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They have really butchered Messages

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I don't think it's the jailbreak, seems there are a few things going on:
- op doesn't like the new messages (okay this is an opinion, I do)
- op is jailbroken (sometimes this screws things up)
- op is complaining about the delay when pressing message to copy. Seems this is a legitimate complaint, independent of the jail break and it's the same for 5s, 6s and iphone 7. When pressing the message to copy there is a slight delay before the menu pops-up.

The only recourse is to revert, if that even if possible.
 
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Gathomblipoob said:
Why admit to something I'm not experiencing?
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You can't deny that the Messages app has become clunky. You might not notice it because it was a gradual transition, but I can assure you jumping two generations it is quite obvious.
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VanillaCracker said:
There are two things going on here:

1) People. Yes, the guy is dramatic. But please at least respond to his concern. Which includes admitting that the messages app has become clunky, and less clear/easy to use than it was previously; that's basically a fact. I personally think that the thumbs up and heart additions are fine, because the chat is not what has become cluttered, it's the keyboard. I think putting the "messenger app store" in the keyboard itself was a terrible idea. it's not necessarily harder to use, it's just a whole lot more cluttered then previous.

2) Keep in mind you are jumping an entire OS version. The device is going to slow down quite a bit. Call it what you will; planned obsolescence, slow hardware, lack of RAM, the interface slows down, and you can't make that any faster. Do I think that's compounded by the fact that the messages app now is clunky? Partially, but most of it I do believe is simply the jump from one OS to the next, and you not having the latest phone to see what 100% fluidity looks like on the latest OS. I expect devices to handle the following year's OS without much slow down, after that I expect my experience to suck more and more (sluggishness, longer wait times for animation, choppiness, etc).
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Thank you, it's nice to have a voice of support when I'm being ganged up on by Apple fanatics who refuse to acknowledge or even entertain the idea that every aspect of their design and implementation might not be perfect.
 
TH55 said:
You can't deny that the Messages app has become clunky. You might not notice it because it was a gradual transition, but I can assure you jumping two generations it is quite obvious.
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Messages is anything but clunky. You could say the same between Microsoft office xp and microsoft office 2016 with 5 generations of updates or any other two well used software that has gone through multiple generations of updates.

If all you want is the basic stuff, none of that has changed. Of course, this in imo.
 
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I7guy said:
Messages is anything but clunky. You could say the same between Microsoft office xp and microsoft office 2016 with 5 generations of updates or any other two well used software that has gone through multiple generations of updates.

If all you want is the basic stuff, none of that has changed. Of course, this in imo.
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But it is clunky. If it was smooth and easy to use in iOS 8, and now it is slow and clunky bogged down and cluttered by added unnecessary gimmicky features then that is by definition regression.
 
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TH55 said:
You can't deny that the Messages app has become clunky. You might not notice it because it was a gradual transition, but I can assure you jumping two generations it is quite obvious.
Click to expand...

Sure I can. It's not clunky.
 
TH55 said:
But it is clunky. If it was smooth and easy to use in iOS 8, and now it is slow and clunky bogged down and cluttered by added unnecessary gimmicky features then that is by definition regression.
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Unnecessary gimmicky, clunky bogged down are all opinions, as who holds the ultimate truth as to what is necessary vs gimmicky? Certainly not you or I. All I can say is, imo, I like it. Imessage still is smooth and easy to use and comes with a boatload of new features that everyone can use, or everyone can ignore.

It's fallacious logic to cite an opinion as fact and then declare it regression.
 
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I7guy said:
I don't think it's the jailbreak, seems there are a few things going on:
- op doesn't like the new messages (okay this is an opinion, I do)
- op is jailbroken (sometimes this screws things up)
- op is complaining about the delay when pressing message to copy. Seems this is a legitimate complaint, independent of the jail break and it's the same for 5s, 6s and iphone 7. When pressing the message to copy there is a slight delay before the menu pops-up.

The only recourse is to revert, if that even if possible.
Click to expand...

Yeah it doesn't sound like a tweak issue at all. Also I agree the only way to fix the issue is to revert (they stop signing old software after like 3-5 weeks, so that time has passed), or to buy the newest phone. Thus, planned obsolescence.
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I7guy said:
Unnecessary gimmicky, clunky bogged down are all opinions, as who holds the ultimate truth as to what is necessary vs gimmicky? Certainly not you or I. All I can say is, imo, I like it. Imessage still is smooth and easy to use and comes with a boatload of new features that everyone can use, or everyone can ignore.

It's fallacious logic to cite an opinion as fact and then declare it regression.
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Some people notice these differences, some don't. Visit any car forum and you'll see people who notice subtle changes in steering response, throttle response, weight change, everything. While others will say they went from one generation of a car to the next, and the car feels the same. It just depends on the person. For those who notice the difference, it's likely to be something you may not notice yourself, or find that it's not changed enough for your brain to say it's different.
 
TH55 said:
But it is clunky. If it was smooth and easy to use in iOS 8, and now it is slow and clunky bogged down and cluttered by added unnecessary gimmicky features then that is by definition regression.
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I use it pretty much how I always have since about iOS 7, and while there are a couple of extra icons present at times when I'm not typing something and thus they aren't affecting me, my usage is basically the same as it was before.
 
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VanillaCracker said:
Yeah it doesn't sound like a tweak issue at all. Also I agree the only way to fix the issue is to revert (they stop signing old software after like 3-5 weeks, so that time has passed), or to buy the newest phone. Thus, planned obsolescence.
[doublepost=1496081142][/doublepost]

Some people notice these differences, some don't. Visit any car forum and you'll see people who notice subtle changes in steering response, throttle response, weight change, everything. While others will say they went from one generation of a car to the next, and the car feels the same. It just depends on the person. For those who notice the difference, it's likely to be something you may not notice yourself, or find that it's not changed enough for your brain to say it's different.
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I agree and disagree. If "the issue" is the delay, or working differently, no way to fix that, except with an older version of the software. But I guess it's planned obsolescence in the bigger sense. Every company that produces a product stops supporting the product, changes the way it works. But apple doesn't want you to buy a new phone, they want to move the software forward, hence they stop signing it. That's not the classic definition planned obsolescence; which is a balance between longevity and consumer cost.

The software business moves forward and every iteration is different; and different to your brain as well. Each person perceives this change differently.
 
I7guy said:
I agree and disagree. If "the issue" is the delay, or working differently, no way to fix that, except with an older version of the software. But I guess it's planned obsolescence in the bigger sense. Every company that produces a product stops supporting the product, changes the way it works. But apple doesn't want you to buy a new phone, they want to move the software forward, hence they stop signing it. That's not the classic definition planned obsolescence; which is a balance between longevity and consumer cost.

The software business moves forward and every iteration is different; and different to your brain as well. Each person perceives this change differently.
Click to expand...

The conclusion is the same. It's just a matter of your perceived view of how it goes about happening. "they want to move the software forward", or "they don't want you to be able to revert and make your device as good as it was". Different ways of looking at the same decision.

The best reason I can think of for them not allowing you to revert is security, however if it were me, that wouldn't be a reason to stop singing altogether, and would only be done right away once an exploit was discovered that made a certain OS version "dangerous".

I agree that balance can prevent perceived view of what is planned obsolescence, but they only support your device as long as you are on the most current OS. If anything happens, and it needs to be rebooted or restored, you're F'd and can only upgrade to the latest software, which in some cases forces people to buy new hardware due to the newest software not performing as well as the old.

It's a tough discussion, because both sides are valid.
 
VanillaCracker said:
The conclusion is the same. It's just a matter of your perceived view of how it goes about happening. "they want to move the software forward", or "they don't want you to be able to revert and make your device as good as it was". Different ways of looking at the same decision.

The best reason I can think of for them not allowing you to revert is security, however if it were me, that wouldn't be a reason to stop singing altogether, and would only be done right away once an exploit was discovered that made a certain OS version "dangerous".

I agree that balance can prevent perceived view of what is planned obsolescence, but they only support your device as long as you are on the most current OS. If anything happens, and it needs to be rebooted or restored, you're F'd and can only upgrade to the latest software, which in some cases forces people to buy new hardware due to the newest software not performing as well as the old.

It's a tough discussion, because both sides are valid.
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The bolded. Moving the software forward is an objective. "Making your device as good as it was" is an opinion. It's not the same thing. While the argument of installing any iteration of ios is valid, that is not what apple allows.

One can have a perceived view of planned obsolescence, but then again one can have a perceived view of anything that does not have a basis in reality. And of course, in today's market there is always choice.

I still have my ipad 2 as it works very well after 6 years. Good example of longevity, not the perceived view of planned obsolescence as promulgated more than frequently.
 
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I7guy said:
The bolded. Moving the software forward is an objective. "Making your device as good as it was" is an opinion. It's not the same thing. While the argument of installing any iteration of ios is valid, that is not what apple allows.

One can have a perceived view of planned obsolescence, but then again one can have a perceived view of anything that does not have a basis in reality. And of course, in today's market there is always choice.

I still have my ipad 2 as it works very well after 6 years. Good example of longevity, not the perceived view of planned obsolescence as promulgated more than frequently.
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You can use as many fancy big words as you want to obscure the reality, the software has clearly gone downhill
 
TH55 said:
You can use as many fancy big words as you want to obscure the reality, the software has clearly gone downhill
Click to expand...
It seems that many people aren't really having issues (at least no more that usual/typical essentially) using iOS 10.
 
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TH55 said:
You can use as many fancy big words as you want to obscure the reality, the software has clearly gone downhill
Click to expand...
Based on what exactly? Your countless threads complaining about iOS means it's gone downhill? Nobody seems to be having the issues that you're having except for you.
 
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OriginalAppleGuy said:
Can you do a LOT MORE with the current version of messages? YES. You cannot deny that. Therefore, it has moved forward. Really, the OP sounds like a 70 year old complaining how computers replaced typewriters. But keep it coming, I'm getting a lot of entertainment keeping up with this thread.
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I'm 61 and you damned whippersnappers can get the hell off my lawn with your smartphones and electric toothbrushes!

I miss my IBM Selectric. Now has anyone seen my teeth?
 
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Gathomblipoob said:
I'm 61 and you damned whippersnappers can get the hell off my lawn with your smartphones and electric toothbrushes!

I miss my IBM Selectric. Now has anyone seen my teeth?
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Truthfully, I don't think the OP wants to understand anyone else's point of view. It's fairly evident he refutes everything and he can better iOS for everyone, yet he won't even acknowledge what is considered "Better" by an itemized list of 50 things he never responded to.
 
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Relentless Power said:
Truthfully, I don't think the OP wants to understand anyone else's point of view. It's fairly evident he refutes everything and he can better iOS for everyone, yet he won't even acknowledge what is considered "Better" by an itemized list of 50 things he never responded to.
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I have to admit here that I'm biased. I went through this with him and his many iOS threads on my forum. It just got tiring.
 
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Relentless Power said:
Truthfully, I don't think the OP wants to understand anyone else's point of view. It's fairly evident he refutes everything and he can better iOS for everyone, yet he won't even acknowledge what is considered "Better" by an itemized list of 50 things he never responded to.
Click to expand...

While I have been defending the right to his opinion (which I also happen to agree with), I agree with you on this, he is very stubborn lol. Never the less, fuel the fire as you must.
 
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