Battery power consumption, price, and margins still matter. Apple has to balance these. Using a bigger, power hungry SoC that uses LPDDR5 RAM probably means a complete redesign. I doubt that makes sense for a product that is probably end of life after this next release.
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There's a New 13-Inch MacBook Pro Coming, Here's What We Know
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There are of course more possible outcomes, we'll see soon enough.
I'm just pointing out there's a way to "solve" the MBP 13" problem with what is already possible. Also MBP 13" design is not that far from MBP 14", when you put the modern keyboard on it and some details here and there, it wouldn't be horribly inconsistent except the bezels and some tapering (but without the notch).
Also the M1 Pro power is not set in stone - especially when you bin GPU cores more and even throttle a bit more in some situations - take 14" M1 Max 32 cores compared to 16", it throttles like crazy because of the form factor. Going from 14" to almost 14" marketed as 13.3" is not that huge jump, especially if you save one fan and put more battery inside. Plus people going for the more powerful in between Pro device might be quite ok with 2hrs less battery doing productive tasks for example.
And if Air M2 comes in 6-7 months, it'll be the proper M2 fanfare deserving event and everyone will understand where this MBP stands in the lineup, not to mention lot of them already sold.
So it's not good for already introduced M1 Pro, but it'll be great for brand new M2?
What surprises me the most is that M1 Pro (and Max) are THE current product being manufactured (it's just been less than 4 months and we already default to something else and new that shouldn't be in a Pro machine?) - all that Apple has to do is shove M1 Pro (and Max) into everything that has "Pro" in the name. Whatever version/binning, just keep it consistent. Combining old MBP 13" format with brand new shining M2 is definitely not the Apple way I think.
Apple has always done minor spec bumps for Macs. I’m not sure why you think this is different.
As I said, I don’t think this is a MacBook Pro.So it's not good for already introduced M1 Pro, but it'll be great for brand new M2?
What surprises me the most is that M1 Pro (and Max) are THE current product being manufactured (it's just been less than 4 months and we already default to something else and new that shouldn't be in a Pro machine?) - all that Apple has to do is shove M1 Pro (and Max) into everything that has "Pro" in the name. Whatever version/binning, just keep it consistent. Combining old MBP 13" format with brand new shining M2 is definitely not the Apple way I think.
I think this is a MacBook SE, most likely to take the lowest slot of the price points when the new MacBook Air inevitably gets a major price increase later this year.
As for the difference between the old design and the new design, there is a lot more different than just the keyboard and Display.
Just go look at any teardowns.
Also, and most importantly, the production lines that have been producing the 13.3 inch MacBook Pro have been around since 2016. This is a well oiled machine, a design that Apple’s manufacturing partners can produce for very cheap because of how long it’s existed, just like the iPhone SE design and the $329 iPad.
It costs them very little to drop a new CPU in a 5+ year old design.
Meanwhile the new MacBook Pro design, the 14 inch, didn’t even first go into mass production a year ago.
It’s still new, it still costs more , no matter which CPU they drop in it.
Actually.... this isn't such a bad idea.
I don't think they'd keep the 1300 bucks entry price. But it would make sense at 1500 with 256/16 (they technically could even make it an 8G machine if they really wanted, but that would artificially gimp the SoC and 8G really isn't very "Pro"). Don't need the ports, Mini-LED and bells and whistles? Yeah then that's not such a bad deal. (I would be such person, for example).
And yes, you could fit the M1 Pro on a board that would fit into the current chassis, and no, battery life wouldn't be the killing blow to this design. The M1 Pro doesn't draw significantly more power than the M1 as long as you don't do things that you would need the M1 Pro for. Just browsing the web, watching videos, heck even working with Logic wouldn't change a lot about battery life. But you'd have the additional computing power if you needed it. You just couldn't sustain it as long on battery, but well, that's why you'd pay 500 extra bucks for the 14 inch, and that's why they would limit it to the M1 Pro - no Max.
And it would make kinda sense if Apple planned to phase out M1, but, for obvious reasons, would need to keep making M1 Pro / Max for some time. They keep the "cheaper" Pro model around, while they replace the MBA and Mini eventually.
I still believe the next MBA will actually just be the MacBook, no more Air, and that the low-spec Mini will eventually vanish again. There hardly is a market for a low-end headless desktop device since people using an extra display usually use them for actual work or semi-professional stuff, and as such (at least in Apple's mind) are willing to pay pro bucks for that kind of device. People that just want to browse the web, watch videos and type up a few notes are supposed to buy the iMac or MacBook, not a device you need an external screen for. The only reason the M1 Mac Mini exists is because they wanted to give those people "something" back when M1 Pro was still a mile away.
So with the MacBook NoPro on M2 eventually (still think we're looking at October/November here) and the Mac Mini not being a NoPro machine anymore keeping M1 around "just" for the entry-level Macbook Pro wouldn't be financially feasible, especially not if they also present a new iPad pro also on the M2.
Yes... THIS makes sense. The one thing that still doesn't compute is keeping the touch bar around. But, fair enough: that already made no sense with the current iteration. So maybe they just keep it for those folks that really like it. At least for one more generation. Who knows.
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Ok, so the solution to MBP 13" M1 not selling great above Air because it has the same power basically and not much "Pro" over Air, and to get more from the fatc that there are clearly people wanting the power of 14" (or close to it), but not that big laptop at that price etc, is to take the same MBP 13" form that sells for $1300, upgrade it to brand new faster M2 that no other machine has yet, show it to the world in the "worst SE macbook" first and undersell even Air just because they can do it with phones and iPads, that actually can have lowest tier everything? That just doesn't make sense.
Btw if it eventually comes to some Macbook SE, the obvious choice of form/body would be the fanless Air 13" I think, with tiny PCB and even lower cost from the beginning. In other words, MBA 13" 2020 M1 8GB/256 is the new SE a year from now, there's no reason to create new machine under $1000, just let it slide down.
I just don't see a reason to create something new for less than current Air at this moment - just start selling M2 Air at $1100-1200 later this year first, and old M1 Air around $200-300 less will gradually take the "SE" position. And in 2 years maybe refresh it.
no. We already know the new MacBook Air is going to be fanless, and it’s going to be more expensive.
It doesn’t make sense to have *two* fanless designs in the lineup.
Just look at the iPad lineup, that should explain why it makes sense.
$329 iPad: thicker, heavier, only comes in space gray and silver, older cameras, older non-laminated display.
$599 iPad Air: thinner, lighter, colorful.
I expect the same thing to happen with the MacBook lineup.
A low end thicker, heavier, old LCD packing MacBook at $999, with the 2016 MBP design.
$1299: MacBook Air, thin, light, colorful, notch, mini LED.
The old MacBook Air will disappear because putting an M2 in it is pointless if they’re just going to re-design it, and the MacBook Pro design is still older.
The iPad history is not fully applicable here, you're "choosing" the more complicated and larger/more expensive model as a basis for the possible cheapest version by completely arbitrary properties - why would 2 fanless designs be a problem when it's the perfect solution?
And, again, it would make the lower "SE" with M2 and fans more powerful than the Air current Air M1 and even future M2 fanless. It's just the least logical thing to do now. And they will simply do what's most logical and easiest as a whole while not reversing a performance order just because they make one specific body longer than another. And the best candidate for any "SE" Macbook simply is the M1 Air with already lowest cost possible with ridiculously small PCB and no mechanical parts. And it's not a priority now, it will get there naturally.
Agreed. It makes the only sense. Especially as the M1 Pro chip needs to be on more machines to recoup it's development than just the higher end models.
Highly doubtful we'll se M2 chips this March when Apple could simple put M1 Pro chips on more machines to satisfy demand for Macs for different demographics.
That is not how it works.
The M1pro would need a complete reengineering of the product because it is more power hungry than the basic M1 or M2 chips.
With your logic might as well stick the M1pro in everything, the Apple TV, the iPhone, the iPad, just… because.
In truth nobody knows anything. We like to think we can make good predictions, but Apple has done an excellent job of keeping things hidden.
Enough low end desktops and portables.
Where is the workhorse desktop pro needs??
Where is the workhorse desktop pro needs??
It could easily be similar situation to M1 Max inside 14" - everyone understands now that Max works best in 16" with larger battery and body to cool yet it's still attractive for people to have it in a smaller 14" accepting it's power hungriness. Same way M1 Pro 8c (+ more binned GPU if realised) could be in 13" with some power draw difference to M1 but with more power potential when needed. Plus more accelerators, ports and external displays - that's the part that can't be ignored and is one of the problems of that non-Pro M1(M2) in 13" Pro.
As for the "logic" - in "more machines" (in the context of Pro only machines) doesn't mean in everything including coffee maker..but you know that
The 13” MacBook Pro has a fan and could certainly handle the pro albeit possibly clocked down. The Mac Mini could certainly handle a M1 Pro. The iMac could certainly handle the Pro.
Nothing to do with “ logic” just basic common sense
2 ports? It has 3 now, and it was 4 prior - and those 3 each have a dedicated controller now so the left and right sides don’t need to share bandwidth. We lost a port to accommodate HDMI and/or an incredibly slow and barely functional SD card slot. And you wouldn’t need to use one for power, because it has a dedicated power connection with the return of MagSafe.
Absolutely. My M1 Air is the best laptop I've ever owned, and great value. But there's two things that would make it even better:
1. Physical button to toggle keyboard backlight on/off (like older MacBooks had)
2. Faster GPU for 3D gaming
Sounds like the M2 will deliver #2, at least!
Errr. this is same chassis that had an Intel CPU+GPU package in it. Like it was not already designed for higher TDP than a M1. The TDP capacity here is overkill for an M1. There is no massive redesign needed at all.
MBP 13" two ports mid 2020
"...
- 1.4GHz quad-core 8th‑generation Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
Configurable to 1.7GHz quad-core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
- Built-in 58.2-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery
- 61W USB-C Power Adapter
- Height: 0.61 inch (1.56 cm)
- Width: 11.97 inches (30.41 cm)
- Depth: 8.36 inches (21.24 cm)
- Weight: 3.1 pounds (1.4 kg)3
MBP 13" M1 ( two ports ) late 2020
"...
- Apple M1 chip
8-core CPU with 4 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores
8-core GPU
16-core Neural Engine
- Built-in 58.2-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery
- 61W USB-C Power Adapter
- Height: 0.61 inch (1.56 cm)
- Width: 11.97 inches (30.41 cm)
- Depth: 8.36 inches (21.24 cm)
- Weight: 3.0 pounds (1.4 kg)3
Same case , battery, and power supply. Same thing. Can handle a i7-8557U ( 14nm ) processor at 'Intel' base of 15W ( and likely quite higher if engaged turbo on CPU and GPU . )
Intel® Core™ i7-8557U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.50 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel
Intel® Core™ i7-8557U Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.50 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.
ark.intel.com
[ i7-8659 base TDP is 28W which clocked a bit higher (hence more indicative of what the performance mode consumption would be. ]
But can't take the approximately 28-32W of the M1 Pro CPUs ? It is the same ballpark. Even more so of walk back to 8 cores and just 14 GPUs.
The system would not be "whisper quiet" all the time, but case not being able to handle the load... not really. Apple might have to cap the all core frequency slightly and perhaps not use the max GPU count but it could be done straightforwardly. The case infrastructure being used here was never heavily optimized for the M1. It is the old Intel stuff.
They are somewhat cramped for logic board space but somewhat just reused the old Intel board as a template for the M1 version.
M1 MacBook Pro and Air Teardowns
Past, meet future—it’s a mix of old and new in our dual teardown of the newest M1-powered MacBooks.
www.ifixit.com
If move the larger M1 Pro closer to the fan then won't need three standoffs for the heat pipe and can just use some of that space for the SoC itself. But there are a few "blank" sections to he logic board that a bigger SoC could consume if move some of the components around. They probably would need to make the speakers a bit smaller to grow the logic board slightly but that would not be a major task. Basically four parts changed. Logicboard which has to change regardless of M2 or M1 Pro . Heat spreader/Head Pipe (which might have to change for M2 also). Left and Right Speaker.
The one quirk might be if there is no eDP output for the Touch Bar on the M1 Pro and there is one for the M2. That is kinds of depends upon when Apple decided to 'kill' the Touch Bar. Given Apple's history on slow keyboard changes I'd surprised if they killed it in the M1 Pro. Maybe by the M2 but they could have been still toying with the idea at that point too in early design phase. [ If the Touch Bar is nuked then wouldn't matter. I have a feeling it is not and "but well already added the support in the design" is one contributing reason not going away very quickly. ]
No. The M1 Max wouldn't fit in the MBP 13" two port case. So it isn't going. The M1 Pro is far too big for an iPad. The M1 Pro is bigger but it isn't far bigger than the M1.
When the M1 MBP 13" launched there was no M1 Pro option to use at all. Apple also didn't really know what the demand for M1's was going to be. They probably expected "high" but decent chance that their projections were wrong. MBA 13" gave them an out to soak up as many M1's as they needed to if they got the forecast significantly wrong on the "high" side. If too low... just customers waiting in line longer. There was no downside not to ship with an M1.
If Apple has a tall stack of M2's lying around and not other systems to soak them up then a "MacBook" 13 could do that job relatively easily. About the same thing though for the M1 Pro. If folks are not buying the very low end M1 Pro in the projected numbers then then it could be adjusted to soak those up and keep the MacBook Pro name. Both are really stop gaps for a case/chassis they already have. At some point in 2023-24 they probably should new a case update that is more purposefully designed for one or the other (e.g., M3 or M3 Pro).