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There will NOT be an iPad Mini
- Thread starter freudling
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Thank you Night Spring. This is infinitely more useful than all of the made up faux-technical drivel by freudling ("pixel perfect arrays" and all).
The 7.85" screenshots of common apps scaled down on my iPad 9.7" screen really speak thousand words. There is not a hint here of anything about 7.85" iPad being unworkable.
Rene Ritchie research also provides a perfectly succinct conclusion:
My wife will love her new 7.85" iPad!
It's hard to say definitively without having an actual working model, but I think the smaller touch targets could make the UI just slightly more awkward to use. For instance, many people seem to assume that the smaller size would make the iPad mini more suitable for young children, but considering they are more uncoordinated than adults, wouldn't it be harder for young kids to accurately hit smaller touch targets? And the landscape keyboard seems to end up at an especially awkward size -- too small to touch type, but possibly too big to use thumbs. Again, I'd have to try one to see if it will be a problem for me.
Ideally, there would be a third UI for that size -- but that would mean more work for the developers. In any case, for me, this is definitely a "try before buy" product, while the current iPad was a "preorder the moment it goes on sale" product.
No. I'm talking about our fat fingers not being an accurate enough pointing device. Freudling put it well When he said
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Of course it makes some difference - but thediffence between shrinking something at you just look at and shrinking something that you have to touch with your fingers is huge.
There is no "software". It's homemade stuff. Maybe somebody should create a non-command line version of it. It's just hacked together stuff that's useful for UI design and some people I know in the industry use it. Maybe you could go create it and hit the vertical markets.
And there is no escaping the facts. The buttons DO NOT scale down in proportion to the size of the screen. They scale down too much and the distance upon which they're fixed from one another also scales down too much.
With the position that you guys hold, the iPad 9.7" should be allowed to have the same scaled down UI because "the buttons are the same size as the iPhone". It's a simplistic, absurd argument based on flawed assumptions.
Tweeners must have their UIs tweaked and changed to account for the size of the device. To account for the distance at which the device is used and how close UI elements are to each other.
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You have not done any testing. All you have said is that: "I believe X, so X must be true".
You are wrong and your comments are baseless.
I would agree. Slightly more difficult to use, as compared to full blown iPad. But enough to be useful from what I have seen. You can also say this would be a product uniquely suitable for women, with smaller fingers.. and there is a whole "fit in the purse" requirement.
I don't see that.. It would be appear to be a good size for thumb-typing.
But as you say - holding and using the actual device in your hands will be the definitive test.
Do yourself a favor: somebody posted some screenshots above (nice work finding those by the way)... load the Safari version up on your iPad and test the buttons.
Hold your iPad like you're using it. Use your thumbs and try to tap the back button. Move your face to the side as you do this tap with your thumb over and over. Keep doing it as you look at where the meat of your thumb hits. You'll see, if you're a fully grown, average size adult, that the meat of your thumb covers a surface area that overlaps both the back button and the X button on the below tab (make sure you have a tab open). You can tweak where you tap with your thumb to more reliably just hit the back button but you can see how problematic it is: the size of the buttons and the distance they are from one another is too close. You're going to get a lot of errors. You can adjust though by using your thumb more gently with less of the meat. But anyway...
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I would agree. Slightly more difficult to use, as compared to full blown iPad. But enough to be useful from what I have seen. You can also say this would be a product uniquely suitable for women, with smaller fingers.. and there is a whole "fit in the purse" requirement.
I don't see that.. It would be appear to be a good size for thumb-typing.
But as you say - holding and using the actual device in your hands will be the definitive test.
You also have my vote for awkward keyboard.
I found the screenshots, and I already tested them like you suggested, and as I said, I really can't tell if the smaller size UI will work for me or not. It'd definitely be more error-prone, but what I can't tell is if I'd be able to adjust with extended use.
He he. All you have to do is follow freudling's posts - his LIE twists, turns and evolves with every post:
His initial idea of the test is "visual" examination of re-sized Photoshop.
So now his tests involve touching some buttons, which would require a touchscreen UI.
Wow, now it's been downgraded to a "command-line".. I wonder how one touches command-line interfaces!
Look, there is no "software", "testing tools" or "test data". What we have here is just freudling - a sad and lonely man on the Internet.. tripping on his own lies.
As I have already told you - I have no interest in creating any sort of UI testing software or doing this testing. You claim to have already done the testing - I asked you to provide the tangible results. You are unable or unwilling to provide the test results, and just continue to obfuscate the issue.
So be it, I won't ask again.
Do you really have to wonder why? Because the whole "usability testing" thing is something he just made up, once he was pinned down to present some evidence in support of his outrageous claims.
And he is still making things up, as he goes along. It's fun to watch.
I haven't had a seconds doubt about his supposed "credentials" since entering this thread:
Quote:
My name is freudling.
Tablets are my business.
And
Blah
Blah
Blah
I
type
stuff
that
makes
no
sense
This whole thread has been that.
Check out his dummy account posting history that has nothing to indicate someone who has been "passionately involved with tablet interface design since before the Newton".
Also, check out this familiar ranting style going on here under another name:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1364089/
It's the internet, and people can create multiple accounts, and pretend to be whatever they think they might be able to get at least some small audience to believe.
It has been fun, and I think I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone shoot themselves in the foot so many times as freudling has here - it's been unbelievable!
Just wait untill he types another 8-paragraph diatribe ending with "Tweeners must have their UI resized.." bolded and highlighted. Oh yeah, that will show everyone!
It's been fun. See you around.
Yeah - The keyboard is the biggest problem I can see. The rest seems a pretty minor inconvenience traded off for portability.
I've always looked at the mini as being something much more suited for adults on the go, than being a low cost device suited to kids. The overall width determined by the side bezel width is a key point in how it will be used - something that can be palm held and pocketed by adults or not. I'd like to see a narrow, fully functional, and fairly pricy mini. Who knows what will happen -- just have to wait and see (hopefully with a Nexus 7 in hand to hold me over).
As for the keyboard, I see them as already beginning to fade in importance with Siri/ dictation starting to become useful -- they'll only become more so over time. Also developers can make apps more suited for the "tweener" size as the enter the market in a significant way -- easy to enter data on that screen size (check out something like Bento 4) -- attach voice memos as needed for later transcription on a suitable device...
That's what creative developers are for.
And there's always the somewhat awkward typing option if you really need it ...
I really hope that the advancement of speech dictation doesn't mean that keyboard input gets neglected, because that would be a major step down in usability for users like myself who have speech disabilities. I do like Siri's search functions, but I need to type in my questions to Siri.
It's all a series of compromises - I hope you get something that works well for you.
I doubt the keyboard will ever disappear - it's just too useful. Just a wider variety of input methods will become available.
Even Steven Hawking gets to speak with the right technology.
Do you like doing much word processing on the iPhone? or even the iPad?
I have already told you to PM me and I would give you more info on the data.
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It has been fun, see you around.
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I haven't had a seconds doubt about his supposed "credentials" since entering this thread:
Quote:
My name is freudling.
Tablets are my business.
And
Blah
Blah
Blah
I
type
stuff
that
makes
no
sense
This whole thread has been that.
Check out his dummy account posting history that has nothing to indicate someone who has been "passionately involved with tablet interface design since before the Newton".
Also, check out this familiar ranting style going on here under another name:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1364089/
It's the internet, and people can create multiple accounts, and pretend to be whatever they think they might be able to get at least some small audience to believe.
It has been fun, and I think I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone shoot themselves in the foot so many times as freudling has here - it's been unbelievable!
When all else fails, attack the person.
1. You don't understand UI design and you have demonstrated this repeatedly in this thread.
2. You have made several errors in your assumptions which has been demonstrated.
3. You are incredulous.
Oh, I know keyboard will not completely disappear, but I just hope it won't become a "second thought" option, like it's ok if it's not so easy to use, because the main input method is speech.
I forget what Hawkings uses as an input device -- was it some kind of keyboard?
And I prefer typing on my iPad rather than on my iPhone. I write out a lot of rough drafts on my iPad, then use my desktop or notebook to finalize them. The iPhone will do in a pinch, but I find it too small to use as my main word processing device.
If you really understood Fitt's law... that would be a miracle and you wouldn't be asking the same questions and making mistakes.
No, wrong, wrong wrong. You fail to understand what has been said and what is fact.
Mice allow you to select an object on screen as small as 1 pixel. It makes ZERO difference that you use a trackpad: your input is translated into a precision device that can select an area as small as 1 pixel. Therefore, targets can be smaller on a desktop or laptop because the selector is much more precise. In addition, you want to save pixel space on desktops and laptops because it's a multi-tasking environment with a bunch of windows stacked on top of each other over top of a desktop with more stuff on it. Also, there are many more features in desktops Apps and making smaller targets allows many features to be integrated into an interface (aka Adobe). In other words, Apps are not fullscreen Apps like in iOS.
Your fingers are nowhere near as precise: the meat of the fingers REQUIRES larger hit areas and that those hit areas be spaced farther apart. There is NO translation to something more precise. The finger is NOT a single pixel input. Period. They specified 44 points but the physical size in inches is vital.
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I just saw Hawkings comment on the Higgs Boson, and I think (not sure) he's down to just using eye movements to select letters/words -- he seems to be pretty fast with it.
If you're anything like the two finger hunt and peck typist that I am, the mini keyboard might seem pretty usable.
Blinking -- it's amazing what people can adapt to, isn't it?
I actually touch type with physical keyboards. On the iPad, I've actually settlrd on using my thumbs in landscape -- I think I have longish fingers! I don't like typing on the iPad in portrait, because the balance doesn't quite work out. I feel like the top of the iPad will tip away from me, and also the keys are too small to hit accurately. On the iPhone, I hunt and peck with one finger, because the keys are too small for anything else.
Just like knucklehead trying to open a Nexus 7 Tweener... except he hasn't figured out how to open it yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32DD4DF7Qpo&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32DD4DF7Qpo&feature=player_embedded
Apparently, Apple considers 0.23" a sufficent target width for some things on the iPad.
That's the width of many targets of Safari.
Just an observsation.
That's the width of many targets of Safari.
Just an observsation.