we aren't forced in the sense that we choose to use apple products. however we can still dislike some things about the product/experience.
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The REAL reason you cannot downgrade
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Somehow "you have to accept" seems to be the opposite of "No part of this process is 'Forced'".
I guess you can say that perhaps people agree to be forced...not sure if that makes it all that much better really.
You are using their OS. So either you don't agree with the term and condition OR you agree.
Look, Apple isn't the company welcome options. Apple likes to think for you and make decision for you, and most time, they are right. Living under Apple's world, you don't have choice.
I dont see people going back to Jelly Bean from KitKat or to ICS from JB ... why all the fuss over iOS ... ridiculous ... its Apple's baby, use it don't use it your choice 
Every day on MR one thread pops with same discussion
Every day on MR one thread pops with same discussion
There are quite a few choices Apple provides with various things, just not everything. Plus, we can still certainly discuss what can be better and why or why isn't something done, and even disagree with some things and voice our opinions about it (usually not getting any further than just voicing opinions and discussing them, but sometimes actually getting somewhere, like the whole "antennagate" and even more recently the whole thing with "reduce motion" settings in iOS 7 that Apple modified).
If Apple still signs the OS for older devices that cannot upgrade to 7 I don't see why newer devices can't downgrade.
That makes sense, but then why did Apple say "its because they took something out of iOS that prevented this ?"
What i mean is if if all Apple has to do is not sign the software anymore to prevent you from downgrading, what does this have with iOS being changed ? aka when they took "something" out ?
That's the bit i can't understand.
This topic again? iOS 8 already is closer than iOS 6, and yet you're still talking about it.
Srsly?
Srsly?
lol...that is just not right.
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Older software on newer phones might cause the unintended issues with all types of apps and cause a negative user experience.
I dont see people going back to Jelly Bean from KitKat or to ICS from JB ... why all the fuss over iOS ... ridiculous ... its Apple's baby, use it don't use it your choice
Every day on MR one thread pops with same discussion
This is the wrong way of thinking.
When I bought my iPod, I did so because the software of the device was very good for organizing a large music collection. I paid for that device and the functionality it offered. I PAID for it.
When iOS7 crippled the music app, Apple took functionality away from me that I originally paid for. Functionality that the device was advertised with and that made me purchase it was suddenly gone.
If Apple was handing out iDevices for free, I'd agree with the "it's their baby - they can do as they please" argument. But since people paid good money for the functionality that was present up to iOS6 and removed or crippled in iOS7, they have the right to complain.
Apple needs to become afraid of losing customers. I've been using iPod audio players for almost ten years and I've been happy up to now, but if the music app isn't fixed fast, this will be the last Apple product I ever bought.
Right now, the music app in iOS7 is so bad that Apple should feel obliged to make downgrades possible until they fix the damn app. My iPod touch that cost me 400 isn't worth it's purchasing price anymore because the new music app is a chore to use.
There are two reasons that apple don't allow older version of software.
1. Bloody mindedness.
2. To try and stop or control jailbreaking.
They first started signing the software, then they started signing the firmware
as well. Then they changed how the software is signed to prevent signature spoofing with SHSH bloobs.
You may ask how does it stop or control jailbreaking. If you have a problem that requires you to reload the software you are forced to upgrade and can no longer jailbreak.
1. Bloody mindedness.
2. To try and stop or control jailbreaking.
They first started signing the software, then they started signing the firmware
as well. Then they changed how the software is signed to prevent signature spoofing with SHSH bloobs.
You may ask how does it stop or control jailbreaking. If you have a problem that requires you to reload the software you are forced to upgrade and can no longer jailbreak.
They won't publicly say it - they know it'd easily result in a class suit against them. They will, when asked directly, lie.... sorry, answer "it was a bug". As they did when I myself asked them about why they removed the, in the IOS3.2.x/4.x times, stellar iPhone 2x mode antialiasing from the iPad 1 / 2 with iOS5.
They haven't announced they have removed 60 fps slo-mo video recording from the 4S either with iOS6. And haven't given back since. Of course, devices with the exact same CPU / memory config (the first iPad Mini) have received it with iOS7, proving it's not because of the shortage of CPU power or RAM that it can't be added back to the 4S.
I had a 4S since launch day and don't recall any 60fps slow-mo video recording in iOS 5 or any subsequent release.
I'm currently typing this on a iPad Mini 2 and it doesn't even have slow-mo video recording. I'm fairly certain the only device supporting 60fps video released by Apple so far is the iPhone 5S running iOS 7.
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Don't mistake the slo-mo menu in the stock Camera app for slo-mo and/or high-fps recording available via third-party apps. It's indeed only the 5s that has the former; the iPad Mini 1,2; iPhone 5, 5c and, of course, 5s all have the latter. Several third-party apps are capable of utilizing the latter; for example, Better Camcorder (more info on the latter app HERE, in my dedicated writeup here at MR.)
However, as of iOS7, all the following models are capable of 2x slo-mo (on paper, see below) 720p60 recording:
iPad Mini 1,2; iPhone 5, 5c
Under iOS5, the 4S also had this capability. Actually, it was even better than the current implementation as it didn't used full pixel binning and, therefore, "only" halved the vertical resolution, not the horizontal. That is, effectively, it recorded 1280*360 effective sensor pixels, unlike current devices, which record 640*360 effective sensor pixels. Of course, if you wanted, you could also use the binned (640*360 effective) mode on the 4S for better low-light performance.
Note that Apple officially advertise their 5s as being able to record slo-mo video in HD resolution (1280*720). That's another lie - it certainly isn't, as has already been hinted on above. It's only the output video that has HD file resolution; the effective sensor input, as has been explained above, 640*360 only. In the articles I've written on pixel binning / high-fps modes on Apple's iDevices, I've shown several comparative ISO12233 framegrabs that show the difference.
For more info, HERE's an iOS5-time article on the 4S' 60 fps mode and HERE is my article here at MR on the 60 fps mode of the iPhone 5 on iOS7. (It discusses a beta; the final has exactly the same features & problems.)
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Ah. Once upon a time I read a very detailed thread by several members about this but I thought it was JB only.
I didn't realize that Apple allowed developers to utilize 60fps on anything other than the 5S.
Learn something new every day I suppose.
I was referring to the original post regarding the OP saying something was taken out of iOS preventing downgrade, not at all referring to features taken out.
Several legit AppStore apps made use of it on non-JB'n HW, back in the iOS5 days:
SloPro
FiLMiC Pro 2 (which, as it was released mostly to make use of the 60 fps mode, was pulled from the AppStore as iOS6 arrived as it no longer could record in 60 fps. The latest update of FiLMiC Pro has just received 60/120 fps support under iOS7; I plan to review it some day).
Better Camcorder
Somehow "you have to accept" seems to be the opposite of "No part of this process is 'Forced'".
I guess you can say that perhaps people agree to be forced...not sure if that makes it all that much better really.
That's pretty much it good sir.
2 choices:
1. Use our software on our terms or
2. don't use our software
That's pretty much it good sir.
2 choices:
1. Use our software on our terms or
2. don't use our software
My iphone is used much less since IOS7. The only time I take it with me is when going to a remote location where emergency assistance could be needed. These phones are for people who are bored. They provide something to play with and pass the time.
If we had choices, Apple's C-level suite guys might have a heart attack. You'd think they would have offered an option to downgrade after the ios7 news outbreak that the OS was making people sick
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If we had choices, Apple's C-level suite guys might have a heart attack. You'd think they would have offered an option to downgrade after the ios7 news outbreak that the OS was making people sick
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If we had choices, Apple's C-level suite guys might have a heart attack. You'd think they would have offered an option to downgrade after the ios7 news outbreak that the OS was making people sick
That was kind of my thinking, which is why it took me 3.5 years to upgrade my trusty Storm 2. I'm still kind of meh on the 5S, but I'm hoping I get hit with a lightning bolt.
Am I the only one who actually reads the EULAs? It says the following about iOS updates:
(b) Apple, at its discretion, may make available future iOS Software Updates for your iOS Device. The iOS Software Updates, if any, may not necessarily include all existing software features or new features that Apple releases for newer or other models of iOS Devices. The terms of this License will govern any iOS Software Updates provided by Apple that replace and/or supplement the Original iOS
Software product, unless such iOS Software Update is accompanied by a separate license in which case the terms of that license will govern.
It specifically states that Apple, when and if it wants to, may make a software update AVAILABLE. It doesn't say anything about software downgrades/making older versions UNavailable! Then it should have said something along these lines:
Apple, at its discretion, may make available future iOS Software Updates for your iOS Device, and may choose to make specific versions of iOS unavailable for download, installation and/or usage on your iOS device, but only if and when an iOS update has been released for your iOS device. The iOS Software Updates, if any, may not necessarily include all existing software features or new features that Apple releases for newer or other models of iOS Devices. The terms of this License will govern any iOS Software Updates provided by Apple that replace and/or supplement the Original iOS
Software product, unless such iOS Software Update is accompanied by a separate license in which case the terms of that license will govern.
So it doesn't specifically say anything about downgrades and this is all I could find about updates. This one line worries me though, because it's very vague:
The terms of this License will govern any iOS Software Updates provided by Apple that REPLACE and/or supplement the Original iOS
Software product, unless such iOS Software Update is accompanied by a separate license in which case the terms of that license will govern.
I don't know whether usage of the word "replace" is enough in to prohibit iOS downgrades, especially where I'm from (European consumer rights rock!).
Seriously though, Apple has changed my iPad to something I would never have bought. I don't think they have the right to do so.
(b) Apple, at its discretion, may make available future iOS Software Updates for your iOS Device. The iOS Software Updates, if any, may not necessarily include all existing software features or new features that Apple releases for newer or other models of iOS Devices. The terms of this License will govern any iOS Software Updates provided by Apple that replace and/or supplement the Original iOS
Software product, unless such iOS Software Update is accompanied by a separate license in which case the terms of that license will govern.
It specifically states that Apple, when and if it wants to, may make a software update AVAILABLE. It doesn't say anything about software downgrades/making older versions UNavailable! Then it should have said something along these lines:
Apple, at its discretion, may make available future iOS Software Updates for your iOS Device, and may choose to make specific versions of iOS unavailable for download, installation and/or usage on your iOS device, but only if and when an iOS update has been released for your iOS device. The iOS Software Updates, if any, may not necessarily include all existing software features or new features that Apple releases for newer or other models of iOS Devices. The terms of this License will govern any iOS Software Updates provided by Apple that replace and/or supplement the Original iOS
Software product, unless such iOS Software Update is accompanied by a separate license in which case the terms of that license will govern.
So it doesn't specifically say anything about downgrades and this is all I could find about updates. This one line worries me though, because it's very vague:
The terms of this License will govern any iOS Software Updates provided by Apple that REPLACE and/or supplement the Original iOS
Software product, unless such iOS Software Update is accompanied by a separate license in which case the terms of that license will govern.
I don't know whether usage of the word "replace" is enough in to prohibit iOS downgrades, especially where I'm from (European consumer rights rock!).
Seriously though, Apple has changed my iPad to something I would never have bought. I don't think they have the right to do so.