The Top Gear MEGATHREAD!!!!

[iGav]

The V6 installed was IMO a better engine for the job,

It was a flawed engine engine though... lacking off boost torque and flexibility that could've been overcome had they employed sequential turbo's like those in the Porsche 959... the XJ220's lag is legendary. Plus they sound ****.

The XJ220 will be forever remembered as a car of compromises, instead of what potentially could've been the greatest supercar of it's era.

 

[Sly]

The TR was a boxer not a vee wasn't it? Surely it would've had a lower CofG.

It was a boxer an as you say, but as igav said it was mounted too high, I understand it was even worse on the 512M?

It was a flawed engine engine though... lacking off boost torque and flexibility that could've been overcome had they employed sequential turbo's like those in the Porsche 959... the XJ220's lag is legendary. Plus they sound ****.

The XJ220 will be forever remembered as a car of compromises, instead of what potentially could've been the greatest supercar of it's era.

It certainly was a flawed engine for road use, I hear it really gave a thump in the back when it came on boost though What ever happened to the 959, an engineering masterpiece by Porsche that seems to have been forgotten. Even the engine was in the right place! shame about the looks and the driving dynamics though. It didn’t even make the nomination list in Channel 4’s Greatest 100 Cars Ever http://www.channel4.com/4car/100-greatest/nominees/p.html

 

[iGav]

It was a boxer an as you say, but as igav said it was mounted too high, I understand it was even worse on the 512M?

hmmmm... I do recall reading that they'd lowered it for the TR and later the M, hmmmm. They also used lighter materials in the engine itself to reduce its centre of gravity, not that it was especially high though, everything is relative of course... Lotus Esprit for example.

Ferrari adopted the engine on top of the gearbox originally with the 365 GT4 BB/512 BB, a car which is essentially the same as the subsequent Testarossa/TR/512M. The layout basically allowed them to maintain a shorter wheelbase, and the flat 12 layout allowed them to achieved this without really having a top heavy layout or a long wheelbase.

The Testarossa wasn't the greatest handling car, but Ferrari really did tighten it up with the TR and later the 512M with significant changes to the rear suspension... both should be considered excellent drivers cars, but both require commitment to extract the most from them, as like the very best Ferrari's, they have a nasty sting in the tail for the unexpectant.

It certainly was a flawed engine for road use, I hear it really gave a thump in the back when it came on boost though

I'm not really a fan of turbo cars... I dislike their drivability (though they're getting better) I know people that love the kick when the turbo's do come in, but that's only generally noticable because nothing happens until they do.

The 959 twin sequential turbos went a long way to negating the problem, though the best forced induction solution of the time was Lancia's S4, which employed a supercharger for the bottom end, and a turbo that kicked in later, by all accounts a sensational engine, and something which VW are revisiting with their new dual charger engine.

What ever happened to the 959, an engineering masterpiece by Porsche that seems to have been forgotten. Even the engine was in the right place! shame about the looks and the driving dynamics though. It didn’t even make the nomination list in Channel 4’s Greatest 100 Cars Ever http://www.channel4.com/4car/100-greatest/nominees/p.html

What's the world coming to when a Boxster and Cayenne get nominated over the 959??? muppets

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The XJ220 will be forever remembered as a car of compromises, instead of what potentially could've been the greatest supercar of it's era.

And that's the big problem. Besides, I disagree that the V12 would have been inferior - it would have had tons of torque, even if it was a little down on horsepower. And I don't think that the extra weight would have hurt it that much.

I remember reading an article about a company that Federalized a number of 959s so they could be legally driven on the road in the US....ah here it is - and it actually gives me a reason to like Bill Gates! Well, for a second there anyway.

The 959 is still one of the coolest supercars ever...I can't believe it was overlooked in favor of the boxster and Cayenne.

 

[iGav]

And that's the big problem. Besides, I disagree that the V12 would have been inferior - it would have had tons of torque, even if it was a little down on horsepower. And I don't think that the extra weight would have hurt it that much.

It would've been more drivable that's for sure, even a relatively poor V12. But the financial restraints of Jaguar at the time always meant the project was going to be a let down, (they wanted the V12... but in the end had to make do with an engine that wasn't designed for road use) especially after all the sabre rattling they were doing at the time of it's unveiling in '88... in the end they had to release something to save face, and the lengths they went to, to try and attain the 220 figure were laughable, had the cats remain connected, and the rev limit left as standard, you'd have to guess at no more 205mph.

If you're going to release a supercar, then you don't shoot your mouth off about it until it's actually built (F40, F1) otherwise it could comeback and bite you on the arse.

As for the 959... one of only 3 Porsche's I'd actually want to own. (the others been a 356 and a late '70's 911 Targa)

Still looks fresh today though doesn't it.

 

[joepunk]

And that's the big problem. Besides, I disagree that the V12 would have been inferior - it would have had tons of torque, even if it was a little down on horsepower. And I don't think that the extra weight would have hurt it that much.

I remember reading an article about a company that Federalized a number of 959s so they could be legally driven on the road in the US....ah here it is - and it actually gives me a reason to like Bill Gates! Wel,l for a second there anyway.

The 959 is still one of the coolest supercars ever...I can't believe it was overlooked in favor of the boxster and Cayenne.

Really!, I did not know that there were some 959's that could be driven legally in the U.S.

When I first heard of the boxster, I just could not believe that someone decided on that name. The boxster sort of sounds/looks like a Miata on Codeine to me, sort of anyway.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

If you're going to release a supercar, then you don't shoot your mouth off about it until it's actually built (F40, F1) otherwise it could comeback and bite you on the arse.

Or you could be like Bugatti - promise the moon, and then push beyond the state of the art in order to deliver it - all whilst burning piles of cash like it grows on trees. . The XJ220 could have been another McLaren F1/Veyron, but it was not to be I guess.

As for the 959... one of only 3 Porsche's I'd actually want to own. (the others been a 356 and a late '70's 911 Targa)

Still looks fresh today though doesn't it.

It is beautiful - the 959's styling absolutely has not aged.

I'm also a fan of the late 80's 930, especially in black with the two piece, black/bare metal alloys and whale tail. It's a bit flashy but I like it.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Sorry for the double post - this last episode was a bit boring...but just for the record I managed a 1:41.026 with the NSX at Laguna Seca (arcade mode, "road" tires, no driving aids, manual trans.).

So I'm a tick faster than Clarkson in GT4...but I'll wager that old fart would beat me in the real world.

 

[iGav]

Sorry for the double post -

I thought a double post was a mistake when the same post is posted twice???

this last episode was a bit boring...

Not half fella... I think they have just about enough material to fill a 6 show series, more than that and it turns back into 'Clarkson'

I'm still disappointed that they didn't have Sabine *drools* doing the driving for this series.

but just for the record I managed a 1:41.026 with the NSX at Laguna Seca (arcade mode, "road" tires, no driving aids, manual trans.).

I never thought of giving it a try... when I moochy back home I'll give it some Tommy Two Thumbs... I figure that a 1.38/39 should be on though.

but I'll wager that old fart would beat me in the real world.

I doubt it... Clarkson can't drive for sh*t.

 

[iGav]

I never thought of giving it a try... when I moochy back home I'll give it some Tommy Two Thumbs... I figure that a 1.38/39 should be on though.

Okay, so I couldn't be bothered to wait until I got back home (Tuesday) so to satisfy my curiosity I fired up 'Gran Turismo 2' on my Mac, Laguna Seca, stock NSX, manual, no aids, Gran Turismo mode and bam.... straight into the the 1:35's without even trying... something sus there me thinks.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I thought a double post was a mistake when the same post is posted twice???

Well, it was sort of a "tandem" post then.

Not half fella... I think they have just about enough material to fill a 6 show series, more than that and it turns back into 'Clarkson'

Clarkson gets a bit too much exposure on the programs IMHO. James and Richard need to start beating him in the various contests they always have...

I'm still disappointed that they didn't have Sabine *drools* doing the driving for this series.

I really had my hopes up after Jeremy invited her to come on and be a presenter. Who says the Germans are boring? Not Sabine!

I never thought of giving it a try... when I moochy back home I'll give it some Tommy Two Thumbs... I figure that a 1.38/39 should be on though.

The 1:41 was not my best, I was sloppy on the three corners after the corkscrew...I tried it with "sports:hard" tires (1:38:1) "road" (1:41:026) and "economy" (high 1:47). I don't know what Clarksons settings were so I turned everything off or to their lowest settings. It sucks driving the economy tires.

Is it just me or does the NSXR understeer quite a bit?

I doubt it... Clarkson can't drive for sh*t.

...And neither can I. Although I think I would be more (stupidly) brave than he, due to my youth and the fact that I have no wife or kids.


EDIT: Hmmm, 1:35s right away...I expected you to best me but that's a lot. Still, GT2 is different beast from GT4.

I wonder if running the track in Gran Turismo mode would make a difference (I did arcade). Other than tire wear being on I think it's the same...oh crap, forgot about tire wear.

 

[iGav]

The 1:41 was not my best, I was sloppy on the three corners after the corkscrew...I tried it with "sports:hard" tires (1:38:1) "road" (1:41:026) and "economy" (high 1:47). I don't know what Clarksons settings were so I turned everything off or to their lowest settings. It sucks driving the economy tires.

I look forward to giving it a whirl... I don't think I've driven an NSX in GT4 yet, hmmmmmmm.

I always find the braking point at the Corkscrew to be the major pain in the arse in any car without substantial downforce, I hate the way the rear of the car unloads and gets loose.

The only other corner I dislike is Turn 1, seems to just go on and on and on. Oh and I occasionally f**k up the apex on the the last corner as well.

Is it just me or does the NSXR understeer quite a bit?

It's a bleeding nightmare in Gran Turismo 2 that's for sure... though a lot of that's down to the lack of throttle and steering articulation. hahaha

I've noticed strange oversteer characteristics too... sometimes when the rear gets loose I'll try to catch it with a bit of opposite lock (as you do) and the car seems to regain grip and spears off in the direction of my correction, the thing to do seems to be just ignore instincts and let the car regain grip... very odd though, interesting to see if it's the same in GT4.

 

[iGav]

EDIT: Hmmm, 1:35s right away...I expected you to best me but that's a lot. Still, GT2 is different beast from GT4.

1:41 from a standing start, and then consistant 1:35 (1:35.085 was the best I think) and with a determined effort a 1:33/4 is probably possible. I wouldn't pay much attention to those times myself though... as you say GT2 is very, very different. Though GT1, GT2, and GT3 share essentially the same 'engine' apparently... so if you've got one of those handy... do a lap and see what you think.

I suspect in a road spec NSX, with manual and no aids a 1:38 is probably as about as good as it gets in GT4 as it's leaps and bounds more accurate than the previous versions.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I've noticed strange oversteer characteristics too... sometimes when the rear gets loose I'll try to catch it with a bit of opposite lock (as you do) and the car seems to regain grip and spears off in the direction of my correction, the thing to do seems to be just ignore instincts and let the car regain grip... very odd though, interesting to see if it's the same in GT4.

Unfortunately I've never done any track driving in a real car, but it seems to me that Gran Turismo is a lot more forgiving than real life with respect to throttle input. In a real car smoothness is the key, and you can't simply lift off whenever you realize you are cornering too hot. GT le's you get away with it more I think.

I have all kinds of trouble with the last 3 corners. I have a bad habit of diving for the apex way too early on the second last corner...that's probably the tpughest corner for me behind the corkscrew.

The corkscrew is simple when you are using sticky tires in GT: brake as soon as you crest the hill and see the curbs on the right, and turn in. With "road" or "economy" tires that kind of driving will send you into the wall.

With "road" tires and all aids off I could probably run maybe a 1:35 in GT4, but that would be the limit. My controller is rather beat up which makes things worse.

 

[edesignuk]

For anyone who missed it, the entire episode with the Bugatti is now on Google Video

 

[AlBDamned]

For anyone who missed it, the entire episode with the Bugatti is now on Google Video

I watched the Bugatti episode on Thursday and have to say it's probably the most entertaining road test that's ever been on the show. How can Clarkson possibly get paid to drive a Veyron across Europe?!

You can also imagine old Tiffany Dell seething with jealousy at that one as he rolls out another zafira sri for his "5th Gear" show.

 

[iGav]

With "road" tires and all aids off I could probably run maybe a 1:35 in GT4, but that would be the limit.

I've "upgraded" from the bog standard NSX to the NSX Type S Zero, which is essentially the same BHP as the standard NSX (276), but fractionally lighter, similar in weight to the NSXR I think.

Nailed a 1:31 flat on road tyres, with no aids and manual... and a 1:26.8 on super softs... I reckon that you could nail a 1:29 on roads and 1:24 on super softs, at least I reckon you could on GT2. heheheh.

I'm itching to give it a whirl on GT4 though.

My controller is rather beat up which makes things worse.

hahahahahaha, you ought to try it with a keyboard mate.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Watching some real Olympics now!

Top Gear is in Norway!
... you ARE watching, aren't you??

 

[link92]

Watching some real Olympics now!

Top Gear is in Norway!
... you ARE watching, aren't you??

I wasn't home… Missed a lot of it

Spay painting a mounting… Clever.

 

[MacsRgr8]

It's hilarious!

Let's hope a torrent of this episode will be available soon....

EDIT: awwww that Mini!!!

 

[Applespider]

It's hilarious!

Watching that Mini doing a ski jump was hysterical...

 

[MacsRgr8]

Right... "the" Stig.... WHAT A JUMP!!

Did you read it?
Anni Frid Stig?

 

[edesignuk]

That was. Fan. Bloody. Tastic.

 

[russed]

that was tax payers money, very very well spent. there should be more programmes like this (and less like the rubbish petrolheads programme that is currently on).

what a class episode. the mini bit was by far the funniest. and maybe jeremy with the machine gun.

in the credits at the end, everyone was called bjorn!

 

[MacsRgr8]

(and less like the rubbish petrolheads programme that is currently on).

Yeah.. watching that too...
Rubbish is the correct term.

Didn't surprise me to see the Hamtser on it though...