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the way stacks were supposed to be
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, there's a few things different then, not all are bad though I think.
Dropping a pile of icons to make a stack is nice, they should have kept that in there. Making a folder is indeed a poor substitute. Let's hope somebody finds a setting somewhere that restores that feature.
Renaming a stack - well, it's not exactly hard to rename the folder you made, so that feature is still there really, just not quite as accessible.
Putting stacks on both sides of the dock - I don't know why they put that in in the first place. It breaks the whole point of having two sides of the dock. Sure, you could just put applications in a stack, but once you run them they'd appear in the left side of the dock anyway, and you'd then have two icons. Plus people would put all sorts of crap in there, and then wonder why they can't move apps to the right side... It'd be a mess.
Dropping a pile of icons to make a stack is nice, they should have kept that in there. Making a folder is indeed a poor substitute. Let's hope somebody finds a setting somewhere that restores that feature.
Renaming a stack - well, it's not exactly hard to rename the folder you made, so that feature is still there really, just not quite as accessible.
Putting stacks on both sides of the dock - I don't know why they put that in in the first place. It breaks the whole point of having two sides of the dock. Sure, you could just put applications in a stack, but once you run them they'd appear in the left side of the dock anyway, and you'd then have two icons. Plus people would put all sorts of crap in there, and then wonder why they can't move apps to the right side... It'd be a mess.
Yeah, I didn't think about how you'd know which app was open in an application stack.
But how about this... maybe when you mouse over a stack, if there's an application open inside it, it would appear above the stack? Like how the name of an application appears above the icon when you mouse over. If there's more than one, they could appear side by side, or something.
But that might be confusing.
Hmm.... how about... when you click an app in a stack to open it, it bounces out of the stack, and goes to the right side of the dock, as if you opened an app from the finder that isn't kept in the dock. Or it could even just bounce out and sit beside the stack. And when you close the app, it bounces back into the stack? I think that would be a good way to do it.
Sure, the dock would fill up with open apps, but that way you know what's open at a glance.
And what would happen if you open all apps in a stack? Well the last app to leave the stack would stay put. But let's say you close an app that wasn't the last one to leave... I suppose that app would bounce back to where the stack originally was.
Or maybe once all apps leave a stack, there could be a placeholder for the stack.
Something like that.
But how about this... maybe when you mouse over a stack, if there's an application open inside it, it would appear above the stack? Like how the name of an application appears above the icon when you mouse over. If there's more than one, they could appear side by side, or something.
But that might be confusing.
Hmm.... how about... when you click an app in a stack to open it, it bounces out of the stack, and goes to the right side of the dock, as if you opened an app from the finder that isn't kept in the dock. Or it could even just bounce out and sit beside the stack. And when you close the app, it bounces back into the stack? I think that would be a good way to do it.
Sure, the dock would fill up with open apps, but that way you know what's open at a glance.
And what would happen if you open all apps in a stack? Well the last app to leave the stack would stay put. But let's say you close an app that wasn't the last one to leave... I suppose that app would bounce back to where the stack originally was.
Or maybe once all apps leave a stack, there could be a placeholder for the stack.
Something like that.
Well, not really. Apple's orginal demo of stacks from the Leopard preview showed that you could make a stack from any selected icons. The only difference is that the stack was created on the right side of the dock.
And, in the "What's new in Leopard" section in the Finder's help menu, the description of stacks (which still shows the orginal grass desktop picture) describes stacks as "You can create a stack from any files or folders you frequently use, and keep the stack in the dock for quick access"
By the way, if you have Office installed, you can drag it's folder to the dock to create a stack. Right click the folder and select "sort by:kind" You will get a stack that behaves more or less like the one in the vid. It's the only stack I have in my dock, and, until Apple wakes up, it will remain the only stack in my dock.
Feedback to Apple is the petition that might work:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html
Stacks in 10.5.0+10.5.1 is poo IMHO. Hopefully they'll fix it all soon. I'm getting by with Xmenu for hierarchial folder access (so I don't even have to LOOK at Stacks right now).
Exactly the problem with Stacks. When it has 7 rows of 8 icons each, it isn't that smooth but otherwise, I'd have to keep launching the Applications folder.
I'd prefer to be able to hide away the applications that I won't be using too often.
Well it looks like you picked the perfect forum title for yourself as you must be on drugs because you didn't read the post I replied to on post #16. I brought up the Microsoft thing because no matter how retarded Windows gets especially in Vista people just accept it and keep using Windows.
When Apple comes out with something new and not everyone agrees with the way it is namely Stacks then they make statements like you saying," I expect more out of Apple".
Wow, Microsoft charges $400 for their Ultimate Vista with less features than Mac OS X Leopard which only cost $129 yet the Apple fans always expect more out of Apple.
I mentioned Apple is just another company like Microsoft, HP or anyone else. Take it the way it is. You can rant all you want but you can take Stacks for what it is or leave it or revert back to Tiger, you have a choice.
Surely 'ranting' is a choice too (expressing an opinion is kind of the point of a forum anyway). Or going to http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html and leaving feedback on issues you have, that's a choice too.
What people do or don't expect from Microsoft and how much they charge for their OS is irrelevant here. It's not like we are expecting something out of thin air, Apple previewed features that obviously worked in some form at some stage, and then they took them out and (IMHO...) left Stacks in, in its current, crippled form only because they felt silly removing it entirely after hyping it up already. This coming after the OS had already been delayed because of the iPhone (Apple's own justification), which seems to me has harmed Leopard quite a bit (and maybe it'll be worth it in the end, but that doesn't fix Stacks now).
It'd be bad enough if Stacks didn't offer anything of value new, but the worst part is it actually removes functionality that many of us used in Tiger, without replacing that functionality with something equal or better. It's not even debatable on that point, Stacks offers less functionality than plain old folders in the dock did in Tiger.
It's like someone painted your car and said 'hey, in order to paint the car, I had to make it so the windscreen wipers don't work, you only have one gear and if you want to reverse you have to turn in a circle... but isn't it pretty?!!'
Right, so there are two separate issues at heart here.
1. Apple removed the ability to show folder contents from the dock.
2. Apple's shipping implementation of Stacks is less than what was previewed.
Whether for marketing, aesthetics, or technical reasons, we can only speculate.
I don't really mind that Stacks are less than what was originally promised -- I don't see myself using them that much anyway. As I said before, in their current implementation, "stack view" is just another way of viewing folder content, like Column View or Cover Flow. The only difference is that it is only enabled when you have a folder in the dock. What I DO take issue with is that they took away the hierarchical dock folder feature, which is something I DID use every day. I think most people complaining about Stacks feels the same way. It's not so much about what Stacks could have been that is the problem, but what was taken away in the process.
I am hoping for both issues to be fixed in a future software update.
Yes, the one feature removed was the hierarchy way of diving into the folders. Funny I have viewed so many Mac desktops and many don't even know that the application folder could be put in the dock for access. But anyway I love Stacks because the download folder was what I have needed and I got tired of right clicking or holding down on the mouse to prevent the Finder from opening on my applications folder. I just want to click it and access my apps, easy.
Would you care to elaborate what was shown by Steve Jobs in regards to Stacks that did not end up on the shipping retail version? I watched the video 3 times during his demo and I don't see one single thing different.
I've thought about it a bit more, and there's only really 2 things that have a definite benefit missing:
1. hierarchical stacks, and being able to open a 'sub-stack' of a folder in a stack. That could get confusing, and messy on the screen, but it would be damn handy.
2. being able to drag some random files into a stack to create a new one. As it is, the stack is an actual folder with actual files in it, so if you drag something into it, the original item gets moved. Maybe apple thought this was less confusing? My wife still thinks she can delete stuff she's downloaded by deleting it from the safari downloads window, so they're probably right!
You can still do no. 2 though with a bit of manual work. As an example for the apps folder:
Just create a folder somewhere, call it applications stack.
Select all the app icons in the original applications folder, and click on 'make aliases' in the file menu.
Now drag all of the new aliases (they have an arrow on the icon, and ' alias' at the end of the file name) to your new application stacks folder.
Stick the new folder in the dock.
1. hierarchical stacks, and being able to open a 'sub-stack' of a folder in a stack. That could get confusing, and messy on the screen, but it would be damn handy.
2. being able to drag some random files into a stack to create a new one. As it is, the stack is an actual folder with actual files in it, so if you drag something into it, the original item gets moved. Maybe apple thought this was less confusing? My wife still thinks she can delete stuff she's downloaded by deleting it from the safari downloads window, so they're probably right!
You can still do no. 2 though with a bit of manual work. As an example for the apps folder:
Just create a folder somewhere, call it applications stack.
Select all the app icons in the original applications folder, and click on 'make aliases' in the file menu.
Now drag all of the new aliases (they have an arrow on the icon, and ' alias' at the end of the file name) to your new application stacks folder.
Stick the new folder in the dock.
Hey, don't tell me what I don't get okay. It's the way it is. I am not trying to invent a whole new design of "my way" I'm telling you that's how Apple made it and that's how it is.
Well, it's obviously "Apple like" or Apple wouldn't have made Stacks the way they did. Don't fight me is if I am the culprit. I like Stacks the way it is, it's not perfect but I don't need to reinvent "my way" of how Stacks should be. Remember, you don't have to use it. We live in a world of change and either accept change (because ranting is not going to do anything) or take a look at some alternatives, I hear Microsoft makes a decent OS.
sounds familiar *cough* winfs, kernel rewrite *cough*
Or to put it another way, if all we have to complain about is stacks not working the way we'd like, a shiny dock, and a few fairly minor bugs, feel sorry for the people who ended up with vista. Pretty much all of the big new features were dropped, the interface has changed massively and not always for the better (like leopard, but much more so!), there are major compatibility issues, and a lot of bugs many of which are major (I know somebody who spent 3 days trying to install vista on a vista certified computer, and failed. They had to send it back and get xp, and they are a well qualified engineer too.)
Damn, I missed that little change. It used to be a lot more useful than it is now. The idea before was that instead of cluttering up you HDD with extra folders one could easily make a stack of similar files or programs that one wanted easy access too. Who knows, the old way might make a return in a future update. Stacks as it is now is pretty useless.
No, because you DONT GET IT. Bringing up irrelevant points about windows does not prove against the fact that Apple did not deliver stacks as previewed. As a result stacks does not deliver the experience that I and obviously a few others would appreciate and use.
Saying "thats how apple made it and thats how it is" does not explain anything. Its like responding to a "why?" question with "because" and no explanation following.
Do yourself a favor and take a class on persuasive writing before playing devils advocate.
I think you don't get how software development works. Features like stacks will be on a list of things to put in to the OS, but many of those features will be dropped along the way as they don't work out as well as planned, or have some kind of practical issue. Also, once the feature is working, it's reviewed and often redesigned if it doesn't work as well as it could.
The leopard preview was a work in progress, and would have been in the feature review stage I imagine around that time. I bet a lot more than that has changed, and I bet most of it is for the better.
I asked this once and no one responds. Would you care to elaborate or point me to where Stacks is presented differently from Apple to what we received in the retail version? I just looked at the WWDC video 3 times on the Stacks presentation and I don't see anything different than what we have now.
So here's your chance, show me (don't tell me) where is Stacks was presented differently?
Refer to my first post. Although not demonstrated by apple, it previews features included in stacks. I am not a programmer, but the stacks previewed in that youtube link seems to be working fine. Either way, i never argued why apple took it out. Im arguing that the stacks previous functionality was perfect and that it should be reinstated.
Come on man, lets talk about irrelevant microsoft facts some more
Come on man, lets talk about irrelevant microsoft facts some more