac, instead of a Mac Mini just proves Tim and gang right in letting it languish for years and years on end. It confirms THEIR vision of the future.

Purchasing a competing product has a two fold benefit. First, it has an impact on the sales. Secondly, it's a actively showing that a small form factor computer is still something worth producing.

I do come off as jaded with Apple, when it comes to the mini, I'll fully admit. But seeing that Apple took notice with the backlash from the MBP, gives me the slightest bit of hope that individuals can make Apple right the Mac ship.
 
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Apple grew market share and sold 20 million more Macs than the previous year. So why should Tim care about the few people who are complaining about the mini?
I can give you two reasons, seemingly fully supported by Apple (they mean it when they say it, right?):

(1) caring about the environment, saving lots of electricity (Mac Mini saves electrical power like crazy)
(2) caring about us little guys, those who cannot afford very expensive iMacs, Macbooks and Mac Pros

The trouble is that both reasons have little or nothing to do with the actual healthy market competition, they rather belong to "practice what you preach" territory.
 
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I can give you two reasons, seemingly fully supported by Apple (they mean it when they say it, right?):

(1) caring about the environment, saving lots of electricity (Mac Mini saves electrical power like crazy)
(2) caring about us little guys, those who cannot afford very expensive iMacs, Macbooks and Mac Pros

The trouble is that both reasons have little or nothing to do with the actual healthy market competition, they rather belong to "practice what you preach" territory.

WOW, that is the biggest stretch of any post on this thread :) Care about the environment??? Really? Then make the damn thing upgradeable by a normal human being. Yeah, I didn't think so.
 
(1) caring about the environment, saving lots of electricity (Mac Mini saves electrical power like crazy)

Compared to what? See Apple's published environmental report for the 2014 Mini: https://images.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/desktops/Macmini_PER_oct2014.pdf

The 2014 Mini draws 5.8 watts at 115volts when idle and that is only for the computer with no display. The 2016 MacBook draws 5.54 watts including the display. The 2016" iPad Pro draws 2.65 watts including the display.

https://images.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/notebooks/MacBook_PER_April2016.pdf
https://images.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/ipad/9.7-inch_iPadPro_PER_mar2016.pdf

I'm sorry, but electricity use would only seem to reinforce Apple's decision to turn away from the Mini. ;)
 
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One can hope that there's someone within Apple that had his ear that's as Mini-crazy as some of us...

Apple employees make a lot of money. They personally dgaf about the mac mini or the macbook air. They probably just buy the latest full spec macbook pro and never give it another thought.
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Compared to what? See Apple's published environmental report for the 2014 Mini: https://images.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/desktops/Macmini_PER_oct2014.pdf

The 2014 Mini draws 5.8 watts at 115volts when idle and that is only for the computer with no display. The 2016 MacBook draws 5.54 watts including the display. The 2016" iPad Pro draws 2.65 watts including the display.

https://images.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/notebooks/MacBook_PER_April2016.pdf
https://images.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/ipad/9.7-inch_iPadPro_PER_mar2016.pdf

I'm sorry, but electricity use would only seem to reinforce Apple's decision to turn away from the Mini. ;)

3 of those watts are probably from the "real" desktop ram sticks. Its a dumb measurement because you can setup the mini to hibernate or power down or whatever if you want to. When people are running 100 watt bulbs, using 5000 watt ovens, 5000 watt driers for hours on end, optimizing a 5 watt device makes no sense.
 
Apple employees make a lot of money. They personally dgaf about the mac mini or the macbook air. They probably just buy the latest full spec macbook pro and never give it another thought.

I dunno. I find I hard to believe that the people that design and dream up these machines don't have any attachment to them at all.
 
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15w with Iris Graphics is exactly what drives the non touch bar MacBook Pro 2016 and 2017 models - both have to drive a retina screen. I believe there are Intel slides that predict the coming of a Kaby Lake refresh CPU with Iris Graphics perhaps in the second quarter of this year - they are currently unannounced.

Apple generally would not use a CPU that didn't have at least Iris Graphics in the absence of a 'proper' GPU - see the Radeon inside the latest G-class Intel quad core CPUs that are destined for the 15" MacBook Pro. That would make a superb Mini but would send that range deep into the 4 figure price bracket for starters. It only makes sense IF the modular Mac Pro is going to be an insane range topper that starts in the iMac Pro price range because it comes with AMD Vega GPU and has dual CPU out of the box.

The only reason we would get an 'affordable' modular Mac Pro is if a base model came with a single CPU and so-called integrated Radeon graphics. There is a roadmap for a Xeon with embedded Radeon graphics similar to the G-class ones but would require additional engineering effort on Apple's part.

The 28w models would go into the touch bar powered MacBook Pro and the price differential due to the touch bar brings into sharp relief the cost of the touch bar on these models. I don't think it makes much sense to go 28w in the next Mini if they intend the range to continue in the same price range. Better for Apple to put that budget into SSD if possible as it would make it possible to make the form factor smaller.

All the ports you mentioned should be feasible on a Mini, perhaps even on a reconfigured taller case, though I think upgradable RAM is at an end. I think base models will all get 8Gb of RAM to start with though, you can't criticise a 2014 Mac for not starting with the minimum RAM required in 2018.

32Gb RAM as an option on mobile chipsets won't be around until the next major architecture change because Apple prefer to use LPDDR3 over DDR4 for power consumption reasons.
You’re right that some of the Kaby Lake 15W processors include Iris graphics (the 7x60U series). I had in mind the 2014 mini/13” MBP [edited], where the 15W part had HD 5100 graphics and you had to step up to the 28W i5-4278U to get Iris graphics.

But having Iris graphics on the 15W parts takes a good chunk of the TDP, limiting the CPU performance significantly. Base clocks in the 15W parts max out at 2.5GHz, while the 28W parts go up to 3.5GHz. And the new Kaby Lake Refresh 15W quad cores have base clocks below 2GHz, and offer only UHD620 graphics. :(

These mobile CPUs are priced at a premium, but 15W vs 28W doesn’t seem to make much difference, so again I don’t see the advantage of dropping 28W parts. I could easily see the base mini with a 15W 2.2/3.4GHz i5-7260U, with higher end minis using the 28W 7x67U series which would give them a decently fast 3.5/4.0GHz CPU at the high end. Using only 15W parts in a future mini refresh would severely hamper its performance.

re: 32GB RAM, I believe Apple will use DDR4 for the refreshed mini, which would also give them the ability to use socketed DIMMs. Using LPDDR3 in the mini is of little benefit, and necessitates max RAM be limited to 16GB (and also requires the RAM to be soldered).
 
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You’re right that some of the Kaby Lake 15W processors include Iris graphics (the 7x60U series). I had in mind the 2014 mini/13” MBP, where the 15W part had HD 5100 graphics and you had to step up to the 28W i5-4278U to get Iris graphics.

But having Iris graphics on the 15W parts takes a good chunk of the TDP, limiting the CPU performance significantly. Base clocks in the 15W parts max out at 2.5GHz, while the 28W parts go up to 3.5GHz. And the new Kaby Lake Refresh 15W quad cores have base clocks below 2GHz, and offer only UHD620 graphics. :(

These mobile CPUs are priced at a premium, but 15W vs 28W doesn’t seem to make much difference, so again I don’t see the advantage of dropping 28W parts. I could easily see the base mini with a 15W 2.2/3.4GHz i5-7260U, with higher end minis using the 28W 7x67U series which would give them a decently fast 3.5/4.0GHz CPU at the high end. Using only 15W parts in a future mini refresh would severely hamper its performance.

re: 32GB RAM, I believe Apple will use DDR4 for the refreshed mini, which would also give them the ability to use socketed DIMMs. Using LPDDR3 in the mini is of little benefit, and necessitates max RAM be limited to 16GB (and also requires the RAM to be soldered).

The 2014 base model Mini shares the MBA CPU of the time - HD5000 - which is NOT Iris Graphics. I guess Apple determined it wasn't good enough to drive retina graphics. HD5000 is the same class of graphics as HD620.

The higher wattage parts are able to sustain higher performance for longer be it driven by higher CPU clock speed or graphics performance. That's the main difference with all the CPUs. You can add more CPU cores, GPU Compute Units etc, you keep increasing the TDP. Even within the CPUs themselves you could run 15w CPUs at 25w (TDP-up) to allow slightly higher base frequency.

In terms of performance, look at the so called poverty spec 15w CPU that Apple happen to use in the MBA (it's a Broadwell chipset which is actually a generation NEWER than the Haswell part in the 2014 Mac Mini) and also until very recently the 2015 21.5" base model iMac. When that iMac got refreshed for 2017 after an 18 month gap it got a bump only to the latest generation 15w CPU as used in the 2017 MacBook Pro. In itself that was quite a bump - from 1.4Ghz to 2.3Ghz and from HD5000 graphics to Iris Plus Graphics 640.

And yet that iMac STILL doesn't get retina graphics while the same combination in a MacBook Pro non touch bar DOES. The iMac has native resolution of 1920x1080 while the MacBook Pro non touch bar is 2560x1600.

I'll be watching with interest when the iMacs get refreshed because logically next time out the entire range goes retina and when that happens Apple will surely use a desktop i5 CPU+GPU like the other SKUs in the retina 4k range because the retina 21.5" iMac is DCI-4k 4096x2304.

Assuming engineering costs must be added in any time a line needs to be refreshed, I'd say that the old style Broadwell MBA remains because it's easy to keep churning those out year after year as long as the parts remain available. They could keep selling them for some time to come at little extra cost. It's all down to maximising the profit and loss.

The same theory exists for the Mac Mini using Haswell parts. Logically on the next refresh they'll have an Apple USB-C monitor available and will want to give it the capability to run a 4k or 5k display with acceptable performance. Thats surely the point when they have to get rid of the antique MBA and the 2014 Mini as the last remaining machines with Thunderbolt 2.

We agree that 32Gb in a laptop is not possible because apple use LPDDR3 and not DDR4. I reckon Apple just won't make the engineering change to allow 32Gb. We simply won't see it on a consumer mobile CPU based product.

Hampering performance isn't sufficient criticism to have affected Apple in any way when they put 1.4Ghz MBA CPUs into Macs with spinning hard disks. It's just building things down to a price.

Coming up from below this entire time is the iPad range. Look what you can buy for low end Mini money and many people have Cloud based solutions for storage. Hopefully this and the possibility that the modular Mac Pro gets a price tag significantly close to the iMac Pro we then get a space in the range for a headless desktop range from $1000-$2500 which is what loads of people in this thread are really interested in.

I keep returning to the thought of Apple not wanting to threaten the iMacs as 4 core 8 thread devices, which is why I go dual core and low energy for Mac Mini. Even putting 28w Iris Plus Graphics in would make the 13" touch bar MBP look overpriced. Strip the box down, get rid of 2.5" hard drives and start the range with SSD only so Jony Ive can create a ever so tall and thin case for optimal wifi. That's why I think the Mini will get 15w CPU across the board and users can get performance boosts by adding eGPU and external storage.

If the existing case must remain then why not engineer a huge heatsink inside for even more silent running?
 
The 2014 base model Mini shares the MBA CPU of the time - HD5000 - which is NOT Iris Graphics. I guess Apple determined it wasn't good enough to drive retina graphics. HD5000 is the same class of graphics as HD620.

The higher wattage parts are able to sustain higher performance for longer be it driven by higher CPU clock speed or graphics performance. That's the main difference with all the CPUs. You can add more CPU cores, GPU Compute Units etc, you keep increasing the TDP. Even within the CPUs themselves you could run 15w CPUs at 25w (TDP-up) to allow slightly higher base frequency.

In terms of performance, look at the so called poverty spec 15w CPU that Apple happen to use in the MBA (it's a Broadwell chipset which is actually a generation NEWER than the Haswell part in the 2014 Mac Mini) and also until very recently the 2015 21.5" base model iMac. When that iMac got refreshed for 2017 after an 18 month gap it got a bump only to the latest generation 15w CPU as used in the 2017 MacBook Pro. In itself that was quite a bump - from 1.4Ghz to 2.3Ghz and from HD5000 graphics to Iris Plus Graphics 640.

And yet that iMac STILL doesn't get retina graphics while the same combination in a MacBook Pro non touch bar DOES. The iMac has native resolution of 1920x1080 while the MacBook Pro non touch bar is 2560x1600.

I'll be watching with interest when the iMacs get refreshed because logically next time out the entire range goes retina and when that happens Apple will surely use a desktop i5 CPU+GPU like the other SKUs in the retina 4k range because the retina 21.5" iMac is DCI-4k 4096x2304.

Assuming engineering costs must be added in any time a line needs to be refreshed, I'd say that the old style Broadwell MBA remains because it's easy to keep churning those out year after year as long as the parts remain available. They could keep selling them for some time to come at little extra cost. It's all down to maximising the profit and loss.

The same theory exists for the Mac Mini using Haswell parts. Logically on the next refresh they'll have an Apple USB-C monitor available and will want to give it the capability to run a 4k or 5k display with acceptable performance. Thats surely the point when they have to get rid of the antique MBA and the 2014 Mini as the last remaining machines with Thunderbolt 2.

We agree that 32Gb in a laptop is not possible because apple use LPDDR3 and not DDR4. I reckon Apple just won't make the engineering change to allow 32Gb. We simply won't see it on a consumer mobile CPU based product.

Hampering performance isn't sufficient criticism to have affected Apple in any way when they put 1.4Ghz MBA CPUs into Macs with spinning hard disks. It's just building things down to a price.

Coming up from below this entire time is the iPad range. Look what you can buy for low end Mini money and many people have Cloud based solutions for storage. Hopefully this and the possibility that the modular Mac Pro gets a price tag significantly close to the iMac Pro we then get a space in the range for a headless desktop range from $1000-$2500 which is what loads of people in this thread are really interested in.

I keep returning to the thought of Apple not wanting to threaten the iMacs as 4 core 8 thread devices, which is why I go dual core and low energy for Mac Mini. Even putting 28w Iris Plus Graphics in would make the 13" touch bar MBP look overpriced. Strip the box down, get rid of 2.5" hard drives and start the range with SSD only so Jony Ive can create a ever so tall and thin case for optimal wifi. That's why I think the Mini will get 15w CPU across the board and users can get performance boosts by adding eGPU and external storage.

If the existing case must remain then why not engineer a huge heatsink inside for even more silent running?
Yes, Apple offers one low-end iMac with a 15W dual-core mobile CPU, but the rest of the 21.5” line has desktop class 65W quad-cores with speeds up to 3.6/4.2GHz. (The reason why that lowest end model doesn’t get 4K retina is to make the $1099 price point, not lack of GPU power.)

Saddling the refreshed Mac mini with only 15W CPUs would kneecap the performance of not just one (lower margin) base model, but all models in the entire lineup—including any quad core option.

You mention not wanting to threaten the iMac line, but Apple will price the mini appropriately such that they’ll still make their margin whether buyers choose Mac mini or iMac. They’ll be ok with either. They’ll want to feature-pull users off the lower-margin base model, they can do that in two ways: 1) by offering higher-performing 28W 7x67U dual-cores and the soon-to-be-released 28W quad cores; and 2) by not offering higher capacity RAM/storage options on the base model BTO configs.

Apple’s not worried about showing up the relatively high pricing on touchbar MBP. Apple laptops are expensive; buyers know that, and it’s not as if the mini is a substitute for those who want a laptop.

If Apple does offer a base Mac mini in the $500-600 range, I think it will be based on the same i5-7360U CPU as the low end 21.5” iMac (and the low end 13” MBP) or maybe even the slightly slower i5-7260U. It would still be able to support dual 4K@60 monitors or a single 5K@60 monitor as you’d expect in 2018.

P.S. iPad pricing bumping into the mini from below isn’t particularly relevant because the iPad isn’t a substitute for the Mac mini (and vice versa).

Mac Pro will likely start at $3k minimum and that’s only if they have a non-Xeon option. If it’s Xeon only I’d expect $3,500-$4,000 minimum if they use the W series, or $4,000-$4,500 if they’re equipped with Skylake-SP (which they must be if Apple is going to use a two-socket motherboard).
 
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Yes, Apple offers one low-end iMac with a 15W dual-core mobile CPU, but the rest of the 21.5” line has desktop class 65W quad-cores with speeds up to 3.6/4.2GHz. (The reason why that lowest end model doesn’t get 4K retina is to make the $1099 price point, not lack of GPU power.)

Saddling the refreshed Mac mini with only 15W CPUs would kneecap the performance of not just one (lower margin) base model, but all models in the entire lineup—including any quad core option.

You mention not wanting to threaten the iMac line, but Apple will price the mini appropriately such that they’ll still make their margin whether buyers choose Mac mini or iMac. They’ll be ok with either. They’ll want to feature-pull users off the lower-margin base model, they can do that in two ways: 1) by offering higher-performing 28W 7x67U dual-cores and the soon-to-be-released 28W quad cores; and 2) by not offering higher capacity RAM/storage options on the base model BTO configs.

Apple’s not worried about showing up the relatively high pricing on touchbar MBP. Apple laptops are expensive; buyers know that, and it’s not as if the mini is a substitute for those who want a laptop.

If Apple does offer a base Mac mini in the $500-600 range, I think it will be based on the same i5-7360U CPU as the low end 21.5” iMac (and the low end 13” MBP) or maybe even the slightly slower i5-7260U. It would still be able to support dual 4K@60 monitors or a single 5K@60 monitor as you’d expect in 2018.

P.S. iPad pricing bumping into the mini from below isn’t particularly relevant because the iPad isn’t a substitute for the Mac mini (and vice versa).

Mac Pro will likely start at $3k minimum and that’s only if they have a non-Xeon option. If it’s Xeon only I’d expect $3,500-$4,000 minimum if they use the W series, or $4,000-$4,500 if they’re equipped with Skylake-SP (which they must be if Apple is going to use a two-socket motherboard).

I really do not understand fully this threatening of the next line. Some are always going to want separate CPU and monitor and some are always going to want the neater cleaner look of the all in one. That is just life.
 
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Apple have already confirmed that there will be a new mini. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple release both a new mini and PRO at the same event in the future. As to what hardware the mini will have, a lot of signs point to the recently announced Intel cpu that has onboard graphics from AMD (which are a lot faster than Intel graphics). Intel and AMD coming together is a very strange thing and there are many in the industry that are saying that Apple probably put pressure on Intel to do this as Intel's graphics aren't very good (Mac OS relies a lot on the GPU to do stuff).

Mac mini confirmation:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/20/apple_mac_mini_tim_cook/

Intel/AMD cpu
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1222...-core-with-radeon-rx-vega-m-graphics-launched
 
Not sure i agree with that part at all... the i5 air is slower than the lowly base i5 in the mini
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-5350U-vs-Intel-Core-i5-4260U
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2530&cmp[]=2238
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-5350U-vs-Intel-Core-i5-4278U
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2530&cmp[]=2312

And while the i7 option isn't significantly better it's still better.
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-5650U-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4578U
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2503&cmp[]=2345

So, unless you are wanting 15W, lower performing CPU, you're better off sticking with the mini.
Maybe this can be a crotch of comfort for some? The mini isn't the worst performing and most dated product in the apple line up...

You are forgetting the Air has double the RAM, built-in SSD, and support for 4K at a full 60 Hz. Oh, and it's portable and has its own screen (albeit a crappy screen).

The Air blows the 2014 Mini clean out of the water.
[doublepost=1515954300][/doublepost]
Apple have already confirmed that there will be a new mini.

Fact check: False.
 
You are forgetting the Air has double the RAM, built-in SSD, and support for 4K at a full 60 Hz. Oh, and it's portable and has its own screen (albeit a crappy screen).

The Air blows the 2014 Mini clean out of the water.
[doublepost=1515954300][/doublepost]

Fact check: False.
Mini looks portable to me, i think you mean useable while on the move.. ;)

Air doesnt have double the RAM, thats a configurable "option", you pick what you need when you order the "base" mini - it's configurable upto 16GB air is now only 8GB.
Air is limited to the same 4k over HDMI as the mini or MBP or rMB... CPU benches are already posted and its clear which has the upper hand.

From apple support ;)

With OS X Yosemite v10.10.3, most single-stream 4K (3840x2160) displays are supported at 60Hz operation on the following Mac computers:

  • MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015)
  • MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014)
  • Mac Pro (Late 2013)
  • iMac (27-inch, Late 2013 and later)
  • Mac mini (Late 2014)
  • MacBook Air (Early 2015)
  • MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015)

Air blows (corrected that for you, and sucks), I completely agree but a quick "fact check" for you...

Summary,
Air $999 gets you a slower 1.8Ghz CPU with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD
Air $1199 gets you a slower 1.8Ghz CPU with 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD
or
Mini $899 gets you a faster 1.4Ghz CPU with 8GB RAM 1TB FusionDrive
Mini $899 gets you a faster 2.6Ghz CPU with 8GB RAM 256GB SSD
Mini $999 gets you a faster 2.6Ghz CPU with 16GB RAM 256GB SSD

I didn't bother with the i7 as the uplift is the same as is the outcome. All that said, i fully agree with the comments around the Mini is way out of date - it's factually just not right at the bottom of the apple crap pile, the MBA holds that crown right now.
 
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I can give you two reasons, seemingly fully supported by Apple (they mean it when they say it, right?):

(1) caring about the environment, saving lots of electricity (Mac Mini saves electrical power like crazy)
(2) caring about us little guys, those who cannot afford very expensive iMacs, Macbooks and Mac Pros

The trouble is that both reasons have little or nothing to do with the actual healthy market competition, they rather belong to "practice what you preach" territory.

If they really care about the market penetration of macOS and Swift they had better start offering a modern desktop Mac anyone can afford. Simple as that.
 
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From apple support ;)

With OS X Yosemite v10.10.3, most single-stream 4K (3840x2160) displays are supported at 60Hz operation on the following Mac computers:

  • MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015)
  • MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014)
  • Mac Pro (Late 2013)
  • iMac (27-inch, Late 2013 and later)
  • Mac mini (Late 2014)
  • MacBook Air (Early 2015)
  • MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015)

From 2015 :p

(that page was corrected ages ago)
 
Air doesnt have double the RAM, thats a configurable "option"

The 13" MBA is only available with 8gb RAM, it's not "configurable". It used to be the case that there was a 4gb and 8gb version, but Apple dropped the 4gb MacBook Air and the base model now has 8gb. The base model Mini is still only 4gb. 8gb is "double 4gb". o_O
 
The 13" MBA is only available with 8gb RAM, it's not "configurable". It used to be the case that there was a 4gb and 8gb version, but Apple dropped the 4gb MacBook Air and the base model now has 8gb. The base model Mini is still only 4gb. 8gb is "double 4gb". o_O

That's what's it says above - guess reading is hard...
Mac mini is configurable, you pick what you want when you order is what I said.. if you want 8GB or 16GB in the base model it's not a problem and a mini out performs the MBA, so we're all good and golden now...o_O
 
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