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The reason there is no FireWire in the new MacBooks
- Thread starter butterfly0fdoom
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swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
PLEASE do not call 1-800-my-apple and ask to speak to anyone but a sales rep or customer service for a purchase you have made. That is the only reason for that number.
Call 1-408-996-1010 and ask for customer relations.
I think people really need to simmer down about the lack of firewire. It's a consumer laptop. How many consumer computer accessories rely soley on Firewire? Its been my experience that most peripherals offer the choice of USB2 and Firewire. So a thinner and sleeker notebook at the cost of removing a port 95% of consumers (non-pros) never even glance at... sounds reasonable to me.
Plus, people on here make it sound like FW400 is the speed of light and USB2 is from 1965. Unless you have a stopwatch to time all of your file transfers over your various types of cables and connectors, does it really matter?
Plus, people on here make it sound like FW400 is the speed of light and USB2 is from 1965. Unless you have a stopwatch to time all of your file transfers over your various types of cables and connectors, does it really matter?
seems you know what you're talking about.
btw: my eyeTV, 2 of my external HD's and a slide scanner I own run only of FW. Would add quite an amount of money to the cost of the MB if I had to replace them. And my brothers camcorder runs on FW only as well.
USB 2.0 is 480mbps. FireWire 400/800 is 400mbps UNLESS you use raid on FireWire 800 which would get you 800mbps. Who uses raid on a notebook? No one. Maybe a few ppl who just want to mess around. USB 2.0 is faster, and is UNIVERSAL, part of the Universal Serial Bus.
read my mail above. it's not the old discussion about speed. I don't care, USB is fast enough. It's the fact that many people have equipment that's FW only. And there are sound and video accesoires around that need FW.
That's why I and others can't buy the MB although it's absolute gorgeous.
played with it at the Apple store today. Instead of buying the MB I right now set up my new refurb MBP last generation with two FW ports.
Nobody cares what you think. The fact is that FW is both faster in real-world applications in terms of transfering data, and it has lower latency. USB is a completely shoddy standard that barely touches half of the proposed speed. It's simply not up for debate. You already lost.
FW is the audio/video industry standard, and for a reason. I'm sick and tired of ignorant people with no understanding of hardware telling others to "simmer down" and such. You have absolutely no clue. Just stop talking. Please.
It would still be a PCB and chipset redesign though (are there even hardware that supports this now?).
There are three viable options if you don't want to spend the money on a new MBP:
(1) Old MBP
(2) White MB (What's wrong with it? It's a fine computer if you don't play 3D video games.)
(3) PC laptop.
Ok (3) might require a major investment in software
(4) Fourth option: wait until Steve relents.
(1) Old MBP
(2) White MB (What's wrong with it? It's a fine computer if you don't play 3D video games.)
(3) PC laptop.
Ok (3) might require a major investment in software
(4) Fourth option: wait until Steve relents.
I personally picked up a 2.4Ghz Blackbook(Penryn). Sure it's not as sexy as the new ones but I'll sacrifice some of that to get proper Firewire. If apple wants my money, either:
1) Give me Firewire on the Macbook or
2) Give me a 13.3" or 14.1 Macbook Pro
I'd personally prefer 2 mainly because I want a better quality screen. I needed a smaller machine personally so I went from an MBP to an MB for the sake of portability but sacrificed screen quality for it.
1) Give me Firewire on the Macbook or
2) Give me a 13.3" or 14.1 Macbook Pro
I'd personally prefer 2 mainly because I want a better quality screen. I needed a smaller machine personally so I went from an MBP to an MB for the sake of portability but sacrificed screen quality for it.
The exact reason is this.
More and more people are buying laptops, but companies want it to stay desktop for home and laptop for portable.
Apple showed off the macbook pro hooked up to the cinema display, yes? How many people do a similar setup? I do, macbook as the main desktop and a nice large 24" screen with ext & mouse. But the macbook always has had its limitations, there was always a somewhat 'limiting factor' to prevent the pros from working. I had no issue since I had the firewire port, I edit and color correct in Avid Media Composer, use the full CS3 suite, am doing work for mega profits, and working on FCP when lighting strikes me and forces me to use their horrid apps.
But by the introduction of a real graphics chip instantly for a cheap price you can do everything, have dual cores, 4gb of ram, video card, and don't need to get a pro, you can be tiny and portable on the road, and plug it into the big ol' monitor when you get to home/office.
They don't want that. They give you a video card and take away the one port that the pros need. They get the consumers money for the nicer laptop, but the pros can't buy it because they can't use a laptop without firewire.
0 Pros use USB2 for data storage, it is too slow, firewire is that constant 400mbps that is soo important.
0 Pro camcorders/decks transfer/capture over USB2, you can only do data transfer over that format.
Had this had firewire, I would have upgraded my macbook, and not upgraded to a mac pro like I had originally planned.
These forums are littered with people who buy too much to do too little, who don't know the power of these machines, the macbooks are perfect for pro, but lack the firewire, to actually do it now.
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EDIT: Saw the post above about USB2.0 being faster than firewire, which is TRUE, however, Firewire stays at a consistant 400mbps, while USB fluctuates between 12mpbs and 480mbps, it RARELY ever peeks above 300. Also USB uses your main CPU, firewire has a dedicated chip, so a lot of USB devices will slow your computer.
I see Jobs' response was a one-liner: "Actually, all of the new HD camcorders of the past few years use USB 2."
Doesn't look like he's going to line up behind bring Firewire back.
I can't believe you think it would be better if they had dropped one of the USB ports instead of the Firewire port. That means there would only be one USB port and then there would be 10-times as many people complaining. People complain enough about the iMac only having 3 USB ports on the back.
Totally agree with you here!
They could have easily differentiated the Macbookpro by adding an eSata port.
And your source for 95% is what? Your own imagination?
The performance issue is not comparative speed, it's that Firewire guarantees a continuous data rate, which is necessary for time-based (e.g., audio and video) data. But the real issue is that a lot of people already own Firewire devices (a standard that, after all, Apple has pushed for 20 years). Now, in a style that is becoming familiar in the past few years, Apple just gave those people its middle finger.
I bet 95% of users never use more than one USB port.
(Hey, my source is as good as that other guy's.)
Sorry for saying "simmer down" as it appears your life is basically over because the new Macbooks don't carry a FW400 port. The point is that the Macbook is for consumers. Most people doing video editing are going to opt for a Macbook Pro anyway. The few people left over that are consumers, and rely on Firewire only devices likely arent enough to justify a hit to the aesthetics.
And everybody has a right to their own opinion. Being hostel because someone doesnt have the same opinion as you is poor social skills and it'd be great if there were a few less of those people on the forums.
I'm tired of this fallacy. Most people have cheap DV camcorders with FireWire and if they don't edit the video, at least they transfer it to DVD via the computer.
No Firewire? Who cares!
I would sell all my Firewire gear, my old Mac and my car to get one of these super, sleek, sexy aloo-MIN-eum (a la Jonny Ive) machines!
I would sell all my Firewire gear, my old Mac and my car to get one of these super, sleek, sexy aloo-MIN-eum (a la Jonny Ive) machines!
To start out, I completely agree with you. But it's not about me agreeing with you.
It's about what the consumers want. MOST consumers don't use FW. Why? It's not because they don't know what it is, but they've been so filled with USB that they don't know how to use anything else. USB has been pushed so hard that it's BECOME a standard to the general market.
So, for Apple, what does the GENERAL market buy? A MacBook.
Apple is just trying to save a few cents and make more money off of those that need FireWire.
Good thing we're not talking about opinions here then, but facts. It's not like the world will change because you have an opinion about it, we're not living in Dustman's subjective-normative world. Thankfully.
Now, for the part of your post that actually is about opinions. Namely that the Macbooks are for consumers.
The Macbook is for anyone who can use it for whatever they need it for. Companies need to worry about segmentation, the user doesn't. If the user potentially could have a cheap but powerful laptop he or she could use for editing video or recording music, he would appreciate it. When Apple decides to remove that opportunity just to make said user buy a more expensive model, then that user will get cranky; naturally!
I don't understand how the internal business strategy of Apple can be used as some sort of defense against their removal of the FW port. There is no real world reason for removing it.
The FW port is the de facto standard in the industry, and it will continue to be until someone makes a better solution. It is cheap to implement in any machine, and it would make the Macbook a lot more attractive. These are indisputable facts (just so there's no more confusion).
Yes, cheap home video equipment will probably have USB output, but for people who work with audio/video for a living (or even as a hobby), this is completely uninteresting. We have and will always have (until the aforementioned better solution) equipment that use FW -- because it is better -- and because it's better, the industry uses it exclusively.
Now, the big deal about this whole ordeal is that with this business strategy, Apple will help marginalize their very own superiour standard by (1) put a lot of computers without FW on the market, and (2), force artists over on solutions made by people who couldn't care less about artists (I actually used to think that Apple like creative users, I certainly don't anymore).
Like many of us have already said, artist are not rich. How do you think most of us work? In a office that pays through the nose for all of the 'pro' equipment? No, friend, we pay for it ourselves. I have a studio with a few friends of mine, and one of the reasons for us doing it together is that we can't afford tons of equipment on our own. We have to keep regular jobs on the side, eat and live cheaply, just to afford our instruments and other gear. This is the reality of being an artist. There's no going on shopping spree's with the company card.
Apple is selling the idea that the Macbook Pro is something significantly more than the Macbook. It isn't. It's just marketing segmentation. A ploy to get naïve people to throw away money they could have used on something else. And there sure as hell aren't any artist that want to use money on some arbitrary magical hardware when he or she could have used that money on something important.
You want to know why I won't stand idly by while people spread misinformation about this move?
It will be a huge problem for a lot of people, most of them already struggling. Most of you people talking about 'simmering down' do so with no other reason than disparaging the fuzz so that you can feel happy about your idea of the product as a work of perfection. It's anti-consumerism just for the sake of it. Eating **** so that you can be a lapdog of the holy apple. Being a consumer is about being vocal and voting with your money. If capitalism is to work in any sense of the word, the very least one has to do is not passively take crap like this. Make no mistake about it, this move is pure marketing, and it has absolutely no positive sides; and that you somehow try to combat people reacting to this is not only baffling, but it's a fundamental problem welling out of the kind of marketing Apple is a innovator of. It's not only sad, it's annoying on the behalf of all the people that will suffer for it.
That's why!
You'll have to excuse me for being harsh, but this actually is important, and I hope more people open their eyes to it.
A Dell XPS 1330 has a Firewire connector and is a bit cheaper than the MacBook (LED Screen included), unfortunately it does not run OSX (natively?). So Firewire only for Pro's in Apple land? I do not think that is a good idea...
Just got 2 Western Digital MyBook Terabyte drives with Firewire connector and a FireDTV I like Firewire.
Just got 2 Western Digital MyBook Terabyte drives with Firewire connector and a FireDTV
I like Firewire.The original 15" MacBook Pro lost the FireWire 800 port of its 15" PowerBook predecessor. It has since returned.
That said, I'm not sure I expect FireWire to return to the MacBook any time soon.