Things that need fixing on the MacBook Neo

[biggest father1]

Not a thing. We don’t know what Apple is thinking but I would believe Apple won’t include many features they believe people would pay for in an upgrade.

$765 is a lot of money these days. But if a computer is needed prior to the neo reveal the options were a cheap, lousy windows laptop or an MBA, MBP. The MBN significantly changed the landscape but it does what it does. People saying it doesn’t do enough don’t want to acknowledge Apple does sell laptops that have these features, at a cost.

lol.

It probably will have those features, trickle down and all of that. The Neo 2 or Neo+ will probably have more features and memory, and so will the air and pro. And the cycle will continue.

Yes it’s a delayed feature. And I’m waiting for it on my IPP M5 as I already paid for it.

Thanks for agreeing!

 

[Detnator]

Entitlement. My MBP has Thunderbolt 5, I would need that in NEO. I connect my laptop through HDMI, it’s reasonable I want that too in Neo. And don’t forget the memory card. Come on Apple my MBP does it why not Neo.

Hmm… a little unclear what you’re saying. I think you’re being sarcastic here to make a point in agreement with mine. Is that right?

 

[TechnoMonk]

Hmm… a little unclear what you’re saying. I think you’re being sarcastic here to make a point in agreement with mine. Is that right?

It means you need two displays buy MbA or windows laptop. You need MBP features buy MBP. Unless Ofcourse some one feels entitled to buy a Neo cheap for all the features. I moved from Mac Pro 2012 to a Linux/windows workstation because Mac Pro didn’t meet my needs. My AMD/Nvidia workstation has issues but it checks boxes Mac Pro didn’t after the trash can version. I just moved to alternatives.

 

[throAU]

What’s incorrect about hoping for a future feature?

Plus, you’re late to reply to me. Someone already suggested this hub to make this work just like I bought a CalDigit hub for my MacBook Pro to connect my 2 external displays.

How Docking Stations Expand the MacBook Neo into a Full Workstation | Kensington

How Docking Stations Expand the MacBook Neo into a Full Workstation

www.kensington.com

$765 is a lot for someone in retirement thats on a budget. This info isn’t coming from me, it’s coming from someone I know that’s in retirement.

You guys need to calm down, this isn’t that big of a deal. I hope you get some needed rest after stressing about me hoping for 2 display support one day.

I guess when the Neo comes out with a backlit keyboard or 12GB’s of RAM at the same price point one day, I urge you not to buy that as that is a free feature. Just stick with the first iteration since those are now additional features.

In the mean time, I’ll just be waiting for the Apple Intelligent Siri I paid for in 2024 with my iPhone 16 Pro that I haven’t gotten yet.

Yiu can’t just buy a hub for the neo to do multi display.

You need a dock with display link specifically.

They aren’t cheap in the context of a 500-600 dollar computer.

 

[biggest father1]

Yiu can’t just buy a hub for the neo to do multi display.

You need a dock with display link specifically.

They aren’t cheap in the context of a 500-600 dollar computer.

Oh, for sure. Luckily, the company talks about the display link tech in their hubs. They aren’t too bad in price from the looks of it so I’ll probably buy one of these for them to make their dream setup complete.

 

[DotCom2]

I doubt that Neo sales will go down anytime soon. They probably don’t need to add backlighting.

The day (if any) they come out with a Neo w/backlit keyboard, instant trade-in for me.

 

[Mainsail]

The day (if any) they come out with a Neo w/backlit keyboard, instant trade-in for me.

Yep. The lack of a backlit keyboard is a non-starter for me and my old tired eyes. We travel a fair amount for vacation, and often use my MBA on darkened airplanes. It is such a glaring omission for college students that need to work in a darkened dorm room, while the roommate sleeps.

I suspect if you are a capable touch typist then it is a none issue, and many young people are....so, maybe just an issue for an old dude like me.

 

[ikramerica]

Their preference not their workload. The Neo can handle one external monitor. I am surprised they think they need 2 monitors for basic use.

honestly, if they think they need it, I guess they do?

But I have been using 1 monitor as main display + 16” mbp screen as second display for over 10 years, and I get everything done. I mostly use ArchiCAD, excel/numbers, pages/word, tax software, safari, preview, etc.

I assume that if ArchiCAD had true multiple monitor support, having 2 large monitors might make sense, but since it doesn’t work that way, having supporting documents on the mbp screen is fine.

 

[ikramerica]

Yep. The lack of a backlit keyboard is a non-starter for me and my old tired eyes. We travel a fair amount for vacation, and often use my MBA on darkened airplanes. It is such a glaring omission for college students that need to work in a darkened dorm room, while the roommate sleeps.

I suspect if you are a capable touch typist then it is a none issue, and many young people are....so, maybe just an issue for an old dude like me.

True. Somehow my first 40 years of computing was done without backlit keyboards, but I think we were just supermen and women back then.

 

[Zazoh]

True. Somehow my first 40 years of computing was done without backlit keyboards, but I think we were just supermen and women back then.

Most desktop keyboards don’t have backlight either. But if you believe these threads the people not buying the Neo because of no backlight seem to also have three monitors and administer the backbone of the internet while generating CGI for DreamWorks. 😉

 

[Queen6]

Yep. The lack of a backlit keyboard is a non-starter for me and my old tired eyes. We travel a fair amount for vacation, and often use my MBA on darkened airplanes. It is such a glaring omission for college students that need to work in a darkened dorm room, while the roommate sleeps.

I suspect if you are a capable touch typist then it is a none issue, and many young people are....so, maybe just an issue for an old dude like me.

Strongly suspect all comes down to cost. The Neo has a pretty small battery capacity likely related to the chosen technology (lithium-ion). Including a backlit KB might just tip the balance of runtime & cost.

I have an older Acer Switch 5 (Windows 2in1) and it sits in the same price range. While it does have a backlit KB it's limited to just a few seconds once not in use, likely for the same reasons of minimising power usage on a small battery. The Neo is selling strongly so maybe Apple will upgrade the battery (lithium-polymer) & KB on the next release.

Q-6

 

[Mainsail]

True. Somehow my first 40 years of computing was done without backlit keyboards, but I think we were just supermen and women back then.

There is no doubt that my vision in the dark has degraded over time. I sometimes wonder if it has more to do with how rapidly my eyes adjust to the dark, rather than how well I see once they have adjusted....probably both.

Anyway, I would love to hear from people who have used a Neo with the lighter color keys (silver, citrus, and blush) in the dark while the screen is in light mode rather than dark mode. It might not be ideal, but it could be workable. I would not want to trade-off significant battery life for the feature....so, there are trade-offs, including cost.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Just as a data point, I have a work laptop with backlit keys and I can’t remember needing them, ever, so it’s off. But I’m a touch typist …

 

[I7guy]

Strongly suspect all comes down to cost. The Neo has a pretty small battery capacity likely related to the chosen technology (lithium-ion). Including a backlit KB might just tip the balance of runtime & cost.

Li-ion is the better tech for laptops.

I have an older Acer Switch 5 (Windows 2in1) and it sits in the same price range. While it does have a backlit KB it's limited to just a few seconds once not in use, likely for the same reasons of minimising power usage on a small battery. The Neo is selling strongly so maybe Apple will upgrade the battery (lithium-polymer) & KB on the next release.

Q-6

Don't obviously know if apple will switch to LiPo.

 

[Queen6]

Li-ion is the better tech for laptops.

Don't obviously know if apple will switch to LiPo.

Apple seem to think different with the MBA & MBP as they have lithium polymer batteries.

Q-6

 

[Detnator]

What’s incorrect about hoping for a future feature?

Plus, you’re late to reply to me. Someone already suggested this hub to make this work just like I bought a CalDigit hub for my MacBook Pro to connect my 2 external displays.

How Docking Stations Expand the MacBook Neo into a Full Workstation | Kensington

How Docking Stations Expand the MacBook Neo into a Full Workstation

www.kensington.com

$765 is a lot for someone in retirement thats on a budget. This info isn’t coming from me, it’s coming from someone I know that’s in retirement.

You guys need to calm down, this isn’t that big of a deal. I hope you get some needed rest after stressing about me hoping for 2 display support one day.

I guess when the Neo comes out with a backlit keyboard or 12GB’s of RAM at the same price point one day, I urge you not to buy that as that is a free feature. Just stick with the first iteration since those are now additional features.

In the mean time, I’ll just be waiting for the Apple Intelligent Siri I paid for in 2024 with my iPhone 16 Pro that I haven’t gotten yet.

Hoping is fine, but you’re doing more than that. You’re expressing expectations - trying to define what’s reasonable for this machine at this price based on yours (and a tiny few others’) particular edge case needs, that just don’t line up with the intent of the machine.

And I asked you to define how Apple should decide what’s reasonable and what’s not. I don’t believe you’ve answered that…?

I don’t think anyone’s faulting you for “hoping”. We’re disagreeing with yours and similar others’ assertions like “at this price, this is a disappointment because it doesn’t have X when it really should”.

Because, no, it really shouldn’t.

And so ok, I’ll calm down, but let me explain why…

The entire point of this machine is its price. If they could make it even cheaper (price not quality) THAT is what they should do.

They will upgrade the chip, RAM, SSD, WiFi/Bluetooth versions, those kind of things, over time, alongside similar upgrades across all Macs - that’s a given. These are incremental increases in what’s already there.

But Thunderbolt (TB) is expensive no matter which way you juggle the numbers, and always has been.

There’s just no way they can add that, without a significant price increase.

But ok… if somehow they can add any other specific new hardware-based functionality (TB, backlit keyboard, etc.) without (a) adding to the cost or (b) reducing other functionality or quality, then they still shouldn’t do that. Instead at that point they should lower the price accordingly, to make it accessible to even more people.

Why? Because that is the entire point of this Mac - to make macOS accessible to more people than before without making a piece of junk like most PC’s at this price.

They’ve achieved that, (and by the accounts of almost everyone who has used it or reviewed it, Apple has achieved this in spades) by including the most essential features and functionality for the target market, and explicitly leaving out everything else.

The vast majority of the target market will never need TB, dual external displays, and the other things that Apple has left out, so Apple should not add them just for the edge case users.

And it’s not like Apple is refusing to cater to the edge case users. It’s just that the edge case users that want more functionality than the vast majority of this machine’s target market just need to pay for the features they want that so few others do. By buying the Air instead.

Or to put it another way, anyone who wants dual displays simply is not part of the Neo’s target market. That’s why the Air exists (among other reasons).

Maybe, just maybe, they’ll add another level of Neo, with additional edge case features, and leave the base model as is (as they should), but that model will be more than $599, $765, just like the existing higher model with more storage and touchID is more. But additional features will most likely be the cheaper ones like backlit keyboard. TB is probably the most expensive addition they could add so I highly doubt they’ll do that. I expect they’ll continue to reason that anyone wanting that is served better by the Air for what would be only marginally more $ than what that top level Neo would be.

 

[I7guy]

Apple seem to think different with the MBA & MBP as they have lithium polymer batteries.

Q-6

But they put li-ion in the MBN. As with everything engineering there are trade-offs.

 

[Mainsail]

Hoping is fine, but you’re doing more than that. You’re expressing expectations - trying to define what’s reasonable for this machine at this price based on yours (and a tiny few others’) particular edge case needs, that just don’t line up with the intent of the machine.

And I asked you to define how Apple should decide what’s reasonable and what’s not. I don’t believe you’ve answered that…?

I don’t think anyone’s faulting you for “hoping”. We’re disagreeing with yours and similar others’ assertions like “at this price, this is a disappointment because it doesn’t have X when it really should”.

Because, no, it really shouldn’t.

And so ok, I’ll calm down, but let me explain why…

The entire point of this machine is its price. If they could make it even cheaper (price not quality) THAT is what they should do.

They will upgrade the chip, RAM, SSD, WiFi/Bluetooth versions, those kind of things, over time, alongside similar upgrades across all Macs - that’s a given. These are incremental increases in what’s already there.

But Thunderbolt (TB) is expensive no matter which way you juggle the numbers, and always has been.

There’s just no way they can add that, without a significant price increase.

But ok… if somehow they can add any other specific new hardware-based functionality (TB, backlit keyboard, etc.) without (a) adding to the cost or (b) reducing other functionality or quality, then they still shouldn’t do that. Instead at that point they should lower the price accordingly, to make it accessible to even more people.

Why? Because that is the entire point of this Mac - to make macOS accessible to more people than before without making a piece of junk like most PC’s at this price.

They’ve achieved that, (and by the accounts of almost everyone who has used it or reviewed it, Apple has achieved this in spades) by including the most essential features and functionality for the target market, and explicitly leaving out everything else.

The vast majority of the target market will never need TB, dual external displays, and the other things that Apple has left out, so Apple should not add them just for the edge case users.

And it’s not like Apple is refusing to cater to the edge case users. It’s just that the edge case users that want more functionality than the vast majority of this machine’s target market just need to pay for the features they want that so few others do. By buying the Air instead.

Or to put it another way, anyone who wants dual displays simply is not part of the Neo’s target market. That’s why the Air exists (among other reasons).

Maybe, just maybe, they’ll add another level of Neo, with additional edge case features, and leave the base model as is (as they should), but that model will be more than $599, $765, just like the existing higher model with more storage and touchID is more. But additional features will most likely be the cheaper ones like backlit keyboard. TB is probably the most expensive addition they could add so I highly doubt they’ll do that. I expect they’ll continue to reason that anyone wanting that is served better by the Air for what would be only marginally more $ than what that top level Neo would be.

I largely agree with you. The whole idea of the MBN is a minalmist affordable laptop that draws people into the ecosystem. I love the fact that the only option is extra storage + Touch ID. It make the buying decision super simple, and the MBN is all about simplicity. Picking a color is the hardest part.

I disagree with you somewhat about whether Apple will add features down the road, or just lower the price. I think they nailed it with the pricing. $499 EDU is a sweet spot, and the level of demand for the MBN seems to support the pricing. As production ramps up to meet demand, economies of scale will kick-in, and Apple might have an opportunity to add a few features at the current price. The most notable is a backlit keyboard. Apple will gather customer feedback and review for next year. BTW - one possibility is that they make the backlit KB part of the $100 upsell along with extra storage and Touch ID.

 

[biggest father1]

Hoping is fine, but you’re doing more than that. You’re expressing expectations - trying to define what’s reasonable for this machine at this price based on yours (and a tiny few others’) particular edge case needs, that just don’t line up with the intent of the machine.

And I asked you to define how Apple should decide what’s reasonable and what’s not. I don’t believe you’ve answered that…?

I don’t think anyone’s faulting you for “hoping”. We’re disagreeing with yours and similar others’ assertions like “at this price, this is a disappointment because it doesn’t have X when it really should”.

Because, no, it really shouldn’t.

And so ok, I’ll calm down, but let me explain why…

The entire point of this machine is its price. If they could make it even cheaper (price not quality) THAT is what they should do.

They will upgrade the chip, RAM, SSD, WiFi/Bluetooth versions, those kind of things, over time, alongside similar upgrades across all Macs - that’s a given. These are incremental increases in what’s already there.

But Thunderbolt (TB) is expensive no matter which way you juggle the numbers, and always has been.

There’s just no way they can add that, without a significant price increase.

But ok… if somehow they can add any other specific new hardware-based functionality (TB, backlit keyboard, etc.) without (a) adding to the cost or (b) reducing other functionality or quality, then they still shouldn’t do that. Instead at that point they should lower the price accordingly, to make it accessible to even more people.

Why? Because that is the entire point of this Mac - to make macOS accessible to more people than before without making a piece of junk like most PC’s at this price.

They’ve achieved that, (and by the accounts of almost everyone who has used it or reviewed it, Apple has achieved this in spades) by including the most essential features and functionality for the target market, and explicitly leaving out everything else.

The vast majority of the target market will never need TB, dual external displays, and the other things that Apple has left out, so Apple should not add them just for the edge case users.

And it’s not like Apple is refusing to cater to the edge case users. It’s just that the edge case users that want more functionality than the vast majority of this machine’s target market just need to pay for the features they want that so few others do. By buying the Air instead.

Or to put it another way, anyone who wants dual displays simply is not part of the Neo’s target market. That’s why the Air exists (among other reasons).

Maybe, just maybe, they’ll add another level of Neo, with additional edge case features, and leave the base model as is (as they should), but that model will be more than $599, $765, just like the existing higher model with more storage and touchID is more. But additional features will most likely be the cheaper ones like backlit keyboard. TB is probably the most expensive addition they could add so I highly doubt they’ll do that. I expect they’ll continue to reason that anyone wanting that is served better by the Air for what would be only marginally more $ than what that top level Neo would be.

Well, I hate to break it to ya but I’ll be setting up the Neo with dual displays and getting the use out of it that’s needed with the Display Link USB hub that you quoted me with.

Can’t wait to see it used this way with the first iteration of the Neo! Lol

 

[1BadManVan]

I largely agree with you. The whole idea of the MBN is a minalmist affordable laptop that draws people into the ecosystem. I love the fact that the only option is extra storage + Touch ID. It make the buying decision super simple, and the MBN is all about simplicity. Picking a color is the hardest part.

I disagree with you somewhat about whether Apple will add features down the road, or just lower the price. I think they nailed it with the pricing. $499 EDU is a sweet spot, and the level of demand for the MBN seems to support the pricing. As production ramps up to meet demand, economies of scale will kick-in, and Apple might have an opportunity to add a few features at the current price. The most notable is a backlit keyboard. Apple will gather customer feedback and review for next year. BTW - one possibility is that they make the backlit KB part of the $100 upsell along with extra storage and Touch ID.

I feel if anything is added to the next gen Neo, it will be an optional backlit keyboard, even if it's only for the upgraded model. 12gb of ram I think is just a given as its likely the next one will get the A19 pro. I don't see them making many more changes as its obviously selling very well and real users of it seem to love it as is.

 

[Mainsail]

I feel if anything is added to the next gen Neo, it will be an optional backlit keyboard, even if it's only for the upgraded model. 12gb of ram I think is just a given as its likely the next one will get the A19 pro. I don't see them making many more changes as its obviously selling very well and real users of it seem to love it as is.

Yep, I can't help but think that a backlit keyboard will turn out to be essential for darkened dorm rooms and darkened lecture halls during presentations. It's the most important missing feature for the college market.

 

[mpetrides]

Yep, I can't help but think that a backlit keyboard will turn out to be essential for darkened dorm rooms and darkened lecture halls during presentations. It's the most important missing feature for the college market.

Yes, a backlit keyboard is nice and there are some scenarios where it might be necessary for someone who isn't a proficient touch typist (darkened lecture hall being the prime one, since you have no control over lighting in that setting).

But I'm wondering if there isn't a simple workaround for that situation. With the screen brightness set to a little over half on my MBA, I find that if I turn the keyboard backlight completely off, I can get adequate lighting of the keyboard by adjusting the screen slight down, so that it throws light on the keyboard--EVEN IN A PITCH DARK ROOM.

 

[Zazoh]

Yes, a backlit keyboard is nice and there are some scenarios where it might be necessary for someone who isn't a proficient touch typist (darkened lecture hall being the prime one, since you have no control over lighting in that setting).

But I'm wondering if there isn't a simple workaround for that situation. With the screen brightness set to a little over half on my MBA, I find that if I turn the keyboard backlight completely off, I can get adequate lighting of the keyboard by adjusting the screen slight down, so that it throws light on the keyboard--EVEN IN A PITCH DARK ROOM.

Ditto. I think folks like to justify why they did or didn't.

Don't have to. I didn't need a reason to buy one, but I did get one because I wanted it. Same thing for those that don't want. No need to justify a reason. Now, if someone does want to justify it, I'll discuss it because I think no backlit keyboard is a silly thing to bar someone from getting a computer.

Also, if one is going to spend hours in front of a keyboard, may want to commit the layout to some muscle memory. It's a HUGE increase in productivity. When I finished typing-I in HS, my proficiency was 35 words per min. In my peak, last time I tested, I was 135 WPM. Granted, I'm an old dude who spent a life behind a keyboard, but if I can do it anyone can do it.

Alternatively, you can record in Notes on iPhone and then auto-transcribe when done.

 

[Mainsail]

Yes, a backlit keyboard is nice and there are some scenarios where it might be necessary for someone who isn't a proficient touch typist (darkened lecture hall being the prime one, since you have no control over lighting in that setting).

But I'm wondering if there isn't a simple workaround for that situation. With the screen brightness set to a little over half on my MBA, I find that if I turn the keyboard backlight completely off, I can get adequate lighting of the keyboard by adjusting the screen slight down, so that it throws light on the keyboard--EVEN IN A PITCH DARK ROOM.

Might work. Also, the keyboards on three of the Neos are very light, so they might be better than your experiment on MBA with backlit KB turned off.

 

[Detnator]

I largely agree with you. The whole idea of the MBN is a minalmist affordable laptop that draws people into the ecosystem. I love the fact that the only option is extra storage + Touch ID. It make the buying decision super simple, and the MBN is all about simplicity. Picking a color is the hardest part.

I disagree with you somewhat about whether Apple will add features down the road, or just lower the price. I think they nailed it with the pricing. $499 EDU is a sweet spot, and the level of demand for the MBN seems to support the pricing. As production ramps up to meet demand, economies of scale will kick-in, and Apple might have an opportunity to add a few features at the current price. The most notable is a backlit keyboard. Apple will gather customer feedback and review for next year. BTW - one possibility is that they make the backlit KB part of the $100 upsell along with extra storage and Touch ID.

Actually we’re on the same page even on your disagreement point. I didn’t articulate that part quite right.

I said what I think they should do if they can, though I agree they’re much more likely to do what you said instead, including the idea that they only add new features to the upsell model. They’ve definitely got this at an awesome price point for what it is.