I'll just keep asking this:
What buttons do you see in a mini scaled Safari that you consider a problem?
It would help everyone understand your point.
If you answer, I promise I'll send you a cupcake!
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There will NOT be an iPad Mini
- Thread starter freudling
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I'll just keep asking this:
What buttons do you see in a mini scaled Safari that you consider a problem?
It would help everyone understand your point.
If you answer, I promise I'll send you a cupcake!
Oh, I do see why such a scenario seems unlikely, I'm just saying you can't state that it's a fact.
Plus, I can also see them grossing over the non-retina aspect, and stressing affordability, portability, convenience, etc. It's just marketing, you can come up with a pitch to support anything you've decided to sell.
Come on Night Spring, that's not Apple about this cheap same line marketing BS as the other guys. I'm not stating this as fact about them not releasing a Mini, but if someone is to ask me, I'm 100% convinced they're not doing it and it's all disinformation in the media. That's why I'll bet anyone on here they won't do it.
Two cupcakes!!!
If you just don't think it will happen, why don't you just say so -- that would be just fine.
Why waste everyones time with all the pseudo-technical nonsense?
I'm actually of two minds about this. I mean, I'm a bit confused that they are still selling the 15" non-retina MacBook Pro alongside the retina model. If someone had predicted that will be what they'd do before the announcement, I'd have said that doesn't sound very Apple-like, and I'd doubt they'd do that. But look, that's what they've done! So right now, I'm not very confident about my sense of what Apple might or might not do. So I'm 50-50 on the iPad mini. I wouldn't be surprised if it does happen, and I won't be surprised if it doesn't.
Add me as another person who would be mildly curious to see mr. freudling publish the results of his purported testing.. Which proves so clearly in his mind that scaled down iPad is unfeasible.
I would love to see some screenshots with scaled down Safari and its "problematic buttons".
I have followed this thread because it has been highly amusing. Unless someone actually works for Apple AND are actively participating in their 'roadmap' discussions I fail to see how anyone can make such claims as your premise that it will never happen. However, such is the nature of humans and the Internet.
But I must point out that making blanket statements like "nobody wants a 'tweener'", and "nobody needs a 'tweener'" is the height of arrogance. I am quite sure you have never been designated as the spokesperson for all consumers. My family owns 4 iPads. I also own a Kindle. Personally I would love a smaller iPad. I could go so far as to say I need one because I could easily carry it out and about where my iPad is just too big.
You certainly have every right to your opinion as to the viability of a smaller iPad and your points are quite interesting and well-thought out. But please refrain from stating absolutes concerning the needs or wants of others. If there was no market at all (as you so boldly proclaim), then there would be no tablets that size. Whether those currently available have sold enough to satisify your definition of successful doesn't matter. Blanket statements are very rarely correct.
I'm afraid by now he's developed a sense that things wouldn't go so well for him if he did.
A lot of effort went into getting him within inches of biting on the hook ....
You'll get it in the morning when I'm back in the office. I don't have my iPad with me. I've also got the results of the cluster coefficients there.
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No. They are not moving backwards! Do you understand? The Retina MacBook Pro is a brand new product. It's 25% thinner, it's insides have be re-engineered... Just like this, the Mini would be a brand new product too. They won't put an old fuzzy screen on a brand new product. It won't happen. The non-Retina MBPs will be phased out.
I was actually critical of Apple not converting their whole line to Retina. I believe if Jobs were around all of the MacBook Pros would have gone Retina. You can imagine that turning the whole industry on its head in Apple's favor. Right now, the non-Retina screens look like junk next to the rMBP. I'm actually typing on a rMBP as we speak and I would never turn back. I don't like the performance glitches but the screen is a non turning back thing.
But they're transitioning into Retina on these devices. With mobile, the transition is over: all of their latest mobile devices are Retina: iPad, iPhone, and iPod Touch. They'd never not release a new mobile product without one.
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Bingo!
If asking nice, and offering sweets doesn't work, there's always another way ...
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Apple finally leaks 7.85-inch iPad rumor to New York Times on eve of Nexus 7 launch
Fresh off the presses:
Apple finally leaks 7.85-inch iPad rumor to New York Times on eve of Nexus 7 launch
This just cannot be happening!
Fresh off the presses:
Apple finally leaks 7.85-inch iPad rumor to New York Times on eve of Nexus 7 launch
This just cannot be happening!
I have to make bets on what consumers want in general, with the understanding that there's always a glob of people in the exception arena. The problem is that exception arena isn't worth spending time and money on: the action is in the iPad and smarphones. Mobile is polarized.
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I'm afraid by now he's developed a sense that things wouldn't go so well for him if he did.
A lot of effort went into getting him within inches of biting on the hook ....
Tweeners must have their UIs tweaked and changed to accommodate their size, accounting for distance held from the face and screen surface area.
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Fresh off the presses:
Apple finally leaks 7.85-inch iPad rumor to New York Times on eve of Nexus 7 launch
This just cannot be happening!
I completely forgot about the Nexus 7: makes even more sense why the rumors were being flung around so intensely: to take the thunder away from the Nexus 7. Apple: slimy bastards as usual.
I completely forgot about the Nexus 7: makes even more sense why the rumors were being flung around so intensely: to take the thunder away from the Nexus 7. Apple: slimy bastards as usual.
Seems sort of odd for Apple to worry so much about a a market that doesn't exist and a competitor's product that no one would ever want.. Wouldn't you say?
Seems sort of odd for Apple to worry so much about a a market that doesn't exist and a competitor's product that no one would ever want.. Wouldn't you say?
Apples's just trying to make everyone "extra" not want it.
Fresh off the presses:
Apple finally leaks 7.85-inch iPad rumor to New York Times on eve of Nexus 7 launch
This just cannot be happening!
freudling said:I completely forgot about the Nexus 7: makes even more sense why the rumors were being flung around so intensely: to take the thunder away from the Nexus 7. Apple: slimy bastards as usual.Seems sort of odd for Apple to worry so much about a a market that doesn't exist and a competitor's product that no one would ever want.. Wouldn't you say?
Whooooshhhh.. Did everyone hear that? The sound of irony going over freudling's head.
Seems sort of odd for Apple to worry so much about a a market that doesn't exist and a competitor's product that no one would ever want.. Wouldn't you say?
Not at all. Apple's the most slimy of them all. They want to own the markets their in and this happens all the time with them. They leak false information to the WSJ, the NYT, etc. all the time... all the layers and network of astroturfers they have... and they take the thunder out of their opponents' product launches, as well as confusing the industry so nobody knows for sure what they'll do and then boom! Keynote and everybody is blown away, as well as underwhelmed because some of the rumors never came true.
"In January, as rumors were swirling about the iPad, the WSJ had a story suggesting the tablet computer could run around $1,000. At the time, I pointed out why this reeked of Apple setting expectations low so they could blow them out of the water. A few days later, a former Marketing Manager at Apple backed this up. The result? Steve Jobs on stage announcing the iPad would start at just $499. Boom."
Apple use the media like a cheap whore to manipulate consumers as well as their competitors.
"Often Apple has a need to let information out, unofficially. The company has been doing that for years, and it helps preserve Apple's consistent, official reputation for never talking about unreleased products. I know, because when I was a Senior Marketing Manager at Apple, I was instructed to do some controlled leaks.
The way it works is that a senior exec will come in and say, "We need to release this specific information. John, do you have a trusted friend at a major outlet? If so, call him/her and have a conversation. Idly mention this information and suggest that if it were published, that would be nice. No e-mails!""
Of course anyone can believe Apple is telling the truth in their leaks and that a Mini really is coming out, but it won't happen. It's BS. If it doesn't it'll be the nail in Tim Cook's coffin because it'll be their biggest mistake since Jobs came back in 96.
freudling said:
Clearly.
Let me summarize. iPad Mini won't be coming out, because it's can't happen. That's why it won't happen. But if it does happen (although it can't, so it won't) -that would be Apple's grave mistake.
Thank you for explaining this in such clearly laid out and logical terms. I can go to bed now.
It's a tweener and nobody needs it. It's doomed to fail. I guarantee it. Go to bed now.
The cluster of buttons as follows: back, forward, and the X on the below browser tab. They're too small and clustered too close together. We can't reliably touch the back button without touching the X on the below tab at the same time. In addition, when using thumbs, sometimes all of the 3 buttons are touched at the same time.
The error rate is really high which explains why the cluster eoefficient is so high. We use homemade software that we partially gripped from past jobs that analyzes error rates on touchscreens. You trace out the touch areas to the pixel and it records the results of each input.
Apple solves the cluster and size problem on the iPhone by putting the navigation controls on the bottom of the browser and spaced even farther apart than they are on the iPad. This allows a user to reliably touch controls with the meatier thumbs.
Please post "before" and "after" screenshots, demonstrating the above conclusion.
How are you measuring touch reliability of the buttons without a prototype touchscreen device? Are you just placing your finger on a computer screen?
There now -- Was that so difficult?
In fact it's so simple one would have to wonder why you couldn't just say it yesterday, without driving to the office.
A deal's a deal - Send me your name and address, and I'll send you two cupcakes!
I need to head out for a while. Your response raises a lot of questions that some have already started to bring up. Remember there freudling, that this is a forum centered on ideas, not a chat room. Anyone is allows to express their questions, views, and input. Play nice.
Do you really have to wonder why? Because the whole "usability testing" thing is something he just made up, once he was pinned down to present some evidence in support of his outrageous claims.
And he is still making things up, as he goes along. It's fun to watch.
You create the screenshots. You test them with your own software. You post the results if you want. See how things work out for you.
I cannot post the touchscreen software because I don't own it: it's proprietary. It's in-house stuff developed from years of UI design and other places. I didn't develop it myself: I only had a small part in its development. We're not the only ones who use this stuff... by the way. Lots of people in the industry have their own iterations of it.
Second, I don't own the results of the data, and I want to keep eating... but if you PM me, I could give you some more indication of what the data says.
The way the software works is you map out hit areas in a pixel perfect array. The software knows where the hit areas "start" and "stop". When you touch a button, the software will register whether your finger a) stays within a target y or b) touches more than 1 target simultaneously. The software can also use a set of constants like average finger size, etc. to run simulations without the need to do any empirical interactions. It'll calculate cluster coefficients for you. But the model is harder than actually scaling down a screen and testing because there are several variables that need to be accounted for.
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Uh-huh.
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Do you really have to wonder why? Because the whole "usability testing" thing is something he just made up, once he was pinned down to present some evidence in support of his outrageous claims.
And he is still making things up, as he goes along. It's fun to watch.
Sure, it certainly is. I'm sorry but I don't remember every little thing between all of the Apps. I really didn't remember what the problem was with Safari until I came in this morning. I didn't even remember what buttons were in the top left except back and forward. I new there was two other symbols but they always confuse me.
And if you asked me right now what the problems were with Pages, I wouldn't be able to tell you because I don't remember. I don't even know what's in the top toolbar offhand.
So no, I'm not making it up as I go along. I'm old and tired.
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If anyone wants a scaled down screenshot of Safari, PM me, and shut your mouth where you're getting any of this information.
I did not make any definitive claims as to the usability of scaled down iPad. You did. Therefore, it is up to you to demonstrate the evidence of your testing. And until you do - your claims remain unproven.
This is Internet. Anyone can say and claim anything. Without proof or some sort of track record - the claims aren't worth the digital ink they're written with.
If "lots of people in the industry use it" - why the big secret? What is the name of the software? What touchscreen devices does it run on?