The one thing that prevents me from buying a MBA.

[ryannel2003]

I owned a 13" rMBP this year and while the screen was absolutely beautiful and much better than my Air's, I don't find the Air's screen to be bad at all. I will note that I despise Apple's stock screen calibration as I find it way too yellow tinged for my liking. The very first thing I did when I bought the computer was calibrate the screen and now it's perfectly fine. I prefer a cooler, bluer calibration and I'm satisfied with it.

 

[capathy21]

So you are saying Apple products are cheap crap?

No, not at all actually. I am saying they are selling the current Air like hotcakes with a cheap TN panel and aren't going to increase manufacturing costs by putting an IPS panel in something that they probably have millions of extra TN panels for.

As I said they've been putting the same TN panel in the Air line for 5 years so there is no reason to change it unless they change the design.

 

[Meister]

No, not at all actually. I am saying they are selling the current Air like hotcakes with a cheap TN panel and aren't going to increase manufacturing costs by putting an IPS panel in something that they probably have millions of extra TN panels for.

As I said they've been putting the same TN panel in the Air line for 5 years so there is no reason to change it unless they change the design.

I agree. With 15% less power consumption, shorter response times ans lower production cost, the TN panels seem like the obvious choice for the portable, reasonably priced and snappy Airs.

If you want an awesome screen, get a rmbp.

 

[CausticSoda]

I have no idea what IPS and TN are!

That proves the point others have made, I think. I love everything about my 11" MBA, and that includes the display when on the move. When I am at home, I plug it into a 30" Dell Ultra-Sharp.

Bottom line - most people who buy the MBA probably don't care and won't notice the difference, so why would Apple go for the more expensive option?

 

[Ulenspiegel]

No, not at all actually. I am saying they are selling the current Air like hotcakes with a cheap TN panel and aren't going to increase manufacturing costs by putting an IPS panel in something that they probably have millions of extra TN panels for.

As I said they've been putting the same TN panel in the Air line for 5 years so there is no reason to change it unless they change the design.

As have been mentioned there are some disadvantages of IPS panels:

IPS panels require up to 15% more power than TN panels.
IPS panels are more expensive to produce than TN panels.
IPS panels have longer response time than TN panels.

That is the price you pay. Last, but not least IPS panels are important for touch-screen devices, such as smartphones and tablets 'cause they do not lighten or show tailing when touched.

MacBooks are not touch-screen devices and longer battery life might be more important for many than sharper display.

What concerns quality difference. It is again a question of consumer needs. Some watch only blu-ray movies, others are satisfied with the old DVDs etc.

 

[motrek]

As have been mentioned there are some disadvantages of IPS panels:

IPS panels require up to 15% more power than TN panels.
...

This was definitely true a few years ago when the 1st gen retina iPad was released... its size increased vs. the iPad 2 because it needed a much bigger battery to maintain the same battery life.

But now we have the iPad Air 2 with some display magic that means it can get away with a much smaller battery.

Also, we have the retina iMac with a display that Apple claims uses 30% less power than the outgoing non-retina IPS display.

So it seems like advances have been made with the technology and I doubt there's much reason to use these old TN panels in the MBA, other than cost, and the idea that Apple probably wants to make a whole new laptop model rather than just making the retina display an upgrade to the Air.

 

[Tough Guy]

No, not at all actually. I am saying they are selling the current Air like hotcakes with a cheap TN panel and aren't going to increase manufacturing costs by putting an IPS panel in something that they probably have millions of extra TN panels for.

As I said they've been putting the same TN panel in the Air line for 5 years so there is no reason to change it unless they change the design.

Still sounds like you are saying Apple makes cheap crap. If their primary concern is manufacturing costs, they might as well switch to celeron processors while they're at it.

 

[motrek]

Still sounds like you are saying Apple makes cheap crap. If their primary concern is manufacturing costs, they might as well switch to celeron processors while they're at it.

There's a difference between minimizing manufacturing costs and selling cheap crap.

The TN screens in the MBA are not crap. They might not be the best, but they aren't crap.

 

[Meister]

Still sounds like you are saying Apple makes cheap crap. If their primary concern is manufacturing costs, they might as well switch to celeron processors while they're at it.

TN panels are not cheap crap.
There are advantages and disadvantages to TN and IPS panels.

 

[capathy21]

Still sounds like you are saying Apple makes cheap crap. If their primary concern is manufacturing costs, they might as well switch to celeron processors while they're at it.

The primary concern with every company is operational costs. Of course companies want their customers to be happy but at the end of the day, they are going to achieve that at the lowest possible costs from manufacturing to labor, this is how corporations operate.

I am not calling the TN panel cheap crap. I am saying that just like any other product from any company, cheaper cost parts are used to keep costs down.

 

[Harthag]

Well, I've been using my new 13" retina MBP for the past few days and it's great, but I still want the Air, haha. Earlier in this thread a few days back I said I was blown away by the display which thwarted my original plan of buying a 13" Air. And that's where it ends, every other aspect of a laptop favors the Air for my uses. I just do general office tasks, internet, remote desktop, some Windows use required. I'm having some scaling issues that I just don't feel like wasting time on trying to resolve. So today I ordered a 13" 1.4/8gb/128gb Air from Apple and upon its arrival will probably return the rMBP. I will miss the retina screen but think I prefer a native 1440x900 screen. Was going to get the 256gb ssd but an extra $200 is highway robbery and I won't use the space anyway. Would rather put money toward the 8gb ram given that I can't predict the future requirements of running Windows on the machine or future OS X releases, or use of Parallels. We'll see!

 

[capathy21]

Well, I've been using my new 13" retina MBP for the past few days and it's great, but I still want the Air, haha. Earlier in this thread a few days back I said I was blown away by the display which thwarted my original plan of buying a 13" Air. And that's where it ends, every other aspect of a laptop favors the Air for my uses. I just do general office tasks, internet, remote desktop, some Windows use required. I'm having some scaling issues that I just don't feel like wasting time on trying to resolve. So today I ordered a 13" 1.4/8gb/128gb Air from Apple and upon its arrival will probably return the rMBP. I will miss the retina screen but think I prefer a native 1440x900 screen. Was going to get the 256gb ssd but an extra $200 is highway robbery and I won't use the space anyway. Would rather put money toward the 8gb ram given that I can't predict the future requirements of running Windows on the machine or future OS X releases, or use of Parallels. We'll see!

I was the same way. Loved EVERYTHING about the Air more than the retina except the display. Other factors were more important to me and I love the Air. You get used to the display after a few days. Do NOT sit and compare them side by side for very long or you will talk yourself out of the Air lol.

 

[slight32]

I worried about the screen too. Then I bought one and stopped worrying. They're fine, most of the noise about them is due to people needing or wanting to find fault, which makes them sound awful.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

I worried about the screen too. Then I bought one and stopped worrying. They're fine, most of the noise about them is due to people needing or wanting to find fault, which makes them sound awful.

I agree 100%.
Let them count the pixels.

 

[Neodym]

Or perhaps you need the hiRes display because you work with computer graphics or digital photography.

Why do so few people mention text-based work when it comes to the Retina screens? This is one aspect where those displays really shine, even while "only" surfing the web or doing other "light" activities. And therefore a good reason even for hobbyists and (especially) people with aging eyes to get a "Pro" machine, just for that display.

 

[slight32]

Why do so few people mention text-based work when it comes to the Retina screens? This is one aspect where those displays really shine, even while "only" surfing the web or doing other "light" activities. And therefore a good reason even for hobbyists and (especially) people with aging eyes to get a "Pro" machine, just for that display.

I'm 50, need reading glasses, and I'm a writer/publisher. The Air is fine.

 

[Neodym]

The Air is fine.

I didn't claim otherwise. But in my opinion (after having owned both MBA's and rMBP's) the Retina screen is even better, and significantly so. And this is clearly visible not only with images or video, but also and imho especially with text.

 

[sjinsjca]

As Florpy noted, it's a power thing.

The Air, above all, is about untethered computing for hours and hours.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Apple is extremely vigilant with cost control so they make fat profits.

IPS displays aren't cheap compared to a garden variety TN. Although I'm fortunate to have 20/20 vision, the display on my 13" MBA is bordering on poor.

Exacerbated by the fact I also have a 15" RMBP, I end up using the MBA far less than originally anticipated. Especially since my RMBP is so thin, light and extremely portable.

If not for Apple's poor resale I'd have blown out the MBA long ago.

Apple could make this laptop way cheaper if they wished to do so. For the majorioty of the users the TN screen is more than sufficient for the tasks. The Air is surposed to be offered at an attractive price point and I think it is a great value for the price.

So do most others.

 

[Boyd01]

therefore a good reason even for hobbyists and (especially) people with aging eyes to get a "Pro" machine, just for that display.

My 65 year old eyes didn't have problems with my 2011 13" MBA or and don't have problems my 2013 11" MBA.

 

[Neodym]

My 65 year old eyes didn't have problems with my 2011 13" MBA or and don't have problems my 2013 11" MBA.

I did not have problems with the flickery 50Hz Amiga screens on CRT's back in the time, which were massively Lo-Res compared to today's standards. Yet I do appreciate the massive display technology advancements since then.

My eyes are ageing as well and I have no problem to admit that.

And in comparison a Retina display is notably less fuzzy and thus puts significantly less strain on the eyes, thus reducing the risk for tension headaches (among other advantages).

If you are satisfied with your MBA, good for you. Just don't work on a Retina display for some time, as that may spoil you for your MBA's screen.

 

[objektør]

Why do so few people mention text-based work when it comes to the Retina screens? This is one aspect where those displays really shine, even while "only" surfing the web or doing other "light" activities. And therefore a good reason even for hobbyists and (especially) people with aging eyes to get a "Pro" machine, just for that display.

I didn't claim otherwise. But in my opinion (after having owned both MBA's and rMBP's) the Retina screen is even better, and significantly so. And this is clearly visible not only with images or video, but also and imho especially with text.

My eyes are ageing as well and I have no problem to admit that.

And in comparison a Retina display is notably less fuzzy and thus puts significantly less strain on the eyes, thus reducing the risk for tension headaches (among other advantages).

Totally agree. I am using someone's mba quite a bit and it is a great machine. Coming from a 2009mbp I find even the screen ok. No problem with it. It's good but good is the enemy of the best.

 

[iososx]

Apple could make this laptop way cheaper if they wished to do so. For the majorioty of the users the TN screen is more than sufficient for the tasks. The Air is surposed to be offered at an attractive price point and I think it is a great value for the price.

So do most others.

Yes Apple's done a great job convincing people to pay premium prices. And like you pointed out the TN is good enough since most people don't care. As long as they get the coveted Apple logo, nothing else matters. When it comes to persuasive marketing Apple has the keys to success.

 

[Harthag]

Yes Apple's done a great job convincing people to pay premium prices. And like you pointed out the TN is good enough since most people don't care. As long as they get the coveted Apple logo, nothing else matters. When it comes to persuasive marketing Apple has the keys to success.

Some truth to that I guess. But what other quality non-16:9 sub 3 pound laptops are out there, without super ultra reflective and/or touch screens? And with battery life of 12 hours? I tried both the Pro and Air, I chose the Air based on my usage and needs and the fact that HiDPI screens cause issues with my work.

 

[motrek]

Yes Apple's done a great job convincing people to pay premium prices. And like you pointed out the TN is good enough since most people don't care. As long as they get the coveted Apple logo, nothing else matters. When it comes to persuasive marketing Apple has the keys to success.

While you might pay some Apple tax it might not be as much as you think.

I was recently researching laptops for a friend. They definitely wanted a Windows laptop. Since people are always talking about how much cheaper equivalent Windows computers are, I expected to find a laptop similar to the MBA for hundreds less. Wow was I in for a surprise. Good luck finding a PC laptop that weighs less than ~3.5 lbs that has an SSD and at least a Core i5 and a battery that lasts longer than 4 hours or so. The cheapest ones are maybe $600 and they have hundreds of negative Amazon reviews due to manufacturing defects and design flaws. That's already only a couple hundred less than you can get a MBA for (on sale) for a very questionable product. So I'd argue that Apple's prices are actually pretty fair.