The return of the Newton

[MattInOz]

Yeah, but I imagine there will be a problem justifying a £400 tablet,(This is Apple after all) when a 50p A5 notebook could do the same job, and would be 'compatible' with everything.... Heck, people could even pritt-stick other notes and images in, without fear of their investment being ruined by a software update!

Notepads are cheap and the battery doesn't run out but think hours in double handling handwrtten notes into a emailable form, for distribution to those at the meeting. I'd say a two hour meeting write up takes 2 hours less then half that editing.
Or time spent searching for something you wrote down. or any number of things these sorts of devices have promissed but have never been able to deliver because the time wasn't

yes but think of the investment lost to split coffee, oh wait that would kill both. but at lest one has backed it self up.

Sure it's not for everyone.

 

[JobsRules]

DOn't mess about with gimmicks Apple - just make a rip-off of the Psion Series 5 with Mac OS X or OS X embedded on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_5

This PDA was massively more useful than Palms and pen-based products. IT was (jacket) pocket sized and had a near touch-typable keyboard. I wrote 3,000 word essays on this thing at college all the time. A totally gimmick-free gadget.

 

[wizard]

PDA - NO, something better yes

Here is my 2 cents.


As was pointed out very very early in this thread the PDA as it was known is DEAD. That doesn't mean that the PDA of the future has to die before birth.

A modern PDA would be a very similar device to a iPhone, that is it must support some sort of RF voice communications. The big attraction for the PDA iPhone would be the much larger screen, hopefully better allotment of RAM and Storage also.

That is the physical device, which I believe that Apple could deliver anytime they wanted. The problem is for such a device to be successful it would need to be accessible to developers. At least as a PDA as an iPod it is pretty obvious that that customers base there will put up with a locked machine. A PDA user wouldn't as they would have varying needs for different software packages. Given Apples current attitude this device would be a failure, if delivered with the same amount of non support that the iPhone and iPod get.

The key considerations in this market (PDA) are size, compatibility and availability of apps, and a machine sufficient to run the apps on battery power. Apple has the ability and technology to deliver all of this, but is currently unwilling. Frankly I also see them slowly losing the trust of the development community. The lack of a development platform for the iPhone and the Touch is really not helping Apple at all. The Touch has so much potential that is is almost heart breaking that Apple has so restricted access to the machine. Even more so with the iPhone as people want open and capable hardware. Even Motorola is starting to realize that a real OS and development system on a Cell makes sense.

Now I expect that some will try to coat the iPhones good sales figures at launch with success for the iPhone. I think it is a mistake to say the least. Lets face it there is a very large segment of the population that would buy anything form Apple upon release, even if Apple went about repackaging cow dung. As long as it had a box with a shinny Apple logo and an excessively high price they would be all in. Looked at objectivity the iPhone is innovative but certainly not feature rich, there are only so many people that as so stupid that there only concern is an easy to use phone.

Dave

 

[wizard]

Perhaps this explains the resistance to 3rd-party apps (ok, I don't believe the whole "crash the network" reason that SJ gave at the Sermon on the ...I mean the iPhone introduction). It seems like apple is deepening its differentiation between the different iPod lines, and perhaps the future PDA, if it comes, will be a more computer-like platform with real productivity apps.

I would not be surprised if you are correct with you point of view above. In fact I suspect that you might be hitting 100% here. Unfortunately this is an attitude that a lot of people, business people especially, aren't likely to accept. Artificial restrictions on what code can run where is a big no no.

I didn't understand why the iPhone, with a virtual keyboard, didn't also include some equivalent to documents-to-go --it would make more business sense if Apple is saving that functionality for a killer PDA with real computing capabilities (I don't mean web surfing and email, I mean an SDK and productivity applications).

I can only hope that the issue here is one of lack of development time. That is Apple may be wiling to deliver a SDK when they get the libraries for these devices to the point of the original goal. There are some obvious short comings with the iPhone and even the Touch that indicate to me rushed products. The cut and past issue being just one of them.

It is nice to dream this way but frankly I don't think it is Apple's current business model. The Touch is what drove me to thinking this way. This device could have been left open to easy to install apps, some what like the iPhone today, but instead Apple went in the opposite direction. They made access to the device more difficult and removed hardware that could have made the machine much more useful. In other words the trend seems to be in the opposite direction. Unless you are a very large developer of Apple products it seems like you are officially locked out. This totally misses the whole point of having a PDA like device or eve a smart phone for that matter. That is mainly being the ability to configure as you need.

By the way I understand and keep up with the hackers and the jail breaks and such, but this being a non official and a non supported activity isn't a valid argument for the iPhone. Same with the Touch, if access is gain there is still doesn't mean a lot because of the unofficial nature.

Dave

 

[wizard]

I
If Apple did this people will be angry that their iPhone or iPod Touch wouldn't have the same features, when they actually could because it's just software. Then again your average consumer may not know that, but having too many MultiTouch devices that look like the iPhone or iPod Touch would also confuse consumers. Too many devices that's only big, big difference is software? Seems like a disaster to me.

Apple has already done this with the Touch and people don't like it. This is really bad in my opinion as Apple could have had a whole family of compatible and accessible device. Instead they choose to get real petty and controlling. It isn't th size of the family that is the problem but rather the artificial restrictions on use.

The problem is no matter how much Apple jerks its customer base around they seem to sell their product like hot cakes. I don't see a way out of this, at least not until the customers stop bending over and grabbing their collective ankles. Unfortunately any suggest that Apple's customers should start demanding more open systems falls on death ears.


Dave

 

[atarin]

lol, I saw a guy on the train today with a standalone PDA wondering to myself how many people actually use those things anymore. Phones these days seem to offer all the functionality the standalone PDA offered, and then some. Granted, most phones don't have a good interface to interact with it...

I still use a Palm LifeDrive (I actually got one of the few that didn't self destruct). I'm a nurse on a pediatric cardiac surgery unit, and I can't use my iPhone on the floor. It's banned by the hospital. Cell phones can interfere with cardiac monitors - *not* a good thing! I know the iPhone does, I forgot it was in my pocket one day, and I witnessed the interference it causes with the monitors.

The Unbound iPhone web-based apps are great, but I can't turn off the phone part of the iPhone and keep the WiFi available. I suppose I could buy an iPod Touch to replace my LifeDrive, but I use Epocrates Essentials (not just the web-based drug app) and a nursing procedure app more than anything, and those are apps that aren't available on the web. So unless Apple, Epocrates, and Skyscape get together and fix that little problem, I still need a dedicated PDA.

I see that most of you think that the PDA is dead, but PDAs can help RNs and MDs save lives. The PDA is not dead for us. I need to be able to just whip my PDA out of my pocket and look stuff up at the bedside, whether it's to check if a drug dose is safe for my pediatric patient, or to refresh my memory on a procedure for a skill I haven't had to perform in a long time. Some hospitals have patient charting, lab results, and imaging available to WiFi enabled PDAs. And most hospitals do still ban cell phone use, even by RNs and MDs. I hope that Apple *is* making a new PDA! I'd buy it in a heartbeat! My LifeDrive has 8 GB, but it's huge! Way more than I really want to carry in my pocket, but I need the disk space!

I'm also one of those people who would rather read a book for myself rather than have someone read to me (I'm not in preschool!). I like having an e-book reader at my disposal. It's nice to read novels on the train to put the sadness of so many sick children and their families out of my mind for awhile.

 

[-hh]

lol, I saw a guy on the train today with a standalone PDA wondering to myself how many people actually use those things anymore...

I still carry a Palm T3.

Basic reason why is because the UI for its calendar is much, much better than the one on my Blackberry.

Thus, I synchronize them both through MS-Outlook and use the BB for email, cellphone, etc, and the Palm for actually making appointments.

Yes, its a bit of a nuisance, but I loathe the BB's calendar UI that much, as I was spoiled by how nice the Palm's UI worked for me.

The Palm also does double-duty as my alarm clock while on the road, since it is much easier than my BB to change time zones on it too.


-hh

 

[gutefahrt]

Here is my 2 cents.


"...there is a very large segment of the population that would buy anything form Apple upon release, even if Apple went about repackaging cow dung. As long as it had a box with a shinny Apple logo and an excessively high price they would be all in..."
Dave

Ohhh. You mean like the iPod Hi-Fi. You know, that $350 polished cow dung that a "very large segment of the population" ignored.

 

[natejohnstone@g]

iPhone PDA, not Newton!

Apple does not need an ultraportable AND a pda in it's lineup.
It makes much more sense to have a version of the iPhone that is also a fully functional PDA. This will be the iPhone that caters to business users.

Ultimately, there should be 3 iPhones:

A smaller "iPhone Nano" that is just a phone + iPod @ $200
The current "iPhone" @ $400
The "iPhone Pro" @ $600
The Pro is the current iPhone plus a fully usable mini OSX with Office, Exchange, etc. etc. (i.e. all the things that you should be able to do with the current iPhone but can't)

 

[emotion]

Apple does not need an ultraportable AND a pda in it's lineup.
It makes much more sense to have a version of the iPhone that is also a fully functional PDA. This will be the iPhone that caters to business users.

Ultimately, there should be 3 iPhones:

A smaller "iPhone Nano" that is just a phone + iPod @ $200
The current "iPhone" @ $400
The "iPhone Pro" @ $600
The Pro is the current iPhone plus a fully usable mini OSX with Office, Exchange, etc. etc. (i.e. all the things that you should be able to do with the current iPhone but can't)

One of the major themes in this thread is that you'd need a bigger screen for the 'pro'. Hence a PDA.

You might also need an intel cpu for those full blown apps. You need more size to house that.

I'd say 6" WS should be ok.

 

[kuebby]

Ultimately, there should be 3 iPhones:

A smaller "iPhone Nano" that is just a phone + iPod @ $200
The current "iPhone" @ $400
The "iPhone Pro" @ $600
The Pro is the current iPhone plus a fully usable mini OSX with Office, Exchange, etc. etc. (i.e. all the things that you should be able to do with the current iPhone but can't)

But how useful are full-scale apps going to be on a 3.5" screen? And what is going to be different about the "iPhone nano" (since I doubt you'll get either multi-touch or much flash memory for $200)?

 

[blouis79]

Yes, yes, yes,...
This thing is the touch OS running on low power x86 chip not an ARM like iPod or iPhone.
It's size is a constrained by the largest high res screen they can multitouch and
yet large enough to cool and ultra-low power processor and shoehorn in decent battery life.
If they can get around the same power of a G4 1ghz this thing will rock.
and if it runs OS X on x86 they don't Apple to worry about publically supporting API's on two platforms.

Yeeeeessssssssss.....

Market - schoolkids+?

In which case optical drive not needed. 1000x768 pixels on a pad as thin as an iPod Touch and the size of a paperback book. Maybe a separate thin dock with optical and hard drive and ports via wireless connection 802.11n.

 

[godslabrat]

I would totally be in for an Apple-designed PDAish device that allowed me to browse the web and edit Word documents. If it offered minimal iTunes support, that'd be just super (and I'm sure it would).

The catch is, I couldn't make much use of the device if it incorporated a cell phone or a digital camera, since those are not allowed in my office building. That's why I'm pulling for something OTHER than iPhone 2.0. I have a cell phone, thank you very much, and I'm not a big fan of the all-in-one idea. There are too many cases where I need to use one and leave the other.

 

[mrthieme]

the MacBook touch

Since the iphone and touch are closed to developers it would be nice to see a multitouch sandbox for them to play in. If we can't customize Steve's precious iphone, maybe a tablet macbook could be the arena where touch is really pushed, then Apple would have a new group of ideas to borrow from and sell through the itunes store as iphone addons.

 

[zarusoba]

I want a stylus

I would be interested if I could at least buy a stylus as an optional extra and sketch and write on the screen. But, Steve doesn't like pens.

 

[Stella]

The Psion 5 was a truely great device. Even today, a lot of pre-installed software on other PDAs / smartphones still can't rival the software that came with the Psion.

Back then, the trend was towards hand recongition touch screen, but Psion had keyboard and touch screen ( lacking handwriting recongition ). Now we've come full circle - the trend is back towards keyboards

Its a shame Psion decided to get out of the PDA market. The smartphone they were making with Ercisson would have been a great device.

DOn't mess about with gimmicks Apple - just make a rip-off of the Psion Series 5 with Mac OS X or OS X embedded on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_5

This PDA was massively more useful than Palms and pen-based products. IT was (jacket) pocket sized and had a near touch-typable keyboard. I wrote 3,000 word essays on this thing at college all the time. A totally gimmick-free gadget.

 

[zap2]

UMPC..or in this case an UMMac

Give us Mac OS X, let use run the OS that Macs run!


And I'm sold

 

[ogee]

Surely the iPhone as it stands isn't far off from being a PDA?

If you ignore the fact you cant edit documents or spreadsheets nor add your own applications (officially) or receive data from other devices then yes.

However as it stands the iPhone unfortunately doesnt cut it. As a video iPod with a phone attached its super, as a phone with PDA functions it sucks.... And it could have (should have) been so much more.

 

[GavinTing]

Ah heck. All technology is the same. You drop it in the toilet bowl and it doesn't function. We should stick with rocks and chisels.

 

[nickane]

The Psion 5 was a truely great device. Even today, a lot of pre-installed software on other PDAs / smartphones still can't rival the software that came with the Psion.

Back then, the trend was towards hand recongition touch screen, but Psion had keyboard and touch screen ( lacking handwriting recongition ). Now we've come full circle - the trend is back towards keyboards

Its a shame Psion decided to get out of the PDA market. The smartphone they were making with Ercisson would have been a great device.

I had 2 of these things over the years and did most of my GCSE, all of my A-Level and 1st year coursework on it. I've never seen an iphone/ipod touch but EPOC32 remains my favourite portable OS. It was definitely the keyboard that made the device tho since it made it stand out above all the windows CE machines with their calculator-type buttons. Multitouch looks great but there is a lot to be said for tactile response.

I dunno about the PSION/Ericsson smartphone, but PSION's software still lives on as Symbian the project they started with Ericsson, which has conversely, proven to be the least stable portable OS I've ever seen. It is indeed a shame they don't make machines anymore.

 

[LizKat]

Ah heck. All technology is the same. You drop it in the toilet bowl and it doesn't function. We should stick with rocks and chisels.

Too late. We're almost to the brain-to-iPod-charger stage, I want to try that out before we go back to the stone age. I hope some over-achieving head of state doesn't push the play button on the Big One before I get to stare at my iPod to top off its battery instead of plugging into something.

 

[mrsebastian]

"A shockingly large number of companies have invested millions of dollars developing products in this category. They've shipped dozens of gadgets hyped as the Next Big Thing. But the buying public has responded with indifference."

i'd like to thank the author for saving me the trouble of reading this article, by summing it up in the first paragraph

 

[Rantipole]

I still carry a Palm T3.

Basic reason why is because the UI for its calendar is much, much better than the one on my Blackberry.
Yes, its a bit of a nuisance, but I loathe the BB's calendar UI that much, as I was spoiled by how nice the Palm's UI worked for me.

I also still carry a Palm, but that is more because I am the opposite of an "early adopter"!

hh- Does the Palm Treo have a decent calendar? I'm guessing you use a BB because your IT dept does not support the Palm?

 

[tjcampbell]

Jobs is greedy. The iPhone is steps from a PDA, but he'll keep a few apps off it and force us into buying this other device. I think this guy laughs himself to sleep at night the same way Tom Cruise does.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

You're probably right. But I'd buy it because of the larger screen and extra functionality.. I'd have second thoughts if it couldn't be used as a phone, however.. I don't want to carry around two portable devices...

Jobs is greedy. The iPhone is steps from a PDA, but he'll keep a few apps off it and force us into buying this other device. I think this guy laughs himself to sleep at night the same way Tom Cruise does.