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Thoughts on AMD Radeon R9 M370X over the Nvidia 750m?
- Thread starter MartinAppleGuy
- Start date
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Don't they bounce back and forth between AMD and nVidia? Could mean Nvidia + Skylake.....
I'm actually happy with the change -- assuming it really is up to 70% better than the 750M.
It's been several generations since we saw much of a GPU improvement (650 to 750 was sad, really), so even if we only get 40-50% improvement on average, that's still a tremendous gain from where we've been.
Would I have preferred Maxwell nVidia? Possibly. But we don't have that, so it's pointless to pine and whine over it. We got the AMD chip, so let's see how it does once real benchmarks start hitting. AMD is trying to make better chips and turn their fortune around, so I'm open to the change.
Also -- outside of Bootcamp situations, driver release timing is almost pointless to compare, since they're not updated in the same cadence for the Mac as their PC counterparts.
It's been several generations since we saw much of a GPU improvement (650 to 750 was sad, really), so even if we only get 40-50% improvement on average, that's still a tremendous gain from where we've been.
Would I have preferred Maxwell nVidia? Possibly. But we don't have that, so it's pointless to pine and whine over it. We got the AMD chip, so let's see how it does once real benchmarks start hitting. AMD is trying to make better chips and turn their fortune around, so I'm open to the change.
Also -- outside of Bootcamp situations, driver release timing is almost pointless to compare, since they're not updated in the same cadence for the Mac as their PC counterparts.
I really doubt that they will go with Nvidia for Skylake update. There are a lot of possible reasons why they switched to AMD, for one Apple is pretty good at seeing the tide of software change, and most software companies are leaving CUDA and moving more towards Compute due to easy of use and being able to to be used on all Graphics Cards which means for money in the end, and on that note AMD is far better at Compute, and Apple maybe going to leverage that in their up-coming professional software.
I think apple is gonna use amd too in the skylake. They are updating most of their macs with amd. As people mentioned, could be because they got a good deal. So they might stay a while until Nvidia offers them a better deal.
Not too knowledgeable on this subject, but just in general principle(GP) I doubt a proprietary standard that can only be used by one company's GPUs would last long. From benchmarks, even the intel iGPUs destroy even the highest end nVidia dGPUs in openCL. Looks to me like nvidia has invested everything into CUDA. If CUDA is truly dying out or losing traction like you say, nvidia could be deep trouble.
Not on topic, but as a reply to the previous windows lovers:
I had to use windows for years too, I re-formatted devices probably 100 times including my linux usage, windows only recently started to catch up, I'm not a masochist, so I jumped out of the windows wagon as soon as I can and I intend to never turn back, I hope osx lives on
I really love Mac and Time Machine, all my macos devices are as snappy as they always were, I'm not afraid of failures anymore, as I know I can restore my system from one of my time machine backups without issues
Yes, some macbook versions had issues, but comparatively all windows devices have issues
Many people report unknown glitches, graphics failures, electrical issues with random windows setups, just take a glance at any online forum, at least with osx devices, these issues are easily detected and hunted
TL;DR: windows and random hardware combinations are deadly on both os and hardware level - no need to suffer
I had no intention of using my machine for gaming, but I was also able to get basic gaming performance with my mid-2014 too, and the gaming performance was more reliable than any machine that I had before (in terms of temperatures) - even with a 750m - I'm very unfortunate on the hardware level - almost all my previous graphics cards glitched but not the 750m - knocking on wood
I'm not going to upgrade with this new release, but I plan to upgrade to an external retina screened setup when dp1.3 is released with hopefully a more powerful macbook (in terms of graphics) - and the upgrade will most probably be done in under an hour
I also suspect those who defend the idiocracies of windows on a mac forum might have different motives
I agree with the cost issues, with the state of us dollar, the mac devices are certainly wallet biting - but I think they are worthy investments, as we spend more and more time in front of computers, it makes sense to seek the best experience
I had to use windows for years too, I re-formatted devices probably 100 times including my linux usage, windows only recently started to catch up, I'm not a masochist, so I jumped out of the windows wagon as soon as I can and I intend to never turn back, I hope osx lives on
I really love Mac and Time Machine, all my macos devices are as snappy as they always were, I'm not afraid of failures anymore, as I know I can restore my system from one of my time machine backups without issues
Yes, some macbook versions had issues, but comparatively all windows devices have issues
Many people report unknown glitches, graphics failures, electrical issues with random windows setups, just take a glance at any online forum, at least with osx devices, these issues are easily detected and hunted
TL;DR: windows and random hardware combinations are deadly on both os and hardware level - no need to suffer
I had no intention of using my machine for gaming, but I was also able to get basic gaming performance with my mid-2014 too, and the gaming performance was more reliable than any machine that I had before (in terms of temperatures) - even with a 750m - I'm very unfortunate on the hardware level - almost all my previous graphics cards glitched but not the 750m - knocking on wood
I'm not going to upgrade with this new release, but I plan to upgrade to an external retina screened setup when dp1.3 is released with hopefully a more powerful macbook (in terms of graphics) - and the upgrade will most probably be done in under an hour
I also suspect those who defend the idiocracies of windows on a mac forum might have different motives
I agree with the cost issues, with the state of us dollar, the mac devices are certainly wallet biting - but I think they are worthy investments, as we spend more and more time in front of computers, it makes sense to seek the best experience
I bet its not worth for sure...
because it performs slower than 950M and 950 performs slower than 860M
so you are getting a 850M or a bit better as of 2015 with bad driver support which is bad news for gamers.
there are hundreds of laptops that are faster in terms of graphics lots of laptops have 860M and they cost less than half of the macbook
i understand its os x its beautiful design and excellent display but display is no longer an advantage cuz lots of laptops have better displays and os x and design doesn't fool me when internals are weak and apple claims like there is a lot of power inside macbook pro which is true comparing to the newmacbook but comparing to any 1500dollar laptop from other brands its a huge disappointment
i stick to my 750M until apple does these things:
1.put a better display on their macs
2.put a touch a display if possible that would be great
3.move back to nvidia with enough power to run games well(by well i mean you should be able to put it on high at full hd)
4.fix that weird bug that i have with my 2014 model (and 2012 model had a big problem with graphics the frame rate jumped up and down and smc reset. didn't fix it...)
5.they make something really innovative
there is a huge room for improvement and i forgot broad well or skylake
thats just my opinion though
because it performs slower than 950M and 950 performs slower than 860M
so you are getting a 850M or a bit better as of 2015 with bad driver support which is bad news for gamers.
there are hundreds of laptops that are faster in terms of graphics lots of laptops have 860M and they cost less than half of the macbook
i understand its os x its beautiful design and excellent display but display is no longer an advantage cuz lots of laptops have better displays and os x and design doesn't fool me when internals are weak and apple claims like there is a lot of power inside macbook pro which is true comparing to the newmacbook but comparing to any 1500dollar laptop from other brands its a huge disappointment
i stick to my 750M until apple does these things:
1.put a better display on their macs
2.put a touch a display if possible that would be great
3.move back to nvidia with enough power to run games well(by well i mean you should be able to put it on high at full hd)
4.fix that weird bug that i have with my 2014 model (and 2012 model had a big problem with graphics the frame rate jumped up and down and smc reset. didn't fix it...)
5.they make something really innovative
there is a huge room for improvement and i forgot broad well or skylake
thats just my opinion though
While I would love to see that, it's probably not going to happen. First the Mac Pro got AMD, then the retina iMac. Now, a new low end AMD retina iMac plus the high end 15" MBP is AMD. I can't see them switching everything back to Nvidia so quickly.
we have to wait for bench marks or youtube videos
if you have a link about reviews,benchmarks,youtube videos,etc that would be great...
I agree with you on proprietary standards. But Nvidia is certainly not being in trouble because of CUDA's loss in popularity. CUDA and OpenCL are essentially the same thing wrapped in different packages. And modern Maxwell-based Nvidia GPUs are doing perfectly fine with compute and OpenCL.
Intel iGPUs are beating "faster" Nvidia GPUs in some OpenCL benchmarks because of the architectural differences. Intel GPUs are very efficient at heterogeneous computations, while Nvidia GPUs have much higher memory bandwidth. So Intel will win out on complex, hierarchical computation with scattered memory access (e.g. ray tracing), while Nvidia will do better at simpler computations that require more or less uniform access to large amount of RAM (e.g. image filter application).
Just buy a gaming laptop already. What are you even doing on Apple forums? There are other manufacturers who seem to meet your criteria just fine. A MacBook Pro has a very different purpose.
Anyway, there is some chance that m370x ends up just as fast as 950m. Leaks suggest that AMD has developed a new chip that is just as power-efficient as Maxwell. If this new GPU is based on that chip, we might get very decent performer on our hands.
Reasonable expectations..
The Macbook Pro has never been advertised as a gaming laptop.
It´s the MacBook _Pro_ as in "for professional users running professional work related programs" This new GPU works better in both Adobe CC apps and FCPX, and that´s the important thing. Both to Apple and to the targeted audience.
Lenovo, HP and Dell all sell "pro"-laptops in the 5000 category that all suck for gaming. Amazing for CAD, 3D rendering, Video editing and so on.
If you want a moster gaming GPU and a touchscreen there are literally 100+ machines to chose from in the windows-camp. Just pick one.
The "MacBook Game" has never existed and probably never will..
The Macbook Pro has never been advertised as a gaming laptop.
It´s the MacBook _Pro_ as in "for professional users running professional work related programs" This new GPU works better in both Adobe CC apps and FCPX, and that´s the important thing. Both to Apple and to the targeted audience.
Lenovo, HP and Dell all sell "pro"-laptops in the 5000 category that all suck for gaming. Amazing for CAD, 3D rendering, Video editing and so on.
If you want a moster gaming GPU and a touchscreen there are literally 100+ machines to chose from in the windows-camp. Just pick one.
The "MacBook Game" has never existed and probably never will..
I've been reading this thread since it started and I'm kinda surprised with all the talk. Fist off let's be honest, no one is going to know what this GPU can do till the benchmarks come in. However, if there's one thing Apple is not is their not a liar, meaning if they say 80% better it will be at least 70% to the full 80%.
Second is another reflection of honesty. While yes there are a growing number of games for Mac coming out all he time the MBP is not a gaming machine. It's a skillfully balanced creation between design, weight, tempature management and battery life. Meaning that they picked this GPU because of how cool it can run in this limited space combined with how much power it takes to run it. Giving you the best balanced laptop you can buy.
Having said that this MBP will run GTA V, The Witcher 3 and anything els at decent settings. Heck i can run GTA V on my laptop that only has Intel 4200, it may be at the lowest setting but with this GPU you'll game fine. And if you really need a monster laptop that is 2 inches thick, 10 pounds and only 45 min of battery life so you have to game on a charger, get something els or do what I did and build a gaming rig for your games and use this MBP for EVERYTHING else plus on the go gaming.
Lastly, sure Skylake will be fast but is it really going to be that much better from this one? CPUs have not had a huge since jump in years. Even going from the 2011mbp to this is not huge (CPU wise) if you put in an ssd. And yes picking the GPU version is going to be noticeably better for several things as some people have wondered. And no don't worry about it breaking AppleCare is awesome and apple does the best they can to make solid machines. Apple laptops also hold their value better than any outer computer. Shops are still asking 600 for the core 2 duo mbp. So if you buy this you won't lose out much if you do decide to sell and get the next version.
I don't know if any of this helps. But I'm buying my 2015 MBP tomorrow
Second is another reflection of honesty. While yes there are a growing number of games for Mac coming out all he time the MBP is not a gaming machine. It's a skillfully balanced creation between design, weight, tempature management and battery life. Meaning that they picked this GPU because of how cool it can run in this limited space combined with how much power it takes to run it. Giving you the best balanced laptop you can buy.
Having said that this MBP will run GTA V, The Witcher 3 and anything els at decent settings. Heck i can run GTA V on my laptop that only has Intel 4200, it may be at the lowest setting but with this GPU you'll game fine. And if you really need a monster laptop that is 2 inches thick, 10 pounds and only 45 min of battery life so you have to game on a charger, get something els or do what I did and build a gaming rig for your games and use this MBP for EVERYTHING else plus on the go gaming.
Lastly, sure Skylake will be fast but is it really going to be that much better from this one? CPUs have not had a huge since jump in years. Even going from the 2011mbp to this is not huge (CPU wise) if you put in an ssd. And yes picking the GPU version is going to be noticeably better for several things as some people have wondered. And no don't worry about it breaking AppleCare is awesome and apple does the best they can to make solid machines. Apple laptops also hold their value better than any outer computer. Shops are still asking 600 for the core 2 duo mbp. So if you buy this you won't lose out much if you do decide to sell and get the next version.
I don't know if any of this helps. But I'm buying my 2015 MBP tomorrow
I've been reading this thread since it started and I'm kinda surprised with all the talk. Fist off let's be honest, no one is going to know what this GPU can do till the benchmarks come in. However, if there's one thing Apple is not is their not a liar, meaning if they say 80% better it will be at least 70% to the full 80%.
Second is another reflection of honesty. While yes there are a growing number of games for Mac coming out all he time the MBP is not a gaming machine. It's a skillfully balanced creation between design, weight, tempature management and battery life. Meaning that they picked this GPU because of how cool it can run in this limited space combined with how much power it takes to run it. Giving you the best balanced laptop you can buy.
Having said that this MBP will run GTA V, The Witcher 3 and anything els at decent settings. Heck i can run GTA V on my laptop that only has Intel 4200, it may be at the lowest setting but with this GPU you'll game fine. And if you really need a monster laptop that is 2 inches thick, 10 pounds and only 45 min of battery life so you have to game on a charger, get something els or do what I did and build a gaming rig for your games and use this MBP for EVERYTHING else plus on the go gaming.
Lastly, sure Skylake will be fast but is it really going to be that much better from this one? CPUs have not had a huge since jump in years. Even going from the 2011mbp to this is not huge (CPU wise) if you put in an ssd. And yes picking the GPU version is going to be noticeably better for several things as some people have wondered. And no don't worry about it breaking AppleCare is awesome and apple does the best they can to make solid machines. Apple laptops also hold their value better than any outer computer. Shops are still asking 600 for the core 2 duo mbp. So if you buy this you won't lose out much if you do decide to sell and get the next version.
I don't know if any of this helps. But I'm buying my 2015 MBP tomorrow
Please don't say you are buying 2015 "13-inch" MBP, jk lol Everyone will love to see the result so please report here if you have time.
That's an extensive list, I don't see all those things happening any time soon so you may be stuck with your current laptop for a while. Just some counter points for you to consider:-
1. Whilst Mac displays don't come top in every measurable metric they are consistently near the top, overall they are class leading. Anandtech normally covers them in depth and they come up pretty well. Whilst you could argue Apple could start to develop it's own displays this is probably unlikely so they rely on technological advancements by others.
2. I don't think a use case has ever been made for this, unless your device is a hybrid like a Surface which can be used sans keyboard. On a standard laptop or desktop the screen is further away from your eyes and hand positions (resting on mouse, keyboard or trackpad). The greater movement is unnatural. And you will leave some nasty finger prints.
3. These are commercial decisions, they will probably move back to Nvidia eventually so you can probably bide your time on this one and you will get your wish. I'm not sure what your definition of 'full HD' is, but if it's 1080p then current models can do this fairly well.
4. Fair enough but this is not present for the majority of people. It sounds like a software bug.
5. This is a bit of woolly statement. Innovation for different people means different things, what do you want to see (other than the above which I have responded to)? Real innovation is rare, almost all manufacturers build on what has gone before in an evolutionary manner.
I've been reading this thread since it started and I'm kinda surprised with all the talk. Fist off let's be honest, no one is going to know what this GPU can do till the benchmarks come in. However, if there's one thing Apple is not is their not a liar, meaning if they say 80% better it will be at least 70% to the full 80%.
Second is another reflection of honesty. While yes there are a growing number of games for Mac coming out all he time the MBP is not a gaming machine. It's a skillfully balanced creation between design, weight, tempature management and battery life. Meaning that they picked this GPU because of how cool it can run in this limited space combined with how much power it takes to run it. Giving you the best balanced laptop you can buy.
Having said that this MBP will run GTA V, The Witcher 3 and anything els at decent settings. Heck i can run GTA V on my laptop that only has Intel 4200, it may be at the lowest setting but with this GPU you'll game fine. And if you really need a monster laptop that is 2 inches thick, 10 pounds and only 45 min of battery life so you have to game on a charger, get something els or do what I did and build a gaming rig for your games and use this MBP for EVERYTHING else plus on the go gaming.
Lastly, sure Skylake will be fast but is it really going to be that much better from this one? CPUs have not had a huge since jump in years. Even going from the 2011mbp to this is not huge (CPU wise) if you put in an ssd. And yes picking the GPU version is going to be noticeably better for several things as some people have wondered. And no don't worry about it breaking AppleCare is awesome and apple does the best they can to make solid machines. Apple laptops also hold their value better than any outer computer. Shops are still asking 600 for the core 2 duo mbp. So if you buy this you won't lose out much if you do decide to sell and get the next version.
I don't know if any of this helps. But I'm buying my 2015 MBP tomorrow
I agree, I do a lot of gaming on mine and for me it's perfect. I don't want a monster gaming 'laptop' or to build a non portable rig. I want a balance of style, portability, performance etc. With the rMBP I get the best of both worlds.
I just ordered the new one and should be here next week, so I'm hoping that the M370X will be worth it.
I've been using various Macbook Pros with dGPUs for a number of years and I've never had an issue.
Just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean it will ALWAYS happen.
I'm in the same boat man. So freaking dissapointing they went to several years old tech (GCN) instead of using new way more energy efficient Maxwell. Looks like they're ok with overheating, noisy and throttling Retina iMac and want to expand this 'amazing' user experience further to Macbook. Well done, Apple. Well done.
I think you should wait for benchmarks and tests with this opinion. There has been some leaks suggesting that new AMD chips are just as power-efficient as Maxwell.
If Apple puts this mysterious M370x into the MBP, it means that its TDP is around 40W at best. And if Apple's benchmarks data are to be trusted, the performance increase is more or less consistent with what 850M/950M can do over 750M.
Alright they should've put more graphical power seriously ...
MacBooks have weak graphics comparing to most laptops even considering its purpose apple should've put a better graphic card
And I'm here to tell you that dual graphic macs suck both my 2012 and mid 2014 pros had graphical problems ...
My 2014rmbp crashed while I was watching a movie and shut down
At least they shouldn't fail like that
Any way that's just my opinion
Having had dGPU problems myself, I would suggest anyone that buys a MBP with a dGPU buy AppleCare. Major hassle to pay for those things out of pocket.
Apple used AMD in the 2011 MBPs, having previously used Nvidia and then switched right back to Nvidia.
Apple used AMD in the 2011 MBPs, having previously used Nvidia and then switched right back to Nvidia.
750M has a TDP of 50W, not 40W. But I agree I feel it's probably on par with a 950M, just have to wait and see.
Some info now available
This review claims leaked benchmarks suggest that the M370x is about the same performance as the M295x found in the 5k iMac, that seems like a pretty powerful mobile dGPU to me....
http://wwwwww.dailytech.com/Apple+F...ouch+5K+iMac+Gets+Price+Cut/article37358c.htm
Info found here apparently
http://wccftech.com/amd-strato-xt-benchmarks-radeon-mobility-r9-m300-series/
This review claims leaked benchmarks suggest that the M370x is about the same performance as the M295x found in the 5k iMac, that seems like a pretty powerful mobile dGPU to me....
http://wwwwww.dailytech.com/Apple+F...ouch+5K+iMac+Gets+Price+Cut/article37358c.htm
Info found here apparently
http://wccftech.com/amd-strato-xt-benchmarks-radeon-mobility-r9-m300-series/
Yeah, people have been linking these here and there. One problem I have with it is that the links also say that Strato is a 4GB GPU. Looking at the m370x, it would make sense for it to be the Litho XT. For which no benchmarks were leaked. And the further speculation of Litho XT being faster then Strato XT, well, thats just speculation
I think this one is quite interesting in the context: http://wccftech.com/xfx-radeon-r9-3...-feature-2-gb-gddr5-vram-launches-april-2015/ (I have also linked it earlier). It suggests that AMD has caught up with Maxwell in terms of energy-efficiency. And it would make some sense for m370x to be 'half' of the Trinidad chip.
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Yeah, people have been linking these here and there. One problem I have with it is that the links also say that Strato is a 4GB GPU. Looking at the m370x, it would make sense for it to be the Litho XT. For which no benchmarks were leaked. And the further speculation of Litho XT being faster then Strato XT, well, thats just speculation
I think this one is quite interesting in the context: http://wccftech.com/xfx-radeon-r9-3...-feature-2-gb-gddr5-vram-launches-april-2015/ (I have also linked it earlier). It suggests that AMD has caught up with Maxwell in terms of energy-efficiency. And it would make some sense for m370x to be 'half' of the Trinidad chip.
While I would be really excited for the MBP to get a dGPU that good, I doubt that this m370x is going to be as fast a 295x at half the wattage. Also, that chip would be 4x as fast a 750m, atleast in benchmarks. 750m pulls about 1500-1800 in Firestrike, and the 295x is close to 7000.
Its interesting though, this is definitely a custom chip that ATI has made specifically for Apple as they did with the m295x for the 5k iMac. We won't know what this chip is all about until someone gets their hands on one and starts benchmarking.
If it can come close a 950m, I'll probably upgrade.