Three People Sent to Prison in China Over iPad 2 Leaks

[SoGood]

Well deserved prison term in a country where large bribes can land the death sentence.

In any case, the trio are guilty. The third party manufacturer did it for major commercial gains while those in Foxxcon took bribe and forfeited their contract. This severe sentence also makes sense from China's national business perspective. It needs to maintain the confidence of their customers. If the trio were treated leniently, then Apple and other companies with IP may well start to look elsewhere.

So perfectly logical and appropriate.

As for how bad the Chinese prisons are. Well, there's nothing wrong for prisoners to work and pay for their stay. Why should the society pay for the food and housing of criminals in relative comfort? It's all relative.

You really think that a bottom-rung factory worker in the USA would be jailed for leaking product photographs. OK.

The trio aren't "bottom-rung" production line workers at Foxconn. The are clearly white collar workers who are paid decent wages by local standard.

 

[Gamoe]

How about someone like Bernie Madoff who ruins thousands of people's lives by stealing all their retirement money?

That's obviously an extreme, unusual example. It's good for illuminating a point perhaps but extreme cases don't make good law. He certainly should not be entitled to his ill-gotten property. Perhaps taking the guy's property for life, except for essentials, would be a solution. Then again, who knows. This is a very extreme example. And let us not forget that the devil is in the details.

What I said was a generality and shouldn't be taken as a complete absolute, as I don't believe in absolutes. But generally speaking, I don't believe that people who have committed non-violent crimes should be put imprisoned.

That just isn't a feasible option. Too many people would commit crimes that are non-violent if prison wasn't a deterrent.

Prison isn't even a practical deterrent for a lot of violent crimes. That notwithstanding, there are many other effective deterrents available than prison.

So I ruin people's lives in any of a myriad non-violent ways (blackmail, fraud, theft, arson, burglary, robbery, identity theft, invasion of privacy, false imprisonment, extortion, embezzlement, environmental contamination, etc.) and you'll just give me a kitten, a pat on the back, and send me on my way?

A lot of the crimes you mentioned are indeed violent. How is setting a house ablaze not a violent act? How is false imprisonment not violent? How is poisoning a community not violent? Maybe we just have different conceptions of violence. Either way, how did I imply "a kitten, a pat on the back"? Aren't those your own (rather extreme) assumptions of where I'm coming from?

I cannot contend with every single crime and incidence within one broad statement. The simple fact is that I think far too many non-violent people end up in prison, and I think that is very harsh, to say the least. I challenge you to literally "think outside the box" and realize that there are other ways of dealing with most other criminal behavior that doesn't involve serious violence than sticking people in prison, where often the non-violent become violent and the not-so-great become worse.

If you're just coming from a "punish" attitude, then nothing I say will make any sense. I believe people should repay the damage they've done to society or members of society, but if what you're looking for is an emotional, vengeful gratification, then we simply have opposing viewpoints, period. But when you consider the overall health of a society and the epidemic levels of prisons and prisoners you start to wonder if there isn't a better way of dealing with these problems than prison.

Frankly, even as a long-time Mac user, I don't think anyone of Apple's products or secrets are worth years of somebody's life behind bars. Funny these guys get years, Gates gets billions and gets called a noble philanthropist. That doesn't mean they should get away with it scot-free, mind you. But I am extremely doubtful of the fairness of China's justice system.

 

[SoGood]

What I said was a generality and shouldn't be taken as a complete absolute, as I don't believe in absolutes. But generally speaking, I don't believe that people who have committed non-violent crimes should be put imprisoned.

No absolute alright. Determination of punishment also needs to consider the social circumstances. It's completely aloft to apply what's appropriate in the US in China. Society is different, culturally different, circumstances differ, population size differ and the list goes on. And any sociologist would know their research and conclusion must take these factors into account.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

DON'T SCREW WITH MR JOBS!

 

[AidenShaw]

No absolute alright. Determination of punishment also needs to consider the social circumstances. It's completely aloft to apply what's appropriate in the US in China. Society is different, culturally different, circumstances differ, population size differ and the list goes on. And any sociologist would know their research and conclusion must take these factors into account.

On the other hand, it's well known that some Asian countries don't value "intellectual property" the same way that many Western countries consider it.

How do you reconcile the fact that pirate DVDs and BDs are sold with impunity on the streets and in the malls of China - yet a few people go to prison for selling minor Apple secrets?

It doesn't seem "fair and balanced" - why is sharing Apple's IP a crime worth prison, yet "sharing" a director's cut of the Avator BD is ignored?

Inquiring minds want to know....

DON'T SCREW WITH MR JOBS!

The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....

 

[Gamoe]

The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....

Ouch!

 

[milatchi]

Good, those 3 people deserve it!
I hope Apple convinces them to use the death sentence (if one exists in China) and they let Steve Jobs personally administer the injection! Leaking corporate secrets -- especially those of a benevolent companly like Apple -- is inexcusable and should be considered a high crime! Apple has never and I can't see them ever doing anything questionable.
Way to go Apple and way to go China, yay!

 

[Glideslope]

Prison???? No. Getting fired and a major fine, yes.

You obviously do not have experience with the DOD.

 

[reactions]

Haven't read through but has anyone called for the death penalty ?

That's extreme

Some would say the gizmodo blogger should of gone to jail

 

[LarryC]

You obviously do not have experience with the DOD.

Earlier in this thread somebody compared the Apple product being manufactured there as a toy. And in a way, it is. You cannot actually equate something made in a toy factory to something manufactured by the United States Department of Defense! There is no comparing an iPad to a thermonuclear device.

 

[Kwill]

The Chinese prison system is very different from what we know...That said, China has less people in prison per capita than the US, less violent crime per capita and less theft per capita. So something works.

Globalized commerce, with its shady business practices is reaching the hearts of Asian employees.

This isn't Apple this is Foxconn and yes, people in the U.S. do get sent to jail for leaking company secrets.

Just ask Martha Stewart.

Don't do the crime... If you can't do the time!

They did and they will.

18 months isn't even that harsh for China's standards compared, for example, to those they catch making fake DVDs or Louis Vuitton handbags.

I am certain the defendants are happy with the ruling.

He didnt ruin anybodys life, he just made other greedy people unhappy. Prison for leaking information about a toy? Rediculous.

The defendants ruined their own lives and jeopardized Apple sales. Competitors salivate for prerelease info; just look at Samsung.

We're all part of that mass who wants blood diamonds of info leaks and fuel these miners to put themselves at risk.

It is hard to imagine why anyone would risk losing their job, spending more than a year in prison and paying heavy fines for about $3000.

Oh wait, where is this story? (MacRumors.)​

 

[wovel]

So I ruin people's lives in any of a myriad non-violent ways (blackmail, fraud, theft, arson, burglary, robbery, identity theft, invasion of privacy, false imprisonment, extortion, embezzlement, environmental contamination, etc.) and you'll just give me a kitten, a pat on the back, and send me on my way?

Not to pick nits (Ok I know I am), but robbery (at least as it is defined in Texas) is a violent crime. It requires force or the threat of force.

§ 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in
the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with
intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes
bodily injury to another; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places
another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second
degree.

On the other hand, it's well known that some Asian countries don't value "intellectual property" the same way that many Western countries consider it.

How do you reconcile the fact that pirate DVDs and BDs are sold with impunity on the streets and in the malls of China - yet a few people go to prison for selling minor Apple secrets?

It doesn't seem "fair and balanced" - why is sharing Apple's IP a crime worth prison, yet "sharing" a director's cut of the Avator BD is ignored?

Inquiring minds want to know....





The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....

If they do not protect the secrets of products being manufactured in China, their economy will collapse when companies move their manufacturing to countries that are willing to protect them. If Foxconn does not seek prosecution and these leaks keep happening, Apple will just go somewhere else.

 

[rdlink]

The US as a country still has the death penalty for federal offenses. Timothy McVeigh was executed under federal jurisdiction.

And I, for one couldn't be any happier about that.

 

[cmaier]

Not to pick nits (Ok I know I am), but robbery (at least as it is defined in Texas) is a violent crime. It requires force or the threat of force.

LOL. Okay. Then forget my whole point

 

[iUser4Lyfe]

Ok does this sound better: Parts of the USA still have death sentencing and the national government is tolerating this instead of banning it nation wide.

This is a truly ridiculous statement. Lets go ahead a rip up the Constitution while the Government is banning things nation wide.

 

[rmanbike]

Communism is a crime

As most crimes in China dont get reported or recorded by the state run media

 

[toomanyipods]

I have always wished companies would offer two versions. A cheap version to be competetive and a socially conscious green version. Some customers would pay more for a product that was environmentally friendly and socially aware.

Sadly, you would need two versions as some comptitor would just make it in the third world and undersell you.

But Apple has the cachet to pull this off and create some needed jobs and pay in needed areas.

The Canadian Company, Chariot Carriers has done just that. They sell a very nice and flexible product, that does carry a price premium. It is made in Canada, is lightweight, more durable, and considered one of the best in the industry. They also sell the "Cabriolet", which is a heavier, foreign made model, that sells for 15-20% less, or so. We bought one of the more expensive models, and I don't regret the purchase.

They seem to be very successful in this marketing approach.

www.chariotcarriers.com/

 

[Snowy_River]

...Prison isn't even a practical deterrent for a lot of violent crimes. That notwithstanding, there are many other effective deterrents available than prison...

To help some people understand your point a bit better, there have been suggestions made, from time to time, that prisons should be replaced with labor camps where a criminal who committed a nonviolent crime must work off the debt to society. For example, if I stole a car and wrecked it, was then caught and found guilty, assessed a fine of $10,000 plus the value of the car, say $35,000, I would be sent to a work camp where I would be put to work using what skills I have. My income would have to pay for the cost of my "room and board", and anything left over would go toward paying off my $45,000 debt to society. There are numerous variations on this model, including both the idea of these camps being government run, much like a make-work prison system, as well as the possibility of these being private "camps". To date, usually, when such ideas are brought up, for every proponent there are ten opponents.

But, the main point is that simply putting someone in prison is not the only way to run a (nonviolent) punishment system.

This is a truly ridiculous statement. Lets go ahead a rip up the Constitution while the Government is banning things nation wide.

Yes, there is no way that any activity that the majority of Americans think of as being unethical can be banned nation wide without ripping up the Constitution. I mean, let's hope that no one ever thinks that banning alcohol would be a good thing. That could never be banned nation wide... Oh, wait...

 

[iUser4Lyfe]

To help some people understand your point a bit better, there have been suggestions made, from time to time, that prisons should be replaced with labor camps where a criminal who committed a nonviolent crime must work off the debt to society. For example, if I stole a car and wrecked it, was then caught and found guilty, assessed a fine of $10,000 plus the value of the car, say $35,000, I would be sent to a work camp where I would be put to work using what skills I have. My income would have to pay for the cost of my "room and board", and anything left over would go toward paying off my $45,000 debt to society. There are numerous variations on this model, including both the idea of these camps being government run, much like a make-work prison system, as well as the possibility of these being private "camps". To date, usually, when such ideas are brought up, for every proponent there are ten opponents.

But, the main point is that simply putting someone in prison is not the only way to run a (nonviolent) punishment system.



Yes, there is no way that any activity that the majority of Americans think of as being unethical can be banned nation wide without ripping up the Constitution. I mean, let's hope that no one ever thinks that banning alcohol would be a good thing. That could never be banned nation wide... Oh, wait...

Oh because that is a great example a law in which many people would argue almost ruined the country.

Prohibition was basically an experiment that failed EPICALLY.

 

[JAT]

Its likely such statistics (e.g. Beijing or Shanghai vs NYC, LA, SF, etc) would make the crime in the US seem even worse. I've lived in several large cities around the world, Beijing being the largest and indeed the safest - extremely rare accounts of violent crime or crime against women, women comfortable walking alone at night, etc.

That's probably due to a overly harsh criminal justice system that some will admonish on human rights grounds, perhaps rightfully so, but its hard to take seriously anyone that thinks violent crime is a serious issue in Chinese cities (for common citizens).

Maybe they just don't have as many ___holes living in China.

The "post-Jobs" era will arrive long before the "post-PC" era....

How are your plans for the post-Jobs era going? Got a date set, yet?

To help some people understand your point a bit better, there have been suggestions made, from time to time, that prisons should be replaced with labor camps where a criminal who committed a nonviolent crime must work off the debt to society. For example, if I stole a car and wrecked it, was then caught and found guilty, assessed a fine of $10,000 plus the value of the car, say $35,000, I would be sent to a work camp where I would be put to work using what skills I have. My income would have to pay for the cost of my "room and board", and anything left over would go toward paying off my $45,000 debt to society. There are numerous variations on this model, including both the idea of these camps being government run, much like a make-work prison system, as well as the possibility of these being private "camps". To date, usually, when such ideas are brought up, for every proponent there are ten opponents.

Isn't that what Walmart is?

 

[LarryC]

This is a truly ridiculous statement. Lets go ahead a rip up the Constitution while the Government is banning things nation wide.

It is good to see that there are still some people in America who care about the Constitution. All we need now is for another 300 million people to wake up.

 

[SandynJosh]

Wow they are intense on this stuff.

Going to jail over information/parts from an electrical device. Heck of a way to go out.

Actually they did it solely so MacRumors could post the photos and we could argue about what it all means...they did it for US and we should be elated.

 

[Snowy_River]

Oh because that is a great example a law in which many people would argue almost ruined the country.

Prohibition was basically an experiment that failed EPICALLY.

And, of course, you totally missed the point. While Prohibition was misguided, at best, it was a national ban that was enacted in a way that was consistent with the Constitution. No ripping up of the Constitution there.

Also, there is, in fact, a completely Constitutional method of banning the death penalty nation wide without the need for a Constitutional amendment (as was the case for Prohibition). That is simply to have the Supreme Court find that the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment (which a LOT of people think that it is), which puts it in violation of the eighth amendment. Once again, no shredding of the Constitution. Some might argue that it is in fact hold up the Constitution...

 

[caspersoong]

Chinese are really strict, it is true. But I agree that the sentence is reasonable. They are making Apple lose lots of money.

 

[flottenheimer]

Crazy.