Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

The Official Battlestar Galactica Thread : SPOILERS

Status
Not open for further replies.
dynamicv said:
Those four cannot be Cylons as previously seen. They may contain Cylon consciousness in human bodies, or be as I said before avatars for a higher-state Cylon being. But if they were around as regular skin-jobs 40 years ago when Tigh and Adama first met, that would put Anders/Tyrol etc. as the same age. Anders was famous in the Colonies. You don't think anyone would have seen him on TV at some point and said "I know him from years back, he must be about 70 years old by now"?
Click to expand...

Good points. The other thing to consider as well is that, well, the Cylons are machines. Very advanced ones, yes, but there's still the whole issue of them having emotions, souls, "consciousness" as you say, possibly being "higher beings" as you put it, etc. - how is this possible? Again, something which will be explained in Season 4 no doubt... :)

So along these lines, is it possible Starbuck is not a Cylon then? Simply a messenger or aide in everything? This wouldn't explain how she came back from the dead though... unless she hasn't...

... unless Leoben was right in Season 1. Before he was blown out the airlock he whispered to the President, "Adama is a Cylon." Granted this was no doubt to engage in some psychological warefare with her, make her doubt her leader, divide and conquer, instill paranoia, etc. etc. But what if he was right? And everyone assumed he was referring to Admiral Adama when in in fact that isn't the case - Lee Adama is the Cylon. Apollo. It appeared as though no one else saw Starbuck on Draedus at the end of the last epsiode, only Lee. Starbuck then spoke to Lee not through their headsets, ship-to-ship, but in a normal voice. Could it be that Starbuck is now in Lee's mind, just as Caprica 6 is in Baltar's mind? Of course this doesn't mean Lee is a Cylon though... after all, Baltar is probably not the final Cylon... but could Lee be the final Cylon? This wouldn't explain though how he had a childhood and his father would have remembered his birth, and so forth... But then again, we apparently know nothing about the circumstances surrounding the final five, what makes them special, etc., so who knows? :p

Just thought I'd throw that out there for fun... :D :cool:
 
Apollo, Tigh and Boomer all Cylons and Starbuck dead? Can you imagine what Glen Larson thinks of RDM? :D
 
This is what i'm thinking too. That there were skin-jobs before the cylons on the 12 colonies.

My idea though is that "original" cylons were invented years and years ago by the 13th tribe on cobol. Maybe the original reason they left cobol was because of these cylons. There could have been a war (or might have been) but they agreed to a truce where the 13th colony and the original cylons both had to leave for opposite sides of the universe. The remaining 12 colonies then left the war ravaged planet due to wide spread destruction after the war.

To make sure this war never happened again, or to stop them from going after the original cylons, the 12 colonies didn't keep any records of these cylons.

The 13th colony was so shocked by their creation that they went even further and let go of all their technology when they arrived on earth (why earth is so backwards).

With the new cylons, when the truce was called between them and the 12 colonies they left and happened to meet up with the original cylons (much further evolved over years, which would explain why they can now mimic humans and have a god) and saw this as an end to the truce they'd made years ago and came back to wreak vengence. They are angry that the humans thought they could recreate a new slave robot and the only way to stop this happening again is to wipe out all humans.

This is the plan.

Maybe the difference between the final 5 and the seven is the way they treat humans. The seven (new models based on new cylons bred by the original 5) think humans should be wiped out, whereas the final 5 are more ancient and think that they could all live together in harmony. This would be why they have been to the 12 colonies before.
 
~Shard~ said:
Starbuck then spoke to Lee not through their headsets, ship-to-ship, but in a normal voice.
Click to expand...

I rewatched the episode, and no. When the camera is on Starbuck, then it's her normal voice, but when the camera is on Apollo, while Starbuck is talking, you can here that it sounds like it's coming over the radio.
 
MarkCollette said:
I rewatched the episode, and no. When the camera is on Starbuck, then it's her normal voice, but when the camera is on Apollo, while Starbuck is talking, you can here that it sounds like it's coming over the radio.
Click to expand...

Ah, okay, I'll have to watch it again myself then - thanks for the clarification. :cool:
 
Re Cylon ages (since it seems RDM has spoken :) ):

* I assume the models can age, since they can be damaged in other ways and are physically close to human. They don't go through a childhood so they have some "starting age" maybe--they were assembled/designed in adult form.

* The four are different ages, so I'd say Tigh was created 45 or so years ago, and has aged alongside Adama. While Anders and the others could have been created more recently--10 years ago or whenever. (With artificial memories a la Dawn Summers, apparently.)

So, although Tigh would seem to prove that skinjobs aren't ALL so new after all, it does seem possible that all four could be cylons much the same as any other (but created by the never-seen "faction" or leaders or whatever the Final Five are). It's also very possible that they're NOT the same kind of model as the other 7, and so the rules are unknown.

BTW, here's my observation of the spoken lines from the song. Did I miss any? :)

* When Anders was first talking to Tyol on the flight deck, during the conversation Tyrol mumbled something vague about "some way out of here."

* Then when Racetrack yelled at Anders to get back to the raptor lesson, he muttered back, "No reason to get excited."

* When Tigh confronted Adama about the song, he said "I know, I don't quite understand it myself--there's too much confusion here."

* After Adama left the room, Tigh said "There must be some kinda way outta here."

* During the blackout, Tyrol said the same to himself: "Must be some kinda way outta here."

* Tigh (elsewhere) "replied": "Said the joker to the thief."

* Then Anders was sitting on his bunk and whispered, "There's too much confusion here."

* Then Tory was in the head doing the technicolor yawn, and then washed her hands and said in the mirror, "I can't get no relief."

Then they all met in the workout room and I don't think there are any more (spoken) lines of the song.
 
Of note: Starbuck is NOT flying the same viper after her return. If she was, then she'd have to be a vision or something paranormal. But she's not--it's a "new" old viper.

I checked ep 17 when her plane is destroyed and she's definitely flying her own viper, with her callsign painted on the side (you can see it after her windshield gets shot).

But in the finale, what she's flying is an old (mk II) viper just like Starbuck's own, but not beat up and dirty like Galactica's vipers have gotten. And it has NO callsign painted on it. Just plain white paint where the callsign would be. So it's some other viper. (Presumably given by, or stolen from, the Cylons, who got it the same way they get the raptors they occasionally use--from their massive attack on the colonies.)

So here's how I see it:

1. She ejects as her viper explodes--or maybe some time beforehand--even though Lee doesn't see it. (Her hand WAS on the eject lever.)

2. The heavy raider rescues her. (The Cylons never seem to use a heavy raider without a reason--they usually use regular raiders.) Or raider MIGHT have been a vision, and Lee might not have seen it--in which case, Starbuck is a cylon and was resurrected.

3. Either way, some weird cylon/human/spiritual who-knows-what goes on, probably involving Leoben and clues about the way to Earth (clues that include this nebula).

4. She steals or is given a viper, and escapes. She follows the clues to Earth--probably on her own.

5. She heads to the nebula where she knows Galactica was going, to rejoin the fleet. (If she didn't already know exactly where Galactica was going, she'd know it from whatever info led her to Earth.)

Of course the real story is #3--what happened and why will be interesting to learn.

So... I don't know if she's a Cylon or not, but I don't think she died. No spiritual visitations needed--she's back in the flesh.

I also think she's most likely not a Cylon--or at least, she didn't resurrect to prove it--because I bet they'd want to keep the mystery of who the final one is.
 
So, I was thinking - we really only know four of the final five at this point (or at least in whatever form Tigh, Anders, Tyrol and the chick represent) and the identity of the fifth is still up in the air. So, perhaps we won't get that final reveal for some time...

So, if all we really have now is the "final four" to deal with at this point in time, well, I was wondering how many Basestars there were at the end of the episode. The fleet seemed pretty fracked and I don't know how they can defend their entire fleet against a Cylon army, so perhaps they won't have to. Four new Cylons, perhaps 4 Basestars? Perhaps this isn't an attack fleet at all, rather each Basestar is being captained by one of the four models which have just been revealed and they come in peace. :eek: :D

Yeah, I know, not very likely at all, but I like to think outside of the box and speculate. :cool:
 
Everyone's a Cylon.Everyone.
The Cylons created the BSG group in order to help them find Earth.They used the Cylons with the most "human emotion,intellect and individuality" to portrait the members of BSG and have been "following" them ever since.

Doesn't anyone remember the next to last episode where Adama said "we're all cylons" ?.That scenario was mysteriously missing from the last episode.

A key to this is the music.It's in THE WHOLE SHIP.The ship itself is Cylon.The music they are hearing is broadcasting from Earth.

They are close.Starbuck will show them the way.
 
I think it was Tyrol who said "we're all Cylons." But I watch on iTunes so I get no previews. (Which is how I like it. That line is kind of a big spoiler!)

I do think it's possible that the Cylons come in peace--maybe relating to figuring out the next signpost to Earth, or maybe something to do with Starbuck's arrival--but they did launch a ton of raiders, which suggests that talks may have a threatening edge :)
 
Peace said:
The Cylons created the BSG group in order to help them find Earth.
Click to expand...

But then why do the Cylons continually try to destroy them? :p Just think back to Exodus - if it wasn't for the Pegasus, BSG would be destroyed. And this is but one example throughout the series. Why would the Cylons willingly destroy their best chance of finding Earth? What kind of "plan" is that? :p ;)
 
~Shard~ said:
But then why do the Cylons continually try to destroy them? :p Just think back to Exodus - if it wasn't for the Pegasus, BSG would be destroyed. And this is but one example throughout the series. Why would the Cylons willingly destroy their best chance of finding Earth? What kind of "plan" is that? :p ;)
Click to expand...

Perhaps warring factions inside the Cylon groups.
Remember a couple of Cylons have come over to the BSG side.Maybe the BSG group of cylons decided to go there own way..

Just theory :D
 
Peace said:
Perhaps warring factions inside the Cylon groups.
Remember a couple of Cylons have come over to the BSG side.Maybe the BSG group of cylons decided to go there own way..

Just theory :D
Click to expand...

Yep, could be. This could again explain the rift between the 7 models and the other 5. Hmm, but why 7 and 5, why not 6 and 6, that would be much more even and fair... :p ;) :D
 
As far as the Cylons' big "Plan," it seems to have changed.

Original plan: genocide--massive nuclear assault, assisted by numerous secret agents, both to collect info and to mop up afterwards. Motivations: revenge, self-defense (fear of human revenge someday) and holy war against the pagans. Also part of the plan: use survivors for breeding experiments. Motivation: religious.

Caprica Six and Boomer's new plan, which they persuaded the others to accept: co-existence. Which evolved into occupation and oppression and ultimately forced conversion to the Cylon religion. Motivation: ethical/religious (thou shalt not kill) followed by just religious (conversion). Result: still at war--the humans did not accept Cylon rule. Breeding plan remains--focussed on the lone success--Hera.

Post new-Caprica plan: settle on Earth. Motivation: religious again? Breeding plan also remains--Hera still important. Co-existence with humans is out the window--BUT the humans have Hera, and all parties want to protect her. (And Hera may be more than JUST the key to Cylons breeding as scripture tells them to.)

That's the plans of the regular Cylons--who are not always united in their approach. But what plans the final five may have is a mystery. They have hidden themselves from the others for SOME reason.

And there does seem to be a supernatural element--possibly guided by forces we'll find out about (even the final five) or maybe just mysterious. Anders said it had to be more than chance that he survived Caprica to join Kara on Galactica. I agree more then ever now. And so many Cylons on board Galactica for so long! Could be the hand of fate. Or, could be that the Cylons knew the one remaining low-tech Battlestar might become important. Then again, Pagasus too was infiltrated.

Plus there's the psychic element--some of it is just the way Cylons are (projecting) and some of it even THEY don't understand (internal Baltar, the shared dream about Hera). Is this just something to be revealed about Cylons, or is this too supernatural?

Also remember that the Cylons know more about Kobol history and the colonial religion than the humans do themselves. I suspect that secrets lurk in the distant past... which makes it interesting to think what the Caprica series might reveal about the Cylons' creation. I think they WERE created by man--that's the whole point of the spin-off--but did other forces, supernatural or from Kobol--(what WERE the gods of Kobol?)--make them more than they had been? And then we have a suspicious number of similarities between the colonials and Earth culture. Place names, names of gods... cigarettes... and now Dylan songs out there in space, received by Cylons. Are these coinicidences just something you have to accept and not think too hard about? That's what I always thought at first.

Now I think that Earth, Kobol, the Thirteenth Colony, the Cylons, the Final Five, the colonials, the Kobol religion, the Cylon religion, and all the psychic visions (Baltar, Six, Kara and Leoben, Three and the Hybrid, Roslin and Athena, the oracles) MIGHT just all tie together one day. In about another 2 seasons :eek:
 
Good summary nagromme. :cool:

One other thing to question is why did Rosalyn have the same visions of Hera in the Opera House as Athena and Caprica Six did? I accept the whole "projections" thing with the Cylons, but how the heck does Rosalyn fit into that then? Caprica Six said it herself, that it shouldn't be possible... What does this imply about Rosalyn then?
 
~Shard~ said:
Good summary nagromme. :cool:

One other thing to question is why did Rosalyn have the same visions of Hera in the Opera House as Athena and Caprica Six did? I accept the whole "projections" thing with the Cylons, but how the heck does Rosalyn fit into that then? Caprica Six said it herself, that it shouldn't be possible... What does this imply about Rosalyn then?
Click to expand...


She's a Cylon of course! Why do you think the blood from a Cylon cured her ( now recurrent ) Cancer ?
 
It isn't 7 against 5 anymore. It's 6 against 5, and chances are soon to be 6 against 6.
 
Peace said:
She's a Cylon of course! Why do you think the blood from a Cylon cured her ( now recurrent ) Cancer ?
Click to expand...

Of course, it all makes sense! ;) :D

As for her cancer, of course it had to come back. The prophecy spoke of a dying leader which would guide them to Earth and not see the final destination. She needs to have cancer in order to be that dying leader again.

Unless of course Adama is the leader they're referring to, and he dies before they reach Earth. :eek: ;) :D

dynamicv said:
It isn't 7 against 5 anymore. It's 6 against 5, and chances are soon to be 6 against 6.
Click to expand...

True, yes, I forgot about D'anna. And you believe one of the remaining 6 Cylons will defect? Which one, Leoben? ;)

Hey, and what's up with Simon? I believe we've seen him the least out of all the Cylons... it would be nice to see more of him...
 
~Shard~ said:
True, yes, I forgot about D'anna. And you believe one of the remaining 6 Cylons will defect? Which one, Leoben? ;)
Click to expand...
No, I just think D'anna will be back :)

Hey, and what's up with Simon? I believe we've seen him the least out of all the Cylons... it would be nice to see more of him...
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the actor that plays him is always busy with other commitments according to the Podcast.

Which reminds me, are they ever going to post the podcast for Crossroads Part II?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back