This article was mentioned By John Gruber about iOS. It's Brilliant and Spot on

Discussion in 'iOS 8' started by hasanahmad, Oct 1, 2014.

  1. snorkelman macrumors 6502a


    Oct 25, 2010
    The trouble there is (at least with iOS) is that if you turn your OS into a barebones framework you need to open it up more to third parties to allow them to fill in the gaps.

    I don't mind the walled garden approach provided the gardener does his job. If he's going to stop third parties from bringing in oranges and lemons, for fear that a weed or two might sneak in with them and ruin the lawn, then he better be willing to step up and grow both of those for me himself.

    If he gets to choose my default email client and mapping they better be good ones, if no one else is allowed to access my call log then he needs to provide the features I'd find elsewhere etc

    I've been a klutz and left my phone at home? Fine, if its still powered up let me log into iCloud thru iPad or Macbook and view my missed calls log so I know who's been trying to call me.

    He writes my geofenced reminders app? Great, let me specify at what times geofenced reminders trigger rather than just where ...Cos getting reminded I need to buy stamps from post office isn't a lot of use, if next time I'm passing it is at two in the morning.

    Better still only enable geofencing during the times I'm interested in receiving them, and give my battery a break the rest of the time.

    On OSX side of things by all means put an equivalent of various iOS default apps on there too that sync with the cloud and propagate the versions on my phone with new stuff etc.

    But don't just stick a functional equivalent on there that apes the iOS version and is so fiddly to use with mouse and keyboard that it turns into a chore. Leverage the additional capabilities of the Mac itself not just 'the cloud'.

    In the OSX version of reminders gimme the option of a spreadsheet style row and column view where I can quickly whack a bundle of entries into it en-masse and increase the usefulness of it on both devices. I shouldn't have to fiddle around with Applescript LaunchD and excel just to achieve that.


    If you're going to curate and nail down your mobile OS in name of security step up to fill the functional gaps 3rd parties aren't allowed to.

    If you're going to go to the effort of bringing iOS features to OSX in name of integration then see it through properly. Gimme compelling reasons for them being implemented on my Mac that aren't just lip service and novelty value.
  2. RedRaven571 macrumors 65816


    Mar 13, 2009
    I agree with this also, if they are going to keep adding toys to the OS to amuse everyone, then take the time to make sure it works before releasing it.

    The issue with Windows releases (it used to be said) was there are a ridiculous number of combinations of hardware on which the OS is expected to run; Apple doesn't have that excuse, there are a limited number of hardware configurations available, all fairly tightly controlled by Apple, with which the software must be compatible. Seems odd for there to be so many bugs.....

    I've been happy, overall, with my Apple products but it does seem like there has been an overall decline in QC, especially software wise, lately.
  3. BJMRamage macrumors 68020


    Oct 2, 2007
    great read here.

    things that are simple are easier to use. add more complexities and things get harder. Apple adds lots of things but not as polished as they used to be.

    I used to remember watching Steve Jobs and others present and you felt the greatness of the things they presented. Now with Craig on stage for much of it, he feels so forced...i see him like a used car salesman...I don't trust his enthusiasm as much as I did with Steve on stage.
  4. RickInHouston macrumors 65816

    May 14, 2014
    Starting to think my Nexus 5 'just works' and my 5s 'just doesn't.'
  5. oldmacs, Oct 2, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014

    oldmacs macrumors 601


    Sep 14, 2010
    I'ved updated to .0s of each Version of iOS since iPhone OS 3, and tiger (but I skipped snow leopard) and while there have always been a few bugs, iOS and Mavericks have taken the cake for lack of stability.
  6. johnnyboy360 macrumors regular

    Aug 28, 2010
    The problem with having one person oversee all software is that his workload is multiplied by however many different softwares are being developed. Craig Federighi oversees iOS, OS X and probably all the applications developed by Apple. So lets see, thats probably about 10 different softwares he needs to keep an eye on. You have iOS, OS X, iWork applications (6 of them I believe, then they have to design 2 lots of them for Mac and iOS.), then you got their pro apps (Aperture, Final Cut, etc). So there is a lot of software you have to keep watch and make sure they are going to work. I'm not defending him, I'm just saying that maybe Apple need to have two team leaders for software. One for OS X and one for iOS. That way, the workload is reduced and there is more time to keep watch over a certain category of software.

    Just my 2 cents.
  7. X-X macrumors 6502

    Aug 22, 2014
    That's what Apple always had and it worked.

    But Tim Cook changed that in 2012 and since then all Software sucked most of the time.

    It's the decisions of Tim Cook that slowly turn Apple into the new Microsoft.
  8. I7guy macrumors Core


    Nov 30, 2013
    Gotta be in it to win it
    Actually I'm glad you said this as I view it as a positive.

    And who is j.g. And why should I care?
  9. cmChimera macrumors 68040


    Feb 12, 2010
    iOS 8 has been solid for me. I've run into a couple bugs with the lock screen (won't swipe up for camera) but otherwise good. The 8.0.1 update was pretty terrible. I'm really not sure how that happened, but I'm not all that willing to say Apple lost its way because of it.

    There are some things the article I agree with, such as the iPhoto comment. Photos app for Mac needs to be released yesterday (Though I have no complaints about iTunes). And I would say that the yearly cycle is causing Apple headaches. They either need to slow down, or get a bigger or better (or both) team together. Though this really only applies to iOS for me. I haven't had any issues with OS X at all. Yosemite is running swimmingly for me.
  10. krantiredeyes macrumors newbie

    Nov 13, 2013
    UI change

    I remember everyone were saying that ios was getting so stale before io7 came out. But in my opinion, there was no need for an UI change by Jony. They could have added new functionality to the old UI. I get the feeling that internal politics forced Scott Forstall out(MAPS was just an excuse) and Jony felt the need to create a new UI for some reason. The new functionality, the new openness is all welcome but there was nothing wrong with the old UI. In fact, the old UI (skeumorphism) was what made using iphones FUN. The real-like animations, though slow, were so awesome to use. Every person could easily navigate even if it was their first time. But now, no one knows what is clickable, what takes you to the previous screen, etc. The pop ups are so uninteresting (Ex: CANCEL and OK look exactly the same). Users have to actually read them. Can they not just have one in green and the other in red ? The HIDE button on the dial pad during a call, etc. seem something is missing.

    The new UI looks less fun and more serious with all the text. To compensate that, they created comic looking icons (some are good but some are hideous).

    Even with Steve Jobs, we all hated every announcement bocz there was always something deliberately not given to customers and 1-2 years down the lane, we learned to deal with his decisions. But atleast if you used the way Steve Jobs wanted you to, he made you happy.

    But Tim Cook (who is extremely capable with supply chain management), seems not to have that inbuilt/natural eagerness to do magic with products. He is creative in making more money for Apple. At the end of the day, he is not a product guy.
  11. Sasparilla, Oct 2, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014

    Sasparilla macrumors 65816

    Jul 6, 2012
    Very well said. I'd move iOS for 2 years is fine and consider going back to 3 years for OS X... I thought the article was good as well...the guy is obviously a iOS developer.

    Something else here Steve knew how to write software, test and checked products unmercifully prior to release (perhaps Forestall did extra testing as well, forget the map data issue there...) - knowing what to look for (not that everything was caught, but it was alot less that got through). That last, serious, big check is gone....and it was a good check on software QA for the company - Apple needs to reorganize their QA testing groups and up their game seriously as their reputation is taking a hit and over time will diminish the brand. JMHO...
  12. atlchamp macrumors 68000


    Jun 19, 2012
    -_______________- how?
  13. Woochifer macrumors 6502a

    Apr 22, 2007
    I agree with the general thrust of the article that Apple might be trying to do too much at once, and changing things for sake of change.

    People though seem to be forgetting just how massive a change iOS 8 is under-the-hood. It might not look like much because the UI changes are minor compared to iOS 7, but introducing extensions, 4,000 new APIs, continuity features, and a new programming language is not a minor undertaking.

    iOS 7 was the big user-facing change, while iOS 8 is the big developer-facing change. The 64-bit transition was the big under-the-hood change with iOS 7, and 64-bit devices indeed crashed twice as often. On my 5s, iOS 8 is much more stable than iOS 7 was upon release. In terms of stability and performance, it's now easily on par with 7.1.2. But, iOS 8 also seems to have more headscratching changes and random bugs (e.g., the reported Bluetooth and wi-fi issues).

    Might not be possible given how quickly the mobile market is evolving, but Apple might need to do the equivalent of a Snow Leopard update (i.e., "zero new features"), and take a step back in order to focus on tightening up the OS so that it runs faster and more reliably. They've already done a lot of heavy lifting with the 64-bit transition and adding a long list of new features and capabilities.

    With OS X, Apple did not follow any fixed schedule for a long time. That allowed the software to bake until it was at a certain level of readiness. Putting both OS X and iOS on parallel annual cycles is a precarious high wire act, and buggy releases might be the not-so-surprising outcome of letting external demands dictate the schedule.
  14. urkel macrumors 68030

    Nov 3, 2008
    Just wait until you try iTunes 12. Once again, change for the sake of change rather than to be improved.
  15. redman042 macrumors 68030


    Jun 13, 2008
    People, we can't have our cake and eat it too. Either we want Apple to "keep up with Android" and keep adding hot new features, or we want them to slow down and refine, refine, refine before releasing.

    It's easy to say the first few generations of iOS "just worked" and that it should still be that way, but keep in mind those generations of iOS did not have a lot of things. There was no notification center, no multitasking, no Siri, and heck for a while there weren't even third party apps. Any coders in the room should know right away that less features equals less things to debug and less things to go wrong.

    iOS 8 is probably ten times the number of lines of code of iPhone OS 1. I would not want to be in charge of iOS development today, because I imagine it is a next to impossible job.

    I'm sure there are ways Apple could do better, but iOS is getting incredibly complex and feature-rich and I don't think we will see the level of perfection we used to see ever again, from Apple or any competitor for that matter.
  16. Max(IT) Suspended


    Dec 8, 2009
    I just don't care about this kind of articles because they basically are plain false.
    Every real Apple user, and I mean long time Apple user like me (1989....) know that. Apple has always been criticized and always will be.
    It's hilarious how iOS 8 today is defined as buggy while iOS 7 is missed so badly, when one year ago people were whining about the buggy iOS 7 and the missing iOS 6. The same for the hardware.
    Apple always have been criticized over anything. It's human nature.
  17. hasanahmad thread starter macrumors 65816

    May 20, 2009
    Your post sounds like you didn't read the article because he mentions ios 7 sucked similarly


    This is not the argument, the argument is Apple should slow down

    If apple goes at the current pace it will look like this

    iPhone 6S - iOS 9
    iPhone 7 - iOS 10
    iPhone 7S - iOS 11

    Whereas it should be:

    iPhone 6S - iOS 8.5
    iPhone 7 - iOS 9
    iPhone 7S - iOS 9.5
  18. appleii.c macrumors 6502


    Mar 18, 2013
    I've said this numerous times... One of the things Steve Jobs had, that few seem to point out, is that he didn't give a crap about the board or the shareholders. He would release WHAT he wanted, WHEN he wanted and HOW he wanted. He didn't always get it right, but when he did, it was a HUGE hit.

    I think what will be the downfall of Apple... and by downfall I mean them becoming a very good company; Still among the best, but no longer alone on the hilltop as the envy of others... Their downfall will be the fact that now they are appeasing the board and the stockholders. They all want a phablet, they all want quicker release cycles (which means quicker testing), they want many many features to compete with android and windows. They want cheaper products (which means cheaper components, cutting corners on manufacturing).

    They will soon be doing things the same way every other company is doing it. I guess "Think Different" is fading away.
  19. matttye macrumors 601

    Mar 25, 2009
    Lincoln, England
    iTunes on PC is awful.
    iOS 8 has nice features, but is also awful because it's an unstable piece of crap.
  20. I7guy macrumors Core


    Nov 30, 2013
    Gotta be in it to win it
    Apple has to keep up the pace to stay ahead. They might lose some customers, but they will gain more than they will lose.

    Yeah, they screwed up with 8.0.1 and now have 8 lives.

    Of course it's easy to play arm chair CEO.
  21. bmwtech113 macrumors member

    Jun 10, 2010
    Knoxville, TN
    For those that want the latest and greatest features and were willing to put up with some bugs, that's what jailbreak is good for. For those of us that want a stable phone with decent features, we had iOS until iOS 7.
    I can definitely tell the attention to detail has been gone since iOS 7.
    I had tried android multiple times and always went back to iOS because it seemed well thought out and was always smooth. Now sometimes I feel like my iPhone 6 is running android because of all glitches.
  22. I7guy macrumors Core


    Nov 30, 2013
    Gotta be in it to win it
    I know how you feel, I really took a leap of faith with IOS 6 as I was unhappy with the issues. Seems like apple always has some loose ends with every new operating system release.
  23. X-X macrumors 6502

    Aug 22, 2014
    No, this started with iOS 7.

    Before .0 releases had minor bugs maybe in one part of the system, nothing big.

    Now .0 releases are like alpha versions, pretty much unusable until months later.
  24. macduke macrumors G4


    Jun 27, 2007
    Central U.S.
    Basing how long it will take for a developer to properly implement an feature for your upcoming operating system on the position of the earth around the sun seems pretty dumb. They should only release software when it is right. I was just talking about this in a thread earlier today. If they really want to stick to that rigid schedule then maybe even a tick/tock cycle would work. Make it rock solid with performance enhancements, then add new features the next year, and so on and so forth. Right now they are narrowing the gap with Android, and not in a good way, but in the "this is hard to use, inconsistent and buggy" kind of way that people like my mom or grandparents don't have time to mess with or figure out. I got everyone in my family on Apple gear a few years ago and finally stopped being used as tech support. Sure, there would be the occasional question, but nothing like having to rebuild registry hives on my mom's Dell. Increasingly I'm having to spend more time getting their iCloud accounts sorted out, or trying to debug some mysterious issue that is causing their phone to only ring sometimes, etc.
  25. I7guy macrumors Core


    Nov 30, 2013
    Gotta be in it to win it
    IOS 6 was a big issue in the battery life department from what I remember. It exemplified the wall hugging. There may be other stuaff but I didn't feel IOS 8 was any worse then 6.

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