Competition is good, Android needs to stay. I don't have Apple products because I hate Android. I have them because I like Apple.
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(thoughts) our biggest argument against android
- Thread starter NateJamesMeyers
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Competition is good, Android needs to stay. I don't have Apple products because I hate Android. I have them because I like Apple.
Not quite sure why having choices needs to become a defensive argument.
Having recently starting to play with OSx and android platforms, my experience on both were the same; clunky, unrefined and unpolished.
After spending sometime on each that is simply a perception as part of a paradigm shift.
Apps are like going to the supermarket, thousands of different products but you only purchase a very small percentage of what's available. On the same note many customers buy the same item. But in the end you don't buy the entire store, you don't always buy the store label, you simply buy what you like or need.
From my experience I can easily use both platforms, iOS and android, and accomplish what I need. Something's are smoother/easier on iOS while other things are smoother/easier on android.
Having recently starting to play with OSx and android platforms, my experience on both were the same; clunky, unrefined and unpolished.
After spending sometime on each that is simply a perception as part of a paradigm shift.
Apps are like going to the supermarket, thousands of different products but you only purchase a very small percentage of what's available. On the same note many customers buy the same item. But in the end you don't buy the entire store, you don't always buy the store label, you simply buy what you like or need.
From my experience I can easily use both platforms, iOS and android, and accomplish what I need. Something's are smoother/easier on iOS while other things are smoother/easier on android.
For me, it really comes down to the app advantage and the interface advantage. Sure, out of the box, Android may give more configuration options, but it has never gotten to the point of where I could just give the device to my mom, say to run apps touch this, and this is the home button. Everything is just intuitive for someone who isn't computer savvy at all.
While Android does do some things that could attract very computer savvy people, too much of its regular system requires people to learn a certain amount of techie jargon to operate. This has been the case since the entire subsystem was imagined. Like I so eloquently mentioned, time and time again on this site, it all comes down to the very mantra Apple went for in the first place. The very mantra that, it seems, none of the competition either understands or even tries to do.
Like I said with the Phone market. The established people who are really lapping up these Apple products aren't Apple fanboys, nerds, yuppies, or whatever name people feel like throwing at them. There just isn't enough of them in the world to even remotely produce those numbers. If I'm wrong, then Apple products should've made a huge dent in the computer industry *BEFORE* the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad. But the truth of the matter is that it didn't. Afterwards, even Apple keynotes say they're a portable company, because that's where all their big revenue is coming from.
It came from the great timing of business, and the way they established (or changed) the market into one for which the most attractive buys in that market follow that precise Apple mantra. Machines and systems built for humans to use naturally, not machines for which humans have to learn to be machines to use. Steve gloats that factor every time they put up that image with the sign that has the crossroads of Technology and Liberal arts. Apple jumpstarted or produced these markets, so that's the mantra. The desktop and laptop market was established from the Techie side of things, so computer savvy competition still rules that market.
It's why without a rebuild of Android, from the ground up, with this in mind, they will never compete with Apple on their own game. Instead, they'll offer a more Windows approach to the market, but without being Windows per-se. Choices are choices. Still, it takes more computer savvy to operate Androids. One of the reasons why, though the growth is there, I don't forsee the market toppling Apple as long as technical savvy folks are severely outnumbered by the less technical savvy folks who don't want to bother with all that mindset training to operate a machine. So to speak, the actual major audience of these Apple products are the complete and utter opposite of the folks people seem to talk about. So if all the people, for which people think are these apple users with some holier than thou attitude, suddenly stopped buying Apple products, the iPods, iPads, Iphones would still be selling like this, and getting the same market share. Even we, on forums like this, are hardly even a dent in that market.
Same thing for the phone. If a phone maker wants to really compete with Apple's true market, they need to make a phone for which it isn't daunting to approach. It needs to market to the people who still hold onto their non-smartphones because they're simpler. The other companies also need to change their advertisements. Stop trying to preach some technical savvy jargon on the TV, when people simply want to see some real useful app and an extremely simple (non-thinking) way it operates and actually shows use. Do each one in a couple of seconds or so. Non-techie people just want to see how simple it is to do something awesome, and just what they'd like to do.
Now for me, personally, it's all about the Apps and performance of said apps. Something Android has yet to offer. Yes, a lot of it is due to being late to the game, but performance is another thing, too. I haven't seen one which was comparable even though the multitasking isn't bad. Still, I haven't really had use for said multitasking that goes beyond what iOS 4 already does. Still, it's simple. There's a good number of Apps only Apple has, and they work really well. Apple has the KORG machine emulators, Android doesn't. Apple has a number of music interfaces that I use, with full ability to share, export, etc. Android doesn't. iOS has Garageband, Android doesn't have anything like it, though it did get an app sort of like fruity loops in it. Not a bad start, but definitely missing quite a few instrument options to allow the range of music creation GB does. Still, it only competes with certain 3rd party applications made way before Garageband even launched.
But here's the catch, it does pretty much what everything else does. The products launch on iOS first, someone tries to copy, like a Parrot, for something else and often not shooting for the moon in doing so. So they get something working, most often to a less intuitive interface (but every once in a while, doing it well), but then the originals update, and the process begins anew. Now some will say, sure, it's a wait, but the apps will eventually catch up. But then I present the PC/Mac argument all over again. With the PCs always arguing that they got these Apps first. So why suddenly change the reason because an Apple product is ahead of the App game?
Still, Android offers some Techie aspects into that market, spilled over from the desktop/laptop model. They seem more like direct Windows competition, than anything else. So in a way, they add spice, and get enough hits for usability to keep Apple on its toes for what they need to do to stay on top of their-specific game. It's all good.
While Android does do some things that could attract very computer savvy people, too much of its regular system requires people to learn a certain amount of techie jargon to operate. This has been the case since the entire subsystem was imagined. Like I so eloquently mentioned, time and time again on this site, it all comes down to the very mantra Apple went for in the first place. The very mantra that, it seems, none of the competition either understands or even tries to do.
Like I said with the Phone market. The established people who are really lapping up these Apple products aren't Apple fanboys, nerds, yuppies, or whatever name people feel like throwing at them. There just isn't enough of them in the world to even remotely produce those numbers. If I'm wrong, then Apple products should've made a huge dent in the computer industry *BEFORE* the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad. But the truth of the matter is that it didn't. Afterwards, even Apple keynotes say they're a portable company, because that's where all their big revenue is coming from.
It came from the great timing of business, and the way they established (or changed) the market into one for which the most attractive buys in that market follow that precise Apple mantra. Machines and systems built for humans to use naturally, not machines for which humans have to learn to be machines to use. Steve gloats that factor every time they put up that image with the sign that has the crossroads of Technology and Liberal arts. Apple jumpstarted or produced these markets, so that's the mantra. The desktop and laptop market was established from the Techie side of things, so computer savvy competition still rules that market.
It's why without a rebuild of Android, from the ground up, with this in mind, they will never compete with Apple on their own game. Instead, they'll offer a more Windows approach to the market, but without being Windows per-se. Choices are choices. Still, it takes more computer savvy to operate Androids. One of the reasons why, though the growth is there, I don't forsee the market toppling Apple as long as technical savvy folks are severely outnumbered by the less technical savvy folks who don't want to bother with all that mindset training to operate a machine. So to speak, the actual major audience of these Apple products are the complete and utter opposite of the folks people seem to talk about. So if all the people, for which people think are these apple users with some holier than thou attitude, suddenly stopped buying Apple products, the iPods, iPads, Iphones would still be selling like this, and getting the same market share. Even we, on forums like this, are hardly even a dent in that market.
Same thing for the phone. If a phone maker wants to really compete with Apple's true market, they need to make a phone for which it isn't daunting to approach. It needs to market to the people who still hold onto their non-smartphones because they're simpler. The other companies also need to change their advertisements. Stop trying to preach some technical savvy jargon on the TV, when people simply want to see some real useful app and an extremely simple (non-thinking) way it operates and actually shows use. Do each one in a couple of seconds or so. Non-techie people just want to see how simple it is to do something awesome, and just what they'd like to do.
Now for me, personally, it's all about the Apps and performance of said apps. Something Android has yet to offer. Yes, a lot of it is due to being late to the game, but performance is another thing, too. I haven't seen one which was comparable even though the multitasking isn't bad. Still, I haven't really had use for said multitasking that goes beyond what iOS 4 already does. Still, it's simple. There's a good number of Apps only Apple has, and they work really well. Apple has the KORG machine emulators, Android doesn't. Apple has a number of music interfaces that I use, with full ability to share, export, etc. Android doesn't. iOS has Garageband, Android doesn't have anything like it, though it did get an app sort of like fruity loops in it. Not a bad start, but definitely missing quite a few instrument options to allow the range of music creation GB does. Still, it only competes with certain 3rd party applications made way before Garageband even launched.
But here's the catch, it does pretty much what everything else does. The products launch on iOS first, someone tries to copy, like a Parrot, for something else and often not shooting for the moon in doing so. So they get something working, most often to a less intuitive interface (but every once in a while, doing it well), but then the originals update, and the process begins anew. Now some will say, sure, it's a wait, but the apps will eventually catch up. But then I present the PC/Mac argument all over again. With the PCs always arguing that they got these Apps first. So why suddenly change the reason because an Apple product is ahead of the App game?
Still, Android offers some Techie aspects into that market, spilled over from the desktop/laptop model. They seem more like direct Windows competition, than anything else. So in a way, they add spice, and get enough hits for usability to keep Apple on its toes for what they need to do to stay on top of their-specific game. It's all good.
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except thats no longer the case - Android is user friendly enough where noobs are picking it up and using it with no problem.
Many people don't even know how to use iOS properly - I had to show someone they were using maps inside a browser instead of the native app on their iphone, and how to copy paste, they had their 3gs for 1 year already and they didnt know.
I see tons of girls and older folk (typically who i think need "easier" devices to use) using androind in London UK. The shift is happening now.
Many people don't even know how to use iOS properly - I had to show someone they were using maps inside a browser instead of the native app on their iphone, and how to copy paste, they had their 3gs for 1 year already and they didnt know.
I see tons of girls and older folk (typically who i think need "easier" devices to use) using androind in London UK. The shift is happening now.
Hard to say. When looking at people, you can't simply tell by demograph that they are or aren't already technically savvy or are just applying what these folks learned from PCs to use said hardware. There are girls and older folk using devices to do stuff before even the iPhone came into place.
Copy and Paste from a touchscreen is always something people have to show to do, unless they accidentally hold their finger on text to do something. Of course, you could simply tell folks to try holding their finger on stuff in a browser, or anything with text or links in it, which would kind of give most of that away. Show me one instantly intuitive copy and paste method on any machine in history (without a little instruction), and I'll stand corrected. Probably one reason the initial iOS didn't launch with it. The Maps in browser and other stuff isn't even a question of whether they knew iOS, that's just simply knowledge of what app they were in. That's completely independent of any operating system.
A shift is bound to happen, but to what degree is up in the air. I'm still working with Android phones and while strides have been made, there are a number of things that still seem less intuitive even when it comes down to contacts management.
Copy and Paste from a touchscreen is always something people have to show to do, unless they accidentally hold their finger on text to do something. Of course, you could simply tell folks to try holding their finger on stuff in a browser, or anything with text or links in it, which would kind of give most of that away. Show me one instantly intuitive copy and paste method on any machine in history (without a little instruction), and I'll stand corrected. Probably one reason the initial iOS didn't launch with it. The Maps in browser and other stuff isn't even a question of whether they knew iOS, that's just simply knowledge of what app they were in. That's completely independent of any operating system.
A shift is bound to happen, but to what degree is up in the air. I'm still working with Android phones and while strides have been made, there are a number of things that still seem less intuitive even when it comes down to contacts management.
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I'm not so sure. I have talked with many people that have shifted from Android to the iPhone for various reasons. Based on my small sampling of people though, is not enough to conclude that everyone is leaving Android for iOS, does it?
I think that we take far too much notice of market share, and not enough notice of profit. Companies stop making products if they are unprofitable, if they are profitable and have low market share a company will still make a product. Android is not really making google a profit. IOS is absolutely making apple a profit. I don't think that either are going to disappear any time soon, but if one did, I think it would be the one that isn't making that much money.
The interface is anything you want it to be, really. I had an iPhone and loved it, switched to a cheaper phone last year, and got an android last month. I'm enjoying it.
Also, I like my interface.
Not that there's anything wrong with an iPhone, but your interface looks exactly like this, except for the background (unless jailbroken)
The only reason I would want an iPhone 4 now is because of the amazing screen and the sexiness of the device. I can replicate most of the actual functionality on my phone.
People should stop trying to argue for or against Android or iOS. The fact that Android exists is a good thing for Apple fans. Take a look at Google I/O if you have a chance. Some really cool stuff being done with mobile device software.
I have a blazing-fast Samsung Fascinate running Android 2.2. If you know how to use and customize Android, it's far more "slick and polished" than iOS. I hadn't touched iOS for a while but then I got an iPad 2 and it just seems out-of-date compared to Android. Yes the iPad is fast, but there's only so much you can do with it outside of an app's closed off environment. Android is simply more robust and customizable. That being said, I completely understand why Apple prefers to have a locked down OS under their full control.
I bought an iPad and will continue to buy Apple products because of the endless number of accessories available and the degree of standardization between their devices (and I love iTunes). Yes, Android devices and the Android Market are a bit unwieldy, but if you know how to use Android to suit your needs and have a decent piece of hardware, then it's easy to conclude it's the better OS.
I bought an iPad and will continue to buy Apple products because of the endless number of accessories available and the degree of standardization between their devices (and I love iTunes). Yes, Android devices and the Android Market are a bit unwieldy, but if you know how to use Android to suit your needs and have a decent piece of hardware, then it's easy to conclude it's the better OS.
For me, it is the widgets. I can get an overview of everything - weather, emails, sms, calendar, etc, just by glancing at my home screen. There is nothing even close in iOS - and given that iOS notifications absolutely suck, there is no way to quickly get info without diving into each app.
You know it's kind of funny. I can't place my finger on why, exactly, but when I use iOS now it feels like I live in a house of apps and each app is a separate room. I can walk out into the hallway with a door still open, but ultimately everything is separate. With Android it seems like I can access anything from anywhere really -- the notification system really is just so much better than iOS, it's unbelievable. Widgets are nice and pretty functional but I don't go too crazy with them -- I have a widget with all my toggles (wifi, bluetooth, 3G, gps, volume, brightness) and 1 for music. It's funny how much more intuitive sliding over and pausing/unpausing the music from a widget is, instead of unlocking, clicking on iPod, and pausing (or double tapping at the lockscreen and pausing/resume)
iOS is nice. I love my iPad. But I think I'm pretty much an Android user for phones from now on.
A few thoughts that could be self-evident but important.
1. we should remain slightly skeptical about claims (particularly in the phone market) that this is about platforms rather than devices. There will always be those who are consciously committed to a mobile platform, but what if smartphones are merely viewed as glorified feature phones? What happens if everyone who purchased an iPhone 3GS in 2009 upgrades this summer and is evenly split between an iPhone and something else? What happens if everyone who bought a post 2009 Droid switches to iPhone when their contract is up?
2. Phones are not the same as tablets or iPod touch-like devices? What do we say if in 5 years, Android has 70% of the phone market, iOS has 80% of the iPod touch market, and 70% of the tablet market?
3. What if neither phone OS is able capable of pulling away in price, hardware quality, and core technical capabilities? We basically are left with two healthy systems so the debate is immaterial.
This debate makes for good page views for writers who like to engage in histrionics and for iOS and Android demagogues, but don't we all think it's too premature to talk about a competition that is really less than 2 years old on devices sold with 2 year contracts?
1. we should remain slightly skeptical about claims (particularly in the phone market) that this is about platforms rather than devices. There will always be those who are consciously committed to a mobile platform, but what if smartphones are merely viewed as glorified feature phones? What happens if everyone who purchased an iPhone 3GS in 2009 upgrades this summer and is evenly split between an iPhone and something else? What happens if everyone who bought a post 2009 Droid switches to iPhone when their contract is up?
2. Phones are not the same as tablets or iPod touch-like devices? What do we say if in 5 years, Android has 70% of the phone market, iOS has 80% of the iPod touch market, and 70% of the tablet market?
3. What if neither phone OS is able capable of pulling away in price, hardware quality, and core technical capabilities? We basically are left with two healthy systems so the debate is immaterial.
This debate makes for good page views for writers who like to engage in histrionics and for iOS and Android demagogues, but don't we all think it's too premature to talk about a competition that is really less than 2 years old on devices sold with 2 year contracts?
That is a good thing, but until implemented it is still a current issue. I am also not sure how they can guarantee timely updates with how much every carrier wants to customize things before they send things out.
People said that for years about the mac.
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This is one of Apples continuing blunders IMO. All they really need is lockscreen information, hell they should just purchase Intelliscreen and use that. I've had lockscreen info since 10 years ago when I was on Windows Mobile, I just don't get why such an incredibly simple, incredibly useful tool such as lockscreen information has still not been implemented into iOS? It's this mentality, this long list of obvious yet excluded features that always make me look twice at other smartphone OS', every single one of them from RIM to Palm/HP, to Android to Windows have these basic features.
There is something about Apple's iOS team that just isn't syncing for some reason, they remind me of the Windows Mobile team 10 years ago when every single user was shouting at the top of their lungs what would easily save Windows Mobile yet Microsoft chose to ignore them.
Incredibly simple! But what are the tradeoffs?
It's just like copy/paste. Everyone was complaining how simple and easy and how it should have been there from day one. If it was so simple and easy and incredibly useful, why did it take Android longer to implement it completely than Apple?
Usually, when things seem so simple and obvious, you should consider the possibility that you don't have the whole picture.
It's probably not simple to do notifications, but they should have figured out how to do them properly by now.
Sure. It would be nice. It's one of my top 5 feature requests. Evidently, they had different priorities.
And they were right. It was a $150 million cash infusion from Microsoft in 1997 that kept Apple afloat. Who could have predicted that, or that Apple would start using PC hardware in their machines?
And the myth continues for another day...
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/stop-the-lies-the-day-that-microsoft-saved-apple/7036
I don't know, I'm not a programmer or a developer. What I am is a consumer that can walk into any electronics store and see every single other smartphone platform have something like lockscreen information. Take it one step further and you can install intelliscreen and other programs that work beautifully at giving you lockscreen information, unfortunately only on JB devices though. So even Apple's own iphone has lockscreen information, just not officially.
That is some good background information, but I don't see how it changes the fact that Microsoft's cash infusion (whether legally obligatory or not) and partnership in 1997 is what helped Apple turn itself around.
Half the computer clusters on campus back then were macs. The only people who supported apple were a die hard group of very savvy enthusiasts.
Where do you think that Apple would be without the cash from the settlement? Their #1 (in terms of how widespread it was) product at the time was quicktime video. Quicktime video! This, from a company whose main business was making computers and operating systems.
I think you hit a very important point about intuitiveness. I have played around with a couple of Android phones my friends have and i had to change how I used each one. I even had to sit down and figure out how to turn the ringer off for a co-worker. (This was an early android phone from last year... YMMV). However, I played around with the Xoom a month ago and was pleasantly surprised. BUT, I still had to figure out how to use some of the features. That, and the fact it was shipped without touted features turned me off. I'm pretty tech savvy but if it takes me more than 10 secs to figure out where the ON/OFF button is, somebody screwed up.
iOS really has some short-comings. I really wish is had the Intelliscreen thing. It would be so much easier and quicker than have to flip through two or three apps to figure out what is going on in my day. This is very frustrating. I have hope for iOS 5 but not holding my breath. The idea of widgets is nice but I think is conflicts with the idea of apps and is potentially confusing to some. Imagine trying to explain the difference between a widget and an app to someone not very tech oriented.
I think the paradigm Apple is promoting is that you don't have to think about the OS. You don't think about opening a door or how to turn on a tv. You just do it and then do whatever is behind that door... The phone or pad is essentially a blank slate. You don't customize your TV or your door, window, dresser whatever. It simply gets out of the way when you need it to. I don't think Android is there yet. It's still wedded to the file system and that requires you to interact with the OS and not the app.