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Well, forecasting aside, I think that storage bumping the Mini may been a sign that the iMac is staying with Coffee Lake and no T2 for a few more months. A storage bump of the iMac for 2020 using existing storage options would be a fair assumption of what's next for that.

But it's precisely the storage issue that leads me to think that Apple will abandon both 21.5" and 27" iMacs when they go all SSD - probably with a 24" model.

The next bit belongs in an iMac thread but I may as well debut my thinking here because the logic affects the Mini:

On the basis that the 4k 21.5" panel and the 5k 27" panel are both 218/219ppi and that's Retina resolution to Apple, there would be plenty who will then say that the 24" 4k LG panel on sale in Apple's own stores isn't retina any more due to a lower pixel pitch of around 180ppi.

Now, what if a 24" panel for an iMac wasn't 4k but was in fact 4.5k - 4608 x 2592 and this was going into a thinner product - let's call it the iMac Air - and this would come with all SSD etc.

The 4.5k iMac would have a 219ppi but would come with the MacBook Pro 16" class CPU (up to 10 cores) and a GPU capable of driving that many pixels - AMD 5600 Pro for example. Give it a VESA mount option for easy mounting to suit.

The 4k 21.5" iMac hangs around with a storage bump to bring Fusion drives across the range.

The Air becomes an all SSD product, a MacBook Pro 16" with bigger screen.

And the Pro gets the much expected Xeon upgrades but with a lower starting SKU (say, with 16Gb).

And the Mini sticks around on the refreshed spec because Apple are still buying the Coffee Lake parts to make them and the 21.5" iMac.

The next convergence would be October 2021 when Apple may decide to give the 21.5" iMac the Air treatment and get rid of the bulky HD storage. At that point the Mini could get the H class 10NM CPUs which will have better multithread benchmarks than the ageing 8th gen Coffee Lake CPUs purely on the basis of being 4-5 years more advanced. You'd think then that 512Gb-1Tb SSD might be cheap enough for base level products. :)
In the future they may be able to select an 8 core 16 thread Comet Lake H part for example and then the marketing can heavily point to benchmarks based around that.

I think the point there is that the multicore benchmarks will be something they can point at with the return of hyper-threading and extra cores in the H CPUs.

Bear in mind that international supply chain disruption due to corona-virus may have delayed the release of Comet Lake CPUs so in that light what Apple have done with the Mini is logical.

It's entirely within their power to make a 2020 Mini out of existing SKU parts and by the same token they could do the same with the iMac but why they would not have done the same refresh to the iMac on the same day?

They could have offered 2Tb Fusion Drives on the bottom two 27" SKUs and maybe made 16Gb RAM standard on the top SKU but it adds pressure to whatever comes after it. Perhaps they don't want to increase base RAM or HDD storage, or to go SSD with a 256Gb/512Gb SSD drive, in case it reflects badly on the successive product.

Therefore they might have decided to leave the iMac alone for now. It's obviously easy enough for Apple to make an amendment later (or launch their replacement product instead!)

All of this has no effect on what I have speculated would be the future of the iMac, it's quite possible they'd be happy to see the 2019 iMac see out an 18 month product cycle before a refresh just like the 2018 Mac mini appears to have done.
I doubt it’s all so complicated. Apple will likely update the mini and iMac before the end of the year, assuming Intel releases Comet Lake S soon.

I don’t know what you mean by “storage issue” or why you think it means Apple would abandon 21.5 and 27” iMacs for a 24” iMac. I see no linkage. There’s no reason to kill a popular product like the 27” iMac, and replacing the 21.5” with a new 24” monitor adds cost to the lowest priced model. Not a good plan.

btw I wouldn’t say the mini was refreshed, I’d say they axed a low-spec SKU. The price cuts at all storage capacities are of course welcome, but as far as we know there’s been no actual refresh. NAND prices have been falling for over a year; Apple had two previous price cuts (March and July 2019).

It could turn out that there are changes though, maybe they just weren’t significant enough for Apple to bother mentioning.
 
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Apple would probably pair 2x4 as usual to get dual channel working - if upgrading just keep the original RAM in a box in case it needs to go back to Apple.

Wouldn't it be nice if the RAM was much more accessible again and an October 2021 mini could be more easily maintained? The back of the unit makes it look like a slide-out affair.
I'm running my 2018 with orig. 4GB and another 16GB from OWC.
 
I want a Mini badly. But with the high possibility of a CPU refresh this year I think I can hold out till June. Knowing my luck if I buy the Mini now a new one will be announced or released right after.
 
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I doubt it’s all so complicated. Apple will likely update the mini and iMac before the end of the year, assuming Intel releases Comet Lake S soon.

I don’t know what you mean by “storage issue” or why you think it means Apple would abandon 21.5 and 27” iMacs for a 24” iMac. I see no linkage. There’s no reason to kill a popular product like the 27” iMac, and replacing the 21.5” with a new 24” monitor adds cost to the lowest priced model. Not a good plan.

btw I wouldn’t say the mini was refreshed, I’d say they axed a low-spec SKU. The price cuts at all storage capacities are of course welcome, but as far as we know there’s been no actual refresh. NAND prices have been falling for over a year; Apple had two previous price cuts (March and July 2019).

It could turn out that there are changes though, maybe they just weren’t significant enough for Apple to bother mentioning.

The Mac mini 2020 appears to be a 2018 mode with storage doubled, I wasn't expecting Apple to refresh until the model was 2 years old. As it is 18 months appears to be on the early side. The 2019 iMac is only 12 months old at this point so certainly would not expect a refresh given its recent history pointing at 18 month refreshes.

The 'storage issue' pertains to how Apple would progress from offering 1Tb+ HDD/Fusion Drive to going SSD only in the perception of consumers.

For Apple, the average Joe might get a bit confused if the 1Tb storage minimum across the range is suddenly replaced by 256Gb SSD in models they come to know and 'love'.

On that reasoning, if you eliminate the 21.5" and 27" iMac and create a new product, people are more willing to accept a 'drop' in storage capacity because they can't compare like with like any more.

The marketing reasoning behind the iMac Pro is that it's a 'new product' but it's not a problem as 1Tb SSD is obviously plenty of storage.

In effect a 24" 4.5k iMac Air is a new product. People will be more inclined to accept a 256Gb base storage without it being a stumbling block based on expectations of the previous model because there isn't one.

On that same basis, I argue that keeping the 21.5" iMac around, with Fusion Drives, as an entry level SKU makes sense as transitional model much like Apple kept non retina 21.5" models around.

And by extension Apple continue to order the 8th generation Coffee Lake B CPUs that are fuelling the Mac mini to potentially keep that model going till, say, Q1 2022 which would be close to the discontinue date of the 8th gen desktop CPUs.

But what about the Comet Lake S CPUs which we think will be going into desktop Macs? Let's hope that they will because that means that Intel are producing suitable B variants for Apple but I was thrown off by the unexpected refresh of the Mac mini. If it was getting Comet Lake S in October I'd have been minded to leave the Mini for another 6 months assuming that was the plan.

The fact that the 2019 iMac hasn't so far received a refresh is also a curiosity but having looked at the storage options there's probably little that Apple would want to do with that and it makes even less sense if they then refreshed it again 6 months later with a major update as the 2019 model would only have been out for 12 months to date and iMacs have generally been on an 18 month cycle in recent generations.

But then you look at what Apple have to do to get the iMac to T2:

a. Increase price to deal with T2 CPU
b. Switch from Fusion drive to SSD (means more cost, even though NAND is cheap enough for Apple to double storage options in models from 16" MacBook Pro to Mac mini and various iPads)
c. Figure out how to explain why 256Gb of SSD has replaced 1Tb Fusion Drive, despite 'costing more' - 512Gb sounds more likely at an even greater cost.
d. Hope that Intel have suitable B variant CPU (ideally Comet Lake S) they are willing to offer and can promise the same in the future if not with every generation then with every other one.

Apple did this with the Mac mini by virtually doubling the price of the entry level while removing the high capacity hard drive for a small SSD.

Apple probably have price points to hit and adding T2 and SSD probably couldn't be done without pushing the price up despite Apple's good deals on NAND.

A 27" iMac probably deserves to start with 512Gb SSD as a high ticket item (on a par with how the 16" MacBook Pro starts), and add the cost of a T2 in there and you could be adding $500 across the board to 27" iMacs on current price and that's before Intel confirm that they'll do a B variant Comet Lake.

Despite Apple's hedging and buying power in NAND I think that's still a $300 uplift making the base 27" iMac break the $2k limit with top SKU possibly over $2700.

Ironically, the top SKU 27" iMac looks like it would go to 512Gb SSD with no extra cost but I reckon it will come with 1Tb SSD, on the basis that it's currently 2Tb Fusion Drive, for perhaps a $200-$300 uplift.

Of course, Apple may not want to push the price up, so the way they bring it down is to make do with a smaller screen as part of a redesign package.


Here's my reasoning:

1. Intel haven't confirmed that B variants of the Comet Lake S CPUs will be available. And Apple probably already know what the long terms plans are so might decide to skip that if Intel said they wouldn't be doing any more in the future. Apple did this with Skylake which had a version with Iris Pro 580. The MacBook Pro 15" 2016 simply went to a discrete GPU on both SKUs. The delayed mid 2017 Skylake iMacs went with a mobile Kaby Lake CPU for the entry level which is still on sale in the 21.5" form factor!

2. Desktop SKU orders may be on a downward trajectory so Apple probably couldn't order as many CPUs as they would have (and this is before a potential coronavirus related downturn) - some of the iMac buyers may have bought iMac Pros, others may have bought laptops - the 16" MacBook Pro with the magic keyboard being a strong sales driver. Apple could decide to consolidate CPU orders.

3. The H series 45w CPUs will always be suitable for Apple due to the 16" MacBook Pro. It then makes you wonder if Apple could negotiate a very sweet deal by Intel to bulk buy more of them for use in a desktop and they can then refresh the iMac range as often as the MacBook Pro if they choose to.

4. Going with a smaller, cheaper to produce, 4.5k Retina panel, eliminating the HDD, choosing a CPU and GPU that doesn't need as much of a cooling solution, and easy to VESA mount is my logical basis for an iMac Air. It keeps the price reasonably sane while offering greater flexibility in mounting.

5. New product means Phil Schiller doesn't have to compare last year's benchmarks to this year's.


So here's my range:

2 SKUs of 21.5" iMac, an October 2020 refresh (no T2) but keeping the Coffee Lake B CPU (shared with the Mini). I would suggest that the base model non retina goes away, and the mid tier and top tier 21.5" become the new base spec and top tier - effectively with $200 price cut.

3 SKUs of 24" 4.5k iMac Air in October 2020. T2 CPU, 512Gb SSD on base and mid tier, 1Tb SSD on top model. Comet Lake H CPU - shared with MacBook Pro 16" - as a new model Apple can then set a new price point without having to stick with existing ones, I would suggest a $1499-$1599 starting price.

2 SKUs of 27" 5k iMac Pro this year. Base SKU emerges with lower spec GPU to hit a $4k price point thanks in part to reduced Intel prices as well. I'd launch that earlier than October to catch people who might have prevaricated over a refreshed iMac by comparison. If there's to be a redesign too then bringing back the RAM access door would be nice.
 
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The Mac mini 2020 appears to be a 2018 mode with storage doubled, I wasn't expecting Apple to refresh until the model was 2 years old. As it is 18 months appears to be on the early side. The 2019 iMac is only 12 months old at this point so certainly would not expect a refresh given its recent history pointing at 18 month refreshes.

The 'storage issue' pertains to how Apple would progress from offering 1Tb+ HDD/Fusion Drive to going SSD only in the perception of consumers.

For Apple, the average Joe might get a bit confused if the 1Tb storage minimum across the range is suddenly replaced by 256Gb SSD in models they come to know and 'love'.

On that reasoning, if you eliminate the 21.5" and 27" iMac and create a new product, people are more willing to accept a 'drop' in storage capacity because they can't compare like with like any more.

The marketing reasoning behind the iMac Pro is that it's a 'new product' but it's not a problem as 1Tb SSD is obviously plenty of storage.

In effect a 24" 4.5k iMac Air is a new product. People will be more inclined to accept a 256Gb base storage without it being a stumbling block based on expectations of the previous model because there isn't one.

On that same basis, I argue that keeping the 21.5" iMac around, with Fusion Drives, as an entry level SKU makes sense as transitional model much like Apple kept non retina 21.5" models around.

And by extension Apple continue to order the 8th generation Coffee Lake B CPUs that are fuelling the Mac mini to potentially keep that model going till, say, Q1 2022 which would be close to the discontinue date of the 8th gen desktop CPUs.

But what about the Comet Lake S CPUs which we think will be going into desktop Macs? Let's hope that they will because that means that Intel are producing suitable B variants for Apple but I was thrown off by the unexpected refresh of the Mac mini. If it was getting Comet Lake S in October I'd have been minded to leave the Mini for another 6 months assuming that was the plan.

The fact that the 2019 iMac hasn't so far received a refresh is also a curiosity but having looked at the storage options there's probably little that Apple would want to do with that and it makes even less sense if they then refreshed it again 6 months later with a major update as the 2019 model would only have been out for 12 months to date and iMacs have generally been on an 18 month cycle in recent generations.

But then you look at what Apple have to do to get the iMac to T2:

a. Increase price to deal with T2 CPU
b. Switch from Fusion drive to SSD (means more cost, even though NAND is cheap enough for Apple to double storage options in models from 16" MacBook Pro to Mac mini and various iPads)
c. Figure out how to explain why 256Gb of SSD has replaced 1Tb Fusion Drive, despite 'costing more' - 512Gb sounds more likely at an even greater cost.
d. Hope that Intel have suitable B variant CPU (ideally Comet Lake S) they are willing to offer and can promise the same in the future if not with every generation then with every other one.

Apple did this with the Mac mini by virtually doubling the price of the entry level while removing the high capacity hard drive for a small SSD.

Apple probably have price points to hit and adding T2 and SSD probably couldn't be done without pushing the price up despite Apple's good deals on NAND.

A 27" iMac probably deserves to start with 512Gb SSD as a high ticket item (on a par with how the 16" MacBook Pro starts), and add the cost of a T2 in there and you could be adding $500 across the board to 27" iMacs on current price and that's before Intel confirm that they'll do a B variant Comet Lake.

Despite Apple's hedging and buying power in NAND I think that's still a $300 uplift making the base 27" iMac break the $2k limit with top SKU possibly over $2700.

Ironically, the top SKU 27" iMac looks like it would go to 512Gb SSD with no extra cost but I reckon it will come with 1Tb SSD, on the basis that it's currently 2Tb Fusion Drive, for perhaps a $200-$300 uplift.

Of course, Apple may not want to push the price up, so the way they bring it down is to make do with a smaller screen as part of a redesign package.


Here's my reasoning:

1. Intel haven't confirmed that B variants of the Comet Lake S CPUs will be available. And Apple probably already know what the long terms plans are so might decide to skip that if Intel said they wouldn't be doing any more in the future. Apple did this with Skylake which had a version with Iris Pro 580. The MacBook Pro 15" 2016 simply went to a discrete GPU on both SKUs. The delayed mid 2017 Skylake iMacs went with a mobile Kaby Lake CPU for the entry level which is still on sale in the 21.5" form factor!

2. Desktop SKU orders may be on a downward trajectory so Apple probably couldn't order as many CPUs as they would have (and this is before a potential coronavirus related downturn) - some of the iMac buyers may have bought iMac Pros, others may have bought laptops - the 16" MacBook Pro with the magic keyboard being a strong sales driver. Apple could decide to consolidate CPU orders.

3. The H series 45w CPUs will always be suitable for Apple due to the 16" MacBook Pro. It then makes you wonder if Apple could negotiate a very sweet deal by Intel to bulk buy more of them for use in a desktop and they can then refresh the iMac range as often as the MacBook Pro if they choose to.

4. Going with a smaller, cheaper to produce, 4.5k Retina panel, eliminating the HDD, choosing a CPU and GPU that doesn't need as much of a cooling solution, and easy to VESA mount is my logical basis for an iMac Air. It keeps the price reasonably sane while offering greater flexibility in mounting.

5. New product means Phil Schiller doesn't have to compare last year's benchmarks to this year's.


So here's my range:

2 SKUs of 21.5" iMac, an October 2020 refresh (no T2) but keeping the Coffee Lake B CPU (shared with the Mini). I would suggest that the base model non retina goes away, and the mid tier and top tier 21.5" become the new base spec and top tier - effectively with $200 price cut.

3 SKUs of 24" 4.5k iMac Air in October 2020. T2 CPU, 512Gb SSD on base and mid tier, 1Tb SSD on top model. Comet Lake H CPU - shared with MacBook Pro 16" - as a new model Apple can then set a new price point without having to stick with existing ones, I would suggest a $1499-$1599 starting price.

2 SKUs of 27" 5k iMac Pro this year. Base SKU emerges with lower spec GPU to hit a $4k price point thanks in part to reduced Intel prices as well. I'd launch that earlier than October to catch people who might have prevaricated over a refreshed iMac by comparison. If there's to be a redesign too then bringing back the RAM access door would be nice.
My point was the Mac mini hasn’t been refreshed. Dropping the 128GB SKU isn’t a refresh, nor are price drops, which have already happened twice last year.

A Comet Lake refresh is what I expect, maybe 3-6 months after introduction of the S-series. Intel will make a “B” variant if Apple will buy it. Apple wasn’t interested in 9th gen 65W parts, they were introduced too soon after the 2018 mini release.

I still see no reason to drop the 27” iMac. The 256 GB SSD version is currently $1,899, they could add the T2 and drop it to $1,799. The 2018 mini didn’t really get a price increase compared to the 2014 model, they just eliminated cheaper SKUs.
 
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Holy moly that’s a long reply...... ;)

And there's a couple of lines in it about the Mac mini too. :)

I'll try a TLDR from the Mini point of view.

Kaby Lake desktop CPUs, as used in the 2017 iMac, were discontinued late last year and will become unavailable later this year.

In all seriousness, I was not expecting an upgrade to Comet Lake S until October. The early spec bump allows Apple to leave the Mini until October 2021, or even March 2022 when I expect that Coffee Lake will be discontinued.

At this point Intel's 10nm process may even be launched by then.

Back to the point though. The mini could be destined for a new CPU but keeping the existing Coffee Lake CPU to me suggests the Coffee Lake CPU is staying in the iMac in some form for maybe another 18 months and this could in turn affect the choice of CPU going into the Mini in due course.


My point was the Mac mini hasn’t been refreshed. Dropping the 128GB SKU isn’t a refresh, nor are price drops, which have already happened twice last year.

A Comet Lake refresh is what I expect, maybe 3-6 months after introduction of the S-series. Intel will make a “B” variant if Apple will buy it. Apple wasn’t interested in 9th gen 65W parts, they were introduced too soon after the 2018 mini release.

I still see no reason to drop the 27” iMac.

Apple never drop prices, It's part of their plan to retain residual value in the product and it's worked for years. I don't think they only dropped the 128Gb SKU, they merely created 2 new ones with double the storage - remember that the bottom SKU is i3 and the top one is i5.

What I reiterate is that it's really early for Apple to be doing it unless the next Mini is going to be October 2021 with a 10NM Intel CPU and Apple just bought some delay time with this refresh.

There's no documentation from Apple to describe an 'Early 2020 Mac mini' yet though. That page hasn't been updated either.

My argument in my earlier post was Apple may have looked at the sales trajectory of desktops vs laptops, maybe Intel get involved too, and thought that they could consolidate on the H series CPUs to feed into the 16" MacBook Pro, Mac mini, and iMac (Air) at the same time. The difference would be enclosures, cooling, and the GPU used.

We'd have no discrete GPU for the mini, AMD Pro 5300M and Pro 5500M for the MacBook Pro, and then 5600 and 5700 as additional options for the iMac.

That TLDR got away from me a bit :oops:

EDIT

Another thing came to me - what if Apple found it to be no longer worthwhile to order in 128Gb SSD parts for the Mini and iMac? And the 256Gb and 512Gb were cheap enough for them to hand out the upgrade for free?
 
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But what if Intel went to Apple and said they wouldn't be doing B-Series 65w CPUs due to potentially dwindling Apple orders and instead offered them 45w H CPUs (the same as will be in the 2020 MacBook Pro 16") at good price due to consolidation? And what about the Xeon W-10885M which recently emerged?

A Mac Mini with a Xeon Mobile CPU could be an interesting proposition - Mac Mini Pro?

Moving the Mini from desktop to laptop CPUs might not be a bad idea. The chips are designed to be soldered like the B-Series desktop chips so they would fit in the existing case and the lower TDP (45W vs. 65W) would mean the thermal design would be more effective. I also believe the laptop parts have better iGPU performance then the B-series, which sacrifice that for better compute performance.

So that would mean a Comet Lake-H CPU would not be as fast in compute as a "Comet Lake-B", but Comet Lake-H is available in an i9 model with 8 cores and 16 threads so that could become the new top end model with the i7 and i5 slotting in underneath.


The Comet Lake CPUs are rumored to be released soon, but unfortunately it has a new socket, so the logic board will have to be redesigned. I expect we’ll see an update sometime before the end of the year.

A system board redesign would allow Apple to swap in the Titan Ridge Thunderbolt controller so the Mini could drive the Pro Display XDR at native 6K. And if they do swap out desktop CPUs for laptop models, that could improve the iGPU performance.


The 'storage issue' pertains to how Apple would progress from offering 1Tb+ HDD/Fusion Drive to going SSD only in the perception of consumers.

For Apple, the average Joe might get a bit confused if the 1Tb storage minimum across the range is suddenly replaced by 256Gb SSD in models they come to know and 'love'.

On that reasoning, if you eliminate the 21.5" and 27" iMac and create a new product, people are more willing to accept a 'drop' in storage capacity because they can't compare like with like any more.

And for those who were buying Fusion Drives to store more pictures and such, they can be upsold to the 2TB iCloud storage plan at $9.99 a month which makes Apple more money - one year of that is $120 vs. the $100 to go from a 1TB to 2TB Fusion Drive and the subscription revenue is ongoing rather than a one-time event so the more years those customers keep the iMac, the more money Apple makes.
 
With the current COVID-19 situation, I really don't see Apple coming out with a "new" Mac Mini for quite a while. As it is, with a lot of folks out of work (and most of them most likely have little, if any, savings and/or backup financial plan), there will be little, if any, money spent on various commodities. And in the US, the "stimulus" will not help that much, as folks want to save it up, or use it to pay current bills.
 
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With the current COVID-19 situation, I really don't see Apple coming out with a "new" Mac Mini for quite a while. As it is, with a lot of folks out of work (and most of them most likely have little, if any, savings and/or backup financial plan), there will be little, if any, money spent on various commodities. And in the US, the "stimulus" will not help that much, as folks want to save it up, or use it to pay current bills.

A true sentiment, and Apple won't be the only ones thinking about this. These posts should be a (hopefully) fun distraction from real world matters.

Perhaps the Mac mini 'refresh' was easy to do, the 128Gb and 256Gb i5 SKUs can be 'refurbished' or sent on to third party retailers for clearance. You'll see why I think the Mini might not now get an update until 2021/22 earlier in the thread.

Assuming the iMac doesn't get a surprise refresh in the next 4 days I could see that continue until October.

The iPad Pro and MacBook Air was probably was ready for launch - and Apple will probably accept that sales figures won't be that great.

The major two missing products would be AppleTV Mark 6 (which has been rumoured since last year), and the iPhone SE2/9.

Apple would want to get the AppleTV out the door, possibly with A12z, if improved gaming performance was hoped for - people will be wanting to use streaming services more than ever and Europe will be engaging heavily with streaming services and indoor entertainment. The European launch of Disney Plus is set to be on Tuesday 24th so a Monday release for AppleTV seems logical.

Similarly, the iPhone SE2/9 could be an important stimulus product for Apple so they'll be keen to get that out of the door.

The standard 10.2" iPad only got update in September last year yet has continued with the ageing A10 CPU but surely won't get a refresh until later this year and I'd assume that the A12 would be the ideal CPU for that.
 
A true sentiment, and Apple won't be the only ones thinking about this. These posts should be a (hopefully) fun distraction from real world matters.
Yeah, I know I get tired of just about every minute of everyday seeing various reports about this virus. Reminds me of 9/11, when that incident was all over the news (and rightly so) day in and day out. But after 3 days, it just got to me. Fortunately my wife and I were able to go see the excellent band Chicago at an outdoor concert, and that definitely helped.

So yes, these "wishful" thinking diversions are helpful.

Perhaps the Mac mini 'refresh' was easy to do, the 128Gb and 256Gb i5 SKUs can be 'refurbished' or sent on to third party retailers for clearance. You'll see why I think the Mini might not now get an update until 2021/22 earlier in the thread.
Understand. Even though I got my late 2018 Mac Mini i5 on February 1st (with a 256 gig SSD and 8 gig of Ram), the financial circumstances surrounding that purchase worked out very well.
 
And there's a couple of lines in it about the Mac mini too. :)

I'll try a TLDR from the Mini point of view.

Kaby Lake desktop CPUs, as used in the 2017 iMac, were discontinued late last year and will become unavailable later this year.

In all seriousness, I was not expecting an upgrade to Comet Lake S until October. The early spec bump allows Apple to leave the Mini until October 2021, or even March 2022 when I expect that Coffee Lake will be discontinued.

At this point Intel's 10nm process may even be launched by then.

Back to the point though. The mini could be destined for a new CPU but keeping the existing Coffee Lake CPU to me suggests the Coffee Lake CPU is staying in the iMac in some form for maybe another 18 months and this could in turn affect the choice of CPU going into the Mini in due course.




Apple never drop prices, It's part of their plan to retain residual value in the product and it's worked for years. I don't think they only dropped the 128Gb SKU, they merely created 2 new ones with double the storage - remember that the bottom SKU is i3 and the top one is i5.

What I reiterate is that it's really early for Apple to be doing it unless the next Mini is going to be October 2021 with a 10NM Intel CPU and Apple just bought some delay time with this refresh.

There's no documentation from Apple to describe an 'Early 2020 Mac mini' yet though. That page hasn't been updated either.

My argument in my earlier post was Apple may have looked at the sales trajectory of desktops vs laptops, maybe Intel get involved too, and thought that they could consolidate on the H series CPUs to feed into the 16" MacBook Pro, Mac mini, and iMac (Air) at the same time. The difference would be enclosures, cooling, and the GPU used.

We'd have no discrete GPU for the mini, AMD Pro 5300M and Pro 5500M for the MacBook Pro, and then 5600 and 5700 as additional options for the iMac.

That TLDR got away from me a bit :oops:

EDIT

Another thing came to me - what if Apple found it to be no longer worthwhile to order in 128Gb SSD parts for the Mini and iMac? And the 256Gb and 512Gb were cheap enough for them to hand out the upgrade for free?
There has been no early spec bump, and there’s nothing about the SSD changes that would lengthen the cycle for Mac mini upgrades. If you expected a refresh in October before this drop in storage pricing, you should still expect a refresh in October. (COVID-19 considerations aside.)

All that happened was Apple increased the base storage for the two default model configs, i3 and i5. (As a CTO, the base storage of the i7 processor upgrade also increased.)

The i3/i7 base storage went from 128GB to 256GB. The i5 base storage went from 256GB to 512GB. The $200 reduction in storage pricing rippled through the entire lineup, across all models and capacities.

re:lowering prices, Apple has constantly been lowering prices for the past year, not only on Mac mini, but on iMac and the laptops as well. All those price decreases have been due to drops in the price of NAND flash memory.

For instance, here is the pricing of the i3/8GB/2TB model since introduction:

$2,399 Oct 2018
$2,199 Mar 2019
$1,799 July 2019
$1,599 Mar 2020
 
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I like mac 's os but please look at this deal lenovo legion c730 mini gaming cube. 1449 usd

with a
  • 9th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-9700K Processor (3.60GHz, up to 4.90GHz with Turbo Boost, 12MB Cache)
  • NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 2070 8GB
  • 32GB DDR4 2666MHz

C730 apple is simply robbing you with the mac mini.


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  • Features
    Performance you have to see to believe

    Combining the latest NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2080 Series graphics, 9th Generation Intel® Core™ processors, PCIe SSD storage, and more, this PC delivers peak gaming performance to every corner of your home. Get lost in the captivating experience of up to 4K gaming beyond 60 frames per second (fps)— eliminating animation stutters and jerks— on your favorite gaming titles.
    lenovo-legion-y540-15-feature-3-fw.png.jpg


    NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ - graphics reinvented
    The Lenovo Legion C730 comes with the next generation of up to NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2080, powered by the all-new NVIDIA® Turing™ architecture to give you incredible new levels of gaming realism, speed, power efficiency, and immersion.
    A new way to experience games


    The new face of gaming
    The Lenovo Legion C730 offers the latest and greatest in gaming hardware, and you deserve to show it off a bit. With its 100% transparent top panel with integrated RGB system lighting, you can feast your eyes on the raw power of the C730, while customizing your PC to match your setup.
    lenovo-cube-legion-c-730-feature-1-IF-logo.jpg


    More cooling, for more power
    Combining the latest and greatest gaming technology means nothing if it can’t run cool under pressure. The Legion C730 is engineered with a dual-channel thermal system to combat and eliminate heat. Dedicated thermal channels for both your GPU and CPU keep both cooler, resulting in superior system temperatures, reduced fan noise, and better performance. You’ll get optimal system performance in any firefight, for a truly superior gaming experience.
    More cooling, for more power


    Action-packed inside
    Packing powerful components into a cube is no easy task. Dated motherboard designs have made fitting the highest-end components into compact designs almost impossible, but not with the Legion C730. By placing our motherboard in the center of the PC and the internal components on either side, we freed up space inside, allowing us to pack the most epic components into a size that’s perfect for anywhere in your home.
    lenovo-cube-legion-c730-feature-11.jpg

    Shown with a traditional Gaming Desktop Case (28L) on left vs the Legion C730 Cube (19L) on right.
    Easy access outside
    With the Legion C730, Lenovo set out to achieve one clear goal—overclocked gaming, anywhere. This PC not only delivers epic performance in a compact size, it comes with all the tools you need for easy upgrades to easily upgrade whenever you want to add the latest gaming tech. With its integrated carry handle, lightweight design, and one-press, tool-free upgrade system, the Legion C730 lets you game how you want, where you want.
    lenovo-cube-legion-c730-feature-8.jpg

    Ports vary by GPU. See tech specs for more details.
    Moving audio with Dolby Atmos®
    Dolby Atmos® creates an amazing headphone experience with audio that flows above and around you. You’ll feel like you’re inside the action as sound comes alive with richness and depth, and seems to move in three-dimensional space. Hear the enemy before you see them. Know exactly where the shots are coming from, to plan your next attack. Immersive and emotive, Dolby Atmos is sound you can feel—sound that creates a powerfully moving gaming experience to ensure victory for your next battle.
    lenovo-cube-legion-c730-feature-12.jpg

    Shown with Gaming Keyboard, Mouse, Headset and Monitor which are sold separately.

    Get your games here! Shop Lenovo's catalog of PC games and revel in the most popular titles like Red Dead Redemption II and Borderlands 3. Click here to shop now.
    na-legion-game-store-feature.jpg


    Rear-port connectivity

    The C730 features these ports and connectors at the rear of the PC (see corresponding image above):
      • 1. Display output *
      • 2. Display output *
      • 3. Display output *
      • 4. Audio-out
      • 5. 2 x USB 2.0 ports
      • 6. RJ-45
      • 7. 4 x USB 3.1** ports
  • * Display output defined by graphics card selection. Rear port selection may vary.

    lenovo-cube-legion-c-730-feature-9.jpg


    Front-port connectivity
    The C730 features these ports and connectors at the bottom-front of the PC (see corresponding image above):
    1. Microphone-in
    2. Headset port
    3. 2 x USB 3.1** ports

  • Front-port connectivity



  • Tech Specs
    Processor
    • 9th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-9700K Processor (3.60GHz, up to 4.90GHz with Turbo Boost, 12MB Cache)
    • 9th Generation Intel® Core™ i9-9900K Processor (3.60GHz, up to 5.0GHz with Turbo Boost, 16MB Cache)
    Operating SystemWindows 10 Home
    Graphics
    • NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 2070 8GB
    • NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 2080 8GB
    MemoryUp to 32GB DDR4 2666MHz (Supports up to 64 GB)
    Storage1TB HDD 7200RPM SATA + 512GB SSD PCIe
    MotherboardZ370 series chipset
    Power Supply500 watts
    AudioDolby Atmos® Audio and Sound Radar
    Dimensions (W x D x H)9.37" x 14.09" x 12" / 238 x 358 x 305 (mm)
    WeightStarting at 24.3 lbs (11 kg)
    VR ReadyNVIDIA® VR Ready
    ColorIron Grey
    PortsFront Ports
    • 2 x USB 3.1** (Gen 1)
    • 1 x Headset
    • 1 x Microphone-in
    Rear Ports
    • 4 x USB 3.1** (Gen 1)
    • 2 x USB 2.0
    • 1 x RJ45
    • 1 x Audio-out
    GFX Ports
    • Depends on graphics card selection
    Connectivity802.11 AC (2 x 2) + Bluetooth® 4.2
    Keyboard & MouseUSB keyboard and mouse
    Specification may vary depending upon region
    ** The actual transfer speed of the USB 3.1 [Gen 1] will vary and, depending on many factors, such as the processing capability of host and peripheral devices, file attributes and other factors related to system configuration and your operating environments, will be slower than a speed of [5 Gbit/s].
    • Models

      Part Number: 90JH005VUS
      List Price: $1,704.99
      Outlet Price:$1,449.24Savings: $255.75
      Ships in 1-3 business days
      Only 1 left in stock.
      ADD TO CART
      COMPARE MODELS

      • Processor
        Intel Core i7-9700K Processor (8C / 8T, 3.6 / 4.9GHz, 12MB)

      • Operating System
        Windows 10 Home 64 - English

      • Memory
        32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 2666Mhz UDIMM Memory

      • Hard Drive
        1TB Solid State Drive M.2

      • Warranty
        1 Year On-Site Warranty

      • Graphics
        Intel UHD Graphics 630 in processor and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

      • Form Factor
        Gaming Cube Iron Grey

      • Keyboard
        USB English Keyboard

      • Pointing Device
        Lenovo USB Preferred Pro Full Size Keyboard - English and Lenovo Calliope Mouse USB

      • WiFi Wireless LAN Adapters
        802.11 AC (2 x 2) + Bluetooth® 4.2


  • What annoys me is a top of the line mini with the i7 the 32gb ram option and 1tb nvme ssd is 2000 plus
And you get a rtx 2070 gpu and a newer intel processor. Apple simple refuses to build something like this. And now they solder the nvme 2 ssd into the mini.
 
Niceb8m8. Big, ugly, loud, power hog. I much rather a quiet, small and slick Mac Mini. Not to mention MacOS.

"but muh Hyundai is faster than your Mercedes" k bruh :)
 
There has been no early spec bump, and there’s nothing about the SSD changes that would lengthen the cycle for Mac mini upgrades. If you expected a refresh in October before this drop in storage pricing, you should still expect a refresh in October. (COVID-19 considerations aside.)

All that happened was Apple increased the base storage for the two default model configs, i3 and i5. (As a CTO, the base storage of the i7 processor upgrade also increased.)

The i3/i7 base storage went from 128GB to 256GB. The i5 base storage went from 256GB to 512GB. The $200 reduction in storage pricing rippled through the entire lineup, across all models and capacities.

re:lowering prices, Apple has constantly been lowering prices for the past year, not only on Mac mini, but on iMac and the laptops as well. All those price decreases have been due to drops in the price of NAND flash memory.

For instance, here is the pricing of the i3/8GB/2TB model since introduction:

$2,399 Oct 2018
$2,199 Mar 2019
$1,799 July 2019
$1,599 Mar 2020

Fair enough, I have seen the odd story about high volume SSD options coming down in price from time to time - but very rarely do the base specs noticeably improve to this degree though. As I mention in the edit, I might not be surprised if Apple can't get the 128Gb part in the i3 SKU any more (at a cost effective price anyway). It bodes well for how Apple could price the next iMac Pro which has 2 SSD sticks in RAID configuration.

If the price has come down that fast then has it come down enough for Apple to replace HDD with SSD? Once again I'd say that the way Fusion Drive and SSD is set up in the iMac 2019 there's little chance of a storage bump for now - it's more likely that it'll get a price cut because something has superseded it but certain 21.5" models are sticking around.
 
I like mac 's os but please look at this deal lenovo legion c730 mini gaming cube.

If my primary purpose in owning a computer is playing Windows video games, I wouldn't own a Mac period, much less a Mac Mini.

If my primary purpose in owning a computer is writing iOS code, then it does not matter how powerful that Lenovo model is, because it can't run Xcode.

Different markets.

Different focuses.

(For the record, I have an Alienware for playing PC games and my iMac 5K is for everything else I use a computer for.)


As I mention in the edit, I might not be surprised if Apple can't get the 128Gb part in the i3 SKU any more (at a cost effective price anyway). It bodes well for how Apple could price the next iMac Pro which has 2 SSD sticks in RAID configuration.

The Mac Mini's SSD storage is soldered to the system board so they could have continued with 128GB as the base storage if they wished (I made the same mistake in thinking it was socketed on an M.2 card).


If the price has come down that fast then has it come down enough for Apple to replace HDD with SSD?

I do think Apple is only keeping the HDD (either standalone or in a Fusion setup) in the iMac line to provide (multi)) terabyte-level storage to customers at a "reasonable" price point. And I believe this is because the iMac is the only Mac model where general customer demand is for such levels of storage and where a significant percentage of the customer base either does not have the technical know-how to use external storage (directly attached or networked) or put iMacs in locations where such storage is impractical (due to risk of theft, environmental issues, etc.).
 
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A system board redesign would allow Apple to swap in the Titan Ridge Thunderbolt controller so the Mini could drive the Pro Display XDR at native 6K. And if they do swap out desktop CPUs for laptop models, that could improve the iGPU performance.

I'm fairly certain the Mini is already using Titan Ridge controllers. The limitation for the XDR is that the iGPU output for this generation of CPU is limited to DP 1.2.
 
I'm fairly certain the Mini is already using Titan Ridge controllers. The limitation for the XDR is that the iGPU output for this generation of CPU is limited to DP 1.2.

Checked iFixit and it indeed is Titan Ridge, so the iGPU DisplayPort limitation makes sense as being the bottleneck.
 
I Simply don't want to pay in the 2-3000 range for a mac mini. I like its size but if I want decent storage ram and cpu
I would need 16gb ram 1tb ssd and the i5. The value is terrible the onboard gpu is terrible. It is frustrating that they still have it locked down. I run a 4k screen and would prefer graphics better then the 630 in the intel. I don't want an all in one. Most likely I will settle for the i3 with 8gb ram and 256gb ssd at 719. Mabye I will get a refurb and get lucky with it.
 
Has anyone noticed refurb 2018 models with original storage configurations have turned up in the UK refurb store? £589 UK for the i3/128Gb (£110 off a notional reduced price of £699) and £759 for the i5/256Gb (£140 off a notional £899). The retail price was reduced by £100 and £200 respectively (the retail price was and remains £799 and £1099) and then the refurb discount was applied.

The iPad Pro 11" from last year - which only got a mild refresh this year - is also similarly price reduced leaving the 64Gb model (now superseded by a 128Gb entry model) at £519 against a £769 retail price for the LIDAR equipped 128Gb model.
 
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That’s a really good price for Mac mini. I can only see the i5 at £759 now.

I would of been tempted to buy it after buying the i7 with 512GB SSD. Luckily I get Apple student discount which cost me £1160. If this wasn’t the case, I’d of cancelled and bought the refurb!
 
I Simply don't want to pay in the 2-3000 range for a mac mini. I like its size but if I want decent storage ram and cpu
I would need 16gb ram 1tb ssd and the i5. The value is terrible the onboard gpu is terrible. It is frustrating that they still have it locked down. I run a 4k screen and would prefer graphics better then the 630 in the intel. I don't want an all in one. Most likely I will settle for the i3 with 8gb ram and 256gb ssd at 719. Mabye I will get a refurb and get lucky with it.
I am with you, a low-end GPU in the mini would be great. Just something to power several high-res screens without having to worry about RAM, etc. I'd happily pay up to £2,000/$2,000 for a 'pro' mini.
 
No refurbished Mini's at all in the US store right now. But B&H Photo (large US supplier) has new 2018 base i3/128gb Mini's for $629, which would be 503 pounds at current exchange. Of course, US prices don't include tax, which in my state would raise the real price to $673 or 538 pounds.

I got my 2014 2.8ghz/8gb Mini for $500 (new) during a big sale at B&H last year. At that same time, Apple was selling the exact same configuration as a refurb for over $800! Now, that was unusual, due to the sale. However, several years before, I got another new 2014 Mini from B&H and the price was only about $25 more than a refurb from Apple, so I got the new one instead. Apple refurbs often aren't all that compelling in terms of price.

Also wish the mini had a discreet GPU, and this will likely push me to the iMac when I finally upgrade, especially since all my screens are very old. I really don't understand why the Mini can't be like an iMac without a screen. :)
 
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