Thinking of Mac over HP, why? Battery life. Important for college?

[mosx]

Because they're not that heavy processing? And by the way, if you do shut your mac, It'll just do it next time when it will be able to do it. Tonight I just left my Macbook to sleep, and the maintenance was done when I waked it, and I just didn't know it was done.

Funny. Same for me. I left it asleep all night and all day up until now and guess what? No background processes popping up that aren't normally there.

If you were reading others message correctly you'll see that I said I never used Vista more then 10-20 minutes.

Which automatically disqualifies you from making any statements regarding the OSes features and security.

And one of the difference, is that the security hole that is present on Windows, you can bet someone is gonna use it to infect people. While I have yet to see something like that happen on Mac in real world condition.

Which is why Windows XP SP2, SP3, and Vista and Vista SP1 have yet to have a major infection that wasn't caused by 3rd party software that opened security holes.

Oh, and I do remember seeing an article awhile back. I can't remember if it was on Ars, Engadget, or Slashdot, but it was a study that proved that Microsoft generally gets security patches out twice as fast as Apple does.

Know what? I'll follow your advise.

Advice

I'll try to find a Vista bootable CD and do as you said. Running wild on shady sites. Then I'll try to load an anti-virus and see if it's possible to me to have gotten one. Just downloading the update from Windows and nothing else. That will show you that you're wrong.

hahaha go for it. I DARE you to do it. Vista will run for 30 days without a serial number so feel free to install it in "trial" mode (fully featured and functional). You're going to deal with IE and Firefox warning you every time the site tries to do something. And if you ignore those warnings and choose to download the software you'll have to deal with multiple warnings and attempts to stop the software from Vista as well.

The only thing you will show is that YOU are wrong.

Then you would know that baseline drivers chipped with your system aren't always that great. Neither the windows default one, since they're made to use a big bunch of different hardware. If they do not have a driver updater from the manufacturer, they're stuck with the same drivers. While with a Mac, they can just format their hd if they want, install a fresh OS X, run the Apple update and be up to date for all his drivers without scavenging the web.

You've already admitted to not using Vista, so what makes you qualified to make these kinds of comments?

And what makes the drivers Apple downloads better than the ones Windows uses?

You DO realize that Microsoft posts WHQL certified drivers from the MANUFACTURER to Windows Update, right? And when you install hardware and Windows has to pull a driver from the internet, it pulls a WHQL certified driver from the manufacture automatically and installs it.

So not only are you getting the MANUFACTURER'S driver, you're getting one that is CERTIFIED to work flawlessly under Windows.

Not only that, but Microsoft actually updates the drivers they post on Windows Update. For example, my HP has a Synaptics touchpad, Intel wireless, and nvidia GPU (dedicated). If I do a fresh install using the latest drivers from HP's site and then I go to Windows Update I actually get more recent drivers than HP offered, directly from the manufacturer of the devices. Plus the nvidia driver has the full Control Panel and all of the features. But I don't use that one anyway.

So like a lot of other things posted in these anti-Windows threads, what you're saying would have been true 10 years ago but not any more. It hasn't been that way for a very very long time now.

On the import of pictures, how hard is it to just slide the picture folder from your camera to your desktop anyway? You don't have to use iPhoto.

But I like my pictures organized. Windows Photo Gallery organizes the same way as iPhoto but does so significantly faster. OS X and iPhoto are supposed to be better but you're telling me I have to do things the way I did back in Windows 98?

The drivers that come with Windows are the default one, so you'll be only to do simple task. Like printing, scanning and that's pretty much that without any real features. It's the same with OS X. It's irrevelent to me.

As I said, thats not true. You get fully featured and fully functional drivers directly from the manufacturer and they're WHQL certified for full compatibility and stability with Windows.

Also, as far as printers go, even though I've downloaded the HP printer driver updates, I still don't get full functionality out of my printers. For some reason, Leopard refuses to see my HP Photosmart 475 as a photo printer and will absolutely not allow me to select photo paper. The only way I can get it to actually print pictures from OS X is to send the picture to the devices internal storage and print from there. With my Officejet 5510v I can't scan or copy or anything other than basic printing.

Yet with Vista and no additional drivers I get full functionality from both without any kind of extra configuration.

So what? Windows can't even do true symmetric multiprocessing (SMP). It does Sudo SMP, not the way OS X does it, not the way Linux does it. And XP home doesn't even have any kind of SMP at all. Whichever way you twist it, OS X has better multi processing because of this.[/.quote]

It's things like this that make you wonder just what kind of nonsense people will believe and try to spread about Windows just to make Windows look bad.

Are you the same person who tried to argue this before?

You have obviously never used Windows on a multi-core or multi-processor system.

Windows core processes themselves are not multi-threaded, as nearly all of OS X's core processes are not multi-threaded.

Multi-threaded applications, however, run just fine in either OS. Look at Handbrake. It's a multi-threaded app. You see both cores jump up to full usage and the work gets done twice as fast. Same as Nero in Windows. If you're encoding video with it and you have a multi-core/processor system, the work gets done faster. Look at UT3, a game. If you have a Core 2 Duo and you set it to use 1 core in Windows your performance drops by half. Same with Grand Theft Auto 4.

And other applications in Windows can take individual control of the cores. Look at dbpoweramp. I rip my CDs with EAC to FLAC for archival and quality purposes then I use dbpoweramp to convert the FLAC files to LAME 3.98.2 -v 0 (better than Apple's AAC encoder). dbpoweramp will use individual cores to encode a song. If you have a 4 core system you can encode 4 songs at once.

Windows multi-processor support is every bit as good as OS Xs. Please don't try to spread this nonsense. Even back in the day, Windows NT's multi-core support was fine.

How about all the stories on here of Apple repairing problems out of warranty. My teachers Macbook battery died, they have him a new one and a new magsafe power cord all months out of warranty.

That's because bad batteries are fire hazards and the MagSafe power adapters are fire hazards whether they're bad or not.

Apple has also been on the end of many class action lawsuits thanks to build quality issues so they realize its cheaper to fix known issues out of warranty (like case issues with the plastic MacBook) than it is to ignore it and wait for the lawsuit to happen.

Apple was also the last major manufacturer to announce a warranty extension on computers with defective nvidia GPUs.

Except what, well over half of all Windows users are using Windows XP SP2 with IE6. No UAC, programs run when downloaded, no warning, nothing.

That's not true either. Windows XP SP 2 and the update to IE6 STOPPED automatic downloads and automatic running of software in its tracks.

When there is a multi billion dollar industry built around defending Windows against malware you know there is something wrong. Why should you have to pay for Anti Virus? Even if you use a free AV, why should you have to install it? Why can't Microsoft just create an operating system that doesn't have 70,000 viruses for it?

They already have. XP SP2 was VERY difficult to infect. You had to be a moron of epic proportions to infect it. SP3 and Vista are next to impossible.

This isn't Windows 98 we're discussing here. XP had some security issues at first (much the same way OS X was severely lacking in features and stability at first), but that all changed with SP2.

Yeah and you still don't have true SMP, 7 years and counting after OS X had it.

100% completely false, as I proved above.

We had to wait months for printer drivers after Vista was released. You can argue with that all you want, you might have been lucky, but the fact of the matter is that I and many many others were not.

No you didn't.

Printers and scanners don't even NEED drivers for Vista. You plug it in and it works. It's that simple.

When DOS was around you all laughed that we had a GUI which you all claimed to be "counter productive" and then when Windows does actually get a reasonably impressive GUI after 20 years, you have the sheer nerve to laugh at us?

You realize that Windows 3.0 had a GUI that was VERY similar to Mac OS at the time, right?

And that Windows 95 was leaps and bounds above System 7, especially when you consider that Windows 95 brought pre-emptive multi-tasking to the table which allowed you to actually run multiple applications at once with them having the resources they need, instead of the "in focus" app eating ALL system resources as was the case with Mac OS up until OS X.

You want improvements to productivity? How about Spaces

I used virtual desktops way back in Windows 98 thanks to nvidia's drivers.

Plus many other free pieces of software brought this functionality to WIndows before OS X was even around.

Quicklook

Windows had built-in previewing back in Windows 98.

Spotlight

Is no better than built-in Vista search. It's also something I've never used because, for all general purposes, it's essentially useless.

Stickies

Another thing I've never seen anyone in the real world use. Plus there were freeware apps that brought this sort of functionality to Windows 95. But it never caught on for a reason.

Dashboard

Which is good for checking the weather and not much else.

Expose

Which is cool but doesn't make up for the lack of a real alt-tab solution that takes you directly to the WINDOW and not the application.

Three half assed rip offs of Expose

Flip3D is good for eye candy but nothing else. Having a real alt-tab that takes you directly to the window you want is better than both. It's too bad that OS X doesn't have this.

Dashboard

Yeah Windows Sidebar is about as useless as Dashboard is. At least I can easily disable Sidebar though.

Vistas spotlight rip off searches only file names, doesn't search within the files to bring you better results.

I can see you've never used it.

However, both are useless to the every day user.

When I had mine for a year I will let you know if I wish I can get my money back, and i bet it will be a no.

I wanted my money back after a couple of months

What I don't get is you talk down about macs, but yet own a few. What does that say about you? It's like saying I hate Dells and talk down about them, put people down because they want one or they own one and yet that's all I buy.

You should read what I've been saying

I BOUGHT one MacBook. I'm on the THIRD now because of Apple's awful build quality and even worse repair service.

They've replaced them rather than offering me a refund.

My mac mini is running leopard. I don't know which one doesn't but I bought mine 6 months ago through apple so yea it's running leopard and it doesn't bog down. I have 2gb of ram and the 1.86ghz proc

Processor* not proc.

Take 1GB of RAM out and see how fast Leopard is.

I use my alum macbook (and used to use my plastic macbooks) with brightness on the lowest setting all the time. Works fine for me when I'm conserving battery life, thats usually in fluorescent lit office environments.

Well, as I said, I prefer not to have any sort of eye strain.

But thats not what you said. You said "OS X needs just as much maintenance as Windows and you will end up having to reinstall OS X just as often as you would Windows." Sure, OS X slows somewhat as it gets cluttered, but its nowhere near as much as Windows; and it's way easier to manually clean. As an hourly contractor I've been paid well cleaning and reinstalling Windows many times but I always recommend customers, friends and family get Macs, and those that do have, without exception, been happy they did.

OS X is easier to clean up than Windows? I don't think so. It takes less than a minute to run ccleaner on files and the registry. It takes less time to run disk defrag than it does to run Onyx.

Fast charge is not a feature, thats just marketing speak. It's referring to the natural charge curve of Lithium Ion/Polymer batteries. When the voltage differential is greater (ie as the battery is discharged more), they charge faster. Theres no magic here, all manufacturers are dealing with the same technologies.

You're replying with something that had absolutely nothing to do with what was said originally.

It was stated that Macs have a "fast charge" feature that takes the batteries up to 80% charge in 1 hour. That is NOT true. It takes them roughly 2 hours to get to 80% and then UP TO 2 hours after that to finish trickle charging to 100%.

Everyone is well aware of the fact that lithium batteries charge relatively quick up to 80% and then trickle charge the rest of the way.

The comment was made that Apple's batteries charge to 80% in 1 hour. That is simply not true.

Lenovo is using updated versions of IBMs designs on at least some of their laptops. Thats a pretty board statement to make, unless you've been inside many different models of Lenovos, I'd be hesitant to say something that general. From what I've seen of the Lenovo Thinkpads they still seem like a step up from the rest of the PC competition.

From what I've seen and read (there are plenty of Lenovo dedicated forums on the internet), their quality control is a step down from IBMs.

Thats just BS - I've cleaned a ton of SP2 installs of spyware and viruses. A "non-issue"? Yah right...

It's not Microsoft's fault that people choose to download and run malicious software despite the warnings

Instead of believing mosx and the few people that he knows - try :-

http://www.theacsi.org/ who show that Apple tops league tables for the 5th straight year. The university calculated the ACSI scores based on a consumer's overall satisfaction with a company's customer service, product quality and value, among other factors and Apple came out top again. Apple is well clear of both Dell and HP.

HP scores 73 points and Dell 75 compared to 85 for Apple. These scores are out of 100.


Ironically HP have dropped 4% since last year.

So one place says one thing while others say another? Let's not forget that, for about a year there, HP was parading ads on TV talking about how they won a JD Power and Associates award for their customer service.

Let's also not forget the fact that Apple's customers are willing to settle for MUCH less.

You have people here who have been through multiple motherboard replacements on multiple systems and they still proudly proclaim that they will never touch a PC because their constantly failing Macs are superior.

Apple's higher customer service ratings come directly from the fact that Apple's customers are, perhaps, too dedicated and they somehow believe that Apple's computers are better despite multiple failures. They somehow believe Apple's customer service is better despite the fact that it closes on weekends and on weekdays after 6.

Apple's higher numbers come directly from the fact that they have a very dedicated fanbase that will support the company no matter what.

As we speak I'm setting up a brand new HP Pavilion dv5-1002nr for my aunt, and wow... It just made me MORE grateful for my Mac.
The fans are always on

Which means the system runs cooler, which means the system has an overall longer life span than a Mac.

the HDD is always chirping and LOUDer than my MB

HDD noise depends on the drive, not the computer manufacturer. You could hear the HDD in my last MacBook as clearly as you can hear someone screaming in your ear. However this HDD in this MacBook is near silent.

the keyboard feels very cheap

Compared to the chiclet keyboards that cause typos by not registering hits?

the trackpad is tiny

It least it has right click without any extra software settings or physical activity.

webcam quality is inferior to the MB

I will give you that one. HP's webcams are bad. But even the iSight is no match for a good Logitech webcam anyway.

Also, at 2.0 Ghz with 3GB RAM, it's MUCH slower than my MB @ 2.4Ghz/2GB RAM..

You're also comparing a 2GHz Turion X2 with 3GB of unpaired DDR2 667 memory to the newest Penryn Core 2 Duo at 2.4GHz with 1066 DDR3 in pairs.

You're also using Vista on a fresh install.

Use Vista for a week so it knows what you're doing and learns your usage habits then talk about speed. Also, that system is capable of using 8GB of RAM. Throw 8GB of RAM it and use VIsta for a week and then we can talk about which OS feels faster

 

[VSMacOne]

You're also using Vista on a fresh install.

Use Vista for a week so it knows what you're doing and learns your usage habits then talk about speed. Also, that system is capable of using 8GB of RAM. Throw 8GB of RAM it and use VIsta for a week and then we can talk about which OS feels faster

Oh I'm sorry.. so silly of me to expect a laptop to run just fine with a FRESH installed OS... how ignorant of me!! Oh too bad you can just turn your Mac on and in a few minutes you are ready to go, without being bogged down by tens of annoying programs that come pre-installed on your system... Most average users will NEVER go thru and uninstall all the worthless crap that comes with Windows and it ends up slowing their system down in the long run.

And you need a BUNCH of extra RAM for your machine to even run decently... less the case with OSX, as a mini owner was saying earlier that he was running Leopard with 1 Gb Ram no problem.

I don't know where you get your facts about Vista and XP being almost INVINCIBLE... for average users, all it takes sometimes is to install a TOOLBAR, or click on a pop-up (IE pop-up blockers misses a few every now and THEN) and you've got some trojan or spyware sucking all the life out of your system. Had to deal with something like that last week, when an AVERAGE user came to me with a laptop that was running crazy... it ended up being FULL of spyware and the user had NO CLUE how anything got on there (no shady websites, AVG running 24/7)... But i'm sure you have a GREAT explanation for this

 

[mosx]

Oh I'm sorry.. so silly of me to expect a laptop to run just fine with a FRESH installed OS... how ignorant of me!!

You see, Vista is designed so that it gets installed and it lasts. So that way it learns the way the user will use the system and adjusts accordingly.

It's not like OS X where kernel panics and reinstalls are a common thing, so it has to run fast on a fresh install

Oh too bad you can just turn your Mac on and in a few minutes you are ready to go, without being bogged down by tens of annoying programs that come pre-installed on your system... Most average users will NEVER go thru and uninstall all the worthless crap that comes with Windows and it ends up slowing their system down in the long run.

All of the HPs I've dealt with, including 3 of my own, only had Norton and an Office trial pre-installed. The rest were just shortcuts on the desktop to websites.

Both Norton and Office have complete removal tools.

My first MacBook came with a bunch of board games I couldn't have cared less about, an Office trial, and an iWork trial. My second Mac came with the Office and iWork trial.

And you need a BUNCH of extra RAM for your machine to even run decently... less the case with OSX, as a mini owner was saying earlier that he was running Leopard with 1 Gb Ram no problem.

You can run Vista with "no problem" on 1GB too.

It's a matter of what you're willing to settle for. I ran Leopard on 1GB until May of this year. Only then did I realize just how ridiculously slow the OS was with 1GB. Leopard NEEDS 2GB the same way Vista needs 2GB to run efficiently.

(IE pop-up blockers misses a few every now and THEN)

So does Safari and Firefox. Whats your point?

for average users, all it takes sometimes is to install a TOOLBAR, or click on a pop-up (IE pop-up blockers misses a few every now and THEN) and you've got some trojan or spyware sucking all the life out of your system.

Thats the users fault for ignoring the warnings the browser and OS and Defender would give against installing the malicious software.

Had to deal with something like that last week, when an AVERAGE user came to me with a laptop that was running crazy... it ended up being FULL of spyware and the user had NO CLUE how anything got on there (no shady websites, AVG running 24/7)... But i'm sure you have a GREAT explanation for this/quote]

Yeah, you know what 100% of the spyware is almost 99.99% of the time? Tracking cookies. I remember running AdAware back in the day and it said I had 250+ instances of Spyware. Every single thing was a tracking cookie. You know OS X gets those too, right? Java scripts show up as spyware too

 

[VSMacOne]

You see, Vista is designed so that it gets installed and it lasts. So that way it learns the way the user will use the system and adjusts accordingly.

LOL.... are you kidding me?! I had to re-install Windows every few months, because no matter how CLEAN i kept it, it still got bogged down... and how does the system ADJUST to the user? That's a load of crap...

All of the HPs I've dealt with, including 3 of my own, only had Norton and an Office trial pre-installed. The rest were just shortcuts on the desktop to websites.

Both Norton and Office have complete removal tools.

Come on now... You have to know when to stop making things up. ANY pc laptop you buy today will have tons of programs on there... HP Games (with Wild Tangent which is pretty much an open door to spyware etc, Slingshot crap, Norton (with 3 different items in the Uninstall Programs in Control Panel, that are so easy to miss) trial this, trial that.. things that people end up NEVER using.
Oh and an uninstall in OSX is SUCH a pain in the back LOL ... don't even try to tell me that there are files left over, because those are MINIMAl (unlike windows - where you have to uninstall, AND clean the registry, which your average users will most likely NEVER do)

Thats the users fault for ignoring the warnings the browser and OS and Defender would give against installing the malicious software.

Seriously? Those warnings come up for almost ANYTHING you're trying to install, so I guess the solution would be to simply not to install any additional software.... oh wait, OR you could just use OSX which doesn't have to worry about warnings and such...


EDIT:
Macbook -- Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard (includes Time Machine, Quick Look, Spaces, Spotlight, Dashboard, Mail, iChat, Safari, Address Book, QuickTime, iCal, DVD Player, Photo Booth, Front Row, Xcode Developer Tools)
iLife ’08 (includes iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb, GarageBand).

 

[mosx]

LOL.... are you kidding me?! I had to re-install Windows every few months, because no matter how CLEAN i kept it, it still got bogged down... and how does the system ADJUST to the user? That's a load of crap..

You should actually learn about and use Windows Vista before making these kinds of comments.

Vista is an entirely different beast from Windows of the past.

It is completely designed to learn what the user does and give priority to those applications. For example, look at Firefox. In OS X it takes several seconds to open on a fresh boot. But on a fresh boot of a well used install of Vista? Opens instantly because Vista knows that the user prefers that application and caches data for it.

Also, as long as you run ccleaner and do a defrag once a month, Windows will absolutely NOT "bog down". I know people who have kept their Windows installs going for years just by doing that simple strategy and those installs are STILL as fast as they were new. I've had Vista going on my HP for nearly a year with that and its faster in every way than Leopard. I would have had Vista installed longer but I did some messing around with comparing it to XP to see which was faster.

I'm sorry but this whole "Windows gets bogged down" thing is a complete MYTH spread by the anti-Windows crowd that is absolutely not true.

HP Games (with Wild Tangent which is pretty much an open door to spyware etc, Slingshot crap

HP games is just shortcuts to download the games and software to run them.

Don't know what Slingshot was. Haven't ever seen an HP come with that.

Norton (with 3 different items in the Uninstall Programs in Control Panel, that are so easy to miss)

Guess you missed the "Norton Removal Tool"

trial this, trial that.. things that people end up NEVER using.

All shortcuts to websites.

Oh and an uninstall in OSX is SUCH a pain in the back LOL ... don't even try to tell me that there are files left over, because those are MINIMAl (unlike windows - where you have to uninstall, AND clean the registry, which your average users will most likely NEVER do)

Once again you show your lack of Windows experience. Modern Windows applications completely uninstall and remove all registry entries relating to that piece of software.

On rare occasions you'll have a single folder left behind in Program Files. Which is easier to hunt down and delete than random .plist and other little files left behind all over your HDD by OS X apps.

Seriously? Those warnings come up for almost ANYTHING you're trying to install, so I guess the solution would be to simply not to install any additional software.... oh wait, OR you could just use OSX which doesn't have to worry about warnings and such...

Those warnings only come up when you try to execute system/administrator level changes.

The same way you have to put in your password for the same thing in OS X. When I do a fresh install of Vista or Leopard I have to deal with an equal amount of security prompts in both OSes getting everything setup.

Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard (includes Time Machine, Quick Look, Spaces, Spotlight, Dashboard, Mail, iChat, Safari, Address Book, QuickTime, iCal, DVD Player, Photo Booth, Front Row, Xcode Developer Tools)
iLife ’08 (includes iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb, GarageBand

So?

 

[belvdr]

It is completely designed to learn what the user does and give priority to those applications. For example, look at Firefox. In OS X it takes several seconds to open on a fresh boot. But on a fresh boot of a well used install of Vista? Opens instantly because Vista knows that the user prefers that application and caches data for it.

XP does that too, by the way. See C:\Windows\Prefetch

Also, as long as you run ccleaner and do a defrag once a month, Windows will absolutely NOT "bog down". I know people who have kept their Windows installs going for years just by doing that simple strategy and those installs are STILL as fast as they were new. I've had Vista going on my HP for nearly a year with that and its faster in every way than Leopard. I would have had Vista installed longer but I did some messing around with comparing it to XP to see which was faster.

I'm sorry but this whole "Windows gets bogged down" thing is a complete MYTH spread by the anti-Windows crowd that is absolutely not true.

I agree to some degree. As long as you maintain it, it works fine. Those who install/uninstall programs a lot seem to have the most problems.

Once again you show your lack of Windows experience. Modern Windows applications completely uninstall and remove all registry entries relating to that piece of software.

On rare occasions you'll have a single folder left behind in Program Files. Which is easier to hunt down and delete than random .plist and other little files left behind all over your HDD by OS X apps.

Not entirely true. I have seen some of the latest programs leave some registry settings. It depends on how well the installer was written. I believe even Office 2007 leaves behind traces in the registry too when uninstalled. I haven't done that one in awhile, so I may be wrong.

Those warnings only come up when you try to execute system/administrator level changes.

The same way you have to put in your password for the same thing in OS X. When I do a fresh install of Vista or Leopard I have to deal with an equal amount of security prompts in both OSes getting everything setup.

True, and I think it's about the only way to secure an OS from unintentional damage. Even Unix does this.

 

[mosx]

XP does that too, by the way. See C:\Windows\Prefetch

The Prefetch folder doesn't really do anything. You can delete the entire contents of the folder and you won't see any difference in system speed.

SuperFetch is the Vista feature I'm talking about.

I agree to some degree. As long as you maintain it, it works fine. Those who install/uninstall programs a lot seem to have the most problems.

Exactly.

It's the same way with OS X. Uninstall a lot and you get a lot left behind.

Not entirely true. I have seen some of the latest programs leave some registry settings. It depends on how well the installer was written. I believe even Office 2007 leaves behind traces in the registry too when uninstalled. I haven't done that one in awhile, so I may be wrong.

I don't use Office so I don't know. But everything else I use does clean uninstalls.

 

[VSMacOne]

You should actually learn about and use Windows Vista before making these kinds of comments.

Vista is an entirely different beast from Windows of the past.

It is completely designed to learn what the user does and give priority to those applications. For example, look at Firefox. In OS X it takes several seconds to open on a fresh boot. But on a fresh boot of a well used install of Vista? Opens instantly because Vista knows that the user prefers that application and caches data for it.

Also, as long as you run ccleaner and do a defrag once a month, Windows will absolutely NOT "bog down". I know people who have kept their Windows installs going for years just by doing that simple strategy and those installs are STILL as fast as they were new. I've had Vista going on my HP for nearly a year with that and its faster in every way than Leopard. I would have had Vista installed longer but I did some messing around with comparing it to XP to see which was faster.

I'm sorry but this whole "Windows gets bogged down" thing is a complete MYTH spread by the anti-Windows crowd that is absolutely not true.



HP games is just shortcuts to download the games and software to run them.

Don't know what Slingshot was. Haven't ever seen an HP come with that.



Guess you missed the "Norton Removal Tool"



All shortcuts to websites.



Once again you show your lack of Windows experience. Modern Windows applications completely uninstall and remove all registry entries relating to that piece of software.

On rare occasions you'll have a single folder left behind in Program Files. Which is easier to hunt down and delete than random .plist and other little files left behind all over your HDD by OS X apps.



Those warnings only come up when you try to execute system/administrator level changes.

The same way you have to put in your password for the same thing in OS X. When I do a fresh install of Vista or Leopard I have to deal with an equal amount of security prompts in both OSes getting everything setup.



So?

This is pointless... If there is such a thing as a Windows "fanboi" you are it my friend!
Maybe you're a Microsoft employee TRYING to score points for Windows on a MAC forum... hmm..

 

[belvdr]

The Prefetch folder doesn't really do anything. You can delete the entire contents of the folder and you won't see any difference in system speed.

SuperFetch is the Vista feature I'm talking about.

Is that the same thing where you insert a USB stick and it is supposed to make it faster? Whatever that one is didn't work at all. It actually slowed my machine down.

At any rate, I'm not a fan of prefetching, as I don't do the same thing all the time.

Also, I'm not a fan of Vista either. I don't like the interface or the constant request for confirmation of commands, so I stuck with XP and keep my security tools loaded.

 

[Primejimbo]

This is pointless... If there is such a thing as a Windows "fanboi" you are it my friend!
Maybe you're a Microsoft employee TRYING to score points for Windows on a MAC forum... hmm..

LMAO!! Funny, I use Firefox and it opens instantly.
Oh well I don't know anything and apparently we are all wrong. Oh and the 1 of the people who posted on here seems like a contractor IT guys and I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about too. Us Mac people are all wrong, all stupid and don't know anything.

 

[PeterQC]

Funny. Same for me. I left it asleep all night and all day up until now and guess what? No background processes popping up that aren't normally there.

Reread my message, and look into the tab of Onyx. If not you're lieing.

Which automatically disqualifies you from making any statements regarding the OSes features and security.

I've still used windows (95&XP) A big part (make that 17 years) of my life until now.

Which is why Windows XP SP2, SP3, and Vista and Vista SP1 have yet to have a major infection that wasn't caused by 3rd party software that opened security holes.

Oh, and I do remember seeing an article awhile back. I can't remember if it was on Ars, Engadget, or Slashdot, but it was a study that proved that Microsoft generally gets security patches out twice as fast as Apple does.

And yet how many PC contrary to Macs get infected?

Advice

Considering I'm learning english by myself and that you are more then able to understand what I write about, one typo isn't that important.

hahaha go for it. I DARE you to do it. Vista will run for 30 days without a serial number so feel free to install it in "trial" mode (fully featured and functional). You're going to deal with IE and Firefox warning you every time the site tries to do something. And if you ignore those warnings and choose to download the software you'll have to deal with multiple warnings and attempts to stop the software from Vista as well.

The only thing you will show is that YOU are wrong.

I'll surely hate it, but I'm so going to do it.

You've already admitted to not using Vista, so what makes you qualified to make these kinds of comments?

I've still used windows (95&XP) A big part (make that 17 years) of my life until now.

And what makes the drivers Apple downloads better than the ones Windows uses?

You DO realize that Microsoft posts WHQL certified drivers from the MANUFACTURER to Windows Update, right? And when you install hardware and Windows has to pull a driver from the internet, it pulls a WHQL certified driver from the manufacture automatically and installs it.

So not only are you getting the MANUFACTURER'S driver, you're getting one that is CERTIFIED to work flawlessly under Windows.

Not only that, but Microsoft actually updates the drivers they post on Windows Update. For example, my HP has a Synaptics touchpad, Intel wireless, and nvidia GPU (dedicated). If I do a fresh install using the latest drivers from HP's site and then I go to Windows Update I actually get more recent drivers than HP offered, directly from the manufacturer of the devices. Plus the nvidia driver has the full Control Panel and all of the features. But I don't use that one anyway.

So like a lot of other things posted in these anti-Windows threads, what you're saying would have been true 10 years ago but not any more. It hasn't been that way for a very very long time now.

First, never used Vista for more then 20-30 minutes like I said. But I did use Windows XP FOR YEARS. Considering that feature was not in Windows XP, and look like it won't, I just assumed it was the same for Vista.

Second, Windows XP default drivers ARE crap. They're made to be used with almost every hardware possible, so that at least when you boot it the first time, it actually boot. They're also made that if you have to update your drivers and that you re required to remove the last version, that the device still work with them. Like I said, if your computer didn't came with a driver CD, you'll have to scavenge to find them.

But I like my pictures organized. Windows Photo Gallery organizes the same way as iPhoto but does so significantly faster. OS X and iPhoto are supposed to be better but you're telling me I have to do things the way I did back in Windows 98?

I have to say that I never used iPhoto. Neither Windows Photo Gallery. Way faster to drag and drop then reorganizing them from there IMO.

Also, as far as printers go, even though I've downloaded the HP printer driver updates, I still don't get full functionality out of my printers. For some reason, Leopard refuses to see my HP Photosmart 475 as a photo printer and will absolutely not allow me to select photo paper. The only way I can get it to actually print pictures from OS X is to send the picture to the devices internal storage and print from there. With my Officejet 5510v I can't scan or copy or anything other than basic printing.

Yet with Vista and no additional drivers I get full functionality from both without any kind of extra configuration.

Too bad for you. I've done it from my side with at least 3 scanners and a "pro" printer (used as part of my course). Flawless.

Just a question through. If you hate/don't like OS X, why are you even attempting to use it to print while you could just put all your files on your Windows Partition and never have the troubles you claim to have?

They already have. XP SP2 was VERY difficult to infect. You had to be a moron of epic proportions to infect it. SP3 and Vista are next to impossible.

This isn't Windows 98 we're discussing here. XP had some security issues at first (much the same way OS X was severely lacking in features and stability at first), but that all changed with SP2.

http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2008/07/average_time_to_infection_4_minutes_1.html

and

"almost 64% of Vista users should have compromised machines. "
http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207601217
That make a F*cking lot of morons then according to you.

No you didn't.

Yes you did.
ttp://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2007/04/heres_why_your_hp_printer_still_doesnt_have_v_1.html
http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/adventuresinsecurity/lack-of-drivers-may-be-vistas-biggest-problem-15194

OS X is easier to clean up than Windows? I don't think so. It takes less than a minute to run ccleaner on files and the registry. It takes less time to run disk defrag than it does to run Onyx.

Panther and later versions of Mac OS X does Defrag little over time. No need to use defragmentation if you aren't using many large files.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375

And personnaly, I beleive that using Onyx is a LOT faster then using Defrag on Windows.

 

[belvdr]

Oh and the 1 of the people who posted on here seems like a contractor IT guys and I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about too.

Are you referring to me? This thread is long winded, so I have no idea who you are referring to.

 

[Primejimbo]

Are you referring to me? This thread is long winded, so I have no idea who you are referring to.

Maybe, I read it at work on "lunch" haa haa
I read someone who cleans out PC's due to bad files, viruses, sepyware and so on and told the people to get a Mac. I had a long day at work... funny because 1 of the issues my my DELL COMPUTER!!!!!
PeterQC can I buy you a beer? Wow you found a lot of info!!!!

 

[VSMacOne]

Primejimbo, PeterQC ... we need to stop feeding the troll... it's pointless...

I do have to say that this is one of the best posts i've seen on this thread... I'm glad somebody had the time to research some of this

Reread my message, and look into the tab of Onyx. If not you're lieing.



I've still used windows (95&XP) A big part (make that 17 years) of my life until now.


........

Panther and later versions of Mac OS X does Defrag little over time. No need to use defragmentation if you aren't using many large files.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375

And personnaly, I beleive that using Onyx is a LOT faster then using Defrag on Windows.

 

[belvdr]

Maybe, I read it at work on "lunch" haa haa
I read someone who cleans out PC's due to bad files, viruses, sepyware and so on and told the people to get a Mac. I had a long day at work... funny because 1 of the issues my my DELL COMPUTER!!!!!
PeterQC can I buy you a beer? Wow you found a lot of info!!!!

Wasn't me then. I thought you were referring to my posts just now.

It's funny all these people have issues with either OS, and they work for me.

 

[Primejimbo]

Wasn't me then. I thought you were referring to my posts just now.

It's funny all these people have issues with either OS, and they work for me.

Mine works great also, no problems at all and I am VERY happy.

 

[PeterQC]

I do have to say that this is one of the best posts i've seen on this thread... I'm glad somebody had the time to research some of this

PeterQC can I buy you a beer? Wow you found a lot of info!!!!

Thank you But I didn't have to search too long. Seriously, all theses issue are well documented. I could have put many more, but they were from Mac-users website and I didn't wanted to use that mosx could call it potentially biased.

 

[99MustangGTman]

My MBA battery life is a good 4+ hours, more depending on what apps i'm running/listening to music or not.

 

[Schtumple]

3 and a half hours tops with my MBP, got to 4 hours once, but display was pretty dark for most of it.

I find battery is very very important for me, most class rooms here (UK, Portsmouth Uni to be exact ) don't have easily accessible outlets, so I often have to travel to a 2 hour lecture, get back to the flat charge it for half an hour then go off for another 3 hours without being able to get to an outlet.

Basically, it's better to have a bigger battery that you rarely use up, than a crap one you can never rely on...

 

[mosx]

Is that the same thing where you insert a USB stick and it is supposed to make it faster? Whatever that one is didn't work at all. It actually slowed my machine down.

Nope thats Readyboost. Same thing but it keeps the file saved on external flash memory. The slower the memory the worse it performs.

SuperFetch is where data for most used applications is cached so that way they start up and run faster. Works quite well, especially for slow loading apps like iTunes and Firefox.

LMAO!! Funny, I use Firefox and it opens instantly.

On a fresh boot it doesn't. I've owned 3 MacBooks with various RAM and HDD configurations so don't even begin to tell me that FF opens instantly on a fresh boot. It simply does not.

But I don't know. Mac users are used to slower performing software. Maybe that extra couple of seconds does seem "instant" to the average Mac user

my message, and look into the tab of Onyx. If not you're lieing.

I just went through everything in Onyx and I see nothing that backs up your claims.

I've still used windows (95&XP) A big part (make that 17 years) of my life until now.

Then why do you say so many things that are not true?

I'll surely hate it, but I'm so going to do it.

Do it. I'll be here waiting for the results.

But I did use Windows XP FOR YEARS. Considering that feature was not in Windows XP, and look like it won't, I just assumed it was the same for Vista.

Everything I said regarding drivers applies to XP as well, except for printer drivers. For example, with my HP, again, I installed XP on it to see how fast it was compared to Vista. When I was finished installing the drivers from HP's site I went to Windows Update and it pushed through several drivers for several pieces of hardware.

Second, Windows XP default drivers ARE crap. They're made to be used with almost every hardware possible, so that at least when you boot it the first time, it actually boot. They're also made that if you have to update your drivers and that you re required to remove the last version, that the device still work with them. Like I said, if your computer didn't came with a driver CD, you'll have to scavenge to find them.

Again, that is absolutely 100% not true.

How can a driver be made to work with every piece of hardware?

Second, certain pieces of hardware follow general standards. Like ethernet. Ethernet chipsets all generally follow the same standards and work the same way so that way one driver, whether it be in OS X, Linux, or Windows, will control them all.

Other pieces of hardware, like Intel chipsets, Via chipsets, Intel wireless, etc. all use driver packages that can control various generations of those chipsets. So naturally Windows has the most recent driver from that manufacturer as of the pressing of that disc and it works. Just like how nvidia releases one driver that works with several models and generations of GPUs.

The drivers Microsoft includes are either from the manufacturer directly or, like for networking, the hardware follows certain standards that allow it to work with anything.

For someone who has supposedly used Windows for so long you really don't know very much about it.

Now if you're talking about other things like "Standard VGA Adapter" drivers just so you have video, then yes that does suck. But *gasp* you fire up Windows Update and guess what? It locates the appropriate driver and installs it for you.

That is one fundamental difference between Windows and OS X. With OS X, Apple has to take the manufacturer's drivers and rewrite them specifically for OS X. Thats why OS X on a fresh install has all of the drivers installed by default. You take into account that Apple writes all of the drivers plus the fact that Mac hardware selection is so limited in scope that they can include all drivers for all generations that can run that particular version of OS X.

Windows, on the other hand, comes with basic drivers that allow you to get up and running to connect to Windows Update where it can then download the drivers. It would be stupid for Microsoft to include drivers for every potential piece of hardware out there. Do you realize how many DVDs that would be? Hell, it would probably be multiple blu-ray discs!

I have to say that I never used iPhoto. Neither Windows Photo Gallery. Way faster to drag and drop then reorganizing them from there IMO.

Faster to have it done as it imports. Windows does it as fast as dragging and dropping, except it happens while its copying everything over.

Just a question through. If you hate/don't like OS X, why are you even attempting to use it to print while you could just put all your files on your Windows Partition and never have the troubles you claim to have?

I use my Vista PC for that

http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/arch...minutes_1.html

and

First link talks about something that happened more than half a decade ago. Irrelevant.

"almost 64% of Vista users should have compromised machines. "
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=207601217
That make a F*cking lot of morons then according to you.

And your second link there is basically an advertisement. It's based on nothing more than an anti-virus maker trying to talk about how people need anti-virus solutions.

So you have someone there who has motive to sell their security suite talking about how people need it and they could be vulnerable.

Sounds like someone spreading FUD to push sales ot me.

http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/arc...hy_your_hp_printer_still_doesnt_have_v_1.html

That link is funny. You know why? Because if you go to HP's website and you look at their printer support pages those pages tell you that you don't need drivers! You only need to connect the USB cable and it works. Thats been my experience as well.

Oh and you're trying to pass off nearly 2 year old information as still relevant today? Please. At least Vista works properly with printers. Wheres the proper support in Leopard?

And your second link there doesn't even really say anything at all. Saying people might get tricked into installing drivers? How stupid would people have to be to do that? Again, drivers were a non-issue. Nvidia, ATI, AMD, Intel, HP, and every other major manufacturer had working drivers at the time of Vista's launch or, in the case of printers (as proven by HP's own website!) you didn't even need them.

Panther and later versions of Mac OS X does Defrag little over time. No need to use defragmentation if you aren't using many large files.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375

And personnaly, I beleive that using Onyx is a LOT faster then using Defrag on Windows.

Did you even read that article? It says nothing about OS X optimizing in the background.

Onyx generally takes about 15 minutes to run.

It usually takes less than 10 to do a full defrag in Vista on a 160GB drive (same as my MacBook).

 

[NC MacGuy]

^^^ I fail to see how this extremely long winded bantering back and forth of OSX vs. Vista/XP has anything to do with OP's original question of laptop battery life.

Someone needs to throw some water on the smoldering embers of what's left from this fire.

 

[VSMacOne]

^^^ I fail to see how this extremely long winded bantering back and forth of OSX vs. Vista/XP has anything to do with OP's original question of laptop battery life.

CHAAARGE!!!

I think this thread is just about ready to be closed...

 

[Molopo]

mosx spouts random crap. I'm almost positive everything he says he just makes up on the spot.

Use Vista for a week so it knows what you're doing and learns your usage habits

wtf? I think what you mean is

Use Vista for a week so you can get used to how slow it is.

And the idea that vista could "learn your usage habits" is just stupid. Sure, eventually it might notice the programs you use the most and put them in your start menu, but that hardly makes a difference...

 

[Primejimbo]

mosx spouts random crap. I'm almost positive everything he says he just makes up on the spot.

The only thing I learned is mosx knows everything and all of us Mac users are wrong and we don't know anything at all so we shouldn't give advice to anyone looking to buy a Mac.

^^^ I fail to see how this extremely long winded bantering back and forth of OSX vs. Vista/XP has anything to do with OP's original question of laptop battery life.

Someone needs to throw some water on the smoldering embers of what's left from this fire.

This tends to happen when someone has a question about a Mac. None of us have any clue what a good laptop is and mosx know everything and OS X is garbage and I just wasted my money on a Mac.

 

[Chappers]

So one place says one thing while others say another? Let's not forget that, for about a year there, HP was parading ads on TV talking about how they won a JD Power and Associates award for their customer service.

Let's also not forget the fact that Apple's customers are willing to settle for MUCH less.

You have people here who have been through multiple motherboard replacements on multiple systems and they still proudly proclaim that they will never touch a PC because their constantly failing Macs are superior.

Apple's higher customer service ratings come directly from the fact that Apple's customers are, perhaps, too dedicated and they somehow believe that Apple's computers are better despite multiple failures. They somehow believe Apple's customer service is better despite the fact that it closes on weekends and on weekdays after 6.

Apple's higher numbers come directly from the fact that they have a very dedicated fanbase that will support the company no matter what.

So who says the opposite to http://www.theacsi.org/ ? J.D Power back in 2005 - only slightly out of date (something you are critical of others for) but amazingly back then you were saying HP products etc were rubbish and switched to Apple. Another contradiction on your part.

As for the rest of the comments regarding what customers will accept - do you have anything to back it up or just more of your opinions and nothing else.

You are still wrong about maintenance tasks

You haven't answered why Microsoft feels Windows needs Defender if it can't catch a virus?