The Official Battlestar Galactica Thread : SPOILERS

[~Shard~]

They destroyed the Pegasus.

Well, they destroyed it in the original series as well, so you had to have a hunch it was going to happen sooner or later...

On that note, I rather like Hera myself (the reporter cylon).

You mean D'anna, as played by Lucy Lawless? Hera is Helo and Sharon's child, let's hope you don't like her in that way!

 

[clayj]

They destroyed the Pegasus.

I strongly suspect either A) They're going to find Earth and no one's going to be there, B) We're extinct or long gone to another galaxy/universe, C) The Cylons found it a long time ago and destroyed it.

On that note, I rather like Hera myself (the reporter cylon).

From March 14th:

Frankly, considering how long the Pegasus stuck around in the original series (2 episodes?), I'm surprised it's made it this long in the new series. It's inevitable that it will be lost.

And Hera is the name of the Cylon/human child... the reporter Cylon was named D'Anna in the episode where we learned she was Cylon.

 

[~Shard~]

Just beat ya to it clayj!

 

[clayj]

Just beat ya to it clayj!

Yeah, well I had to go hunting for my quote from way back in March. So I get bonus points for having called this a long time ago.

 

[emaja]

Given the general religious themes of the show, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "40 years in the desert" theme to the quest for Earth.

We all think we know the series ends with the discovery of Earth, but there are probably more than a few surprises in store for us. I am interested in seeing where (in time) Earth is if and when they find it. I do not think the timeframe has ever been established.

 

[~Shard~]

Yeah, well I had to go hunting for my quote from way back in March. So I get bonus points for having called this a long time ago.

Yes, quite true - full marks to you on that one.

 

[nagromme]

From March 14th:

And Hera is the name of the Cylon/human child... the reporter Cylon was named D'Anna in the episode where we learned she was Cylon.

And just to further confuse things, humans sometimes use one name to refer to multiple different Cylons. They refer to "Dorals" and "Brother Cavils" even though, really, there's no reason to think that more than one Cylon individual used each name. But all the 5s "inherited" the name Doral in the eyes of humans. (And it makes sense: we viewers do the same thing!)

Similarly, the only D'Anna that has used that name was the reporter, who we may or may not have seen since then... but that 3 is NOT the same 3 as the main character 3 now. She ("Caprica 3"?) is the one Caprica 6 hit with a rock. And yet Baltar refers to "Caprica 3" as D'Anna! They probably call all the 3's D'Annas now.

Then there's Leoben: he used that name the first time he was seen, and he HIMSELF has used it in future incarnations too. Plus he seems to know everyone. So I assume that all the Leobens we have seen (with speaking parts) really ARE the same individual Cylon from the miniseries.

The worst had to be when there were 3 distinct 6s in the show, all major characters! Internal 6, Caprica 6, and Gina! (And let us not forget Shelley Godfrey--yet another 6, who could not very well be any of the above!)

I have to give the actress credit: all 6s have the same base personality, yet she has a distinct performance for each. 6's expression alone is often enough to tell internal 6 from Caprica 6 from Gina. The Boomers/8s are not so distinct from performance alone. (If anything, the two are starting to criss-cross. And what DOES the name Galactica-Sharon mean anymore??)

 

[XNine]

Those three would eat you alive... especially Katee Sackhoff. (I like her better with the long hair.)

And I would love every second of it. Seriously, these chicks are absolutely awesome.

So, we got through the second disc the other night (of Season 2) and man oh man. This series just keeps getting more intriguing as it goes on. I'm thoroughly impressed with everything that they are doing.

No stupid Sci-fi clichés, like shields, cloaking, lasers, etc. The fact that the Vipers have those boosters all over them to control the direction it's flying? Awesome as hell.

If this show doesn't go to at least season 5, I will be pissed.

 

[~Shard~]

If this show doesn't go to at least season 5, I will be pissed.

I agree, but I honestly don't know if I would want to see it go much further than that. I think a truly good series is defined by when the writers/producers know when to quit - when the peak is, what timing makes sense and to identify (and subsequently prevent) when things might start turning a bit stale and lose their edge. Pretty much any series which goes beyond a certain point always seems to lose its freshness, originality and as a result, its impact. I hope that doesn't happen with BSG. End on a high note and keep the series "tight", that's what I say. With all due respect (and I mean that) I don't want it turning into a Stargate which goes on for 10 seasons.

 

[Marble]

That's true, especially for a show with a single strong storyline like BSG. I wonder if Moore has a game plan for the whole series arc, like Straczynski's Babylon 5. A lot of the "prophecy" we've seen so far reminds me of that (excellent, and time-limited) series.

 

[vniow]

That's true, especially for a show with a single strong storyline like BSG. I wonder if Moore has a game plan for the whole series arc, like Straczynski's Babylon 5.

I think that's a great example of Sci-fi done right. The shows like that which are ore like real-life dramas which happen to be set in space really appeal to me whereas Star Trek and Stargate types which are more pure fantasy leave a bit less of an emotional impact. Its really good to actually relate to these characters even if its set in a fictional future(?) as opposed to the often over used storylines of the two latter ones.

Both are entertaining in their own right but shows like BSG really pull you in to the reality of the situation. You watch it and you're like those are actual people with actual problems.

Having a consistent mythology like B5 and BSG is really important too I think. In ST there's so many canonical issues and so many unbelievable situations that its hard to pay attention to the actual story of the show.

 

[Queso]

Having a consistent mythology like B5 and BSG is really important too I think. In ST there's so many canonical issues and so many unbelievable situations that its hard to pay attention to the actual story of the show.

I so agree with this. Trek has repeating storylines, major plot inconsistencies and an over-reliance on made-up technology to get the characters out of trouble (e.g. DNA replication ). It gives the shows a "and then he woke up and it was all a dream" type get out clause to finish the episodes, which the writers then flog to death rather than thinking through proper results for the characters' actions. BSG and B5 don't do that. When their people mess up, it has consequences.

 

[hulugu]

I so agree with this. Trek has repeating storylines, major plot inconsistencies and an over-reliance on made-up technology to get the characters out of trouble (e.g. DNA replication ). It gives the shows a "and then he woke up and it was all a dream" type get out clause to finish the episodes, which the writers then flog to death rather than thinking through proper results for the characters' actions. BSG and B5 don't do that. When their people mess up, it has consequences.

BSG does an interesting job of ignoring the potential fantasy parts of their world, ie whatever BSG uses to 'jump', the actual differences between Cylons and humans, BSGs gravity, etc. without seeming false.

Star Trek has always had the dual problem of trying to explain too much, witness the number of times someone yammered on about tachyons, and yet relying on the fantastic elements to finish stories, especially time-travel.

 

[Queso]

Star Trek has always had the dual problem of trying to explain too much, witness the number of times someone yammered on about tachyons, and yet relying on the fantastic elements to finish stories, especially time-travel.

Exactly. In The Next Generation you would get entire scenes that were nothing more than this technobabble, normally whenever that LeForge character was on screen. It's extremely dull to listen to and allows the writers to avoid properly developing the plot or characters beyond a superficial basic story. The fact that BSG doesn't do it leaves so much more airtime for really getting into the depth of the tale. We don't need to know how FTL drives work, we just need to see that they do so the fleet can use them when they need to.

It's the same thing with the cars and trucks. Rather than waste time and budget coming up with Logan's Run style hover vehicles, BSG gets Hummers. Brilliant.

 

[hulugu]

Exactly. In The Next Generation you would get entire scenes that were nothing more than this technobabble, normally whenever that LeForge character was on screen. It's extremely dull to listen to and allows the writers to avoid properly developing the plot or characters beyond a superficial basic story. The fact that BSG doesn't do it leaves so much more airtime for really getting into the depth of the tale. We don't need to know how FTL drives work, we just need to see that they do so the fleet can use them when they need to.

It's the same thing with the cars and trucks. Rather than waste time and budget coming up with Logan's Run style hover vehicles, BSG gets Hummers. Brilliant.

Yep. When BSG makes mistakes (sound in space) it's counter-acted by the fairly realistic manuevers of Vipers and Raptors. And guns are bullet-chuckers and not the 'laser-guns' of the original, although the side-arms make an interesting sound.

I'm up late and so I just watched the latest show again, truly seeing the BSG jump into the atmosphere, dead-drop until the Vipers were away, and then jump away while leaving a vacuum was just cool as hell.
And, the Pegasus died well, ramming a Basestar at full-steam.

Hoo-frackin-rah.

 

[Queso]

Yep. When BSG makes mistakes (sound in space) it's counter-acted by the fairly realistic manuevers of Vipers and Raptors.

The pilots inside the Vipers would hear their own guns, as the sound would be transported into the cockpit by vibration. They wouldn't hear the Cylon Raiders though. That's a bit wrong.

Look at me. I'm going all LeForge

 

[emaja]

The pilots inside the Vipers would hear their own guns, as the sound would be transported into the cockpit by vibration. They wouldn't hear the Cylon Raiders though. That's a bit wrong.

Well, they can only take so much from "Firefly."

Shakey-cam and lens flares? Check. Realistic characters with a voluminous backstory to fill? Check. No sound in space? Let's just muffle it instead.

BSG is a good drama that just happens to be set in space. The characters are complex and flawed, the story arcs are long and involved, and while there is a certain amount of "wow" technology, for the most part it is very believeable. Other than FTL drives, it looks like something we could do right now.

 

[telecomm]

Well, they can only take so much from "Firefly."

Shakey-cam and lens flares? Check. Realistic characters with a voluminous backstory to fill? Check. No sound in space? Let's just muffle it instead.

I think we can perhaps trace these a bit farther back than Firefly.

At any rate, I think Firefly contrasts very nicely with BSG. They're both well-executed sci-fi focusing to some extent on character development, but I think that's about where there comparison ends. I always thought that Firefly was one of best-executed, comedic space westerns, while BSG is really more of a war epic, meant to be taken more seriously. It seems that a lot of contemporary sci-fi is tongue-in-cheek, and Firefly fits into that category. BSG, on the other hand, is serious, but, fortunately, can be taken more seriously than some of the other offerings in this vein.

 

[emaja]

I think we can perhaps trace these a bit farther back than Firefly.

At any rate, I think Firefly contrasts very nicely with BSG. They're both well-executed sci-fi focusing to some extent on character development, but I think that's about where there comparison ends. I always thought that Firefly was one of best-executed, comedic space westerns, while BSG is really more of a war epic, meant to be taken more seriously. It seems that a lot of contemporary sci-fi is tongue-in-cheek, and Firefly fits into that category. BSG, on the other hand, is serious, but, fortunately, can be taken more seriously than some of the other offerings in this vein.

Oh of course they go back further than Firefly, but that was a show that used them for great stylistic effect better than was done before. I think it is pretty clear that they are aiming for the same audience - a smart one who isn't taken in by all the shiny stuff and who wants a real story with real characters who have real flaws and whose actions have far reaching consequences.

I think it is rather clear from Serenity that Firefly was not as Whedon really wanted it to be. The movie is far darker than the show and much, much more serious and threatening.

I wish Firefly would have found a different network that had a different threashold for measuring success. Then we would have seen a lot more smart sci-fi sooner.

 

[hulugu]

Well, they can only take so much from "Firefly."

Shakey-cam and lens flares? Check. Realistic characters with a voluminous backstory to fill? Check. No sound in space? Let's just muffle it instead.

Lots of people complained about the shakey-cam in BSG, but I really like it, especially in the space scenes where it seems like the camera is actually in a drone or fighter. Sometimes it's flies just beneath a ship, sometimes it seems to stop, track and object and then zoom it, other times it spins away from an explosion or near miss. Kudos to the effects team, and also to whomever put together the Viper gun camera footage for Scar which just looked fantastic and also enhanced the story-line to an amazing degree.

Other than FTL drives, it looks like something we could do right now.

Nope, gravity is a big problem, as is inertia, the Cylons ability to transmit themselves over great distances beyond the speed of light, etc. Plus we can't build a fragile space station in orbit much less something as big as a Battlestar. But, it certainly feels real enough.

 

[vniow]

Nope, gravity is a big problem, as is inertia, the Cylons ability to transmit themselves over great distances beyond the speed of light, etc. Plus we can't build a fragile space station in orbit much less something as big as a Battlestar. But, it certainly feels real enough.

And that's where you step back and think to yourself that it is fantasy and not everything is going to seem realistic as our current understanding allows. That's what I like about this show, it feels real enough to where you can relate to it and doesn't go off in a distracting tangent but it leaves enough to the imagination that keeps you wondering after the show's over.

 

[clayj]

[pulls pin, holds spoon in place]

Since someone mentioned it above...

Babylon 5 is still better than BSG... so far, anyway. JMS is a genius and he did write down the entire main story before they even shot the pilot episode.

[tosses grenade, runs]

 

[2nyRiggz]

I have to say that i'm impressed by BSG. I rank it right up there with FireFly. I'm really enjoying the storylines and the visuals.

Lucy Lawless is lovleyful.


Bless

 

[nagromme]

Well, they can only take so much from "Firefly."

Shakey-cam and lens flares? Check. Realistic characters with a voluminous backstory to fill? Check. No sound in space? Let's just muffle it instead.

I think BSG can get away with sound in a vacuum. It's documentary-style with "real cameras," mounted on fighter wings etc. (Although I think of it more like filmmakers making and old-style war movie... it's not literally Colonial filmmakers documenting everything, or we'd never see Cylons at home!)

Now, someone making a real documentary about space fighters WOULD want to capture sound, whatever technology might be needed to do it. I think the filmmakers might use very simple solutions: put mics in the Vipers and Raiders, and with a signal between mic and camera, compare the speed so that a nice doppler effect can be processed. No worse that artificially boosting contrast of a night scene, really--and it adds to the viewers grasp of the action in a useful way.

I think it is rather clear from Serenity that Firefly was not as Whedon really wanted it to be. The movie is far darker than the show and much, much more serious and threatening.

Actually, from what Whedon says about Firefly on the DVDs etc., I think it WAS very much his actual vision realized. The movie got darker for 3 other reasons, I think:

1. The series didn't have TIME to grow dark--but I'm sure darkness was planned. Look at Buffy and Angel to see light turn dark again and again.

2. A movie calls for weightier content--from action to tragedy--in order to be more than just "an episode on a big screen."

3. A season finale is often a heavier thing than the build-up. Serenity was like Firefly's season 1 finale. (Or even series finale, but we hope not!)

Re BSG vs. Firefly: they are tied for quality in my book, but are very different kinds of show. Firefly never got the time to get as long and in-depth as BSG, and was always going to have more humor (though BSG surely has some too). If FF was on every week, I'd look forward to the next ep just as much as BSG. Sadly, that did not happen, so my hopes must be pinned on BSG for now.

Re "drama that happens to be in space," both FF and BSG are good examples, BUT I would say that BSG is ALSO really, really good hard-core sci-fi of the kind never before seen outside of a thick book. The sci-fi elements of FF were tangential, and that's great, but BSG is a different animal. Look at the philosophical depth of the Cylon perspective(s), the implications of reincarnation, the societal struggles of a human race suddenly decimated, etc. -- these are in-depth sci-fi at its best.

Every sci-fi show addresses some issues like that--from Star Trek to Firefly--but BSG does so with unique literary depth and subtlety. And amazingly, does so without hitting you over the head with a ton of exposition. Look at how well we understand how the Cylons think now (and disagree with each other)--and the things we still wonder about. That all came through with surprisingly little "explanation." Just well-written, well-acted performances.

In other words, BSG has done WITHOUT narration what nearly any classic sci-fi novel can rely on narration for. Nicely done.

[pulls pin, holds spoon in place]

Since someone mentioned it above...

Babylon 5 is still better than BSG... so far, anyway. JMS is a genius and he did write down the entire main story before they even shot the pilot episode.

[tosses grenade, runs]

I'll be sure to check out B5 one day. I like the long-arc format for storytelling--it's what a TV show can do BETTER than a 2-hr movie. I watched B5 a little for the FX (groundbreaking in its day, as BSG's FX are today) but only a couple times. It has too much of the corny Trekesque foreheads-and-hairdos alien thing to compare to BSG, but cheesiness does not stop me from appreciating OTHER parts of a show. I sometimes watch Doctor Who And I can still appreciate TNG and DS9 too.

Some things just seem cheesy and dated with the passage of time (including B5's hairdos and 3D FX) but you can get past that and appreciate things about them anyway. I'm hoping B5 is like that for me.

And I am aware that B5 was the first to do realistic maneuvering thrusters like BSG's Vipers have

I'm up late and so I just watched the latest show again, truly seeing the BSG jump into the atmosphere, dead-drop until the Vipers were away, and then jump away while leaving a vacuum was just cool as hell.

On second viewing, I noticed that dirt around the actors at ground level was actually sucked upwards by the wind sucking toward the void. Not bad!

 

[XNine]

I agree, but I honestly don't know if I would want to see it go much further than that. I think a truly good series is defined by when the writers/producers know when to quit - when the peak is, what timing makes sense and to identify (and subsequently prevent) when things might start turning a bit stale and lose their edge. Pretty much any series which goes beyond a certain point always seems to lose its freshness, originality and as a result, its impact. I hope that doesn't happen with BSG. End on a high note and keep the series "tight", that's what I say. With all due respect (and I mean that) I don't want it turning into a Stargate which goes on for 10 seasons.

If you were a chick, I'd include you in on my little foursome with the BSG chicks.

I completely agree.

Season 5 would probably be a good place to end it. I saw one long episode for Season 3, with some guy suicide bombing himself at the academy. I don't know all of the surrounding story, but I can't imagine the show goes on much longer than 5 while maintaining it's sexification.