There's a New 13-Inch MacBook Pro Coming, Here's What We Know

[canyonblue737]

March: mac mini with M2, M1 Pro, M1 Max and Macbook Pro 13 touchbar with M2

May: total redesign of Macbook Air (with colors, maybe called Macbook?) with M2, iMac Pro (total redesign with M1 Pro, M1 Max and although not rumored I believe it will have a M2 option on the low end) and iMac (24 inch) updated with M2

June (WWDC): Mac Pro announced (for fall shipping) with 2 and 4 CPU M1 Max variants.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

The 13” MacBook Pro has a fan and could certainly handle the pro albeit possibly clocked down. The Mac Mini could certainly handle a M1 Pro. The iMac could certainly handle the Pro.
Nothing to do with “ logic” just basic common senseUnder clocking the M1pro, removing cores, shrinking it… oh wait that already exists, it’s called the M1

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Errr. this is same chassis that had an Intel CPU+GPU package in it. Like it was not already designed for higher TDP than a M1. The TDP capacity here is overkill for an M1. There is no massive redesign needed at all.


MBP 13" two ports mid 2020

MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

"...

• 1.4GHz quad-core 8th‑generation Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
  Configurable to 1.7GHz quad-core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM

• Built-in 58.2-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery
• 61W USB-C Power Adapter

• Height: 0.61 inch (1.56 cm)
• Width: 11.97 inches (30.41 cm)
• Depth: 8.36 inches (21.24 cm)
• Weight: 3.1 pounds (1.4 kg)3

..."

MBP 13" M1 ( two ports ) late 2020

MacBook Pro (13-inch, M1, 2020) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

"...

• Apple M1 chip
  8-core CPU with 4 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores
  8-core GPU
  16-core Neural Engine

• Built-in 58.2-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery
• 61W USB-C Power Adapter

• Height: 0.61 inch (1.56 cm)
• Width: 11.97 inches (30.41 cm)
• Depth: 8.36 inches (21.24 cm)
• Weight: 3.0 pounds (1.4 kg)3

... "


Same case , battery, and power supply. Same thing. Can handle a i7-8557U ( 14nm ) processor at 'Intel' base of 15W ( and likely quite higher if engaged turbo on CPU and GPU . )

Intel® Core™ i7-8557U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.50 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i7-8557U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.50 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

[ i7-8659 base TDP is 28W which clocked a bit higher (hence more indicative of what the performance mode consumption would be. ]
But can't take the approximately 28-32W of the M1 Pro CPUs ? It is the same ballpark. Even more so of walk back to 8 cores and just 14 GPUs.


The system would not be "whisper quiet" all the time, but case not being able to handle the load... not really. Apple might have to cap the all core frequency slightly and perhaps not use the max GPU count but it could be done straightforwardly. The case infrastructure being used here was never heavily optimized for the M1. It is the old Intel stuff.

They are somewhat cramped for logic board space but somewhat just reused the old Intel board as a template for the M1 version.

M1 MacBook Pro and Air Teardowns

Past, meet future—it’s a mix of old and new in our dual teardown of the newest M1-powered MacBooks.

www.ifixit.com

If move the larger M1 Pro closer to the fan then won't need three standoffs for the heat pipe and can just use some of that space for the SoC itself. But there are a few "blank" sections to he logic board that a bigger SoC could consume if move some of the components around. They probably would need to make the speakers a bit smaller to grow the logic board slightly but that would not be a major task. Basically four parts changed. Logicboard which has to change regardless of M2 or M1 Pro . Heat spreader/Head Pipe (which might have to change for M2 also). Left and Right Speaker.


The one quirk might be if there is no eDP output for the Touch Bar on the M1 Pro and there is one for the M2. That is kinds of depends upon when Apple decided to 'kill' the Touch Bar. Given Apple's history on slow keyboard changes I'd surprised if they killed it in the M1 Pro. Maybe by the M2 but they could have been still toying with the idea at that point too in early design phase. [ If the Touch Bar is nuked then wouldn't matter. I have a feeling it is not and "but well already added the support in the design" is one contributing reason not going away very quickly. ]





No. The M1 Max wouldn't fit in the MBP 13" two port case. So it isn't going. The M1 Pro is far too big for an iPad. The M1 Pro is bigger but it isn't far bigger than the M1.

When the M1 MBP 13" launched there was no M1 Pro option to use at all. Apple also didn't really know what the demand for M1's was going to be. They probably expected "high" but decent chance that their projections were wrong. MBA 13" gave them an out to soak up as many M1's as they needed to if they got the forecast significantly wrong on the "high" side. If too low... just customers waiting in line longer. There was no downside not to ship with an M1.

If Apple has a tall stack of M2's lying around and not other systems to soak them up then a "MacBook" 13 could do that job relatively easily. About the same thing though for the M1 Pro. If folks are not buying the very low end M1 Pro in the projected numbers then then it could be adjusted to soak those up and keep the MacBook Pro name. Both are really stop gaps for a case/chassis they already have. At some point in 2023-24 they probably should new a case update that is more purposefully designed for one or the other (e.g., M3 or M3 Pro).

A: The M1 pro MacBook Pro is still not delivering as fast as it should, shoving it in another computer isn’t going to help. Meanwhile the M2 is very similar to the M1, and uses the same cores most likely as the A15, Apple probably has much better yields with that right now.
B: The MacBook Air and the 13 inch MacBook Pro absolutely did not have dedicated graphics, it was always integrated. And both computers, especially between 2016 and 2020, were well known for becoming overheated extremely quickly, and thermal throttling.
Switching to Apple Silicon is what they did to fix that problem, shoving a power-hungry M1pro and the smaller envelope would just bring the problems back.

 

[frogslapper]

Can the base M2 handle more than 16gb of RAM please

Yeah, really hoping it can do 32 or 64 GB RAM. Shouldn't a Pro machine be able to do this, especially since the 14/16" can?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

2 ports? It has 3 now, and it was 4 prior - and those 3 each have a dedicated controller now so the left and right sides don’t need to share bandwidth. We lost a port to accommodate HDMI and/or an incredibly slow and barely functional SD card slot. And you wouldn’t need to use one for power, because it has a dedicated power connection with the return of MagSafe.

We are talking about the MacBook Pro 13 that is rumored to come out with the same design as the current.
The current MBP 13 has TWO ports.

From Apple site for MacBook Pro 13:

Thunderbolt / USB 4​

Ultra‑high bandwidth meets ultra‑versatility. Thunderbolt enables data transfer, charging, and video output all through a single port — and MacBook Pro has two of them.

 

[Klapper.cz]

Yeah, really hoping it can do 32 or 64 GB RAM. Shouldn't a Pro machine be able to do this, especially since the 14/16" can?

That's another thing where putting M2 into any MBP might not be great - you either update it's capabilities (that are not needed in the segment it's primarily intended for and basically give people more than you want to give them in M2 Air for example) or just continue the confusion of non-Pro chip in a Pro body with unmatched capabilities/options.
Much easier when you fix current MBP 13" "anomaly" with lower tier M1 Pro with all other options and dependencies that should come with a Pro. And also clear message to people that they need to get Pro machine for more ram, ports, accelerators etc.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I still think they should call this "MacBook", drop the price to $999, and raise the price on the refreshed Air when it comes out. The original Air was meant as a high cost high portability notebook, and the MacBook had a 13" aluminum unibody before so it makes sense.

I agree now.

apple has never had a “budget” MBP, or PowerBook for that matter. Maybe the 2008 MB & MBP could’ve been considered that since they shared the same unibody just different sizes I don’t think that’s a good idea. Think about everyone, was the iPhone mini considered a mini pro? Same chip same design this perspective but never a pro model.

 

[fooobar]

In truth nobody knows anything. We like to think we can make good predictions, but Apple has done an excellent job of keeping things hidden.

exactly - it's amusing how many people here try and state opinions as facts, when in fact they're just speaking out of their huge behinds same as everybody else, lol... ?

really looking forward to the ACTUAL announcements soon enough - personally I'm rooting for a 13" MBP upgraded to M2 (or M1 Pro if battery life isn't too severely impacted) w/ 32GB memory option, which hopefully keeps the touchbar & NO notch (magsafe & extra ports would be super appreciated, though I realize would be extremely unlikely)!

 

[deconstruct60]

The 13” MacBook Pro has a fan and could certainly handle the pro albeit possibly clocked down. The Mac Mini could certainly handle a M1 Pro. The iMac could certainly handle the Pro.

The iMac 24" can't handle the M1 Pro. The SoC is about twice and big and there are no substantive empty voids on the logic board. It wouldn't work on size; let alone thermals. The 27" probably will not get thinned out quite as much, but if they try to stuff the M1 Pro/Max electronics almost totally into the 'chin' of the device to thin it out as far as they can , then that will present some problems. (especially if trying to push a 6-7 speaker system into the chin also. )

Hopefully, they haven't gone too far into the "it has to look like an iPad on a stand" dogma 'rabbit hole' on the 27" model. If they 'square off' the current 27" case with the average thickness between biggest bulge and thinnest possible edges to something reasonable then they can get the logic board behind the screen and not trying to bulk up the 'chin' to hold more electronics. 1-1.25" would probably work. [ Before Apple wondered off into "thinnest edges" for iMac they were about 1.5" ]

Two , relatively much larger diameter fans and appropriately large air inlets should be able to at least load that the tandem does in the 16" ... a M1 Max should be straightforward to do also if the "thinness design politburo" doesn't gut the chassis. Biggest problem is someone wanting it to be 'magically' cooled with zero visible vents.


Similar with the Mini. If use the classic case and don't thin out the enclosure too far the Max would fit also. ( The current Mini case is at least half empty. ) . Same dogma problem. If did some straightforward 'front to back' cooling with visible vents it wouldn't be a major issue. The problem is 'magically' cooled with no visible evidence of doing so. ( will not be surprising at all if they shrink the air vents on M2/M3 model so small that squeezes out the "pro/max" options. Similar path as the iMac 24" has been directed. )

 

[Realityck]

The iMac 24" can't handle the M1 Pro. The SoC is about twice and big and there are no substantive empty voids on the logic board. It wouldn't work on size; let alone thermals.

I don't think one can judge that absolutely. The size of the small CCA can always change. It does have a small 2 fan setup, but its not like they are lacking internal space. They must have plans for it using better AS SoC's over time.

see https://macandegg.com/2021/05/ifixit-shows-m1-imac-24-from-inside/

 

[deconstruct60]

A: The M1 pro MacBook Pro is still not delivering as fast as it should, shoving it in another computer isn’t going to help. Meanwhile the M2 is very similar to the M1, and uses the same cores most likely as the A15, Apple probably has much better yields with that right now.

Because they don't have M1 Pros or they don't have miniLEDs or funky new display controller supply chain?

Attaching the M1 Pro to a display that isn't hard to get wouldn't impact availability.

The M1 Pro is on a almost two year old process. How are the yields going to be low? There is an incremental lower yield because the die is bigger. Process wise there is a better chance the M2 is on a relatively newer N4 than N5. ( Not that N4 would be very bad. Just not significantly better than N5). If they are both N5 and the M2 is bigger (bloated just like the A15 bloated) , then that just moves it closer to the "bigger die" yield issues that the M1 Pro has. The only way the M2 is the approximately the same size as the M1 is if they moved to N4.

If there is a "Mini Pro" coming that has a M1 Pro/Max then neither of the display hiccups problems would come into play.

B: The MacBook Air and the 13 inch MacBook Pro absolutely did not have dedicated graphics, it was always integrated. And both computers, especially between 2016 and 2020, were well known for becoming overheated extremely quickly, and thermal throttling.
Switching to Apple Silicon is what they did to fix that problem, shoving a power-hungry M1pro and the smaller envelope would just bring the problems back.

Actually Apple Silicon did fix the problem

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1701...m1-max-giant-new-socs-with-allout-performance


From 10-15 Watts , the M1 Pro actually has better Performance/Watt than the M1 does and doesn't need to up as far at the 20W if the Intel iGPU to deliver. So "thermal throttle" at 100% faster GPU performance than the Intel offering isn't 'bad'.

If only going to casually use the GPU then the M1 is better, but if actually going to lean on the GPU to get substantive work down then at the upper end of the M1 curve the Perf/Watt actually trails off.

The M2 may have more GPU cores which could allow it to run more cores at a slower speed to get performance at the top end so the cross over point will change relative to the M1 Pro GPU. (e.g., around 13-14W as opposed to around 10W) Decent chance though that the top end power consumption goes up also with the additional cores, but yeah easier to "stop at 10W" if want to.

 

[Klapper.cz]

The iMac 24" can't handle the M1 Pro. The SoC is about twice and big and there are no substantive empty voids on the logic board. It wouldn't work on size; let alone thermals. The 27" probably will not get thinned out quite as much, but if they try to stuff the M1 Pro/Max electronics almost totally into the 'chin' of the device to thin it out as far as they can , then that will present some problems. (especially if trying to push a 6-7 speaker system into the chin also. )

Hopefully, they haven't gone too far into the "it has to look like an iPad on a stand" dogma 'rabbit hole' on the 27" model. If they 'square off' the current 27" case with the average thickness between biggest bulge and thinnest possible edges to something reasonable then they can get the logic board behind the screen and not trying to bulk up the 'chin' to hold more electronics. 1-1.25" would probably work. [ Before Apple wondered off into "thinnest edges" for iMac they were about 1.5" ]

Two , relatively much larger diameter fans and appropriately large air inlets should be able to at least load that the tandem does in the 16" ... a M1 Max should be straightforward to do also if the "thinness design politburo" doesn't gut the chassis. Biggest problem is someone wanting it to be 'magically' cooled with zero visible vents.


Similar with the Mini. If use the classic case and don't thin out the enclosure too far the Max would fit also. ( The current Mini case is at least half empty. ) . Same dogma problem. If did some straightforward 'front to back' cooling with visible vents it wouldn't be a major issue. The problem is 'magically' cooled with no visible evidence of doing so. ( will not be surprising at all if they shrink the air vents on M2/M3 model so small that squeezes out the "pro/max" options. Similar path as the iMac 24" has been directed. )

While putting M1 Pro into 24" might seem hard/"impossible", it's often more about cost vs. price than "absolute (im)possibility".
We tend to think that what we see done is somehow set in stone, but I don't have any doubt Apple can fit M1 Pro 8c into 24" iMac if they wanted to, it just depends on if it's worth it, how much more would it cost to miniaturise more things around, make more holes/vents etc. So I wouldn't and 27" should be just fine.
Btw. I always wonder about the M1 Air and M1 MBP huge logic board size difference - they didn't need to make the MBP one smaller to achieve the same so they didn't. Meanwhile almost the same power/function in the M1 Air fits into incomparably smaller space because it had to (and/or was practical for simpler build continuation).
Also it occurred to me the reason they kept the larger board in M1 MBP 13" could have been among other things because they knew they'll put relatively bigger/hungrier chip inside later on when they have it. Maybe even get back some space for more battery when they optimize the new board for the next CPU that's not dropped inside "ad hoc".

 

[BuffaloTF]

We are talking about the MacBook Pro 13 that is rumored to come out with the same design as the current.
The current MBP 13 has TWO ports.

From Apple site for MacBook Pro 13:

Thunderbolt / USB 4​

Ultra‑high bandwidth meets ultra‑versatility. Thunderbolt enables data transfer, charging, and video output all through a single port — and MacBook Pro has two of them.

So we're talking about an anomaly, a deviation from the previous norm, which the Pro and Max chips rectified? And we're expecting the M2 to be a step backwards in that regard? Seems plausible........

 

[deconstruct60]

I don't think one can judge that absolutely. The size of the small CCA can always change. It does have a small 2 fan setup, but its not like they are lacking internal space. They must have plans for it using better AS SoC's over time.

see https://macandegg.com/2021/05/ifixit-shows-m1-imac-24-from-inside/

Errr, yes you can judge it absolutely if have the actual dimensions.

AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware, Software, and Deals

Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

www.anandtech.com

So the. M1 Pro is twice the area of the M1. 245/120 is ~ 2 . It is bigger. So the package it is placed inside of will need to be bigger. Not only that the. M1 Pro takes 4 stacks of RAM ( inside of two custom packages) instead of the two stacks of RAM the M1 takes. It has a much wider. memory I/O width... which also leads to a bigger package for that doubling of the number of connections to the outside the die.



So the M1 Pro looks like ( same article as above )

If you cut the package above in middle in half and pick one of those "double size" RAM packages you have approximately a M1 package. So it is about twice as big. That presents a problem.


Let's go to the 24" iMac logic board.

(step 7 )

iMac M1 24" Teardown

Is the new M1 iMac just a silly-sized M1 iPad, a detached-keyboard M1 MacBook, an M1 Mac Mini stretched out like pizza dough? We’ll only know by...

www.ifixit.com

If create a copy of the M1 package part of the image and put it side-by-side with original one. That extended package would land on top of the power input assembly. If try to push the power input to the right then ... stuff on rightmost side starts to fall off the edge.

Can try to hand wave about kicking some of those chips off to the secondary I/O logic board, but most of these have to do with power management so often need to be located to close to where the power comes in. The other main chips here are Ethernet ( on the backside (not directly visible above) , but again highly coupled to the power input since more the receptacle down the cable to the power brick) and Flash memory (which should not go very far from the SSD controller in the SoC. ) . Bluetooth WiFi ... again some coupling to power ICs which are somewhat drawn to the power input. The secondary issue is that because the secondary I/O board is so thinly placed behind the LCD panel , you can't drop tons of power dissipation back there either.

The height (up/down) of the logic board in the picture above is primarily driven by the height of the chin of the iMac 24". Can't really make it taller without making the chin bigger. The two fans are also entirely within the chin so can't really make the board wider ( as the M1 Pro is wider ) . So cannot easily extend the logic board to the left to take the wider M1 Pro without ejecting a fan ( or speakers which are father out toward edge than the fan. )

Even further exacerbated by the fact that the M1 24" case tends to draw air up in a vent below about the middle of this board and blow it back out the bottom of the chassis heated up by the internals (just past the logic board on either side and down ) . "Two fans" doesn't really help here because trying to draw cool air in approximately the same area the system is blowing hot air into. The more hot air blow out the bottom of this iMac the higher the likelihood going to just suck back in the air hot that just went out. For the most part, there are two fans here because the fans are restricted in size and also trying to divide and push the air out in different directions so don't re-ingest it.


Physically and thermally the 24" iMac is painted into a corner that Apple relatively often Apple paints itself into.
With the M1 that corner still happens to work. However, it is a relatively narrow corner.

Some folks point off to the higher power that the power brick as some kind of "planned support for the M1 Pro". Well, there are six speakers here to drive also (kind of hard to get "room filling" sound out of 2W speakers). If crank the volume those are consuming decent wattage too. Similar TB4 and USB4 can provision power (e.g., plug in a iPad trying to do a rapid charge). The screen takes power. The power brick isn't all that over-budgeted.

 

[Spectrum]

This seems crazy to me. Just keep MBAir 13 and then MBPro 14/16. Why the need for a MBPro in between?

 

[Fomalhaut]

This seems crazy to me. Just keep MBAir 13 and then MBPro 14/16. Why the need for a MBPro in between?

Yes....I think that either the MBP13 and MBA will merge later this year to become the "MacBook", or the MBP13 will be replaced by an entry-level MBP14 with the entry level M<x> SoC and maybe a cheaper screen or fewer ports.

A third option, which I'm doubtful about, is that the the MBP13 and MBA will swap places so that the Air becomes the premium ultra-portable with a nice screen etc. and the MBP13 gets dumbed down, left with older SoCs (e.g. stays on M1), loses the Touch Bar, but keeps the older design and becomes the everyman "MacBook" at <$1000.

 

[MajorFubar]

Anyone got any official sales statistics on where the current 13" sits in terms of actual sales since the 14" and 16" were launched? I'd probably just scrap it. I don't get its purpose or appeal at all.

 

[chucker23n1]

Anyone got any official sales statistics on where the current 13" sits in terms of actual sales since the 14" and 16" were launched? I'd probably just scrap it. I don't get its purpose or appeal at all.

Apple no longer releases unit sales figures. Even when they did, their breakdown was only as fine-grained as desktops vs. notebooks. (Way back in the day, in the early 2000s, I think they were more fine-grained than that.)

 

[Fomalhaut]

Anyone got any official sales statistics on where the current 13" sits in terms of actual sales since the 14" and 16" were launched? I'd probably just scrap it. I don't get its purpose or appeal at all.

Probably mostly price, and to a far lesser extent smaller form factor (& less weight), and better battery life. Improved screen and cooling over the MBA are also factors, but these may not be worth the $300 increase over the MBA for many.

But price (compared to the MBP14) is the main one.

Yes, I know the difference to the entry level MBP14 is only $300 once you configure the MBP13 to same base as the MBP14 (16GB / 512GB), but that is still significant, and many people simply don’t need or want to pay for these upgrades. There is no option for an 8GB/256GB MBP14 for those that want CPU/GPU power but don’t care about RAM or storage (admittedly this would be such a small minority that it wouldn't be worth catering for them).

If the MBA were improved to match the same (or better) screen as the MBP13, and had similar battery life and a better SoC, then I would agree, that there would no reason to continue with the MBP13 in its present form.

 

[SoldOnApple]

Uh, no. The votes are in and people want real ESC and function keys. Volume and "playback scribble" might be fun for a minute or two. Software never really utilized it.

MBP with TouchBar already has a real escape key.

 

[Klapper.cz]

Anyone got any official sales statistics on where the current 13" sits in terms of actual sales since the 14" and 16" were launched? I'd probably just scrap it. I don't get its purpose or appeal at all.

This is exactly why I think there should't be any new MPB or any Pro machine with the "simple non Pro" M2 for low end machines (the current bond between Air M1 and MBP M1 is an abomination! .
I'm going to repeat myself of course, but once you put 8C(10-12gpuC?) M1 Pro into MBP 13" with 2 more ports, 32GB ram option yet smaller (old) body (without touch bar and notch) for $1499, the appeal and purpose will emerge immediately.

 

[blazerunner]

Touch Bar is great.

The fact that Apple took it out says otherwise.

 

[Klapper.cz]

The fact that Apple took it out says otherwise.

Poor app support and counter-intuitive location above keyboard killed an otherwise usable idea I think.
Put a fully configurable and supported shorter vertical "touchbar" on the left side of the keyboard and I'm in

 

[sherwinzadeh]

I just don't see them releasing M2 when they haven't finished the M1 rollout across the entire Mac product line.

 

[paradox00]

Keeping Pro level separated from low end/regular solves the confusion, not create it - the M1 non-Pro chip in MBP is the main problem that actually "muddies the waters".
Also there's a gaping hole between $1300 and $2000, having lower tier but still a Pro model around $1500 is an elegant way how to split the difference between MBA and MBP - you wan't more power with better accelerators but not at premium and in smaller body everyone like? Here you go.

There's no reason to have a 13" MBP alongside a 14" MBP. Period. The 13" MBP is just a Macbook, and has been for a while (it had no discrete GPU at the end of its Intel days). The only issue is that it's improperly named.

If you actually configure a 13" MBP with the 512 GB SSD and 16 GB of RAM that the 14" MBP starts with, it costs $1699 (compared to $1999 for the 14"). The Air with 512 GB and 16 GB comes in at $1449. There's no dramatic price gap to fill. Apple just doesn't list those configurations on the first page, you have to do it yourself to see. If Apple wanted a Pro laptop at a lower price point, they could reduce the starting SSD or RAM size of the 14" model, no need to put an M1 Pro in the 13".

Outside of muddying the waters more (and yes it would), binned hardware is supposed to be limited in quantity, otherwise their production processes are trash. It wouldn't even make sense to put it in something you intend as a high volume seller. They'd have to intentionally disable working cores to get to the volume needed. Better to just use an M2, which would have similar performance to an M1 Pro with a number of cores disabled anyway.

Edit: I'm really slow to replying to old replies to me. Has little to do with the current convo on page 10.