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'The Samsung Galaxy S6 Sales Disaster'

The-Real-Deal82 said:
It's not that you are asking for accuracy but the way in which you are going after this fella with some sort of quest to try and expose him as a liar that is bizarre. His claims seem to fit in with others I have read posts from so I wouldn't waste my time trying to force him to prove it. I probably use my standard iPhone 6 for about 4 to 5 hours a day from a full charge and light the screen up every 30 minutes to check for notifications. I couldn't prove that I don't think, nor would I be too bothered if someone didn't believe me.

In this environment we are pretty anonymous so we can do nothing but take things at face value. :)
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I don't just take things at face value, though, when they conflict with things like how GSMArena got a little over 9hrs with only one page reloading every ten seconds and being really close to the router. He's somehow getting more than that with two tabs. It just seems bizarre, and thus I ask questions.
 
Michael Goff said:
I don't just take things at face value, though, when they conflict with things like how GSMArena got a little over 9hrs with only one page reloading every ten seconds and being really close to the router. He's somehow getting more than that with two tabs. It just seems bizarre, and thus I ask questions.
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Who reloads a tab every 10 seconds? I open a page, read it and then move onto the next. I also have my screen rather dimly lit. Who knows what GSM Arena did but the 6+ has the best battery life out of any mobile phone I've used. I don't see how the S6 can comfortably beat it, I really don't.

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The strange thing here is that they reckon the 4.7" iPhone 6 can web browse for almost 1.5 hours longer than the 6+. That's plain nuts. If the 6+ can stream video for longer than the standard i6, and it has a bigger battery, then how can web browsing be so inferior.
 
sunking101 said:
Who reloads a tab every 10 seconds? I open a page, read it and then move onto the next. I also have my screen rather dimly lit. Who knows what GSM Arena did but the 6+ has the best battery life out of any mobile phone I've used. I don't see how the S6 can comfortably beat it, I really don't.

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The strange thing here is that they reckon the 4.7" iPhone 6 can web browse for almost 1.5 hours longer than the 6+. That's plain nuts. If the 6+ can stream video for longer than the standard i6, and it has a bigger battery, then how can web browsing be so inferior.
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I generally do when I'm surfing MacRumors. >_>
 
sunking101 said:
Well yes, certain sites at certain times but generally I'm not loading sites every 10 seconds for ten hours.
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Neither am I, but that's because I haven't found a phone that lasts that long for me. Try half that, but that's likely to do with the fact that I'm switching tabs and trying to absorb as much news as possible over my short breaks.
 
Michael Goff said:
It could be, but let's look at this:
http://masterherald.com/samsung-galaxy-s6-to-hit-the-market-in-20-countries-on-april-11/11039/

And then we factor in the S5
http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/24/samsung-galaxy-s5-launching-on-april-11-in-150-countries/

That's a HUGE difference.
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You're right it is a huge difference and mainly due to manufacturing shortages according to some sources. It said the S6 will ship to 20 countries 'initially' and 'first' so that suggests in the near future this will be extended to more countries. The S5 shipped to 150 countries and the iPhone 6's shipped to 115 countries.

It does seem when we compare these devices against each other we have different sets of excuses depending on who is defending who. The iPhone competes at the high end of the market against other flagship devices but its more than welcome to lump every single budget phone into the equation to suggest it sells less. Then in this instance the S6 sells 10 million units and this is because it only ships to 20 countries including 4 of the worlds biggest mobile markets. I don't think we will ever be able to determine a clear cut answer to this one because the goalposts can be easily moved to give a reasonable answer.
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
You're right it is a huge difference and mainly due to manufacturing shortages according to some sources. It said the S6 will ship to 20 countries 'initially' and 'first' so that suggests in the near future this will be extended to more countries. The S5 shipped to 150 countries and the iPhone 6's shipped to 115 countries.

It does seem when we compare these devices against each other we have different sets of excuses depending on who is defending who. The iPhone competes at the high end of the market against other flagship devices but its more than welcome to lump every single budget phone into the equation to suggest it sells less. Then in this instance the S6 sells 10 million units and this is because it only ships to 20 countries including 4 of the worlds biggest mobile markets. I don't think we will ever be able to determine a clear cut answer to this one because the goalposts can be easily moved to give a reasonable answer.
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What is this moving goalposts? I'm simply stating that we can't call the S6's numbers disastrous given the information.
 
I think many people are waiting for the either the Iron Man or the Green Ranger version of the Edge. No Joke.
 
Sevanw said:
It's my belief that the blind followers of any brand are the ones that hurt innovation. They enable these companies to give inferior hardware at the price of premium hardware. The premium price for inferior hardware is sold under the guise of a superior user experience. Sorry but I'm not that weak minded to let a company sell me their subjective bs. So again, if people demanded the price to match the hardware (facts), they wouldn't allow these companies to recycle their outdated hardware and the consumers in the industry will be better off. A premium user experience is a given. Don't charge me for your idea of a premium user experience. Blind followers are the worst thing to happen to any industry.
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Don't blame 20% of the smartphone market for doing what the other 80% could not - make OEMs realize that great design and the user experience matters in both hardware and software.

It used to be that consumers were saddled with both crappy hardware and software precisely because OEMs didn't care two hoots about the user experience. Apple completely and thoroughly broke that rule and changed the world, because today, even companies like Microsoft are placing more emphasis on design than ever. And consumers are better off as a result.
 
Abazigal said:
Don't blame 20% of the smartphone market for doing what the other 80% could not - make OEMs realize that great design and the user experience matters in both hardware and software.

It used to be that consumers were saddled with both crappy hardware and software precisely because OEMs didn't care two hoots about the user experience. Apple completely and thoroughly broke that rule and changed the world, because today, even companies like Microsoft are placing more emphasis on design than ever. And consumers are better off as a result.
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Wow, completely missed my point. You're exactly the consumer I'm referring to. Thanks for proving my point.
 
Sevanw said:
Wow, completely missed my point. You're exactly the consumer I'm referring to. Thanks for proving my point.
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And what's your point - that apple customers are blind because we supposedly pay more for less?

I disagree. My Apple products are serving me very well and have more than paid for themselves in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems.

I disagree - it's precisely of customers like us that we, and the rest of the industry by extension, get to enjoy nice things. Rather than hold back the industry like you claim.
 
Abazigal said:
Don't blame 20% of the smartphone market for doing what the other 80% could not - make OEMs realize that great design and the user experience matters in both hardware and software.

It used to be that consumers were saddled with both crappy hardware and software precisely because OEMs didn't care two hoots about the user experience. Apple completely and thoroughly broke that rule and changed the world, because today, even companies like Microsoft are placing more emphasis on design than ever. And consumers are better off as a result.
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Samsung et al know exactly what the Android software is, and what it does. They can then choose to develop hardware to run it. Likewise Google design Android to be exactly how they want it to be. Who are Apple to say that their software and their hardware are better? That's a subjective thing. Also, why should Apple charge extra because they feel that their 'user experience' is better? So we can build a phone using old tech, put some lower functioning software on it that we claim is the best, then slap a large price tag on it and market it as the best user experience out there? People lap this up because the Apple brand is somehow cool and heck, it's expensive so why wouldn't it be the best? I don't see how design comes into it, because the iPhone 6 isn't really a looker and the other manufacturers match it for build quality. Also, iOS8 doesn't look any nicer than Lollipop. So how does Apple design win this one? Once it did for sure but now, in 2015?
 
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Abazigal said:
And what's your point - that apple customers are blind because we supposedly pay more for less?

I disagree. My Apple products are serving me very well and have more than paid for themselves in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems.

I disagree - it's precisely of customers like us that we, and the rest of the industry by extension, get to enjoy nice things. Rather than hold back the industry like you claim.
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Seriously, no offence, but I don't debate touchy feely BS. I prefer to live in a world of facts. As soon as a company can sell you on the subjective bs, you're done as a consumer.
 
Sevanw said:
Seriously, no offence, but I don't debate touchy feely BS. I prefer to live in a world of facts. As soon as a company can sell you on the subjective bs, you're done as a consumer.
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Most of what consumers buy is subjective: vanilla vs chocolate? And if your opinion that if consumers buy partly based on subjectivity and "their done" nobody is going to change your mind, nor should they. Consumers buy for their reasons, not yours.
 
sunking101 said:
Samsung et al know exactly what the Android software is, and what it does. They can then choose to develop hardware to run it. Likewise Google design Android to be exactly how they want it to be. Who are Apple to say that their software and their hardware are better? That's a subjective thing. Also, why should Apple charge extra because they feel that their 'user experience' is better? So we can build a phone using old tech, put some lower functioning software on it that we claim is the best, then slap a large price tag on it and market it as the best user experience out there? People lap this up because the Apple brand is somehow cool and heck, it's expensive so why wouldn't it be the best? I don't see how design comes into it, because the iPhone 6 isn't really a looker and the other manufacturers match it for build quality. Also, iOS8 doesn't look any nicer than Lollipop. So how does Apple design win this one? Once it did for sure but now, in 2015?
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They don't charge extra, they charge based on what the market will pay. People are willing to pay Apple prices, so be it. It's called business.

This whole Apple is seen as cool argument is old. Maybe in its infancy but Apple has made overall good/great products to get to where they are now. What I see now is a lot of Samsung marketing. Mtv awards, lebron, jayz, massive spending on marketing to show the Galaxy/note as a "cool" device. Yet it doesn't slow the iPhone.
 
Sevanw said:
Seriously, no offence, but I don't debate touchy feely BS. I prefer to live in a world of facts. As soon as a company can sell you on the subjective bs, you're done as a consumer.
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Even facts can lie, or at least not tell the whole picture.

In case you have forgotten how the A7 processor turned out to be faster than snapdragon chips despite having fewer cores and lower clock speeds.

To me, Apple also completes objectively based on specs. It's just that their specs cannot be so readily quantified and distilled into a number on a spec sheet. Where do you rank a 8 mp camera with wider pixels against a normal, off-the-shelf 13 or 16mp camera? That they can both result in photos of comparable quality should tell you that numbers in a vacuum are meaningless. Things like smoother scrolling in a mobile browser can only be felt, but it is nevertheless a very real benefit that people can experience and appreciate.

If anything, I am thinking that the whole problem is due to people like you, who shop purely on specs without paying any attention to the end user experience. And so that prompts OEMs to engage in meaningless spec wars, even if those added specs have no benefit to the end user experience, or worse, even harm it.

Thankfully, Apple has rescued us from those dark times by reaching people, and companies by extension, to care about good design. I shudder to think what would have become of these industries had OEMs continued to market based solely on specs and price, while ignoring the quality of their hardware and software.
 
Samsung should create a new premium brand (like Toyota did with Lexus) and leave their Samsung name to their budget devices. They will always be associated with ugly cheap plastic products so will never reach to high end status they so desperately want.
 
sunking101 said:
Samsung et al know exactly what the Android software is, and what it does. They can then choose to develop hardware to run it. Likewise Google design Android to be exactly how they want it to be. Who are Apple to say that their software and their hardware are better? That's a subjective thing. Also, why should Apple charge extra because they feel that their 'user experience' is better? So we can build a phone using old tech, put some lower functioning software on it that we claim is the best, then slap a large price tag on it and market it as the best user experience out there? People lap this up because the Apple brand is somehow cool and heck, it's expensive so why wouldn't it be the best? I don't see how design comes into it, because the iPhone 6 isn't really a looker and the other manufacturers match it for build quality. Also, iOS8 doesn't look any nicer than Lollipop. So how does Apple design win this one? Once it did for sure but now, in 2015?
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Why shouldn't Apple?

This is a capitalistic society. Each company creates a product, decides the price to charge, then leaves it to the market to sort it out for themselves. The consumer chooses at the end of the day how he wants to spend his money. Nobody is pointing a gun at his head and forcing him to buy an Apple product.

From its sales, Apple has shown that outstanding design and integration can drive markets, moreso than price and specs. Yet instead of trying to study and understand this phenomena, people just choose to dismiss, even deny and denigrate it.

Go figure.
 
Abazigal said:
If anything, I am thinking that the whole problem is due to people like you, who shop purely on specs without paying any attention to the end user experience. And so that prompts OEMs to engage in meaningless spec wars, even if those added specs have no benefit to the end user experience, or worse, even harm it.

Thankfully, Apple has rescued us from those dark times by reaching people, and companies by extension, to care about good design. I shudder to think what would have become of these industries had OEMs continued to market based solely on specs and price, while ignoring the quality of their hardware and software.
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Totally agree. With Apple we would still be using those ugly grey cheap plastic Windows desktop computers and cheap ugly plastic laptops.

I accidentally left my iPhone 6+ at home today so had to use my Note 4 which I also carry with me. When I got home I switched back to the iPhone and easily noticed how much nicer the iPhone is to use as a device forsimple tasks like websurfing.
 
Abazigal said:
From its sales, Apple has shown that outstanding design and integration can drive markets, moreso than price and specs. Yet instead of trying to study and understand this phenomena, people just choose to dismiss, even deny and denigrate it.

Go figure.
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Which markets is Apple driving with outstanding design and integration vs price?
If you are referring to iPhones, the only countries with any significant iPhone marketshare are all subsidy markets, which completely contradicts your statement. In countries where the iPhone and flag ship Android phones are similarly priced Apple has next to nil marketshare (save for China. It is the one country that defies this phenomina).

If you are referring to iPads, the only sales we have seen in the last 2 years have been declining, with lower priced Mini's outselling higher priced Air's. Price and competition from competing Android tablets has demolished Apple's early lead in the tablet market.

If you are referring to Macs, Apple has never been a market leader to drive anything. They did influence the wedge style for the ultra-portable laptop though.

If you are referring to Apple TV, accessories or any other product Apple makes, including software, they have never been in a position to drive the industry forward. In fact, they usually wait to add tech based on what the industry is shown as being popular.

Lastly, we have the Apple Watch. While a few million Apple users will buy this product (simply because they have no other alternative available to them), time will tell if the watch has any influence on the market as a whole. But based off sales data (after the first hour of pre-orders), sales are looking pretty pathetic. Will have to wait and see if sales pick up, once people can buy one in an Apple Store or a Best Buy.

P.S. Don't forget, Apple is really just a one product company. The iPhone accounts for over 70% of all Apple's profits.
 
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