'This American Life' Retracts Show on Foxconn Working Conditions over Fabricated Claims

[pcharles]

This is Really Depressing, but useful!

As someone who deals with student and research misconduct cases, and conflict of interest, I find this whole event a little depressing.

However, this will provide me with a nice case study to use in my classes.

When my wife first forwarded this APM story to me as a podcast, I was fascinated by the depth of information he had managed to obtain, and his ability to get around "security" protocols in the way that he did. As I listened, I was not surprised by the revelations that manufacturing is a bad place to work because I worked in that field between my Bachelors and Doctorate, but it was still pretty damning.

Afterwards, I tried to rationalize by telling myself that Apple is not the only company doing this. I think we all know this is the case because the only way to be competitive these days is to make things cheaply, or in places that are cheap! Now we are just left wondering what the truth is. How much of his story is correct?

The problem I have with what this guy has done is the same problem I have with people who falsely accuse someone of abuse or rape, and are shown to have lied about the whole thing. It just makes it so much harder for those people who are being abused to get recognition, and get the help they really need. For me, this is the sad part about this story.

 

[laurim]

This situation bears a bit of similarity to the effects of the revelation on falsified global warming research uncovered a couple of years ago on those both supporting and opposing the theory- it damages the cause (whether the cause is right or wrong isn't the issue, so much).

I hope you're not referring to the email discussions between climate scientists that were taken out of context and misrepresented by the right wing as "proof" climate change data was manipulated. I just saw a report on that on CNN that told how several independent entities examined the emails and determined that there was NO deception or evil manipulation of data. Politically motivated non-scientists distorting information as if they understand the science or simply to deceive people is what creates confusion. The scientists were discussing how to make the data MORE accurate, not deceptive.

I recently worked a meeting for a major seed manufacturer that sells seeds for crops all over the world. Do you really think they would spend millions of dollars developing new seeds and treatments to deal with climate change (they specifically cited climate change as the reason) if they didn't know it was a real problem? America is owned by the oil companies. That's the only reason people fight against the reality of climate change. Well, that and if they accept it they might feel obligated to modify the self-absorbed, wasteful way they live. It's easier to deny anything they do has an effect on anything. Unfortunately, few people have the interest or brains to fully understand the complicated issue so they take whatever their favorite news (Fox) feeds them.

 

[Archer1440]

I hope you're not referring to the email discussions between climate scientists that were taken out of context and misrepresented by the right wing as "proof" climate change data was manipulated. I just saw a report on that on CNN that told how several independent entities examined the emails and determined that there was NO deception or evil manipulation of data. Politically motivated non-scientists distorting information as if they understand the science or simply to deceive people is what creates confusion. The scientists were discussing how to make the data MORE accurate, not deceptive.

I recently worked a meeting for a major seed manufacturer that sells seeds for crops all over the world. Do you really think they would spend millions of dollars developing new seeds and treatments to deal with climate change (they specifically cited climate change as the reason) if they didn't know it was a real problem? America is owned by the oil companies. That's the only reason people fight against the reality of climate change. Well, that and if they accept it they might feel obligated to modify the self-absorbed, wasteful way they live. It's easier to deny anything they do has an effect on anything. Unfortunately, few people have the interest or brains to fully understand the complicated issue so they take whatever their favorite news (Fox) feeds them.

You're hair-triggering off of the wrong part of my comment. Calm down.

It doesn't matter whether the data falsification issues really existed, or were misreported, invented, or misrepresented.

What matters is that the cause was negatively affected, "for weal or woe".

A case which bears close parallels to the issue with Mr. Daisey's falsehoods tainting what appears to be a larger set of truths (with rather clearer evidence than global warming, I hasten to mention).

 

[pcharles]

Thank you for that. Fanbois are missing the whole point (as usual). Daisey fabricated his stories about what he claims to have observed on his trip to Shenzen. His anecdotes are lies, presented as true reportage.

I do not see how this, or the original post, has anything to do with fanboys ( What is it with some people's obsession with fanboys anyway? ) The simple fact is, as you correctly point out later, Daisey fabricated components of his story. If he had, at some point, been open about how he had taken dramatic license with the information he had, people would be less concerned. The problem is that most of us assumed he had done his research and was presenting facts, not fabrications. In the real world people lose their jobs for doing this kind of thing, or become CEO of the company!

Like you say, it muddies the water.

 

[FloatingBones]

I do not see how this, or the original post, has anything to do with fanboys ( What is it with some people's obsession with fanboys anyway? ) The simple fact is, as you correctly point out later, Daisey fabricated components of his story.

John Gruber composed an excellent article about this story today. He responds to a blog post that Daisey made yesterday:

Especially galling is how many are gleefully eager to dance on my grave expressly so they can return to ignoring everything about the circumstances under which their devices are made.

No one is gleeful about any of this. The outing of a serial fabricator is sad. No one, as a result of Daisey being outed as a liar, is now looking to ignore labor conditions in Chinese factories.

In his stage presentation, Daisey doesn't get it, and he has repeatedly doubled down on his bankrupt fabrication. Anyone who claims this is a "fanboy" problem doesn't get it, either.

What will it take for Daisey to get it?

Does anyone really still want to go to this bankrupt stage show?

One other note: in today's blog post, Daisey said:

I apologized in this week’s episode to anyone who felt betrayed.

Why the conditional apology? WTF should my feelings -- or anyone's feelings -- have to do with Daisey's apology? Why not simply apologize unconditionally for betraying the public trust?

Mike Daisey still doesn't get it.

 

[StrudelTurnover]

At no time did this ass-clown ever prefice his "theatrical show" by letting his audience know that portions of his show were total fabrications. On the contrary, he led his audience and American Life to believe that his "show" (and I use the term loosely) was entirely true and based on fact.

Yes, I feel bad for referring to his tales as though they were legitimate.
I imagine Ira Glass feels a great deal worse about it. Listening to their redaction interview now...

 

[SteveW928]

Why the conditional apology? WTF should my feelings -- or anyone's feelings -- have to do with Daisey's apology? Why not simply apologize unconditionally for betraying the public trust?

Mike Daisey still doesn't get it.

No kidding! That's a non-apology. I'm sorry if YOU felt xyz. Nice.

BTW, here is an article from the communications director of the theatre company that adds some interesting details:
http://www.artsjournal.com/newbeans/2012/03/this-is-a-work-of-non-fiction.html

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

This really hurts the case against made in china, but the fight goes on.

 

[FloatingBones]

No kidding! That's a non-apology. I'm sorry if YOU felt xyz. Nice.

BTW, here is an article from the communications director of the theatre company that adds some interesting details:
http://www.artsjournal.com/newbeans/2012/03/this-is-a-work-of-non-fiction.html

I hadn't seen that one yet. I also enjoyed Gruber's commentary on his blog and on his 5by5.tv podcast "The Talk Show".

I wish one of those legal corporations would file a class action lawsuit on the behalf of all of the folk who bought tickets to this show. Daisey has not apologized and neither have the theaters. Sadly, I'm guessing that all principals are so cash-poor that it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

Maybe some inspired artist could do a one-man YouTube special: The Agony and Ecstasy of Mike Daisey (a work of non-fiction).

 

[Frobozz]

Did you actually watch the whole segment? Doesn't sound like you did.

Daisey may never have claimed to be a journalist, but he certainly didn't stand up and say, "Whoa! This isn't all fact" when journalists came to him and interpreted the events that he claims to have witnessed (i.e. facts) which were in fact fabricated (i.e. lies) as things that really happened. Chris Hayes even says at the beginning that he is "learning" new information from non-journalistic sources like Daisey's piece.

Nor did he demure when he was called upon to write opinion/editorial pieces, do interviews (assuming he possessed intimate knowledge on the matter), and cash in on the buzz that his "work of art" generated. You may not think he has "lied," but not saying anything while you know people are misinterpreting around you is sometimes just as abhorrent as lying. Particularly when you stand to gain financially from it - and it's even more reprehensible when you play with peoples' emotions and goodwill in the way he did. By toying with peoples' emotions carelessly, Daisey stands to have done more harm in the long term contrary to his grandiose claims of having improved worker conditions. Worthwhile future attempts in the same way to recruit consumer outrage with heartstring-tugging stories stand to flop as a result of his careless profiteering.

Daisey can try to hide behind the cloak of "I'm an artist, artistic license!" The only problem is that he's become too big to do that (figuratively and literally). Ira Glass really put the screws to him in the TAL retraction piece and it was satisfying to find Daisey squirm around in the corner he's painted himself into.

Yes, I watched the whole episode. No, I don't have frontal lobe damage as you seem to imply. Yes, I disagree.

 

[patsfan83]

Ahhhh, dang. I never knew that. Thanks for pointing that out...I would have been very confused. In Charlotte it plays Friday and Saturday only.

Not sure when it actually broadcasts on air live...but on iTunes it is Sunday nights around 10 I believe.