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The problem with iPad Mini

s15119 said:
The only problem with the iPad mini is it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

People were talking about Apple TV integration since last year, after Apple adding Bluetooth 4.0 to all of their products.

"the new Apple TV will enable some interesting uses. One possibility includes voice control via Siri, with your iPhone 4S acting as a remote Bluetooth 4.0-enabled microphone to take Siri commands. Another possibility is a dedicated, low-latency touch controller for Apple’s set-top box for comfortable gaming on the big screen. It could be similar to the Remote application that lets you control your Apple TV using an iOS device. This is just scratching the surface as the many benefits of the new Bluetooth 4.0 standard – of which low power consumption and low latency are the two crucial differentiators – should spark the creation of seamless, more battery-friendly AirPlay accessories for Apple’s mobile devices. One thing is certain: Apple added support for Bluetooth 4.0 to iPhone 4S for a reason."

source: http://9to5mac.com/2011/12/12/apple...-accessories-with-airplay-over-bluetooth-4-0/
 
ActionableMango said:
I completely agree with all of that. I never said it would be cheap. Quite the opposite, I said it could command a premium.

The only the disagreement here is that I think it will sell just fine at higher price points even with an iPad 2 and 3 in the mix.

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(1) This joke is old and dead. I'd remind you this site is called MacRumors, where we talk about rumors.

(2) You don't know that it doesn't exist. You only know it isn't officially confirmed. I'd bet that it does exist in a lab somewhere even if Apple has no plans to sell one.
Click to expand...

Show me one. I'll wait.
 
Southernboyj said:
I know for months and months there have been so many rumors of the foretold 'iPad Mini'. It seems like it is a definite thing.. there is a problem with it though.

I was almost 100% positive it was coming in October.. that is until the iPhone 5 event. See I believe Apple no longer has a "Go-to-market strategy" to sell the iPad Mini. Here's why:

The iPad Mini rumors really started coming to fruition when the Nexus 7 was so successful. With Apple having the iPad 3 (I know that's not the official name) and iPad 2 priced respectively at $499 and $399 they have the high-end tablet market well covered. So the iPad Mini would be competing with the low-end tablet market (Nexus 7, Kindle Fire, Nook, etc.)


The problem now is not demand, but pricing. What could Apple price this device at? Most people were suggesting as low as $199 (yeah right) upward to $299.

For the device to really sell, it needs to be a maximum of $299 for the base model. Which sounded realistic, but now the BASE 4" iPod Touch is $299.

You honestly think Apple is going to sell a 7.85" iOS device at the exact same price as a 4" device? No. So if this iPad Mini came out, it would be more than $299. I doubt just $50 more either. I'd say a minimum of $100. Making it $399.

Now why buy a $399 7.85" iPad when you can get the iPad 2 (9.7") for the same price, and the flagship iPad 3 for $100 over that.

There is no pricing room for the iPad Mini to succeed with the iPod Touch being priced at $299.

Your opinions?
Click to expand...
For whatever reason, people seem to think that Apple needs to compete with other companies. Apple is a company that doesn't sell cheap items. So for people to think that Apple needs to release a $199 iPad mini to stay competitive...just don't understand how well Apple can sell things at a higher price.

People are buying the cheap tablets for one reason....it's CHEAP.

If Apple comes out with an iPad Mini it's not to compete on price with another company. It's to provide another available size. If it's only $100 cheaper than a regular iPad, people will still buy it up like crazy.

If the iPad mini does come out, i predict they kill off the iPad 2 and put the mini at $399.
 
Southernboyj said:
You honestly think Apple is going to sell a 7.85" iOS device at the exact same price as a 4" device?
Click to expand...

Yes.

iPod touch 5th generation:

- Retina Display w/ in-cell touch.
- HD Facetime Camera
- 5MP rear camera
- 32GB storage
- Super thin and compact design that fits in a pocket.

Remember that that last point actually has value. It's the reason that the iPod Mini and iPod Nano sold so well when introduced, despite the full-size iPod being a much better value as far as storage/$ goes. It also costs more to make a device to such small tolerances.

The iPad Mini:
- Non-retina display. Larger, but lower density (same density as iPhone 3GS screen). Despite being larger this screen will probably be cheaper than the iPod touch screen. Most likely not in-cell touch.
- Slightly more aluminum and glass in the case.
- Larger battery for larger display.
- Probably lower resolution cameras (like those in the iPad 2)
- Probably only 16GB memory
- Not pocketable
- Optional 3G/LTE (with GPS)

Basically the iPad Mini will mostly be an iPad 2 (which currently sells for $399 by the way) with a smaller screen, smaller battery, and smaller case. It will probably be built with much larger internal tolerances than the iPod touch. Take a look at teardowns of the iPad 1 for an example, it had tons of empty space inside.

It will be a distinct product from the iPod touch, despite being at a similar price. Just like the iPod Mini was when it was introduced.

It will be the lowest off-contract entry price from Apple for a 3G/LTE/GPS equipped device.
 
Southernboyj said:
I know for months and months there have been so many rumors of the foretold 'iPad Mini'. It seems like it is a definite thing.. there is a problem with it though.

I was almost 100% positive it was coming in October.. that is until the iPhone 5 event. See I believe Apple no longer has a "Go-to-market strategy" to sell the iPad Mini. Here's why:

The iPad Mini rumors really started coming to fruition when the Nexus 7 was so successful. With Apple having the iPad 3 (I know that's not the official name) and iPad 2 priced respectively at $499 and $399 they have the high-end tablet market well covered. So the iPad Mini would be competing with the low-end tablet market (Nexus 7, Kindle Fire, Nook, etc.)


The problem now is not demand, but pricing. What could Apple price this device at? Most people were suggesting as low as $199 (yeah right) upward to $299.

For the device to really sell, it needs to be a maximum of $299 for the base model. Which sounded realistic, but now the BASE 4" iPod Touch is $299.

You honestly think Apple is going to sell a 7.85" iOS device at the exact same price as a 4" device? No. So if this iPad Mini came out, it would be more than $299. I doubt just $50 more either. I'd say a minimum of $100. Making it $399.

Now why buy a $399 7.85" iPad when you can get the iPad 2 (9.7") for the same price, and the flagship iPad 3 for $100 over that.

There is no pricing room for the iPad Mini to succeed with the iPod Touch being priced at $299.

Your opinions?
Click to expand...

Your argument doesn't hold though.

The iPhone retails for more than the equivalent iPad ...
 
rmhop81 said:
For whatever reason, people seem to think that Apple needs to compete with other companies. Apple is a company that doesn't sell cheap items. So for people to think that Apple needs to release a $199 iPad mini to stay competitive...just don't understand how well Apple can sell things at a higher price.

People are buying the cheap tablets for one reason....it's CHEAP.

If Apple comes out with an iPad Mini it's not to compete on price with another company. It's to provide another available size. If it's only $100 cheaper than a regular iPad, people will still buy it up like crazy.

If the iPad mini does come out, i predict they kill off the iPad 2 and put the mini at $399.
Click to expand...


I'd argue that. The Nexus 7 isn't a cheap device. It is very very solid. I believe iFixit said its hardware cost about $184. They are making razor thin margins, but that is to the benefit of the consumer. And I completely agree.. Apple doesn't *need* to sell an iPad Mini, but they are smart and like to explore every market within their field.


Also, Apple does compete with other companies. iOS devices compete with Android. I shouldn't even have to explain that.. but if you require it, I will.

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Dwalls90 said:
Your argument doesn't hold though.

The iPhone retails for more than the equivalent iPad ...
Click to expand...

My argument does hold. EVERY phone has a very premium price.
There is one reason for this: Carrier subsidies. If you couldn't get an iPhone for $199/$299 and had to pay at least $600 it wouldn't have sold near as well. Every manufacturer does this though, not just Apple.
 
It's coming....

s15119 said:
The only problem with the iPad mini is it doesn't exist.

ru·mor   /ˈrumər/ Show Spelled[roo-mer] Show IPA
noun
1. a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts: a rumor of war.
2. gossip; hearsay: Don't listen to rumor.
3. Archaic . a continuous, confused noise; clamor; din.
Click to expand...
 
The only way I could see the iPad Mini being $299 with the iPod Touch also the same price is if the iPad Mini has:

1. Non-retina display
2. A5 chip
3. 8GB storage (maybe 16?)
4. No cellular (Without a $100 premium)
5. Maybe like a 5MP camera.
6. VGA FaceTime.

Which kind of takes the appeal away.

I want an iPad Mini, but I want it to have all the features of the 3rd gen iPad, just less screen real estate.
 
Southernboyj said:
The only way I could see the iPad Mini being $299 with the iPod Touch also the same price is if the iPad Mini has:

1. Non-retina display
2. A5 chip
3. 8GB storage (maybe 16?)
4. No cellular (Without a $100 premium)
5. Maybe like a 5MP camera.
6. VGA FaceTime.

Which kind of takes the appeal away.

I want an iPad Mini, but I want it to have all the features of the 3rd gen iPad, just less screen real estate.
Click to expand...

I think you're almost right on for the specs. Probably 16GB though, 8 is a little tough with the size of iPad apps.

Think of it as a cheaper replacement for the $399 iPad 2 in the lineup, rather than an upsized 5th gen iPod touch.

I would expect the iPad Mini to always lag behind the features and power of the full sized iPad, just like the iPod touch always lags behind the iPhone to hit its price point.
 
IF there is an iPad mini it is not to necessarily compete with the Kindle et al - it is to offer the consumer an Apple product in the 7"- 8" tablet form factor - which is preferable to the 9.7" iPad to some. The iPod has very little to do with an introduction of a mini iPad at all.

With this in mind I do not think Apple would scrimp on tech, internals or externals. I can see it being a top end quality product that compliments the current iPad - with retina, A6, Siri, same Camera as iPad - the full works. It will then be very desirable. A starting price of $399 for the basic 16 gb WiFi model and I can see this flying off the shelves.

If this product is ever introduced it will not be a watered down iPad - it will be a "revolutionary" iPad Mini - just as good as it's bigger brother/sister - Apple simply won't do it any other way.
 
iPad mini more about good business, less about what forum posters think

I'm not sure why an iPad mini is so contentious, but man this product raises some hackles...lol.

From a business perspective, it's always better to offer customers more options. When doing so, the only real concern is the marginal cost to adding an option. If people want a hot pink iPhone 5, what is the cost to develop and produce a unit with this variation? Does it increase costs of your other products? IE, you might save $1 per unit by making them all black. But if your design cost is low (probable for an iPad mini...it uses existing hardware and software in a new form factor) then you move on to market demand.

Detractors on this site say there is no demand for this size. The data contradicts you. Amazon reported (and reputable business sites agree with this figure) a 22% US market share for the Kindle Fire. That's a whole lotta people buying a 7ish" $200 tablet...either because of price, size, brand or features.

So...if Apple sees this gigantic slice of the tablet pie being taken by amazon and others, and they can cheaply bring a competing device to market, what is the problem with them Doing so? What's with the bizarre whiney Mac-fanatic schadenfreude about apple failing on this?

Here's the bottom line. Apple has over $150 billion in cash in the bank. They are retaining a dominant position in the tablet and mobile device market...the most important tech product segment right now. Let them release the dang iPad mini. If it succeeds, apple stock goes up, they make new, better, cheaper products, and we all win. If it fails, it quietly goes away like the 24" iMac. No muss, no fuss.

The iPad mini is coming. It will probably be a phenomenal success. Get on board now. Tell people you think it will be great. If it works out, you'll look prescient. If not, just say the market moved to bigger, better displays.
 
lightmyway said:
Call me crazy then.
Click to expand...

Call me maybe. :D

----------
carefreecork said:
IF there is an iPad mini it is not to necessarily compete with the Kindle et al - it is to offer the consumer an Apple product in the 7"- 8" tablet form factor - which is preferable to the 9.7" iPad to some. The iPod has very little to do with an introduction of a mini iPad at all.

With this in mind I do not think Apple would scrimp on tech, internals or externals. I can see it being a top end quality product that compliments the current iPad - with retina, A6, Siri, same Camera as iPad - the full works. It will then be very desirable. A starting price of $399 for the basic 16 gb WiFi model and I can see this flying off the shelves.

If this product is ever introduced it will not be a watered down iPad - it will be a "revolutionary" iPad Mini - just as good as it's bigger brother/sister - Apple simply won't do it any other way.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, Apple generally does hold a few things back for future releases. I don't think it will have everything you listed.
 
Southernboyj said:
Call me maybe. :D

----------



Keep in mind, Apple generally does hold a few things back for future releases. I don't think it will have everything you listed.
Click to expand...

I don't adhere to the 'holding back' features theory - features are released when they are ready. As all I mentioned are currently R&D'd and have gone to market in the iPhone 5 they will be used.
 
carefreecork said:
I don't adhere to the 'holding back' features theory - features are released when they are ready. As all I mentioned are currently R&D'd and have gone to market in the iPhone 5 they will be used.
Click to expand...

In the flagship iPhone, yes.

The iPod touch has historically always lagged behind though. It had 256mb RAM while the iPhone had 512. It had a low quality screen while the iPhone had IPS. It had an A4 processor while the iPhone got the A5, and now it has an A5 while the iPhone has an A6.

If Apple were only concerned with making the best product that they could, those things wouldn't be true. I'm sure they would like to, but everything is a compromise. The iPod touch is an example of an Apple product that is good but also targeted at a specific price point.

It isn't just the iPod touch. The iPad 2 had a lower quality camera than the iPhone 4. The 3rd-gen iPad has a 5MP camera while the iPhone 4S already had an 8MP. The 3rd gen iPad also didn't get an HD Facetime camera, even though it should have been possible. Well reasoned compromises to hold the $499 entry price on the iPad.
 
Maybe Apple is cheating on us ... No iPod Touch yet shipped so still possible to adjust the price $50 down without hurting anyone and makeing space for the iPad Mini. Until then the competitor wouldn't know. Production of the Mini might take place in a "forgotten" Foxconn site in LatAm.
 
Stetrain said:
In the flagship iPhone, yes.

The iPod touch has historically always lagged behind though. It had 256mb RAM while the iPhone had 512. It had a low quality screen while the iPhone had IPS. It had an A4 processor while the iPhone got the A5, and now it has an A5 while the iPhone has an A6.

If Apple were only concerned with making the best product that they could, those things wouldn't be true. I'm sure they would like to, but everything is a compromise. The iPod touch is an example of an Apple product that is good but also targeted at a specific price point.

It isn't just the iPod touch. The iPad 2 had a lower quality camera than the iPhone 4. The 3rd-gen iPad has a 5MP camera while the iPhone 4S already had an 8MP. The 3rd gen iPad also didn't get an HD Facetime camera, even though it should have been possible. Well reasoned compromises to hold the $499 entry price on the iPad.
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree with your points - I do not think that the iPad mini vs the current iPad will be treated in any way similar (I hope) as Apple have done with iPod vs iPhone or even current iPad to iPad2 (which I expect Apple to keep on until the introduction of the next iPad). I truly believe that any mini will sit alongside the current iPad (possibly with the 3rd gen iPad specs) and will then sell extraordinarily well. Would Apple really introduce a mini with the specs of the iPad2? - I don't believe it would be a wise move. Time will tell but I hope to be surprised and delighted.

My glass is always half full ;-)
 
Stetrain said:
Yes.

iPod touch 5th generation:

- Retina Display w/ in-cell touch.
- HD Facetime Camera
- 5MP rear camera
- 32GB storage
- Super thin and compact design that fits in a pocket.

Remember that that last point actually has value. It's the reason that the iPod Mini and iPod Nano sold so well when introduced, despite the full-size iPod being a much better value as far as storage/$ goes. It also costs more to make a device to such small tolerances.

The iPad Mini:
- Non-retina display. Larger, but lower density (same density as iPhone 3GS screen). Despite being larger this screen will probably be cheaper than the iPod touch screen. Most likely not in-cell touch.
- Slightly more aluminum and glass in the case.
- Larger battery for larger display.
- Probably lower resolution cameras (like those in the iPad 2)
- Probably only 16GB memory
- Not pocketable
- Optional 3G/LTE (with GPS)

Basically the iPad Mini will mostly be an iPad 2 (which currently sells for $399 by the way) with a smaller screen, smaller battery, and smaller case. It will probably be built with much larger internal tolerances than the iPod touch. Take a look at teardowns of the iPad 1 for an example, it had tons of empty space inside.

It will be a distinct product from the iPod touch, despite being at a similar price. Just like the iPod Mini was when it was introduced.

It will be the lowest off-contract entry price from Apple for a 3G/LTE/GPS equipped device.
Click to expand...

What is "in cell" touch?
 
carefreecork said:
I don't adhere to the 'holding back' features theory - features are released when they are ready. As all I mentioned are currently R&D'd and have gone to market in the iPhone 5 they will be used.
Click to expand...

You're right, NFC definitely wasn't ready a year ago.

Seriously, NFC is a perfect example.. Passbook without NFC is like a car without gas.
 
There are always pricing oddities. You can't directly compare an iPad and an iPod touch, and it would make logical sense to have low end iPads and high end iPads, and for the same in the iPod touch and iPhone lines.

iPad air 16GB: $249
iPad air 32GB: $299
iPad 2 16GB: $399
iPad (3rd Gen) 16GB: $499

iPod touch (4th Gen) 16GB: $199
iPod touch (4th Gen) 32GB: $249
iPod touch (5th Gen) 32GB: $299
iPod touch (5th Gen) 64GB: $399
 
Tankmaze said:
It's coming.

Why ? Because apple bothered naming the ipad 3 with "the new ipad" and the new iphone still continue with number.

It would be weird to have ipad 3 and ipad 1 mini.
Click to expand...

They did not name it the "new iPad". It's called the "iPad". It's very unlikely Apple will enter the mini-tablet market. They will leave it to Amazon and Samsung while they go after the bigger dollars in the real tablet market - in the same way they never entered the net-book market, despite rumors they would.
 
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