The Official Mitchell Report Thread

[Unspeaked]

I didn't realize you knew Andy Pettitte personally! You can't assume to know the character of someone you only see on TV. You just can't know who would be capable of doing anything. Even if you DO know someone personally, you can still be surprised to learn that a good friend could cheat on his wife or steal from his employer.

After a quick scan of the report, it looks like this Radomski guy was a link to a lot of players. He was with Toronto when Clemens was there and moved to the Yankees at the same time Clemens did.

Todd Hundley allegedly brought it with him from the Mets and got Lo Duca into it, who hooked up Kevin Brown and Eric Gagne. This, by the way, is a plausible explanation for how quickly the Dodgers dumped all of these players as soon as they were able. Hundley tanked right after he came over to LA, but the others might have been thought to be overachieving and on the verge of permanent breakdown.

I noticed that myself; it's very clear there were pockets of players that were on teams together that started the use, and either moved to other teams alone or with trainers who spread the use.

Of course, we don't know how complete this list is. It could be that it only looks so chart-like because there was only a limited amount of people willing to provide evidence, and it pointed back to those in their own circles.

 

[tWoSour]

The question is not when they were on the team but when were they using. How many of those players wore the Red Sox uniform and took steroids.

as opposed to Roger using when the Yankees were winning championships*

 

[MacNut]

as opposed to Roger using when the Yankees were winning championships*

And how many did Roger win, 2.

And now the Bud Selig excuse....rebuttal.

 

[Counterfit]

Hmm, reading through looking for Red Sox references, came across this about Gagné:

When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official
made specific inquiries about Gagné’s possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 email to
a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, “Have you done any digging on Gagne?
I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his
medical?”425 The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded,
Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a
checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues.
Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body
and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max
effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and
without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back
durability and ability to throw average while allowing the change-
up to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will
follow Gagne . . .426

That explains why he sucked in Boston. But you'd have to wonder why Theo went for that trade after hearing that. Gabbard is probably going to be a decent starter, and Murphy's not going to be too bad either I bet.

Similar stuff about Brendan Donnelly, minus the talent.

Mo Vaughn is reported to have first contacted Radonski in '03 while missing the season with an ankle injury. (Is this an okay spot for a "LOL METS"?)

 

[Unspeaked]

Mo Vaughn is reported to have first contacted Radonski in '03 while missing the season with an ankle injury. (Is this an okay spot for a "LOL METS"?)

I don't buy it, not with the way he played in Boston and his career tanking thereafter.

I also can't believe Nomar's not on the list, though that doesn't mean he's clean.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Hmm, reading through looking for Red Sox references, came across this about Gagné:

That explains why he sucked in Boston.

He'd also had two elbow surgeries and back problems.

 

[tWoSour]

And how many did Roger win, 2.

And now the Bud Selig excuse....rebuttal.

I think you meant 2*.....don't worry, I fixed it for you

 

[MacNut]

I think you meant 2*.....don't worry, I fixed it for you

How many did Gagne win with the Red Sox, 1.

Here is the full list.

According to the Mitchell Commission report, here are players mentioned and how they are linked to performance enhancing substances:

Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case."

Marvin Benard Page 127
Barry Bonds Page 128
Bobby Estalella Page 130
Jason Giambi Page 131
Jeremy Giambi Page 133
Benito Santiago Page 134
Gary Sheffield Page 135
Randy Velarde Page 137

Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him.""

Lenny Dykstra Page 149
David Segui Page 150
Larry Bigbie Page 152
Brian Roberts Page 158
Jack Cust Page 159
Tim Laker Page 159
Josias Manzanillo Page 161
Todd Hundley Page 163
Mark Carreon Page 163
Hal Morris Page 164
Matt Franco Page 165
Rondell White Page 165
Roger Clemens Page 166
Andy Pettitte Page 175
Chuck Knobloch Page 175
Jason Grimsley Page 177, 249
Gregg Zaun Page 179
David Justice Page 181
F.P. Santangelo Page 182
Glenallen Hill Page 183
Mo Vaughn Page 186
Denny Neagle Page 187
Ron Villone Page 188
Ryan Franklin Page 190
Chris Donnels Page 190
Todd Williams Page 194
Phil Hiatt Page 194
Todd Pratt Page 195
Kevin Young Page 195
Mike Lansing Page 196
Cody McKay Page 197
Kent Mercker Page 198
Adam Piatt Page 199
Miguel Tejada Page 201
Jason Christiansen Page 205
Mike Stanton Page 205
Stephen Randolph Page 206
Jerry Hairston, Jr. Page 207
Paul LoDuca Page 208
Adam Riggs Page 211
Bart Miadich Page 212
Fernando Vina Page 213
Kevin Brown Page 214
Eric Gagne Page 217
Mike Bell Page 219
Matt Herges Page 221
Gary Bennett, Jr. Page 222
Jim Parque Page 223
Brendan Donnelly Page 224
Chad Allen Page 225
Jeff Williams Page 227
Howie Clark Page 228
Nook Logan Page 229

 

[nbs2]

I'll have to head over to ESPN to verify, but didn't Raffy say that he got his stuff from Miggy? And didn't the world villfy him for suggesting someone so honorable and upright as Tejada could have done that?

Maybe he was telling the truth. Maybe it was unintentional, and he thought it was whatever he said he thought it was. Maybe we rushed to attack the wrong guy and defend the wrong guy.

 

[windowsblowsass]

when it comes own to it the Mitchell report was pointless, none of the players will be punished because everything is hearsay the checks can be easily explained away because clubhouse guys often get things for players. i was disappointed to hear lenny dykestra, he was always my favorite player when he was on the phillies. I think if this opens doors then pujols will eventually be named by someone i am very convinced he is juicing. the only player i dont have doubts about is Kenneth Griffey JR.

 

[IJ Reilly]

The report won't be pointless unless the reform recommendations fail to be adopted. Notice how many of them are directed at the office of the Commissioner. It's not about punishment. It's about understanding the scope of the problem, and fixing it.

 

[tWoSour]

How many did Gagne win with the Red Sox, 1.

compare what Roger meant to the NY championships* to what Gagne meant to the Sox championship. Roger was a big part in winning, while the Sox won in spite of Gagne.

But keep telling yourself whatever you need to, so that you can celebrate your championships*

 

[Teh Don Ditty]

Can we please not turn this into a Boston v NY thread please? As a NYer I'm getting tired of it.

Please stick to the facts (if you will) of the report.

Thanks.

 

[zioxide]

compare what Roger meant to the NY championships* to what Gagne meant to the Sox championship. Roger was a big part in winning, while the Sox won in spite of Gagne.

But keep telling yourself whatever you need to, so that you can celebrate your championships*

and Gagne was juicing a few years ago, not this year.

Clemens was juicing when he won the WS with the yanks

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

compare what Roger meant to the NY championships* to what Gagne meant to the Sox championship. Roger was a big part in winning, while the Sox won in spite of Gagne.

But keep telling yourself whatever you need to, so that you can celebrate your championships*

I will.

and Gagne was juicing a few years ago, not this year.

Clemens was juicing when he won the WS with the yanks

And he won all his playoff games too.

Let go Yankees !!!

 

[Unspeaked]

Can we please not turn this into a Boston v NY thread please? As a NYer I'm getting tired of it.

Please stick to the facts (if you will) of the report.

Thanks.

I'm afraid it's a proven fact that any baseball discussion, anywhere, will turn into a "Yankess vs. Red Sox" debate given enough time.

In fact, this could probably be expanded to include any discussion about sports in general!

 

[IJ Reilly]

I watched George Mitchell interviewed on PBS this evening. I was impressed by everything he said, and his completely direct, no nonsense way of saying it. Am I the only one who thinks that Mitchell ought to be the Commissioner of Baseball? Should we dare to hope for as much?

 

[luminosity]

I wouldn't put much stock in the report. It relies mostly on hearsay, and there's no way it caught everyone (or can ensure that those mentioned were doing steroids).

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

I watched George Mitchell interviewed on PBS this evening. I was impressed by everything he said, and his completely direct, no nonsense way of saying it. Am I the only one who thinks that Mitchell ought to be the Commissioner of Baseball? Should we dare to hope for as much?

I hear he's going back to the Red Sox board since this is done.

And I don't care how no nonsense the Commissioner is, he/she/it has to make the owners happy and work with the most powerful union in all of sports. Mitchell is on the outside looking in, he can be as no nonsense as he wants. Except for the All Star Game, I don't think Selig has done a bad job.

 

[yeroen]

Wow, this is front-page bold letter stuff over on the New York Times website today.

Queue up our politicians' state of moral panic and sanctimonious broadsides.

Was anyone here alive when Dock Ellis pitched a no-hitter, while tripping on LSD, against the San Diego Padres in 1970? I really wish today's baseball players would imitate that stunt. See the ball, be..be the ball.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I hear he's going back to the Red Sox board since this is done.

And I don't care how no nonsense the Commissioner is, he/she/it has to make the owners happy and work with the most powerful union in all of sports. Mitchell is on the outside looking in, he can be as no nonsense as he wants. Except for the All Star Game, I don't think Selig has done a bad job.

Mitchell has already proven his ability to work successfully with warring parties. If he can deal with the Irish, he can deal with the owners and players. Selig has been so ineffective for so long, I think we forget why the Commissioner of Baseball was created in the first place. Incidentally, Mitchell almost got the job once, after he retired from the Senate, but Selig would not give it up.

IMO, Selig has been an unmitigated disaster. For one thing, if it wasn't for his bumbling, the Mitchell Report probably would not have been necessary.

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

Mitchell has already proven his ability to work successfully with warring parties. If he can deal with the Irish, he can deal with the owners and players. Selig has been so ineffective for so long, I think we forget why the Commissioner of Baseball was created in the first place. Incidentally, Mitchell almost got the job once, after he retired from the Senate, but Selig would not give it up.

IMO, Selig has been an unmitigated disaster. For one thing, if it wasn't for his bumbling, the Mitchell Report probably would not have been necessary.

I hear a lot about Mitchell brokering peace. That's war, people die during war. War isn't baseball. It's not that serious. Baseball players can do other jobs than play baseball. They won't make tons of money but they can make a living. Do you get what I mean?
Am I the only one who remembers baseball almost went on strike again? Selig got drugs testing into baseball, he's been the commissioner during the resurgence of baseball since it's last strike. Furthermore, if the commissioner released this report on his own, the players' union would be all over him. So no I don't think this report or any press conference interview he does makes him a better candidate than Selig. Steroids got banned in baseball in 1991 but there was no testing for it. What do you want Selig to do?

What I read said the owners extended Selig's contract, but maybe you have different info than I do.

 

[Sayhey]

I saw Mitchell give his report and I saw him later during an interview on PBS' the NewsHour. I have only skimmed the report itself so far. With that disclaimer, let me say my initial reaction to the report. I find the naming of players repellant. The league and the players union have a collective bargaining agreement, in which discipline and the methods for grievance hearings for players charged are all spelled out. This report goes well outside this procedure and sets players up for ridicule and future discipline without the safeguards of impartial hearings. Mitchell's response is to say he invited players to come and tell him their side and almost no one did so. As a former judge, Mitchell, now functioning as the owner's investigator, ought to be embarrassed by such statements. This report, by releasing names, puts everything on the players - Mitchell's disclaimers about collective blame notwithstanding. I see this report as mostly a rehash of what has been uncovered by other investigations that highlight players names.

I start with this view of the "steroid era." Owners built this game during this period around the home run. They did so through the building of smaller parks and the conscious promotion of the home run hitter as the tool that packs the parks and generates the TV revenue. They did so with full knowledge that steroid usage helped make them money and endangered players' health. If we want an accounting of what happened with steroid abuse in baseball and why, it should start with the owners. Yet there is almost nothing in the report about the owners (the Giants' Peter Magawon maybe the only exception, but as I've said I haven't read the whole report.)

Certainly, there is nothing in the recommendations that will seriously change the situation from what it is today. If the owners really wanted to stop this crap, they would talk about team fines and team sanctions. When teams are stopped from playing in the post season, lose draft picks, and owners have to pay significant amounts of money or even have to sell their teams for allowing steroid and other drug abuse to take place - then and only then - will we know they are serious about stopping the use of PEDs. Right now, it is just another show to convince a skeptical public they should continue to watch.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I hear a lot about Mitchell brokering peace. That's war, people die during war. War isn't baseball. It's not that serious. Baseball players can do other jobs than play baseball. They won't make tons of money but they can make a living. Do you get what I mean?
Am I the only one who remembers baseball almost went on strike again? Selig got drugs testing into baseball, he's been the commissioner during the resurgence of baseball since it's last strike. Furthermore, if the commissioner released this report on his own, the players' union would be all over him. So no I don't think this report or any press conference interview he does makes him a better candidate than Selig. Steroids got banned in baseball in 1991 but there was no testing for it. What do you want Selig to do?

What I read said the owners extended Selig's contract, but maybe you have different info than I do.

Northern Ireland was a political problem. Diplomacy is diplomacy. Mitchell has proven himself to be very good at it, a skill which by contrast Selig completely lacks. To be an effective Commissioner, it also helps to be a figure who commands respect. Mitchell has the respect. Selig does not. I could go on and on, but again I think we forget why baseball decided it needed a Commissioner in the first place, and it wasn't simply to be a mouthpiece for the owners, which is all Selig has ever been. It was to oversee the integrity of the game, something Selig has utterly failed to accomplish. This is more obvious now than ever.

Selig presided over the only cancelled World Series. He turned a blind eye to juicing for years, because juiced players made money for the owners, of which he is one. Every recommendation made by the Mitchell Report should have been implemented years ago. That's what a Commissioner who was protecting the integrity of the game would have done. Selig did not because he's never really been the Commissioner of Baseball.

I don't know about the status of Selig's contract. Last I heard, he was still technically the "interim" Commissioner. At this point, I'm really just speculating on what could have been and what could be, if we had somebody with the stature of George Mitchell as baseball's "keeper of the faith."

 

[MacNut]

Selig was named full time commish after he sold the Brewers, he said he is going to retire after the 2009 season.

One problem I have with this being called an unbiased report is the fact that Mitchell works for a team. If they really wanted a true 3rd party report they would of found someone with no connections to baseball at all. By Selig hiring him he is still working for the front office. Why not have Congress do a report not funded by baseball and see what the results are then.

The only reason this report happened was because Congress was pressuring to do it themselves. Bud did not want that so he had this report done. Im sure it doesn't resolve more then half of the issues.