Renting is the way to go. I use Amazon or Chegg, they've been lifesavers. You can also get away with the international editions with the exception of access codes, manuals, etc.,.
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The Scam that is College Textbooks
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Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Despite appearances, that is not quite true, I regret to have to report. There are still quite a few texts - and books - that one can only acquire in a form between two (preferably reassuringly solid) covers ...
There are so many ways to take advantage of this flawed system. It's been a few years for me... but these are the various steps you could take.
1. Buy used, and then sell back. Amazon is great for this.
2. Rent online (bigwords.com is the best tool for this to compare)
3. Find PDFs online (for the most popular chemistry/biology/calculus, etc, it's pretty easy, if you know where to look)
4. Ask the prof if an older version is ok
5. Most colleges have an online book exchange on Facebook, where students will sell for cheap
6. Take advantage of the book store return policy and use the given syllabus. If you're taking Calc II and have a book that has 1-3, figure out what chapters you need exactly. Go to the library and scan them into PDFs. Most good universities these days have these fast scanners that can auto split pages and such. Then return the book the next day, etc
7. Split the book with a friend in the class
8. Borrow a buddy's book, scan the stuff you need, and then give it back to him.
9. Get to know the prof in his/her office hours. He/she might have an extra copy they'll let you borrow if need be.
However, I've been out of college for a few years now... but one trend I noticed as I was going through my four years is that the professors were becoming much more aware of the costs and how ridiculous they are. Sometimes they "tell" us to get a book for the sake of the administration. But they post basically everything you need to know online, in the form of PDFs, power points, lecture notes, etc. The book was merely an extra tool that you never needed. In my last year of undergrad, I think I only bought 1 textbook... because I had to. Every other class, I didn't bother because the PDFs were online, or the prof was reasonable enough to post everything we needed to know.
If you are buying all of these textbooks new... then you deserve to be taken advantage of
1. Buy used, and then sell back. Amazon is great for this.
2. Rent online (bigwords.com is the best tool for this to compare)
3. Find PDFs online (for the most popular chemistry/biology/calculus, etc, it's pretty easy, if you know where to look)
4. Ask the prof if an older version is ok
5. Most colleges have an online book exchange on Facebook, where students will sell for cheap
6. Take advantage of the book store return policy and use the given syllabus. If you're taking Calc II and have a book that has 1-3, figure out what chapters you need exactly. Go to the library and scan them into PDFs. Most good universities these days have these fast scanners that can auto split pages and such. Then return the book the next day, etc
7. Split the book with a friend in the class
8. Borrow a buddy's book, scan the stuff you need, and then give it back to him.
9. Get to know the prof in his/her office hours. He/she might have an extra copy they'll let you borrow if need be.
However, I've been out of college for a few years now... but one trend I noticed as I was going through my four years is that the professors were becoming much more aware of the costs and how ridiculous they are. Sometimes they "tell" us to get a book for the sake of the administration. But they post basically everything you need to know online, in the form of PDFs, power points, lecture notes, etc. The book was merely an extra tool that you never needed. In my last year of undergrad, I think I only bought 1 textbook... because I had to. Every other class, I didn't bother because the PDFs were online, or the prof was reasonable enough to post everything we needed to know.
If you are buying all of these textbooks new... then you deserve to be taken advantage of
I bought a lot of my undergrad books at the university book store's used section as well, back in the 80s.
When I did my last masters in 2009-2011, I did a lot of what AutoUnion39 suggests (and I found a lot of the Chinese texts I needed online).
It's not the professors who are publishing - it's the publishing houses. The academic authors aren't scamming anyone, and probably getting paid very little for their work.
If you want a clean/pristine book... then this thread shouldn't have been made to complain about the price of textbooks. It is what it is. There are plenty of ways to avoid the hard hit on your wallet.
I'm willing cut elsewhere in my personal budget and pay full price. However, most students can't afford that option even if they wanted to. So this is a worthy topic and people are sharing their ideas/options.
Seems like a waste of money that could be used somewhere else. Most of the written notes/highlights actually turn out to be helpful... especially if you are going back and trying to make study guides around exam/final time.
sviato
macrumors 68020
It's great when some professors publish the text books needed for their class, and you have to buy a new edition because they changed around some paragraphs maybe the older version "outdated".
After first year, I found a "book exchange" website for all the universities in my area where students can buy/sell books. Bought most of mine second hand from students I found on that site.
After first year, I found a "book exchange" website for all the universities in my area where students can buy/sell books. Bought most of mine second hand from students I found on that site.
Zombie Acorn
macrumors 65816
I don't blame the professors that contribute, it's the publishers that are gouging (I worked for one of the largest publishers in the US).
That being said many of my professors were moving to either texts that they had written themselves at the price to produce them or open source/free resources. Obviously this works better for some subjects.
That being said many of my professors were moving to either texts that they had written themselves at the price to produce them or open source/free resources. Obviously this works better for some subjects.
luvmymbpr
macrumors regular
During my days at college, I quickly learned to wait a week before buying books. I had so many professors on day 1 say "you will need this book." Thankfully, I'd still wait and quickly discover we didn't actually need the book.
They are such a ripoff. Even 10-12 years ago I was paying $400-500 on average a semester if I had to load up on all of them.
Then of course selling them back was magical. Purchased for $140? Sell for $2.50. 😡
They are such a ripoff. Even 10-12 years ago I was paying $400-500 on average a semester if I had to load up on all of them.
Then of course selling them back was magical. Purchased for $140? Sell for $2.50. 😡
mrex
macrumors 68040
The Scam that is College Textbooks
they are expensive but... what you need to understand it is that most of those books are not written to masses... i studied natural sciences at the university and all books were written in english (not my mother language) and when i was a student i felt that they are pretty expensives, even overpriced. but now after i graduated i do understand the price better.
if you study math, chem and phys, most of the time you dont need the latest edition of the book. for example when i studied physical chemistry we had a course about quantum mechanics and used a book called Atkins physical chemistry. few years later there was a some new edition called molecular quantum mechanics which was almost the same as the other books. well our professors said that almost any books and edition is enough, they didnt expect student to get the latest edition. if you check e.g. that book called atkins physical chemistry, there is dozen of editions nowadays but basically from 4th or 5th edition the book has been exactly the same... same thing with other courses.. if i didnt have the latest one and it was missing some pages, i just went to a library and took copies..
they are expensive but... what you need to understand it is that most of those books are not written to masses... i studied natural sciences at the university and all books were written in english (not my mother language) and when i was a student i felt that they are pretty expensives, even overpriced. but now after i graduated i do understand the price better.
if you study math, chem and phys, most of the time you dont need the latest edition of the book. for example when i studied physical chemistry we had a course about quantum mechanics and used a book called Atkins physical chemistry. few years later there was a some new edition called molecular quantum mechanics which was almost the same as the other books. well our professors said that almost any books and edition is enough, they didnt expect student to get the latest edition. if you check e.g. that book called atkins physical chemistry, there is dozen of editions nowadays but basically from 4th or 5th edition the book has been exactly the same... same thing with other courses.. if i didnt have the latest one and it was missing some pages, i just went to a library and took copies..
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luvmymbpr
macrumors regular
College isn't a scam. It's just a gigantic ripoff driven by the ease of obtaining student loans. If mortgages were as easy to obtain as student loans, houses would cost 5x as much.
The value of the education is just not there. The only reason most degrees pay off is due to employers insisting you need a bachelors or masters. Why anyone past age 30 needs a degree when they have 8+ yrs of relevant work experience is beyond me. There's a reason that 22yr olds fresh out of college are virtually worthless and require 6-12 months of real world job experience before they have value.
The value of many college degrees is actually in learning how to think in a certain way. The theoretical (and sometimes) practical aspects are of course sometimes vitally important (think engineering or medical educations, for example). But a liberal arts education, sometimes mistakenly thought of as a waste, actually equips graduates to function in a way they couldn't without the education. During a four-year structured course of study, a student's ability to take in, analyse, and use information in a useful and creative way is trained. Your intellectual horizons are broadened during the education, and this adds to the legs you have to stand on, so to speak.
Experience of course plays an important role; you generally do a better job in a profession after you've been at it for a while. But that's only one aspect, and can't replace education.
(I think someone already said something like this in this thread, but it bears repeating.)
Whether or not the whole student loan industry is corrupt is another matter, and probably worth discussion. But it doesn't have anything to do with the value of education in my opinion.
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luvmymbpr
macrumors regular
I understand what you are saying, but I just can't get behind the value of college as it stands right now.
I graduated high school with a great foundation in algebra and just starting calculus. I had a foundation in literature, history, chemistry, biology, and even business classes that helped to manage personal expenses. College should not be 4 more years of the same. A 4 year degree could be easily tuned down to 2 years if you remove the absolutely worthless electives. When going for a tech degree, do you really need world religions, adolescent development, and 18th century world history? No you don't. If you want that stuff, read a book.
However, college is a money making machine. The excuse of "those classes make you a more well rounded individual" is something that people embrace. I don't agree with that. I would have preferred to hit the job market full time 2 years early. The value of 2 years real world, on the job experience simply dominates 2 years of more classes in my opinion.
Again just my opinion. I smile and bite my tongue in interviews when people act impressed over my 2 degrees from a well known school. I personally don't think they prepared me or gave me skills compared to the part time jobs I worked during college.
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
I may have touched on some of those points earlier. Here, what is worth noting is that the much reviled liberal arts degrees actually teach students how to seek out sources, how to research, and how to weigh competing claims in competing sources, and how to make sense of, and critically analyse, much of what they read.
Actually, the skill to research, evaluate and analyse various sources and types of information, and make sense of what it tells you, using material and data to make - or refute - a case or argument is a very valuable skill. You learn to do more (or, you are suppose dot learn to do more) than simply regurgitate what the teacher, or text book tells you.
Actually, I would have thought - given much of what is happening world wide as we write here - that a course in 'world religions' would be of supreme relevance and offer extraordinary 'added-value' in getting to grips with some sort of understanding of why a number of things are happening they way they are just now.
And the 18th century gave us both the French revolution (along with the earlier US revolution) and the Industrial Revolution, twin revolutions which transformed the western world, economically, ideologically, socially and politically, the profound echoes of which are still being felt more than a full two centuries later.
I actually agree with you. My post was provocative, and not very differentiated.
The US debt-based college education is a "scam". It extracts money from people that many of them will never be able to pay back in a reasonable amount of time. Hence, it will make them college-debt serfs.
The real scam with US colleges is that of accreditation and issuing degrees.
You can't get a degree by just KNOWING stuff (and proving it), you can only get it by paying outrageous amounts of money to colleges. THAT is the scandal.
-t
Ha, LOL, seems like I got your attention. Good. 🙂
And I'm glad that you responded in kind - fact free. 😀
But, let me actually redeem my post a little bit.
I admit my post was provocative, and not very differentiated.
Also, it seems like you fell into the trap of assuming I don't value education. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Let's start with college education.
The scam is college education IN THE US. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you seem to be from Europe, and the European college education system is by far not as ****ed up as in the US. Maybe you are not familiar with what's going on here in the US. Many countries in Europe are doing it right, whereas the US is doing it WRONG.
(This is 1st hand experience - my primary education was in Europe, up to the level of an Associates degree equivalent. Later, I completed my Bachelor's Degree and professional certifications in the US.)
The issue with US education is manifold.
Education and knowledge does NOT seem to be the primary driver. Extracting ungodly sums of money from people is.
Education should have become very cheap, almost free by now. The information age and the internet should have done that. Look at initiatives like the Khan Academy. A lot of education can be had for very small cost, or even free.
Of course, the established system (henceforth referred to as "colleges") hates that.
So what they did is make sure of two things:
1) Knowledge and proof of thereof is NOT enough to earn a degree. You need to pay the system (i.e. colleges) to "bestow" that degree upon you. There is no way to get a Bachelors degree the same way as many professional certifications (like a CPA) are awarded - by simply proving in a standardized test that you have the knowledge.
2) In order to be able to extract ungodly sums of money for (often low quality) education, they conjured up a system of making money available to all people via college loans. They got in bed with the government (which now supplies more than 90% of the loans). This endless stream of money is the reason why college cost is growing exponentially.
On the part of the colleges, there is no incentive at all to change and make education more cost efficient. As long as the loans are flowing, they just suck up that money and waste it in egregious ways.
The result is people ending up with student loan debt that they will never be able to pay of in a reasonable amount of time. And because the government enacted laws that student loans can NOT be discharged in personal bankruptcies, student debt holders become government serfs for life. Student loans know have the same status as child support - you will owe it. Period.
Again, I'm not against learning and acquiring knowledge. All that's fine and dandy. The question is: At what cost.
With the cost of today's US college education in mind, liberal arts degrees are NOT a good choice.
(And by liberal arts, I don't mean the BROAD definition that includes math and sciences. I'm referring to majors in the following areas: literature, languages, history, philosophy).
The % of degree holders unemployed is highest for Liberal Arts degrees (tied with architecture):
http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/current_issues/ci20-1.pdf
Another study, again, architecture and history on top:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/unemployment-college-graduates-majors_n_3462712.html
All of that is not surprising. Look at what is happening in the US of the past few years.,
Manufacturing jobs are coming back from overseas. MAKING stuff is actually in vogue again. As well as it should be.
Making stuff is where value gets added and created. The US can't just be a nation of philosophers, bloggers, journalists, historians, artists etc... We need to make stuff that people want to buy / pay money for.
Therefore, it's not surprising that degrees in the area of engineering & science, business & accounting, medicine & biology, construction & manufacturing are very sought after.
-t
I do anything I can to scam the textbook scammers.
My Intermediate Accounting class had a brand new edition for a fun $260. While this book is for two semesters, somewhat minimizing the pain, what really got me was when I compared the original "15th edition" to the "15th - revised!" edition, there's only ONE chapter in a 1200 page book that is updated. ONE! And I haven't been able to confirm if it's a total re-write or just revisions, but I'd put money on the latter.
So thanks to Google, I found a PDF of the 15th (non-revised) edition. For free. That I use instead. I just use work/school to print off chapters and made my own binder edition (which a school/publisher charges 75% for a collection of loose pages in an ordinary binder. Pass.).
My Intermediate Accounting class had a brand new edition for a fun $260. While this book is for two semesters, somewhat minimizing the pain, what really got me was when I compared the original "15th edition" to the "15th - revised!" edition, there's only ONE chapter in a 1200 page book that is updated. ONE! And I haven't been able to confirm if it's a total re-write or just revisions, but I'd put money on the latter.
So thanks to Google, I found a PDF of the 15th (non-revised) edition. For free. That I use instead. I just use work/school to print off chapters and made my own binder edition (which a school/publisher charges 75% for a collection of loose pages in an ordinary binder. Pass.).
Is it a fair statement to say that those who over come the high cost of text books are better prepared to acquire a job?
arogge
macrumors 65816
The school textbook prices are really out-of-hand, and the prices have been going up as the market value of paper books has decreased. I've found that there are some excellent books about mathematics, computer science, and many other topics that are still priced affordably, if they're not used as school textbooks. If it's a school textbook, the prices more than double while the overall quality of the written text tends to decline as a usable reference.
luvmymbpr
macrumors regular
Not disagreeing, but you don't need to spend $3,000 per class and waste 15 weeks when a book can get you there. Self-studying calc or medical topics is hard, and a class is invaluable. However, history does not require a class.
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Yeah I think we are on the same side of this debate. I have such negative feelings towards the current US college machine.