Thoughts on difficult family situation?

[mobilehaathi]

Race Realism? What's that? Did I miss something? I'm biracial, actually probably multi-racial. Let's get that cleared up right away so I can exit myself if I'm not welcome.

I recommend looking through some of his posts.

An incomplete post history:

We call it progress when more and more minorities get high paying jobs in America, but what kind of progress is that exactly? It is not something that the minorities deserved from the beginning, but rather something that the Western cultures have graciously decided they should have a right to. Because without the West, those jobs, and the wealth that the minorities want a share of, wouldn't exist.

But it was almost entirely white men of the Western world who invented everything.

I respect other cultures. I respect their choice to adopt everything that the West invented.... which is what they seem to be doing. But even if they didn't, I would respect their choice.

I don't want to get in their way. All I'm saying is that I like my people and my culture the most, and I'm not asking for more than 10% of the worlds land for my culture (Europe and America).

I would rather Europe stays white. And I would be 100% with an African petition to keep Africa black, if that's what they wanted.

I'm sorry.. but didn't we rise to #1 in the world before there was much race mixing in the professional world in America? America was 90% white as late as 1965. And we've been on the decline since the 1960s...

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Yes, that is what's happening now. And everybody is moving to the Western countries. Everyone seems to prefer them.

So, the best culture loses itself because it gets overrun with everybody who wants a piece of it... okay, that's the way of things. I just wish there was a way to preserve it to some degree..

What I'm trying to say is, the only difference between me and a KKK member may be that I asked the questions that I asked and was open to taking your answers seriously.

Yes, major mistakes were made with immigration.

And the pendulum has already swung way too far in the other direction.

Whites were on board with equal treatment of everyone in their societies.

They did not sign on for reduced standards for blacks, for the restriction of free speech in regards to black pathology, for the watering down of everything in society to allow blacks to appear more capable than they are, for constantly being blamed for black failure, for forced busing, for the U.S. department of justice suing any company that doesn't have black employees (qualified or not), for having to constantly walk on egg shells and have the threat of job termination over their head every day if they dare to say anything that even mildly offends blacks, for constantly being told that they are irredeemable racists, that they don't have the right to self defense against black attackers, etc, etc, etc.

We were happy to treat everybody equally.

What happened was very different. And it is too late for apologies from the liberal elite.

Well, in many cases we haven't stunted it. For example, the tech industry doesn't do too much diversity hiring, it's mostly qualification based hiring. The resulting racial demographics of the tech industry are not surprising.

But at every level of society there is an attempt at stunting coming mostly from the Federal Government and the liberal media. Academia gets stunted when standards are lowered, when unqualified blacks are admitted, etc. There are unqualified black teachers everywhere, and if you point this out it's not because you want good teachers for your children, it's because you are a racist.

It's common for companies to ban background checks, credit checks, etc if using them disproportionally "affects" blacks. The government forced banks to give out affirmative action loans, and then blamed them when the housing crisis happened. These are just a few issues off the top of my head, and I'm typing on my phone, fyi.

I meant whites in the 1960s were happy to treat everyone equally, that's why a white government passed all those laws. To some whites at the time it was not what they wanted, that's true, but by and large white America felt that everyone deserves equal Treatment.

In regards to the school debate.. why do you think failing schools are failing?

Let me sum it up for you.

Intelligent people run good schools.

Stupid people run bad schools.

The children in the first schools do well because they are intelligent because their parents are intelligent, and the schools happen to be functioning well too because everything is run by intelligent people. If the schools in the suburbs all got shut down, all the children who attended them would still become educated and graduate college, etc.

Failing children are failing because their parents are stupid, and their community logically runs failing schools. The performance of the school is just a byproduct of the intelligence of the community and the people running it. You can't take stupid kids and transplant them to a "good school" and expect anything to change. That "good school" only looks the way it does because it's full of intelligent children and run by intelligent adults.

Institutions don't shape people's intelligence. It's the other way around.

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It's like if I made a really good cake, and someone else made a really bad cake, and they said "It's not fair! Of course you're going to be a better baker than me, look at the great cake 'they' gave you!"

You have a black president, and before that you had a black secretary of state. Both of them were definitely failures .

You tell me what percentage of their DNA is of European ancestry.

And from this (https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...front-of-his-car.1723110/page-5#post-18971781) thread, which won't let me quote from it:

Why are the white areas of the world peaceful, no matter what kind of politics are dominant?

Why are black areas violent no matter where they are, no matter what language they speak, what country they live in, or how much money they have?

Why do white children from poor homes get better SAT scores than black children from rich homes?

Why do blacks score significantly lower on IQ tests than people of other races?

If we're not willing to ask these questions and to search for answers, we're doing nobody a favor.

Well whites around the world changed drastically and began unifying their countries and engaging in the historically unprecedented phenomenon of letting millions and millions of foreigners into their countries in the post-WWII years.

Perhaps we have yet to learn something about how very quickly evolution can happen.

First of all, skin color and race are not the same thing. White people are not more peaceful because their skin is lighter. They're more peaceful because they have greater impulse control, higher IQs, and a greater ability to delay gratification.

Whether or not the cause is genetic, these are facts. For whatever reason, these race differences exist. And despite decades of tremendous effort and billions of dollars, these race differences don't seem to go away.

It's self-evident to anybody willing to objectively observe reality, that blacks are incapable of sustaining a peaceful, advanced civilization on their own. They're not genetically adapted to it. They have an average IQ of 70 in sub-saharan Africa, and an average IQ of 85 here in America where the average black is about 50% white (whites have an average IQ of 100). Beautiful how consistent it is isn't it?

Barack Obama's mother is a white woman. His mother is a 100% white woman. He's not black. He's mixed. And I'm sure he has a high IQ. The way the IQ distribution plays out between the black and white populations within the United States, there will be about 30 ultra-high IQ white individuals for every one ultra-high IQ black one. This is why fields requiring advanced mental capabilities are dominated by whites. (And Asians now, whose average IQ is six points higher than whites). But there are those occasional high IQ blacks, they aren't nonexistent.

But keep in mind that that's in America, where the average black IQ is 15 points higher than it is in Africa due to the heavy admixture with white genes. You'd be hard pressed to find even one ultra-high IQ "black" individual who isn't 40% or 50% white.

Put an end to all race-based programs, welfare, scholarships, etc.

Stop trying to achieve equal outcomes between races.

Most importantly, stop blaming black and Hispanic underperformance on white racism. There is no white racism. There is only billions of white taxpayer dollars desperately trying every measure conceivable to lift these people up, and it's proving to be an impossible task.

Maintain a race-realist immigration policy so that high-IQ individuals remain a majority in the country, so that we don't become a third world country. So far, wherever we've imported third-world minds, those areas begin to look like third world countries.

As far as people already here, simply treat everyone equally. Eliminate the media bias so that Americans know how dangerous black people are. Treat blacks and whites the same for the same crimes, the same grades, the same quality resume, etc.

Just stop assuming that an equivalent environment can erase the gap.

I'm sorry to offend you. :roll eyes:

Have you seriously never looked at the crime disparities between blacks and whites in America?

Are you actually unaware that black-on-white crime outnumbers white-on-black crime by many multitudes?

This is not about racism, it's about reality.

And naturally, if you looked as Asians or Jews as a group in America, you'd find an even lower crime rate there, again proportionate to the difference in IQ. IQ seems to fairly consistently predict most patterns of success or failure. The higher the IQ, the less crime, the higher grades, the more degrees, the smaller prison population, and the higher the income the group has.

To respond to some of the other things people have said since the last time I posted:

Yes, Asians and Jews have higher IQs than whites. I am hardly even white myself, and I'm certainly not a white supremacist. I'm a race realist.

With that being said, I do identify with European culture, and I personally like white people and white culture the best. White culture is definitely served very well by Jews though, no doubt, and Asians are very welcome when they assimilate fully. They have the brain to tow their own in a white society without the need to lower any standards like we do for other racial groups.

Now, about the low black IQ and violence... perhaps it's possible for a population to be of low IQ but to also be peaceful, but I haven't seen it anywhere yet. Wherever there are genes from sub-saharan Africa in the world, you'll find an increased amount of violence and tendency towards criminal behavior. Naturally in an indigenous tribe it may appear like they can be wonderful, peaceful people, but on average, when you take them into an advanced society whose advancements were built upon mental capabilities that they don't have, you will observe that natural underperformance and inability to substitute for one of the people who was able to build the civilization.

People like to make the excuse of poverty and past subjugation and oppression. Have any of you studied poor black Americans? Have any of you taken a good look at the way they are and asked yourself whether a lack of money or oppression in the past is actually an excuse for the way they're being? Here's a little list of things that poor blacks in America today could be doing, with no additional money or resources, that would show us that in response to the billions of dollars we put into programs to help them, that they're doing Something on their end to try to join our society:

1. Put trash in trash cans. Last I checked this doesn't take a great deal of money to do.

2. Instill in their children a value for learning and education. Take them to the library. Check out some books.

3. Maintain more two parent households, and maintain a healthy sense of family.

4. Stop ignoring their children. Stop letting 10 year olds hang out on the street corner with sagging pants after (or during) school.

The list goes on and on. Have you ever taken a moment to ask WHY these people appear to be engaging in such catastrophically unintelligent behavior, when doing otherwise does not require any money or resources that they lack? Imagine if the black ghettos in America were Jewish. Just imagine that. Take a look at the Jewish ghettos in Europe during World War II. The most horrid circumstances did not strip from the Jewish people their humanity, their intelligence, or anything else that makes them successful when given equal opportunity. One does not need to have wealth or power in order to be intelligent, to run a healthy, secure family, and to take measures to ensure that your children become educated. When it comes to black America, society as a whole has collectively taken this bizarre leap of faith that somehow, when it comes to people with dark skin, less-than-ideal external circumstances can completely destroy their ability to behave intelligently or responsibly. This is nonsense.

There is simply no excuse for the way they are. High-IQ groups with the same history would now be skyrocketing into positions of success when given the opportunities that they have.

And just to nail home the crime disparity between the groups, places like Booneville hardly have any violent crime. When you look between the black and white/asian/Jewish populations, and control for income and wealth differences, you'll still find much more violence in the black areas.

Okay there is more, but I have to go.

 

[A.Goldberg]

@mobilehaathi, truely disgusting posts, I'm in fact speechless. I think his ethnocentrism only highlights his egocentrism and narcissism, and only further supports his need for professional help. Regardless of his perspective on the world, I can only hope he gets the help he needs.

I guess from his prospective, as a Jew I shouldn't be wasting my time with (I assume) someone of a race lf lesser average intelligence... but I believe in countering hatred with compassion.

Needless to say, I think the OP has in insatiable need for attention. I have this sense then in thoughtfully responding to his messages we are only feeding into his lust for attention. I think we have all clearly offered what needs to change to save his marraige and suggested professional help.

 

[StephenCampbell]

I don't see how all those posts are relevant, but I stand by them 100%. I am about 75% Ashkenazi Jewish, 10% Middle Eastern, and the rest is a little Greek/Italian, and minuscule traces of central Asian, North African, etc.

I hold no personal biases against any individual based on their race.

 

[mscriv]

@mobilehaathi, I'm not sure I understand why you felt the need to post all of those quotes, which I presume are from PRSI, in this thread? I get that you are trying to give us context as to previous statements that the OP has made, but @Scepticalscribe has already referenced his posting history on multiple occasions for anyone who is interested in looking that up. Quoting those posts is likely going to result in the derailment of this thread, moderation, or possibly closure. Is that what you want? What are you hoping to accomplish?

On another note, I saw this music video recently and it reminded me of this thread.

[doublepost=1466096064][/doublepost]

I don't see how all those posts are relevant...

@StephenCampbell, I suggest you not engage in this unless you want this thread to be closed or moved to PRSI. If a forum member wants to engage you in discussing topics that are not relevant to this thread then they can either PM you or post in those specific threads.

 

[mobilehaathi]

@mobilehaathi, I'm not sure I understand why you felt the need to post all of those quotes, which I presume are from PRSI, in this thread? I get that you are trying to give us context as to previous statements that the OP has made, but @Scepticalscribe has already referenced his posting history on multiple occasions for anyone who is interested in looking that up. Quoting those posts is likely going to result in the derailment of this thread, moderation, or possibly closure. Is that what you want? What are you hoping to accomplish?

On another note, I saw this music video recently and it reminded me of this thread.

[doublepost=1466096064][/doublepost]
@StephenCampbell, I suggest you not engage in this unless you want this thread to be closed or moved to PRSI. If a forum member wants to engage you in discussing topics that are not relevant to this thread then they can either PM you or post in those specific threads.

She asked for clarification, and I suggested maybe some of his other issues were the result of his sick mother. No need to go off on tangents, but context is important. I can put all that behind a spoiler if you prefer.

Incidentally I tried to PM her but she isn't accepting them.
[doublepost=1466096309][/doublepost]

I don't see how all those posts are relevant, but I stand by them 100%. I am about 75% Ashkenazi Jewish, 10% Middle Eastern, and the rest is a little Greek/Italian, and minuscule traces of central Asian, North African, etc.

I hold no personal biases against any individual based on their race.

Indeed, your statements speak for themselves. Maybe you should take a broader look at the sort of damage your mother may have done to you.

 

[A.Goldberg]

You should have said we were dealing with a Jewish mother! (A joke, albeit inopportune given the direction of this thread).

Since that you listed Stormfront as your single, "Best, Most Compelling & Intellectually-Stimulating Site to Read Every Day", it's evident this site has had an impact on your opinions, or reinforced them. As someone who is supposedly primarily Jewish, and tends to indulge in the Stormfront nonsense, is it possible you have some self loathing?

I don't want to turn turn this into a PRSI debate. Just something to think about.

 

[mscriv]

She asked for clarification, and I suggested maybe some of his other issues were the result of his sick mother. No need to go off on tangents, but context is important. I can put all that behind a spoiler if you prefer.

Incidentally I tried to PM her but she isn't accepting them.
[doublepost=1466096309][/doublepost]

I appreciate context, in fact, I think it is foundationally important. And yes, what you say is true. We are all shaped by our pasts and our primary relationships in upbringing. Our worldviews have a great deal to do with our family of origin, culture, etc. and that is a predominant theme in this thread. With that being said, can you see how you could have made that point without bringing in quotes that are not truly relevant to this topic as a whole?

It's just my opinion, but if you want to engage the OP on those other topics then I would suggest doing so in those threads. You could even reference this thread when you do so to inquire as to the nature of those feelings and opinions. I think we all know that calling into question the OP's feelings about PRSI related matters is not serving any purpose in this thread.

I've only posted in this discussion sparingly, but I have kept up and I see that many are frustrated, critical, and possibly even antagonistic toward the OP. That being said, I do think that people sometimes reach out for help or support in places where they feel comfortable. I'm glad that the OP is at least making some steps and talking about these struggles.

In fact, @StephenCampbell, I would encourage you to show this thread to your therapist and let him/her read it. I think it would give more information and context that could prove helpful.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@mobilehaathi, I'm not sure I understand why you felt the need to post all of those quotes, which I presume are from PRSI, in this thread? I get that you are trying to give us context as to previous statements that the OP has made, but @Scepticalscribe has already referenced his posting history on multiple occasions for anyone who is interested in looking that up. Quoting those posts is likely going to result in the derailment of this thread, moderation, or possibly closure. Is that what you want? Is there a constructive way that you want to engage in the discussion that is relevant to this thread specifically or are you just trying to influence how others are interacting with the OP?

On another note, I saw this music video recently and it reminded me of this thread.

[doublepost=1466096064][/doublepost]
@StephenCampbell, I suggest you not engage in this unless you want this thread to be closed or moved to PRSI. If a forum member wants to engage you in discussing topics that are not relevant to this thread then they can either PM you or post in those specific threads.

To be honest, my references to his previous posting history deliberately steered clear of the horrible political & racist stuff, but were mentioned by me because the OP started at least three threads where he discussed relationships, principally the relationship that he had (and terminated, and then re-started) with the lady who is now his wife.

For understanding and placing some of this in context, and getting some sense of attitudes - not least the OP's attitudes towards women - these threads were quite instructive, and I think it relevant to reference them, not least because of the position that the OP finds himself in now when he discusses his marriage with an online audience.

 

[5105973]

Oh, thank you for the clarification @mobilehaathi. I'm sorry, I had disabled PMs due to questionable communication (possible trolling) from a very, uh, eccentric, forum member who appears to have disappeared.

I requested clarification because in the interest of full disclosure, I'm biracial and multi-ethnic and if Stephen has race based views on the intelligence of non-whites, my efforts at helping are a waste of time for me to write and him to read if he is going to assume I'm inferior and disregard them anyway.

I am quite familiar with Stormfront. I happened upon it by accident once when doing a Google search on iris pigmentation and whoa, was that falling down the rabbit hole! They don't just hold strong views on races there but also on women's roles, so that helps me understand a little better why Stephen has challenges dealing with his wife's boundaries and autonomy if he is under the influence of their views.

It was quite fascinating. But there was an appalling lack of logic and reason in so much of their discourse that it exhausted my mind to lurk there for very long. The hate there didn't bother me because hey, guess what I grew up with? Those sentiments were once openly expressed and with great frequency and I'm quite blasé as a result, as long as those views don't end up translating into public policy or a punch to my nose, of course.

Eh, one reason I became a very impressive street fighter back in the day was because white boys who normally wouldn't hit girls didn't consider me a human female but a racial abomination. Thankfully they weren't the majority even back then. I have always found quality people of all colors who would watch my back.

And Stephen, you once asked me exactly the nature of my difficulties with my paternal grandmother. Well, she was a blonde haired blue eyed German white supremacist, more or less, who had a hell of a hard time accepting me as I was, but she couldn't help loving me anyway. Fortunately she was not of a degree so severe we couldn't soften her up a bit. She had to live to be nearly 100, but at the end she admitted she was extremely wrong to harbor the racism she once held and she loved and accepted me, my mom and all of her great grandchildren without reservation.

So I hope you find it in your heart to pay heed to the epiphany of a 100 year old woman who saw and witnessed and learned a lot of hard lessons in life. It's not about the color of our skin but the content of our character and our choices and our determination to contribute something positive to this world. You can find people of all varieties attempting to do that very thing if you open your eyes and your mind.

The problems you speak of about the black community are generalities that I have seen for years coming true in the white community, too. It's now less about race and more about regional subcultures and socioeconomic challenges and frankly, level of involvement in drugs. Drug abuse and alcohol abuse degrade and debase all peoples, regardless of race or class.

Also please keep in mind that history is largely what the people in power say it is. Over the years I've been quite surprised to learn exactly how much women and people of color have actually contributed to society as a whole. Alas, I know there are very cultivated sounding people on Stormfront who likely have convinced you that these are all p.c. lies. And sometimes political correctness has obscured historical facts in a way that takes away from whites, and that can play in the favor of white nationalistic views, I admit. For example, it has been largely been suppressed and downplayed that Irish people were kept in conditions little better than the slavery endured by African slaves. That is as wrong as any attempt to downplay the truths about the good done by women and minorities.

An open, logical, reasonable, questing mind thirsting for the truth and not indoctrination will serve anyone well, and I urge you to cultivate that.

I'm not here to attempt to undo that kind of indoctrination, though. I can only hold myself to my highest standard of conduct and hope that makes some sort of positive impression to counter the stereotyping you've embraced.

So anyway, Stephen, I bear you no hard feelings or ill will and I certainly enjoyed trying to help you. I learned a lot in this thread so I don't count my time here wasted for myself personally. However, I am what I am and if that lessens my contributions in your eyes, please let me know.

 

[mobilehaathi]

I appreciate context, in fact, I think it is foundationally important. And yes, what you say is true. We are all shaped by our pasts and our primary relationships in upbringing. Our worldviews have a great deal to do with our family of origin, culture, etc. and that is a predominant theme in this thread. With that being said, can you see how you could have made that point without bringing in quotes that are not truly relevant to this topic as a whole?

It's just my opinion, but if you want to engage the OP on those other topics then I would suggest doing so in those threads. You could even reference this thread when you do so to inquire as to the nature of those feelings and opinions. I think we all know that calling into question the OP's feelings about PRSI related matters is not serving any purpose in this thread.

I've only posted in this discussion sparingly, but I have kept up and I see that many are frustrated, critical, and possibly even antagonistic toward the OP. That being said, I do think that people sometimes reach out for help or support in places where they feel comfortable. I'm glad that the OP is at least making some steps and talking about these struggles.

In fact, @StephenCampbell, I would encourage you to show this thread to your therapist and let him/her read it. I think it would give more information and context that could prove helpful.

I appreciate your point here, but I didn't want to post anything that could be construed as a personal attack. I find that people's own words about themselves can be more powerful than a summary written by a third party. It removes a layer of complication and distraction.

 

[StephenCampbell]

As I said, I stand by all those posts 100%, and if you read them you find nothing indicating I would have a personal bias against any individual based on their race.

I am not a racist. I am a race realist, someone who acknowledges the scientific, biological differences between racial groups in terms of temperament, intelligence, etc.

It has nothing to do with personal prejudice, discrimination, etc. My views of any person never have anything to do with their race.

And FYI, I stopped reading Stormfront a long time ago. The community at American Renaissance spoke to me much more, as they are not anti-Semitic, and they are more practical and eloquent, as opposed to the crass neo-nazis at Stormfront.

Also, my wife shares all my views on these subjects. So how about we move on from this?

 

[5105973]

As I said, I stand by all those posts 100%, and if you read them you find nothing indicating I would have a personal bias against any individual based on their race.

I am not a racist. I am a race realist, someone who acknowledges the scientific, biological differences between racial groups in terms of temperament, intelligence, etc.

It has nothing to do with personal prejudice, discrimination, etc. My views of any person never have anything to do with their race.

Also, my wife shares all my views on these subjects. So how about we move on from this?

Er, uh...um...okay well I'm now officially confused by the inherent contradictions I see here. Is anyone else? That's a rhetorical question. I agree...no sense derailing the thread. Moving right along....

Did you ever notice you contradict yourself a LOT...aside from the little detour we just took about your views on race or uh, race realism--which frankly sounds like doublespeak to me, sorry.

It's like you disconnect very dramatically from previous views or statements when they conflict with whatever narrative you're promoting at any given moment. I suppose your therapist is equipped to deal with that. But doesn't that ever confuse you? Your wife? Chicken farmers in Des Moines?

 

[mscriv]

I appreciate your point here, but I didn't want to post anything that could be construed as a personal attack. I find that people's own words about themselves can be more powerful than a summary written by a third party. It removes a layer of complication and distraction.

I understand, and certainly wasn't trying to pick a fight. I just wanted to make sure we weren't getting off track or that there wasn't a personal attack in play. It's certainly appropriate to ask contextual questions, but I would encourage all of us, myself included, to make sure that those questions are directly tied to the topic at hand and carrying us further down that road toward understanding. For example, @GrumpyMom has done an excellent job at such in the post just before this one.

I could see some interpreting the video I posted earlier as an "attack", but that was not my intention. It was more of an attempt at some lightheartedness to help us all as we deal with such a heavy topic. Additionally, this thread is on my mind so when I saw that video it was the first thing that popped into my head.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

As I said, I stand by all those posts 100%, and if you read them you find nothing indicating I would have a personal bias against any individual based on their race.

I am not a racist. I am a race realist, someone who acknowledges the scientific, biological differences between racial groups in terms of temperament, intelligence, etc.

It has nothing to do with personal prejudice, discrimination, etc. My views of any person never have anything to do with their race.

And FYI, I stopped reading Stormfront a long time ago. The community at American Renaissance spoke to me much more, as they are not anti-Semitic, and they are more practical and eloquent, as opposed to the crass neo-nazis at Stormfront.

Also, my wife shares all my views on these subjects. So how about we move on from this?

Does your wife share your views on the role of women, and your clearly marked preference for women to have permeable - or preferably non-existent - boundaries in their interactions with you, lest such boundaries inconvenience you or distract you from your contemplation of yourself?

And no: 'Moving on' is not an option when each and every attempt to offer help or tender advice to you is blithely ignored, or is derailed by you back to an in-depth examination of the endlessly fascinating spectacle you and your obsessions and narcissism present to yourself.

As @mobilehaathi - quoted below - puts it:

I find that people's own words about themselves can be more powerful than a summary written by a third party. It removes a layer of complication and distraction.

Moreover, both the tone - and the statement - 'so how about we love on from this'? strike me as rather controlling, which is something that I suspect presents as a feature in your own life, very possibly in your relationship with your wife, and is something I would argue that you may have learned from your parents.

Anyway, I will now repeat a question I asked quite some time ago, which was not answered, and it is this: Is there a significant social class difference between your wife and yourself?

 

[StephenCampbell]

No social class difference between us. Both upper-middle-class, though her upbringing was very conventional and mine had homeschooling and other non-mainstream features to it.
[doublepost=1466115857][/doublepost]

Er, uh...um...okay well I'm now officially confused by the inherent contradictions I see here. Is anyone else? That's a rhetorical question. I agree...no sense derailing the thread. Moving right along....

Did you ever notice you contradict yourself a LOT...aside from the little detour we just took about your views on race or uh, race realism--which frankly sounds like doublespeak to me, sorry.

It's difficult for people these days to grasp this for some reason, I'm not sure why. It's no different than recognizing the different features of varying dog breeds. Some are more aggressive, some are more intelligent, etc. Why anyone would conclude that someone hates certain dog breeds based on the fact that they're recognizing the scientific differences between them is beyond me.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

No social class difference between us. Both upper-middle-class, though her upbringing was very conventional and mine had homeschooling and other non-mainstream features to it.

So what has prompted the contempt and profound lack of respect that your parents have made quite clear they they hold her in and have made a point of showing her?

 

[StephenCampbell]

So what has prompted the contempt and profound lack of respect that your parents have made quite clear they they hold her in and have made a point of showing her?

That's a result of my parents being who they are. They have very little, if any, ability to truly respect any other person or their feelings, and sadly I inherited this trait from them.

I mean, there is a sort of culture difference, in that my mom comes from a culture of Jewish intellectuals, etc, and my wife's family is just mainstream white American, aka "goyim."

 

[A.Goldberg]

No social class difference between us. Both upper-middle-class, though her upbringing was very conventional and mine had homeschooling and other non-mainstream features to it.
[doublepost=1466115857][/doublepost]

It's difficult for people these days to grasp this for some reason, I'm not sure why. It's no different than recognizing the different features of varying dog breeds. Some are more aggressive, some are more intelligent, etc. Why anyone would conclude that someone hates certain dog breeds based on the fact that they're recognizing the scientific differences between them is beyond me.

Okay...but humans are humans. Just because someone is X race does not inherently and automatically make them more or less intelligent. Upbringing, socioeconomics, parenting, and many other factors has a lot to do with intelligence. And intelligence does not necessarily equate to socioeconomic success. IQ tests are not exactly reliable in that there are cultural nuances that affect the results. If you want to talk about "realism" the reality is race is a very poor indicator of such. A "race realist" sounds like a backward politically correct way of saying your racist. Racism, by definition is making assumptions about people by their race.

Racism: belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.​

I'm Jewish, and I know a number of black and white-European individuals that I see as far more intelligent than me. I know a lot of not so smart Jews and Asians. Stephen, you as someone who is 75% Ashkenazi Jew can I rightfully assume you're neurotic, obsessive, greedy, lying, money chasing swindler, a parasite on society, with no concern for anyone except yourself and other Jews? Because I'm 100% Jewish am I 25% worse in these facets?

There are places were assumptions can likely be made about ones race, like medicine. I know not to generally give an ACE inhibitor to an black person due to genetic/enzymatic differences that will make ACE-I's less effective overall in treating hypertension. That said, I believe most of the info you believe on races' temperament, intelligence, etc is NOT scientific, rather pseudoscientific. Science takes into account all variables, pseudoscience takes nuggets statistics and uses them to fit a narrative. Stormfront, or similar, is not a scientific journal.

Black and white thinking like this, aka splitting, is associated with mental health conditions... Or low intelligence. Or at the very least a lack of worldliness. Maybe some deep reflection will let you see how assumptions like these might reflect other thoughts you have.

This isn't PRSI, this isn't the place for an debate, I'm not judging you for your beliefs (As much as I disagree with them). I'm simply suggesting such beliefs is indicative of a bigger problem and/or hightlights pattern of generalized black and white thinking... That is often problematic and seen in depression and anxiety. If things are all good or all bad, it's hard to ever be content.

 

[rdowns]

I mean, there is a sort of culture difference, in that my mom comes from a culture of Jewish intellectuals, etc, and my wife's family is just mainstream white American, aka "goyim."

Goyim is a derogatory term.

 

[5105973]

No social class difference between us. Both upper-middle-class, though her upbringing was very conventional and mine had homeschooling and other non-mainstream features to it.
[doublepost=1466115857][/doublepost]

It's difficult for people these days to grasp this for some reason, I'm not sure why. It's no different than recognizing the different features of varying dog breeds. Some are more aggressive, some are more intelligent, etc. Why anyone would conclude that someone hates certain dog breeds based on the fact that they're recognizing the scientific differences between them is beyond me.

Well, for one we are talking about human beings, not dogs. If you're saying an entire race of human beings is characterized by a deficient IQ and greater propensity toward violence and poverty and other undesirable traits, well, duh...members of that race or who are a mix that includes that race are going to feel extremely disrespected, marginalized and call you on racism. Conversely, you're going to let some real stinkers from the "favored race" skate by on very little merit.

As a person of Jewish heritage whose people endured a Holocaust based on a propaganda that Jews possessed traits detrimental to German society and culture, well don't you see the dangers in such ideas as race realism?

There are Jews in my family, as well, and many among my friends and colleagues and any of them would agree that whole goyim thing is so played out. I didn't even know there were still Jewish people who thought that way, not after the Holocaust when countless "goyim" gave their lives to end the Nazis and liberate the survivors in the concentration camps. I personally never met a Jewish person who thought that way, but I'm well aware I've met only a insignificant fraction of all Jews, and since they are willing to intermarry with and socialize heavily with non Jews, they may be very different from other Jews I haven't gotten to know as well, who may be more insular. I should not be surprised then to find one who holds a very specific form of insular thinking. I think you've absorbed more of this type of thinking from your mother than you realize.

Since I'm pretty much laid up in bed today, I had nothing better to do than drop by that other site you named. Good grief, I can't see how it's any improvement on the site you left behind. There were really endless cheap shots on black people. As if only black people ever commit heinous crimes and mass atrocities and fail to thrive in public education systems and abuse their teachers.

Those kinds of sites are one collective disconnect from reality. A reality that ignores the black doctors and ministers and teachers and paramedics and executives and mentors and friends and neighbors who have blessed the lives of me and my family. Why would an intelligent person choose to immerse themselves in an echo chamber of hate and prejudice? Getting back to the topic of your mental health and well-being, do you think it's healthy to persist in following ideologies that are divisive?

If you follow their trains of thought to their ultimate conclusion, you'll conclude that certain races are hampered by their DNA and will self consign themselves to a perpetual underachieving underclass that will ultimately drain society. To protect the "superior races and the society they built" (by exploitation of "lesser peoples"), separation will become necessary. This will be resisted and will therefore lead to armed conflict or oppression. There will be less peace and progress under separatist movements than more.

Race is a poor basis to unite under. Doing so ignores the overachievers of the disparaged race and the underachievers of the favored race. It's illogical. Once again, relating back to your well-being, do you feel it's healthy to adhere to illogical dogmas? Doing so is only going to reinforce this pattern you have of disconnecting. No wonder you feel detached from life at times.

Real life demands more thought and attention to actual individual people than floating along on dogma does. I call it dogma because these ideas of yours don't stand up to dealing with real people in the real world. They are generalities that apply nebulously to pockets of people who haven't broken free of a hideous history and still-fractured present, yet. And they ignore the virtues of the individual. And you know how I know? Because I've contemplated these dogmas myself, thrown at me as they were. I've held them up against real individuals in constant daily real world situations and they don't hold up consistently enough for me not to discard them. Yes, I've known violent brutish black thugs. But I've also known their polar opposites in the same race. I've also known incredibly stupid underachieving white and Asian thugs and losers as well as the lauded overachievers. So I take all those statistics and anecdotes those people throw out on those hate forums and stuff them. I don't look at races, I look at the people I need to deal with on an individual basis.

Come to think of it, I do apply the same approach to dogs. I've known some might nice pit bulls and some really nasty bitey golden retrievers. Generalizations take a person only so far.

If you're ever in DC be sure to visit the Holocaust Museum. Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. There's a reason Jewish people have been involved at the forefront of civil rights, and it's not the reason conspiracy theorists and neo Nazis give.
[doublepost=1466121228][/doublepost]

Okay...but humans are humans. Just because someone is X race does not inherently and automatically make them more or less intelligent. Upbringing, socioeconomics, parenting, and many other factors has a lot to do with intelligence. And intelligence does not necessarily equate to socioeconomic success. IQ tests are not exactly reliable in that there are cultural nuances that affect the results. If you want to talk about "realism" the reality is race is a very poor indicator of such. A "race realist" sounds like a backward politically correct way of saying your racist. Racism, by definition is making assumptions about people by their race.

Racism: belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.​

I'm Jewish, and I know a number of black and white-European individuals that I see as far more intelligent than me. I know a lot of not so smart Jews and Asians. Stephen, you as someone who is 75% Ashkenazi Jew can I rightfully assume you're neurotic, obsessive, greedy, lying, money chasing swindler, a parasite on society, with no concern for anyone except yourself and other Jews? Because I'm 100% Jewish am I 25% worse in these facets?

There are places were assumptions can likely be made about ones race, like medicine. I know not to generally give an ACE inhibitor to an black person due to genetic/enzymatic differences that will make ACE-I's less effective overall in treating hypertension. That said, I believe most of the info you believe on races' temperament, intelligence, etc is NOT scientific, rather pseudoscientific. Science takes into account all variables, pseudoscience takes nuggets statistics and uses them to fit a narrative. Stormfront, or similar, is not a scientific journal.

Black and white thinking like this, aka splitting, is associated with mental health conditions... Or low intelligence. Or at the very least a lack of worldliness. Maybe some deep reflection will let you see how assumptions like these might reflect other thoughts you have.

This isn't PRSI, this isn't the place for an debate, I'm not judging you for your beliefs (As much as I disagree with them). I'm simply suggesting such beliefs is indicative of a bigger problem and/or hightlights pattern of generalized black and white thinking... That is often problematic and seen in depression and anxiety. If things are all good or all bad, it's hard to ever be content.

Awesome post! I was slowly and laboriously typing mine as you made yours and I am gratified to see we parallel some of the same points, in different ways. I appreciate your stronger scientific background. I've learned so much from you and others in this thread. It's been a rewarding and enriching experience to be a part of this, even though at times I can't help feel a bit sad about certain things.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Goyim is a derogatory term.

Technically it's not derogatory, but in general it's used with a negative connotation in which case clearly it would be. Gentile is the safer term. In the context of the OP, I can only assume he feels his family being (Jewish) "intellectuals" and his wife being "goyim" demonstrates a sense off superiority (goyim stereotype- inferior, stupid, intellectually unsophisticated, few or misplaced morals, untrustworthy, hyper-masculine if male or immodest if female, etc).

@GrumpyMom, I figured as such, I'm glad we're on the same page. I thought the eugenics movement was disproven and over, but I suppose not. Great points about about disconnects aka delusions our friend is experiencing. Humans love organization, separating the world into little boxes, unfortunately life is not that simple. It's ludicrous to believe people's behaviors cannot be soley described by race or genetics, it's a well we'll know fact there is so much more to the equation.

I have a lot of pity for people with such narrow minded beliefs. I don't dispise them, nor do I hope to silence them. I merely hope they can open their eyes and minds wide enough to see the world in its entirety. Hopefully our discussion is a means to that end.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
I think this topic been beaten to death, and we're now discussing issues/subject matters that's better left in the PRSI