The Real Problem with the iPhone 4 is Yet To Be Addressed

[Knowimagination]

I don't understand why it is so hard for people to learn to hold the phone slightly differently so they don't have to experience this problem?

If you like the phone learn to deal with its problem spot. It should be no harder than getting used to the on screen keyboard.

If you don't like the phone then don't use it.

 

[doboy]

I am proud of this thread. At one point or another, just about everyone was fighting with everyone else, but somehow it has been worked out in a civil manner. Now, people are even joking together. Most threads erupt into nonsense and chaos as people try to tear each other apart.

I agree that we criticize so strongly because we actually like Apple and the iPhone 4. I am in the fortunate position of someone who makes literally a handful of calls a week. Therefore, I tend to slip by the signal defect without much trouble for the most part. However, do I think that the iPhone should work as a phone - that it should work as advertised for everyone - that Apple should take accountability for making this happen - that Apple should honorably treat its customers without hiding from the problem until the media forced it to act - all of these things, yes.

For all things other than its lackluster calling abilities, I think the iPhone 4 is excellent. For heavy talkers, I would not recommend it. For light callers, but heavy Wi-Fi users (i.e. web, email, online apps), I would recommend it.

From reading this post, I take back calling you a troll. . You seem to have legitimate concerns and issues as an owner of iPhone 4.

 

[dabomb665m]

I don't understand why it is so hard for people to learn to hold the phone slightly differently so they don't have to experience this problem?

If you like the phone learn to deal with its problem spot. It should be no harder than getting used to the on screen keyboard.

If you don't like the phone then don't use it.

It's not "hard". People, especially existing iPhone fans, just want the phone to act like it did in previous generations. And again, it's been shown to be fixable with only 2mil of some kind of insulating tape. As such, it's easy to hope that apple does something to fix it for us enthusiasts.

 

[MCCM]

No...
There is a range of normal serum potassium. One can survive on lower levels of potassium just fine, but if too low and other circumstances exist cardiac conduction degrades and you get arrhythmias and death. ATTENUATION

Toxins, by definition, are causing harm. An organism exposed to a toxin may have cellular damage. When enough damage is done, illness occurs. More damage, death.

As long as a cellular signal is above a certain threshold, the user should not experience call drop/degradation. And it's all about call quality and dropped calls.

Lurker here, but had to weigh in on the analogy controversy. I don't see why people are criticizing it, it's a good one.

As you say, "when enough damage is done, illness occurs". This is analogous to 'when enough attenuation happens, dropped calls occur'. Sub-clinical cellular damage without overt illness is analogous to reduced call quality.

The hypokalemia analogy fails because hyperkalemia is also harmful, whereas no one would complain about too little attenuation. Attenuation ("to thin") is unidirectional and potassium levels must be kept from being too high or too low.

 

[M-5]

If you think the difference is 1%, you are being duped.

Think carefully about that statistic. It's 1 more dropped call per 100. But how many dropped calls does the 3GS experience? This they don't tell us, that's how they are duping us.

To illustrate, let's say, for the sake of illustration, that the iPhone 3GS drops 5 calls per 100. That means the iPhone 4 drops 6 per 100. That's a whopping 20% increase in dropped calls. Use other numbers and you'll still see that the 1 more dropped call per 100 is a pretty significant difference.

I think you're trying to dupe us.
Let's say you dropped 1 call per 100 (1% dropped calls). If the number increased to 2 calls per 100 (2% dropped calls), then sure you could say that your dropped calls have increased 100%, but the numbers are so small that a percent increase of dropped calls is insignificant. No sane person is going to bicker about an extra dropped call for every 100 calls he/she makes, because they won't even notice. (And anyhow, it was stated to be LESS than 1 more per 100 dropped)

And here's Jimmy Fallon's example of the iPhone 4's better performance in weak coverage areas:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/the-jimmy-fallon-test-is-the-iphone-4-dropping-less-calls/

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Interesting loop here. Apple claims that only people in weak signal areas are affected by a defective antenna that works better for people in weak signal areas. Nonetheless, people are experiencing the drops as a result of the antenna design and Apple has no plans to fix the iphone 4 for them.

So basically all that BS at today's conference about how Apple wants every customer to be happy and loves them all (gag) was... BS.

And you can't return your horribly defective phone why?

 

[nooaah]

Sounds like a pretty good analogy to me. There's a safe level of attenuation until it results in degradation. There's a safe level of toxins until it causes harm.

No, you're losing the same amount of signal each time. The variable is your reception when unobstructed. It's a poor analogy.

 

[falconeight]

This forum is being taken over by drama queens. The damn phone works the same way as any other phone stop the senseless babble return the phone live with it or start a forum for complainers.

 

[scaredpoet]

That's a little like saying "I don't care about toxins in my food as long as I'm not poisoned."

No, because people die from toxins. No iPhone has killed anyone yet.

The signal issue hasn't cause any problem for me either. Will it kill me? No. So it's not the same as toxins in my food. Apples and oranges.

 

[EthanNixon]

Is it REALLY that hard to not touch the corner? Surely I am not the only person who has adjusted their hand grip a couple of centimeters...

 

[Compile 'em all]

Then they simply made the wrong design decision and lied about the capabilities of the product. What's so wrong about admitting this, especially before selling it under false pretense?

Are you dumb?

Please read http://www.apple.com/antenna/

The level of retardness on this forum is staggering.

 

[falconeight]

Is it really that hard to return it and to stop complaining

 

[gr8tfly]

I'm in a weak area and sometime need to hold my 3GS by my fingertips. It's something I just accept. It's part of the game. If I did have an iP4, I might not have to, BUT I most likely would need to stay away from the sweet spot. In other words, the improvement in weak signal performance comes with a small compromise: don't hold it there. If the design improves performance for the vast majority of customers, those for whom the "spot" is an unlivable situation can: a) do the tape trick - then complain how it gets sticky in warm weather b) put a case on it or c) take it the eff back to Apple for a full refund. Simple.

A note on putting a coating on the band: anyone with most any background in antenna design knows that putting an insulator on an antenna element changes its electrical characteristics. Without knowing all the details of the iPhone4's antenna design, I couldn't really begin to calculate what the loss might be, but offhand, for a system that size (relatively larger than internal antennas), I would guess 1dbm, possibly as high as 3dbm (3dbm being half the energy). I forget what the increase in performance has been measured at (Anandtech?), but off the top of my head even my number for a minimum effect would eat in to the gains the iP4's antenna seems to provide [to most customers].

 

[solarein]

No, because people die from toxins. No iPhone has killed anyone yet.

The signal issue hasn't cause any problem for me either. Will it kill me? No. So it's not the same as toxins in my food. Apples and oranges.

a·nal·o·gy   [uh-nal-uh-jee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -gies.
1.
a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

 

[phpmaven]

Worst analogy ever. Attenuation of a signal does not result in dropped/degraded calls unless a minimum threshold is reached. Toxins will cause harm until a lethal threshold dose is reached.

+1

 

[kuaiyouming]

.

 

[Mach1.8]

I look at the topic from this perspective: I am a verizon customer. After mucking about with the various phones they have offered up as alternatives, I can honestly say I've had it! If all I had to do to make a Droid not suck (my opinion only, no offense to those that like the Droid) was to hold it a different way, I would be all over it. But it takes more than that. So, after tons of research I'm switching my wife and I to iPhones tomorrow, ETF and all.

So, the point is, having to hold the phone a little different is a small price, for me anyway, to have a phone of this caliber. My 2 cents.

 

[eawmp1]

I look at the topic from this perspective: I am a verizon customer. After mucking about with the various phones they have offered up as alternatives, I can honestly say I've had it! If all I had to do to make a Droid not suck (my opinion only, no offense to those that like the Droid) was to hold it a different way, I would be all over it. But it takes more than that. So, after tons of research I'm switching my wife and I to iPhones tomorrow, ETF and all.

So, the point is, having to hold the phone a little different is a small price, for me anyway, to have a phone of this caliber. My 2 cents.

Now if some of the people who post on here were as reasonable as you, this would be a more pleasant forum. I can hope that perhaps some of them will leave and go to Verizon.

 

[ntrigue]

Apple has stated that the reason for their new antenna system is that it provides better reception in areas with weak coverage compared with other smartphones and iPhones. Attenuating the antenna will cause a weaker signal, but most people won't encounter dropped calls as a result of this in real world usage, especially with a case, which MANY people seem to use.

For that reason, Apple is genius. 4.0.1 makes it clear that AT&T has weaker signals everywhere.

 

[ntrigue]

I'll try to be more clear... but first, take a look at Apple's website. They describe the "spot" http://www.apple.com/antenna/ very clearly here. The part about the hands... if you look at the first set of comparisons where the left side is practically holding the phone only with fingers while the right side is just holding the phone on the palm of the hand... this is what I'm talking about.

I naturally hold my phone like the picture on the right.... not with my fingers. It was never an issue with any of the previous iPhones. With the iPhone 4, this covers the one vulnerable spot on the phone, which causes issues for me. It's not bad if you pick up the call with your right hand. It's also not bad if you are left handed and navigate the screen with your left. Both of these scenarios will most likely not "touch" the weak spot.

All I'm saying is that I am unlucky enough that I naturally pick up calls with my left hand, therefore touching the spot. I also naturally use my right hand to navigate the phone and therefore touching the spot. I may be in the minority, but that still doesn't mean that there isn't an obvious weak spot on the Phone.

I'm not really arguing the merits of the design. I'm sure most things are a trade-off here and there. I also can't argue whether this issue helps more people than it hurts, as there's no way I can even begin to locate/collect that kind of data besides anecdotal records. I also can't comment on how few are affected because of how many people using cases. What I do know is... when the antenna was internal on the previous iPhones, there wasn't one spot that made the phone extra weak. Sure, the iPhone 4 may have better reception if you don't ever touch that spot... but in my opinion... and because of my usage habits... I'd rather have the old reception capabilities and not have to deal with tip toeing my fingers around the iPhone 4.

Again, Anandtech's article shows that it can be remedied to an extent by insulating the antenna. The kapton tape used was able to almost drop the attenuation by HALF... bringing it nearly to 3GS levels of attenuation when the 3GS is held. If apple can introduce some kind of coating on the frame, something similar might be achieved... making the phone useful to me without a case.

Spoke for me.

Why doesn't it occur to anyone that although the iPhone 4 is dandy today despite the issues that you're stuck with it for two years!

When a perfect iPhone 5 is released you will lose your number and pay $205 to upgrade.

Although you may not 'care about the defect' today, you have 730 days to 'live with it', 'use a free bumper', and practice not dropping calls at one bar.

 

[VulchR]

Everybody here assumes the problem is with attenuation of the signal caused by the body absorbing it. That is almost certainly one part of the problem, and Apple are correct in saying that this is basic physics that applies to all phones. However, Apple's phone seems to be different in that it allows electrical continuity between a person and the antenna (although I note that skin is a relatively poor conductor, with the precise conductance depending on how much oil and sweat there is on its surface). What I wonder is whether the dropped calls are not so much due to attenuation of the signal, but the addition of noise caused by the body acting as a receiving antenna. If so, then the bars display might not provide enough information to predict fully whether a call will be dropped. The probability of a dropped call might depend partially on the amplitude and frequency (and harmonics) of the noise picked up by the body and transmitted to the phone's antenna. Variation in the background electromagnetic noise – along with individual differences in skin conductance, and the strength of the local signal – might explain the variability from user to user. If so, then a given iP4 user cannot assume that their experience generalizes to everybody else, and the debate in these forums about the scale of the problem is therefore pointless.

Just curious - does anybody with any engineering or physical science training know whether this is a possibility or can it be ruled out?

 

[TruckdriverSean]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A306 Safari/6531.22.7)

Not complicated.

Two separate antenna issues.

1) Covering (blocking) the antenna. Steve Jobs gave his PR event in this subject, as every phone has this issue to some degree.

2) De-tuning of the iPhone 4 antenna by conductively "bridging" the two antennas at the lower left gap. One finger can do it, though this is most often experienced by gripping in left hand. This was unaddressed by Jobs' speech, HOWEVER, this is the ONLY problem a bumper or case can solve.

Sean

 

[solarein]

Everybody here assumes the problem is with attenuation of the signal caused by the body absorbing it. That is almost certainly one part of the problem, and Apple are correct in saying that this is basic physics that applies to all phones. However, Apple's phone seems to be different in that it allows electrical continuity between a person and the antenna (although I note that skin is a relatively poor conductor, with the precise conductance depending on how much oil and sweat there is on its surface). What I wonder is whether the dropped calls are not so much due to attenuation of the signal, but the addition of noise caused by the body acting as a receiving antenna. If so, then the bars display might not provide enough information to predict fully whether a call will be dropped. The probability of a dropped call might depend partially on the amplitude and frequency (and harmonics) of the noise picked up by the body and transmitted to the phone's antenna. Variation in the background electromagnetic noise – along with individual differences in skin conductance, and the strength of the local signal – might explain the variability from user to user. If so, then a given iP4 user cannot assume that their experience generalizes to everybody else, and the debate in these forums about the scale of the problem is therefore pointless.

Just curious - does anybody with any engineering or physical science training know whether this is a possibility or can it be ruled out?

The bars are supposed to represent signal-to-noise ratio, not the raw power of the signal received, so noise is already factored in.

 

[solarein]

Now if some of the people who post on here were as reasonable as you, this would be a more pleasant forum. I can hope that perhaps some of them will leave and go to Verizon.

So basically, reasonable means somebody agrees with you, and unreasonable means somebody doesn't agree with you. And you only want to interact with people who agree with you.

Maybe you'd be happier if you did not participate on Internet forums.

 

[S1njin]

Let it rest already. If you don't like it return it no questions asked. Apple made a good faith effort to address the concerns of the minority. I don't get it anymore. If it bothers people that much give it back and shut up !