Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Some people still don't understand why Apple started making new maps. WSJ, June 4th, 2012;

Honestly, I don't get why WSJ tried to write the article in a way that tried to defend Apple and make Google the "villain," if you will, who demanded too much. Google has a dam* good product and it is their right to ask money (or other services) from Apple for its use on Apple's devices. Of course, we might never know what Google asked for in return for the use of its services... we can only guess from shady 3rd party reports like on WSJ... (yes, even an article on WSJ which cites "people" or "sources" doesn't constitute proof). But it doesn't seem fair to right away blame Google for being greedy when you don't even know the circumstances behind the deal, much less the deal itself.

Look, I don't like half of what Google does (including shamelessly tracking people to advertise or shamelessly diverting profits to offshore countries, etc), but you have to give it up to Google for making dam* good maps. I can't think of any other company who would've invested as much as Google did in creating Gmaps with Street View. I can only hope that Apple will throw in a couple of billion from its billions strong cash pile into Apple Maps and get us a good alternative. And for making that investment, Google has every right to sell it at a price it thinks is reasonable. It's just capitalism.

But not knowing the price they set, or the deals Google proposed is reason enough to not start blaming Google for the switch to Apple Maps. It's like blaming your friend because you read somewhere that your friend didn't pay you back, without feeling the need to verify that story somewhere else first.
 
Honestly, I don't get why WSJ tried to write the article in a way that tried to defend Apple and make Google the "villain," if you will, who demanded too much. Google has a dam* good product and it is their right to ask money (or other services) from Apple for its use on Apple's devices. Of course, we might never know what Google asked for in return for the use of its services... we can only guess from shady 3rd party reports like on WSJ... (yes, even an article on WSJ which cites "people" or "sources" doesn't constitute proof). But it doesn't seem fair to right away blame Google for being greedy when you don't even know the circumstances behind the deal, much less the deal itself.

Look, I don't like half of what Google does (including shamelessly tracking people to advertise or shamelessly diverting profits to offshore countries, etc), but you have to give it up to Google for making dam* good maps. I can't think of any other company who would've invested as much as Google did in creating Gmaps with Street View. I can only hope that Apple will throw in a couple of billion from its billions strong cash pile into Apple Maps and get us a good alternative. And for making that investment, Google has every right to sell it at a price it thinks is reasonable. It's just capitalism.

But not knowing the price they set, or the deals Google proposed is reason enough to not start blaming Google for the switch to Apple Maps. It's like blaming your friend because you read somewhere that your friend didn't pay you back, without feeling the need to verify that story somewhere else first.

We know google has recently upped the cost to businesses which is why companies are ditching google.

That WSJ states that google wanted their branding more prominent and they wanted latitude added in. I count both of those unreasonable when google are already being paid for the use of service and would have questioned apples business sense if they had accepted it.

Plus we all know google hindered street view coming to iOS whilst it was a big feature on android at the time...
 
We know google has recently upped the cost to businesses which is why companies are ditching google.

That WSJ states that google wanted their branding more prominent and they wanted latitude added in. I count both of those unreasonable when google are already being paid for the use of service and would have questioned apples business sense if they had accepted it.

Plus we all know google hindered street view coming to iOS whilst it was a big feature on android at the time...

I think that was one of the points I was trying to make. People here are angry at Google because according to WSJ (who is citing anonymous sources), Google upped the price, etc.

My point is that you can't go off of a WSJ article that is at best only anonymously citing people with "insider knowledge." Until we see the transcripts of their meetings, or until we see the contracts that Google/Apple signed, or the second best option being Vic Gundotra or Phil Schiller dishing out on record what happened at the meeting, there is no way to 100% confirm anything that WSJ says. So we can't just take WSJ's article and start blaming Google for failed (or unfair) negotiations. WSJ's article itself is twice removed from reality, because it is reporting on a story... about the stories and opinions of people supposedly involved. That is NOT proof.

Like I said, it's like believing your friend ripped you off or something simply because your local newspaper ran a story saying that. Obviously the first thing any intelligent person would do if they were to see such a story, is verify the report and see if their friend actually does owe money or not, before jumping to conclusions.
 
I think that was one of the points I was trying to make. People here are angry at Google because according to WSJ (who is citing anonymous sources), Google upped the price, etc.

My point is that you can't go off of a WSJ article that is at best only anonymously citing people with "insider knowledge." Until we see the transcripts of their meetings, or until we see the contracts that Google/Apple signed, or the second best option being Vic Gundotra or Phil Schiller dishing out on record what happened at the meeting, there is no way to 100% confirm anything that WSJ says. So we can't just take WSJ's article and start blaming Google for failed (or unfair) negotiations. WSJ's article itself is twice removed from reality, because it is reporting on a story... about the stories and opinions of people supposedly involved. That is NOT proof.

Like I said, it's like believing your friend ripped you off or something simply because your local newspaper ran a story saying that. Obviously the first thing any intelligent person would do if they were to see such a story, is verify the report and see if their friend actually does owe money or not, before jumping to conclusions.

The pricing being upped was actually from many places, not just WSJ.

Plus surely google would have sued the hell out of WSJ if there was no proof.....
 
You expect in 3(-ish) months they'll have added public transport data for around the world (and all the other missing features)? Big bet! It will take years for Apple maps to catch up to Google. We must expect an inferior product for some time, while Apple builds its map database. That's the nature of the beast.

I am sorry I didnt know you had access to Apples use of resources and employee data. Jeez

the performance difference between beta 1 and 2 is HUGEEE, not something I expected so early.

And you realize Apple is relying on more than one map provider? It is very possible for them to add more detailed maps by october.

Lastly I already much prefer the new maps to google maps. The turn by turn
directions itself makes the upgrade to iOS 6 worth it. The direction on iOS google maps was horrid. The only thing actually missing in Apple maps is street view
 
lol so just because it proves you wrong, you try and claim its made up?!

I don't trust an unsourced newspaper quote, no.

You'd think if it was made up, the WSJ would have been challenged over it and withdrawn the article....

Why? It's run hundreds or articles over the last few years over new iPhone rumours than have turned out to be absolute nonsense.

US libel law is a mess. You have to prove that this article is actually defamatory and damages Google's business. It isn't. Companies routinely just ignore this sort of idle speculation.

It does, google blatantly made unreasonable demands in order for apple to e able to have turn by turn. Plus street view was delayed for ages on iOS

What's "unreasonable" about them? It's a negotiation. What is given is a reasonable starting point, and indicatesa severe lack of cost increases.

All the evidence would suggest Street View's release in iOS was down to Apple's unwillingness to launch a code change.

We only have to look at YouTube. The app is squandered, lazy and has barely been updated in five years. The webapp has flown ahead and gained significant features.

What's the difference?

The webapp isn't written by Apple.

Phazer

----------

Plus surely google would have sued the hell out of WSJ if there was no proof.....

Under what law, exactly?
 
There's a reason why Apple has basically stopped denying apps based on "duplicate functionality". US regulators are just waiting for Apple to ban a huge company like Google from their platform. No way Apple will keep the app off the App Store if Google creates it.

I dont know, we'll see.
 
This new maps makes me not want to upgrade. I live in Boston and use the transit directions all the time. I heard at first that street view would be gone, a feature I use a lot but not a deal breaker . No transit? No way I'll upgrade.
 
This new maps makes me not want to upgrade. I live in Boston and use the transit directions all the time. I heard at first that street view would be gone, a feature I use a lot but not a deal breaker . No transit? No way I'll upgrade.

Wait to see how developers integrate transit times and directions into the app through the API before writing it off.
 
That WSJ states that google wanted their branding more prominent and they wanted latitude added in. I count both of those unreasonable when google are already being paid for the use of service and would have questioned apples business sense if they had accepted

Unreasonable? do you not get how businesses work? if apple didn't want googles name, I'm sure there was a really, really high price for that.

but if you want it for a cheaper price, it comes with a price of branding.

this is not unlike the concept of ad supported apps and paid apps, except instead of free and paid, it's paid and pay even more.

unreasonable is not the correct term. it's business. apple and google couldn't come to an agreement, so they ditched google.

in a few months we'll see if it was a wise move for both apple or google. maybe google missed out on business, or maye apple did.
 
I was just in NY this week and it was my first time ever visiting. I must say that the current google maps setup on my iPhone was very helpful for me. Ditching the transit option is maps is a big fail.
 
I was just in NY this week and it was my first time ever visiting. I must say that the current google maps setup on my iPhone was very helpful for me. Ditching the transit option is maps is a big fail.

Thumbs up for there finally being another person in this thread who actually had experience with this topic, and posted. People are dismissing this way too lightly. I don't live in NYC nor use the feature, but I can understand why people who rely on it to make their lives easier would be upset. It's a big deal.
 
Thumbs up for there finally being another person in this thread who actually had experience with this topic, and posted. People are dismissing this way too lightly. I don't live in NYC nor use the feature, but I can understand why people who rely on it to make their lives easier would be upset. It's a big deal.
Thumbs down for calling not using the new Maps app as "experience" in using it. Twisted logic.





Michael
 
Once again, Apple Maps WILL have a transit feature on day one....get over it until someone has a chance to even try it out.

I live in NY and rely entirely on transit. The amount of data made available by the MTA is enormous, and getting very precise. More and more subway trains have arrival times published. And they are rolling out bus arrival times (already in Staten Island, moving to the Bronx, and I hope soon in the other 3 boroughs.

To me, that is the killer feature: minimize waiting in a train station or bus stop for a connection. Route me through the shortest connections. Google hasn't helped me with that. Dedicated apps have (MTA has a competition for the best ones: http://mtaappquest.com/

I'm still waiting for the multi-modal app (bus+subway): I would love to have Embark + OnBoard rolled into one. I'm still not clear how the multi-modal transit info will work. Picture this:
In Maps, you search for directions using transit. It will direct you to select one of your transit apps (or download one from the App Store). But what if your selected transit app is subway only or bus only (like Embark or OnBoard)? Will it tell you that you can also get a bus instead of walking a mile? Will it direct you to another app? Will all apps have to be all-modal? This can be a killer in NY. Apple has to really be careful here.

But I think Apple's approach of linking to these apps will *allow* for a truly great solution. Maybe it will not be completely integrated like Google (I agree that jumping around apps will be less than "Apple-like"), but I don't think that this will be a killer difference. What I want is precise time and route data. Tell me which of the three options to commit to that will save me time and minimize transfer waiting. And please tell me if the app does not have some particular mode of transit.

My expectation is that map and transit data will lag behind google for a while, but this will depend on the speed of the vibrant app developers in NY.

example: this weekend Embark told me to stay on a local train instead of doing my typical one-stop change to the express. The reason was that by staying in the local, I would catch the express further down with just a couple of minutes of wait, instead of waiting for over ten minutes at the next stop. Much nicer ride since it reduces the stinkiness of the NY subway stations.
 
Another thing I would like, but probably very difficult to maintain is the ability to route by price...or avoidance...I usually want to completely ignore the train options that have me transfer to a bus at some stations....things like that.
 
Another thing I would like, but probably very difficult to maintain is the ability to route by price...or avoidance...I usually want to completely ignore the train options that have me transfer to a bus at some stations....things like that.

Actually I see this as an advantage that iOS will have over Android. Wouldn't be hard for a developer to make the "cheapskate" transit app. Then, those who want it, can just download it and link it to your maps. Much harder to get a universal solution with that option than add it as an optional app.
 
Actually I see this as an advantage that iOS will have over Android. Wouldn't be hard for a developer to make the "cheapskate" transit app. Then, those who want it, can just download it and link it to your maps. Much harder to get a universal solution with that option than add it as an optional app.
Don't go ruining the pity-party, dammit!

;)


Michael
 
Actually I see this as an advantage that iOS will have over Android. Wouldn't be hard for a developer to make the "cheapskate" transit app. Then, those who want it, can just download it and link it to your maps. Much harder to get a universal solution with that option than add it as an optional app.

Well, we obviously haven't seen it in action, but I'm imagining this is why Apple is heading down this route. The third party apps that will integrate with Maps can be the best ones for a particular city or provide the best information for each user.

They feel it is the right way to go for a reason...I bet it will kick ass. The only big downside I see is that as a frequent traveler, I may have to download a universal transit app that applies to multiple cities and not have as many features or research apps that are the best for each city I may be visiting.

Either way, at least I'll have a choice of the information/data I want to use.
 
New rule: you can only call yourself a New Yorker if you were born in the 5 boroughs, you love the Yankees and you've fallen asleep on the subway and missed your stop at least once. Bonus points if you were drunk and you woke up in Harlem.
 
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have a ton of friends who have lived in New York for years, I've spent a lot of time there myself, and I have never seen someone who lives there need daily, if any, map guidance regarding public transit. Is your schedule so all over the place that you literally must reroute every single day? And how did you make it before the iPhone? Honest curiosity.
 
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have a ton of friends who have lived in New York for years, I've spent a lot of time there myself, and I have never seen someone who lives there need daily, if any, map guidance regarding public transit. Is your schedule so all over the place that you literally must reroute every single day? And how did you make it before the iPhone? Honest curiosity.

this.

It is useful when going somewhere out of your routine (and if you haven't lived there for 10+years). For occasional checks, and very useful for notifications of service changes.

I like them to get me the best connections depending on what time I leave.
 
I don't know if this idea was suggested to the OP but couldn't you still use Safari and maps.google.com?

It has been but people dismissed the idea cos you can't have the map auto rotate using the compass and that it wasn't native. Pedantic comments of you ask me as the needed bits are there if you want it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.