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The Premier League Thread!

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Wenger doesn't buy or bring through English players. Fact. Odd exceptions of course but 99% of the time .. a true statement. He does drive them out of the club though. He can buy a Frenchman on a Wednesday and he'll be in the team on Saturday while English youngsters who have been with the club from the very first day of Wenger's regime can't get in the team at all. Bored they leave. Worked great for Bentley, Sidwell etc.

All nations travel well except the English. So if you are an Italian and you can't get a regular place in Italy you can go to Spain etc. So even though the Italian league is full of foreigners it's okay because the Italians learn their trade in other leagues. Gain experience and compete for their national team. The English don't so they get no chances to break through. So my assertion that there is a crisis in English football is a true one and also a little tease. Good English players at Arsenal are frozen out by Wenger; go to second rate clubs with second rate coaches and never realise their potential. How many English goal keepers are there in the Premiership? How many top rate strikers are there? You can only choose from less than a handful of keepers and it's the same with strikers. England aren't going to do anything in the next 2 Cups and that is a fact. You will be picking 5 out of 22 from the Championship within a couple of years. And it is in part Wengers fault and all the other managers who buy rather than develop. It was said Owen couldn't get any interest from the top 4 clubs on his return from Spain. Same with Beckham. It is amazing how you do not help your national team. Allez les Bleus.;)
 
I was listening to a football podcast the other day and they were discussing the notion that there weren't enough world-class English players to fill the England national roster - the Premiership is perhaps the top football league worldwide but not because of English talent.

I'm not so sure about your criticisms of Wenger though - aren't you Brits required by some law to blame the French for everything? ;) :D
 
Henri Gaudier said:
Wenger doesn't buy or bring through English players. Fact. Odd exceptions of course but 99% of the time .. a true statement. He does drive them out of the club though. He can buy a Frenchman on a Wednesday and he'll be in the team on Saturday while English youngsters who have been with the club from the very first day of Wenger's regime can't get in the team at all. Bored they leave. Worked great for Bentley, Sidwell etc.
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What utter bollocks.

You honestly believe there is some grand scheme to never pick an English player? English players leave us at Arsenal because they aren't good enough. Sidwell and Bentley wouldn't be in our team, they aren't good enough - so they move elsewhere for first team football. English players command more money than their foreign equals, and at a club like Arsenal where we don't have unlimited resources, but want top players, we can't afford to pay a premium for having English players. £16.5 million for Bent, and he is a fringe England player. As Arsene has said many times, he doesn't look at the passport. You get picked for Arsenal depending on how good you are at football, simple as. If there is an English talent who Arsene feels is worth the money he is being sold for, he will buy him - as he would any other nationality. See Walcott.

Henri Gaudier said:
All nations travel well except the English. So if you are an Italian and you can't get a regular place in Italy you can go to Spain etc. So even though the Italian league is full of foreigners it's okay because the Italians learn their trade in other leagues. Gain experience and compete for their national team. The English don't so they get no chances to break through. So my assertion that there is a crisis in English football is a true one and also a little tease. Good English players at Arsenal are frozen out by Wenger; go to second rate clubs with second rate coaches and never realise their potential. How many English goal keepers are there in the Premiership? How many top rate strikers are there? You can only choose from less than a handful of keepers and it's the same with strikers. England aren't going to do anything in the next 2 Cups and that is a fact. You will be picking 5 out of 22 from the Championship within a couple of years. And it is in part Wengers fault and all the other managers who buy rather than develop. It was said Owen couldn't get any interest from the top 4 clubs on his return from Spain. Same with Beckham. It is amazing how you do not help your national team. Allez les Bleus.;)
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How is it Wenger's fault that there isn't enough quality talent in this country? Why should he have to pick a second rate team to satisfy people who want english people playing, when he could pick a better team for the same money if he didn't use so many english people?

I really don't understand your argument. All I can decipher is that you think Wenger is prejudiced against the English and has some evil grand scheme to freeze them out of what he is doing.. Its laughable to be quite honest.
 
yeah price is a big issue with english players ... english clubs buy them for moon prices and also sell them for those ... you just have have to look at fc bayerns recent transfers in germany

they bought Luca Toni for 11 millions and Miroslav Klose for 15 millions and on the other side they sold Owen Hargreaves for 24 million euro

another problem is that most english palyers don't even consider going into a foreign country and would rather play at some second rate club in england.. because, let's not forget, you are less likely to play in the english national team if you are playing in a foreign league even if you are without a doubt the best on that position
example: hargreaves, who got bad mouthed by english press over and over again... yeah like playing at central defensiv midfield in the first squad at bayern munich, who happens to be the best school for that position, is no accomplishment
 
English players leave us at Arsenal because they aren't good enough

So not one English person at the club in 10 or 11 years has made it with the exception of Cole. And he was an accident because Silvinho wasn't willing to fight for his place. And in the same 10 or 11 years he has bought how many English players? And how many French?

.. that there isn't enough quality talent in this country?

My point is that you will never find them because so few are played. Fewer chances = fewer discoveries. If Arsene cant find better defenders than Cygan & Stepanov in all of England then he doesn't know the country. It's funny how he knows who's hot in Auxerre but not Leeds say.

Why should he have to pick a second rate team?

I'm not advocating anything second rate. For Reyes he could have had Joe Cole, Robinson the England National team keeper & Owen.

You're very resistant. So okay. People have asked me about the mind set of people in England because I've worked there and my girlfriend is English. You obviously don't equate the 2 things; A bad national team and few of your top teams having English players. It seems common sense to me but as you said .. bollocks.

I really don't understand your argument.

Perhaps my English isn't as good as I think it is.:)
 
Henri Gaudier said:
You will be picking 5 out of 22 from the Championship within a couple of years.
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Oi – leave the Championship out of this. the last England player who came from a Championship club scored within five minutes of being brought on, so don't go saying we're rubbish or owt. ;)

Lord Blackadder said:
I'm not so sure about your criticisms of Wenger though - aren't you Brits required by some law to blame the French for everything? ;) :D
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Oh yes.

It seems to be quite fashionable to lay the blame at the feet of foreign managers like Wenger, and claim that our lack of success at international level is due simply to them favouring foreign stars over English players. If the players were good enough, they'd get picked. The problems run deeper – a lack of investment in grass roots football means that by the time our promising youngsters get picked up by clubs they're already some way behind our continental cousins in terms of their training and development.

Arsene Wenger has been managing in this country for about eleven years now – the English national side hasn't won anything for over forty. We had problems long before he arrived on these shores.
 
takao said:
yeah price is a big issue with english players ... english clubs buy them for moon prices and also sell them for those ... you just have have to look at fc bayerns recent transfers in germany

they bought Luca Toni for 11 millions and Miroslav Klose for 15 millions and on the other side they sold Owen Hargreaves for 24 million euro

another problem is that most english palyers don't even consider going into a foreign country and would rather play at some second rate club in england.. because, let's not forget, you are less likely to play in the english national team if you are playing in a foreign league even if you are without a doubt the best on that position
example: hargreaves, who got bad mouthed by english press over and over again... yeah like playing at central defensiv midfield in the first squad at bayern munich, who happens to be the best school for that position, is no accomplishment
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Price is certainly a good point.

I too couldn't understand Erikson's attachment to him but he was the English highlight at the 2006. He had lots of heart and shone brightly. I've changed my mind about him completely now.
 
Henri Gaudier said:
English players leave us at Arsenal because they aren't good enough

So not one English person at the club in 10 or 11 years has made it with the exception of Cole. And he was an accident because Silvinho wasn't willing to fight for his place. And in the same 10 or 11 years he has bought how many English players? And how many French?
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Who was the captain 9 years ago when we won the double? Who has played right back for several games last season? Who scored in the Carling Cup Final for Arsenal?

I mentioned price - and I believe that is why he hasn't bought many English players. It's simply really - the standard of player Arsenal require is too expensive when they are English.

Henri Gaudier said:
.. that there isn't enough quality talent in this country?

My point is that you will never find them because so few are played. Fewer chances = fewer discoveries. If Arsene cant find better defenders than Cygan & Stepanov in all of England then he doesn't know the country. It's funny how he knows who's hot in Auxerre but not Leeds say.
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English kids come through our youth system and are offered exactly the same opportunities as foreign kids who are brought in at a young age. Ashley Cole and Justin Hoyte made it. Bentley might have made it if he has stayed on for longer, but at the end of the day it was his decision to leave for first team football immediately. Some people just aren't good enough, simple as. Cesc Fabregas, comes in at 16 from Barca for free. He is good. He makes it. Doesn't matter what nationality he is.

Henri Gaudier said:
Why should he have to pick a second rate team?

I'm not advocating anything second rate. For Reyes he could have had Joe Cole, Robinson the England National team keeper & Owen.
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Robinson is ****, fact. :eek: Even Baptista made him look like a fool. I'm saying Joe Cole and Owen would be more expensive than their foreign counterparts purely because they are English, and that's why they haven't ended up at Arsenal.

Henri Gaudier said:
You're very resistant. So okay. People have asked me about the mind set of people in England because I've worked there and my girlfriend is English. You obviously don't equate the 2 things; A bad national team and few of your top teams having English players. It seems common sense to me but as you said .. bollocks.

I really don't understand your argument.

Perhaps my English isn't as good as I think it is.:)
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Your English is impeccable, as you well know. :) No, I don't relate the two actually. I believe more needs to be done with the youth football setup in this country to bring it into line with the continental ones. As Jaffa said, the problems lie deeper than just this current crop of managers.
 
takao said:
because, let's not forget, you are less likely to play in the english national team if you are playing in a foreign league even if you are without a doubt the best on that position
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I don't really think that's true, to be honest – there have been a number of players who have represented England in recent years while plying their trade abroad. You mention Hargreaves, plus Michael Owen, David Beckham and Jonathan Woodgate have all received call ups while playing abroad in the past few years. There are longstanding rumours about the likes of Gerrard and Lampard attracting the interest of foreign clubs, I doubt very much that they wouldn't get picked if they decided to move to sunnier climes.

I think the reason why so few English players have been capped while playing in a foreign league is simply because so few of our top players move abroad in the first place. Maybe they prefer to stay at home, what with our top flight being the Best League In The World™ and all – or maybe our stars aren't quite as good as we'd like to think they are. ;)
 
Henri Gaudier said:
Price is certainly a good point.
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price is quite hard point , especially for clubs i nthe german bundesliga or the french league which would be ideal for young bench-sitting players in the UK for getting playtime and perhaps learning some things off the field

Henri Gaudier said:
I too couldn't understand Erikson's attachment to him but he was the English highlight at the 2006. He had lots of heart and shone brightly. I've changed my mind about him completely now.
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yeah the problem was that erikson let him play on positions like right defender, which he played in his club exactly _zero_ times while denying him his well deserved central defensive midfield where he was a key player in his club

yeah the WC was finally his breakthrough... i mean it was so obviously that the english team became instantly 2 times better whenever he got substituted in, and still the next game he still weren't playing from the start.. and then the same again
 
Speaking as an American, most of our best players play abroad - our domestic league is not competitive enough to develop even the best prospects. This is why Freddy Adu will never be world class until he goes to a foreign league.

So in our case, (schedule permitting), it would be ridiculous not to call up players just because they aren't in our domestic league...

By the way, it's funny to look at the current England roster and see "LA Galaxy" next to Beckham's name. :D

It seems to me that the English are far less likely to play abroad than any other European nation...
 
What an idiot - I don't blame him for trying to promote the sport in the US (it needs it and I want to see it improve), but anyone who has watched any European or South American top level football will see that he's full of it.

Watford could beat the snot out of any MLS team, except the All Stars.

I'd like to see more EPL teams tapping the US for talent.
 
Adu isn't good enough...he's only ever played in the US, so he isn't ready for the EPL, especially with Man U. He should go play in Europe, though. He has potential, but it will all be wasted if he stays in the US.

Why is the FA stalling over the West Ham/Tevez thing? They certainly don't want 21 teams in the table, but Sheffield U had a point - West Ham never legally owned Tevez.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Why is the FA stalling over the West Ham/Tevez thing? They certainly don't want 21 teams in the table, but Sheffield U had a point - West Ham never legally owned Tevez.
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Well, a decision has been made today and there's going to be no reprieve for the Blades. Let's be honest, there was barely a slim chance that they'd get their way so there's no real surprise at the decision.

I'm looking forward to their visit to the KC next season. Altogether now...

'There's only one Carlos Tevez!' :p
 
I'm not surprised at the outcome, given what would have to happen to the schedule if West Ham were forcibly relegated (or Sheffield retained)...but it stinks a bit - West Ham should be docked points in addition to being fined.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
I'm not surprised at the outcome, given what would have to happen to the schedule if West Ham were forcibly relegated (or Sheffield retained)...
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The fixtures wouldn't have been affected I would have thought. Had Sheffield United succeeded and got West Ham relegated today, then they would have stayed up instead – essentially the two teams would have swapped fixture lists. We wouldn't have had a 21 team Premier League and a 25 team Championship for 2007-2008.
 
I'm so glad at this outcome (even though i go to Uni in Sheffield).

Hopefully West Ham can get a few decent signings now that this is under their belt.
 
Jaffa Cake said:
I should think so too, looking at your location – you can see Watford play twice next season, right on your doorstep. ;)
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Cheeky

I love watching Watford, they have a real heart to them. Sheffield Utd just don't have that heart. And don't get me started about the Sheffield Utd "kop". There is only one kop.
 
Just thought I would introduce a new name on the same theme.

Torres, his name is Torres, it rhymes with...

t1_torres.jpg
 
"In particular, in circumstances where the tribunal recognised that the outcome of the decision turned out to be 'unfortunate in the extreme', and that Sheffield United have done nothing wrong to merit this outcome."

One could argue that Sheffield United did do something wrong to merit this outcome, they didn't win the extra game they needed to.
 
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