The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[leo-tech]

Mac Mini 2018: more chassis design ideas, AIO series (Mini combined with bug zapper...for best overall effect I would recommend to add air cooler and 5k retina walls, as per my previous Mini chassis design idea).

 

[Lammers]

I can't help but notice...still no official confirmation from Apple of anything related to (probably, maybe, hopefully, almost certainly) forthcoming Mac Mini 2018, no nothing. Is it really that difficult for them at least to expand just a little on that rather vague and lacking details "...we do plan for Mac mini to be an important part of our product line going forward" statement?

That's not how Apple functions. Unless it is in their own interests (which is extremely rare), Apple does not comment on product plans.

My view - and this is speculation - is that Apple doesn't really know what to do with the Mac mini. I suspect they probably feel like just killing it off, but aren't quite sure how that will be perceived by the market (particularly given the growing sentiment about how Apple doesn't care about Mac) so they don't have the courage to do it.

 

[leo-tech]

My view - and this is speculation - is that Apple doesn't really know what to do with the Mac mini. I suspect they probably feel like just killing it off, but aren't quite sure how that will be perceived by the market (particularly given the growing sentiment about how Apple doesn't care about Mac) so they don't have the courage to do it.

The way I see it (and you seem to think along the same lines), Apple became kind of a dog in the manger about Macintosh computers...if what happened to Mac Mini over the last period of time is any indication, they are no longer terribly enthusiastic about updating and manufacturing them, but at the same time they won't let other vendors have them in any form, shape or manner.

 

[Lammers]

Steve would never let the Macs die on the vine, like they have been for years now.

See, not all ‘Steve’ comments are BS

Macs are clearly not dying on the vine. Mac sales are up year on year, and in a PC market that is declining overall. Macs are probably doing better now than they have EVER done. And Macs are broadly considered the most desirable PCs to own. The Mac mini specifically may be dying on the vine, because it's a market Apple isn't interested in pursuing.

It's a bizarrely presumptuous thing to say so definitively and confidently what Steve wouldn't have done. I don't think you or anyone else outside of Apple knows what Steve would or wouldn't have done differently.

 

[Cape Dave]

Mac Mini 2018: more chassis design ideas, AIO series (Mini combined with air cooler - how cool is that, both figuratively and literally! ... plus, of course, 5K retina walls, aquarium and other wallsavers).

Wow, I like it! Throw in, oh, I don't know, say a... Lava Lamp built in and I am sold!

 

[Boyd01]

You don't have to have HDD. Stump up a lot more cash for SSD and you get the snappy performance you desire, or require.

That is only the case with the cheaper models of the Mini. With the 2.8ghz i5 and 3.0ghz i7 Mini, you can swap the standard 1tb Fusion drive for a 256gb SSD at no additional cost.

 

[leo-tech]

It's a bizarrely presumptuous thing to say so definitively and confidently what Steve wouldn't have done. I don't think you or anyone else outside of Apple knows what Steve would or wouldn't have done differently.

I have a bad feeling that these days inside of Apple they have no clue either.

 

[masterbaron]

To lead you need to inspire and Apple clearly knew how to do this ... almost to a formula which they executed ad infinitum with the iPhone ... trouble is... they're not applying that line of thinking to the headless category and only to a small degree for the desktop in general ... simply put as an example ... Apple's move to dongles signals a priority shift, lapse in judgement or afterthought to profit ... this is not the company we knew - inspiration comes from many places and certainly from the top .... I am sorry but Tim doesn't even sound "inspirational" and the over use of the word "product" says something not quite Apple to me. It's drab and the crew in general is showing it's age or the weight from all the money in their pockets.

Their presentations delivered in weak "Jobs" style and posture need a make-over. They need "mission" - "urgency" - "refresh" and overhaul!

Now that they have gleaned every penny from the iPhone and saved lives with Apple Watch they need to breathe new life into the "old" dynamic make it great again ... why not?

 

[Micky Do]

That is only the case with the cheaper models of the Mini. With the 2.8ghz i5 and 3.0ghz i7 Mini, you can swap the standard 1tb Fusion drive for a 256gb SSD at no additional cost.

Still a trade off;

Quadruple the storage with Fusion Drive vs Double the speed with the SSD

Different folks, different priorities.

 

[Count Blah]

Still a trade off;

Quadruple the storage with Fusion Drive vs Double the speed with the SSD

Different folks, different priorities.

Made more sense when they actually provided a good % of the fusion drive as SSD. But now the ssd portion is miniscule, and the fusion concept suffers for it.

 

[Cape Dave]

To lead you need to inspire and Apple clearly knew how to do this ... almost to a formula which they executed ad infinitum with the iPhone ... trouble is... they're not applying that line of thinking to the headless category and only to a small degree for the desktop in general ... simply put as an example ... Apple's move to dongles signals a priority shift, lapse in judgement or afterthought to profit ... this is not the company we knew - inspiration comes from many places and certainly from the top .... I am sorry but Tim doesn't even sound "inspirational" and the over use of the word "product" says something not quite Apple to me. It's drab and the crew in general is showing it's age or the weight from all the money in their pockets.

Their presentations delivered in weak "Jobs" style and posture need a make-over. They need "mission" - "urgency" - "refresh" and overhaul!

Now that they have gleaned every penny from the iPhone and saved lives with Apple Watch they need to breathe new life into the "old" dynamic make it great again ... why not?

You speak well. You speak the truth.
[doublepost=1532395498][/doublepost]

Made more sense when they actually provided a good % of the fusion drive as SSD. But now the ssd portion is miniscule, and the fusion concept suffers for it.

My thoughts precisely. Truth is, eliminating an entire supply line like spinners wo9uld save money and that savings could be put towards the MINISCULE price difference for an SSD and Apple, with all their eliminate headphone jack, eliminate near all ports, eliminate cdrom drive kind of wisdom should have NO TROUBLE going all SSD. Soon it will be mere pennies to produce these bad bays.

Enough with this 16GB SSD + Spinner Fusion BS. It's a joke.

 

[PickUrPoison]

My thoughts precisely. Truth is, eliminating an entire supply line like spinners wo9uld save money and that savings could be put towards the MINISCULE price difference for an SSD and Apple, with all their eliminate headphone jack, eliminate near all ports, eliminate cdrom drive kind of wisdom should have NO TROUBLE going all SSD. Soon it will be mere pennies to produce these bad bays.

Enough with this 16GB SSD + Spinner Fusion BS. It's a joke.

If you want SSDs on the base mini, the base mini will have to start at $800-900. But Apple can’t afford to ignore the $500 to $850 segment of the market. That’s the space served by HDD and Fusion drives. Kill that segment and you’ve probably killed more than half your unit sales volume.

It has almost nothing to do with drive cost and everything to do with average ASP. The mini can’t be a viable lineup going forward if a majority of buyers are satisfied with an 8G/256GB SSD model that you’d want Apple to sell for less than the $899 they currently charge for that config.

What configs would you have Apple sell in the $500-850 range, given that 8GB/256GB SSD sells for $899? And to just say, cut all the prices $300-400 doesn’t fix the ASP problem, it just makes it worse.

 

[Cape Dave]

If you want SSDs on the base mini, the base mini will have to start at $800-900. But Apple can’t afford to ignore the $500 to $850 segment of the market. That’s the space served by HDD and Fusion drives. Kill that segment and you’ve probably killed more than half your unit sales volume.

It has almost nothing to do with drive cost and everything to do with average ASP. The mini can’t be a viable lineup going forward if a majority of buyers are satisfied with an 8G/256GB SSD model that you’d want Apple to sell for less than the $899 they currently charge for that config.

What configs would you have Apple sell in the $500-850 range, given that 8GB/256GB SSD sells for $899? And to just say, cut all the prices $300-400 doesn’t fix the ASP problem, it just makes it worse.

Even a meager Apple-esque 128GB SSD would be OK for some/many. Personally, I think we have been led by the nose for SSD prices. OK, some R&D for sure, and some factory tooling for sure, but once those are in place, isn't the manufacturing process cheap and getting cheaper? I suspect we have paid for SSD research many many times over. Many.

Apple could do one of their insane "10,000% faster according to this chart" type of marketing (which would almost contain some truth ) and make up their $5 "spinner loss" in volume

 

[twalk]

Even a meager Apple-esque 128GB SSD would be OK for some/many. Personally, I think we have been led by the nose for SSD prices. OK, some R&D for sure, and some factory tooling for sure, but once those are in place, isn't the manufacturing process cheap and getting cheaper? I suspect we have paid for SSD research many many times over. Many.

Apple could do one of their insane "10,000% faster according to this chart" type of marketing (which would almost contain some truth ) and make up their $5 "spinner loss" in volume

If Apple would be willing to go with SATA SSDs, then you wouldn't even have to sacrifice size. This week, you could finally find some 480G SATA SSDs for as little as $65. The OEM price then has to be around $35-$50, making the 480G SSD only $10-$20 more expensive than the 500G spinners that Apple puts into the low end Macs

Heck, if you really want a 120G SATA SSD, I've seen them going for as little as $23 retail in the last 3 weeks. That means at the OEM level, that 120G SATA SSDs are the cheapest storage you can now get, ... yes, cheaper than 500G 2.5" hard drives ...

 

[Cape Dave]

If Apple would be willing to go with SATA SSDs, then you wouldn't even have to sacrifice size. This week, you could finally find some 480G SATA SSDs for as little as $65. The OEM price then has to be around $35-$50, making the 480G SSD only $10-$20 more expensive than the 500G spinners that Apple puts into the low end Macs

Heck, if you really want a 120G SATA SSD, I've seen them going for as little as $23 retail in the last 3 weeks. That means at the OEM level, that 120G SATA SSDs are the cheapest storage you can now get, ... yes, cheaper than 500G 2.5" hard drives ...

LOL, SATA! Yikes! A freaking dinosaur I was actually thinking 128GB NVMe. I mean really, less space and WAY faster. This is 2018! But the ability to add a 2.5 SSD for storage would, of course, be great. That could be SATA.

 

[masterbaron]

Visiting the Apple "MAC" home page is a rare thing in the past 5-10 years but having just taken a look it seems almost foolish to expect a traditional desktop to make it to market. They've got this video of a blind composer using a laptop and while it's nice to know that's possible the video displays an ergonomic mess for the composer which certainly could benefit from a full desktop configuration - but hey that's just not cool!

There's not one indication they're in that business (headless) other than the "model menu" which is easy to overlook compared to the primary message on the page - the headless desktop get's no love! - it's almost as though since the illuminated logo of the laptop made it to the big screen you never see a traditional desktop configuration - it's perhaps no longer relevant for those who view the world through the screen - Apple's natural audience.

Those who view the world through the things they create and contribute perhaps have a different value system than those who consume-only ... certainly there are more consumers than creators and perhaps that's the motivation for the subdued presence. The next thought that comes to mind is pretty obvious ... if Apple offers a headless desktop they have to aim for the sky to catch as many creative types (developers and such) as possible since the market is smaller and that means the cost will be prohibitive for the average consumer and what motivation remains for the Mini which is a diminished market to begin with.

I think the hardest part for Apple will be dedicating space on the home page for something they've tried to de-emphasize for so long. They've got to spin some real *hit for that.

 

[Miat]

If you want SSDs on the base mini, the base mini will have to start at $800-900. But Apple can’t afford to ignore the $500 to $850 segment of the market. That’s the space served by HDD and Fusion drives.

Leaving aside the already low cost of SATA SSDs as mentioned by twalk, I don't object to a base model with a SATA spinner. But I object strongly to it being 5400rpm (for the boot drive, as just a storage drive is fine).

 

[Neodym]

Fingers, mouths and eyes are serious holdbacks towards more advanced computer format.
There's a little work out now on thought reading machines. That might get us past the grossly physical problems holding back efficient interface design.

AR will push wearables and at some time it'll be normal to have no physical monitor anymore, but instead a virtual one mirrored into some glasses wearable. Gesture recognition is already pretty present and even controlling artificial limbs with your thoughts. It's not as ScienceFictionesque as it may have been only 10 years ago.

Reality: the alternative to a $499 4GB/500GB HDD base mini isn’t a $499 8GB/256GB SSD mini; it’s an $899 8GB/256GB SSD mini.

If you want SSDs on the base mini, the base mini will have to start at $800-900.

You can't stop spreading that assumption of yours as fact, can you? You've been already corrected multiple times, clearly showing that you miss or ignore several factors in your calculation (such as technical progress, price decreases etc.).

The only reason that there still is a $499 mini with 4GB Ram and a spinner, is Apple's ignorance and/or greed. They could most probably offer a mini with 8GB Ram and a small SSD at the same (or close to the) price point of the current entry mini, without significant (if any) impact to their holy margin. They could also lower the prices for the existing model.

But neither is - to say it with Apple's own wording - in their DNA.

 

[twalk]

LOL, SATA! Yikes! A freaking dinosaur I was actually thinking 128GB NVMe. I mean really, less space and WAY faster. This is 2018! But the ability to add a 2.5 SSD for storage would, of course, be great. That could be SATA.

PCIe SSDs that are at SATA speed levels are typically only $10-$15 more than the SATA drives. They're a bit more right now, since the SATA drives dropped price first, but I'd expect them to catch up in the next few weeks. Note that it doesn't really cost any more to produce PCIe SSDs that run at SATA speed, there just isn't much of a market for them outside of the predictable pre-orders for use in PC laptops

I'm not really worried about the faster parts for a consumer level machine. Those really fast PCIe SSDs can cost 3X or (much, much) more than the SATA level speed ones. They're a huge benefit if you've got a professional level setup with plenty of ram (32G+), high speed networking (10Gb), and TB3 with direct storage. However much of their speed is just wasted with consumer level machines that are memory starved, with standard networking (1Gb ENet) and typically low-speed usb-c at most

 

[masterbaron]

AR will push wearables and at some time it'll be normal to have no physical monitor anymore, but instead a virtual one mirrored into some glasses wearable. Gesture recognition is already pretty present and even controlling artificial limbs with your thoughts. It's not as ScienceFictionesque as it may have been only 10 years ago.

Input to the computer will be the "pivotal" change - getting stuff into the computer faster will necessitate a doorway into our minds and once there's a doorway the challenge is keeping things secure and keeping you "you". I can't imagine the price we'll pay and the problems that will be attending. I thought the smartphone was a benign advancement at one time also but clearly there's a lot of "bad" that comes with the "good".

Social media and its impact can be easily seen and felt (disruption, hypersensitivity, impact to children, every voice must be heard, "yes" changes to "no" instantly) - invasion of privacy is also impacted with cameras everywhere and finally you can see the impact to our society as a whole in terms of today's social dynamic and the Law.

The biggest problem is our problem - we engineer a solution to a problem with unseen problem in tow like plastic and pesticides common enemies for the long term!

 

[philipma1957]

It’s ironic that some of the same people who complain about Apple having high prices are the same ones who say SSD should be standard. They somehow miss the fact that they’re advocating for a price increase.

Reality: the alternative to a $499 4GB/500GB HDD base mini isn’t a $499 8GB/256GB SSD mini; it’s an $899 8GB/256GB SSD mini.

A refresh will get you a faster CPU and GPU, and sure there could be a slight price decrease, but Apple’s had years to cut the price of that config if they thought it was overpriced, and they haven’t done it (yet).

It’s upsetting to those that think the mini should be inexpensive, but I’ll say it again: there’s no reason to expect price cuts with a mini refresh.

SSD's are dirt cheap Apple is simply greedy as they can be.
2tb for 379 and I have purchased these for under 270 when on sales
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820156175
1tb for 185 I purchased this for under 170 on a sale
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820156174
500gb for 98 I got one of these at 85
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820156173
250gb for 65 I got this for 59
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820156172

So if I can get a 250gb ssd for 59 I know apple can get it for under 50
They could offer a 250gb ssd and 8gb ram for 599 and turn a profit quite easily.

 

[masterbaron]

An aside and totally off-topic (really?) ... I get somewhat envious when you guys go down to the parts and tool shed and delve into all that stuff .. oh yeah, I get it ... been in IT-Telecommunications for 30 years and built a 4-Channel mixer with reverb in 8th grade... but somewhere about the time my lady got her first smartphone (maybe 2012) things began to change at home - once she connected with the camera and texting things began to change in the car and everywhere else - since social media has grabbed hold of the world the rest has now become history.

To a large extent being shaken from the Apple tree and falling to the ground becoming once again part of the foundation is quite desirable. When you care and work hard for progress it's hard to accept technological advancements that dim the prospects for our own humanity. I started a fire this weekend with a striker - it was epic ... those flames somehow made it to the bedroom!

 

[philipma1957]

For me I owe a debt of gratitude to apple. I got into the mac mini in 2006 and hot rodded or souped up over 500 of them from 2006 to 2014. I had 10-20 minis in house all the time and did I nice ebay business selling models with higher specs then you could buy from apple. At better prices it was fun. I always owned 1 or 2 top end mac minis had a house full of parts. I did a lot of ebay sales mostly spurred by the 2006-2012 mac minis. When It died in 2014 I was drifting into crypto coins and mining them. Since build the minis and a few mac laptops say 50 to 75 of them, I had part contacts I had the 2010 mac pro that I did a long thread on cpu updating and was mining a bit of coins with the mac pro.
If it wasn't for the mac mini I would not have gotten into mining coins and mining gear like I did.
I go by the same tag on bitcointalk.org and as much fun as modding mac minis was back in the day it does not touch the fun I had with the mining of crypto coins. So thanks apple for the push out of your world into the real world.
I still post here but the thrill is gone mac.

Thanks to mr Cook

 

[Neodym]

as much fun as modding mac minis was back in the day it does not touch the fun I had with the mining of crypto coins. So thanks apple for the push out of your world into the real world.

Out of curiosity, Philip: what’s the fun in watching a computer doing heavy calculations? And how is this connected to the real world?

 

[Count Blah]

Macs are clearly not dying on the vine. Mac sales are up year on year, and in a PC market that is declining overall. Macs are probably doing better now than they have EVER done. And Macs are broadly considered the most desirable PCs to own. The Mac mini specifically may be dying on the vine, because it's a market Apple isn't interested in pursuing.

It's a bizarrely presumptuous thing to say so definitively and confidently what Steve wouldn't have done. I don't think you or anyone else outside of Apple knows what Steve would or wouldn't have done differently.

Tell that to the Mac Mini, Mac Pro and Macbook Air.

Steve LOVED the Mac - In all shapes and sizes. Tim does not.