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IPPlanMan

macrumors 6502
Dec 25, 2009
365
1,482
I know what you're saying but I doubt they would trade the hassle/embarrassment they got from this for the effort in testing.

Remember the iPhone 4 “death grip” and “just don’t hold it that way”?

Apple has a history here.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
17,381
17,847
Singapore
Between the keyboard problems, thermal issues, and dongle hell, I think this generation of MacBook Pro will live in infamy alongside the "trash can" Mac Pro.

The keyboard was technically fixed with a condom, and I think users by and large have accepted the need for dongles and adaptors (or at least, it’s not a new issue). But yeah, now that you mention it, this problem sounds like the whole Mac Pro debacle again, with Apple apparently having designed their laptop into a corner.

The safest bet here just might be a 13” MBP with an E-GPU configuration?
 

Baymowe335

Suspended
Oct 6, 2017
6,640
12,451
Apple either knew and it said "**** it, ship it.”

Or it didn’t know because it didn’t adequately performance test it.

All Apple had to do was run this test to see the issue.

Apple isn’t even trying anymore. They know we’ll buy it anyway.
This kind of logic is totally insane and would not be an option for Apple or any company.
 

nikaru

macrumors 65816
Apr 23, 2009
1,025
1,282
I feel this is more Intel's fault. Apple is caught in the middle, power users want the latest and greatest chips and Apple is trying to fulfill that request, but Intel's ability to deliver is lacking. This isn't just an Apple issue, any other manufacturer that uses these chips is going to have the same issues.

Wrong. Other manufacturers would add 2mm of additional tickness to accommodate larger fan and would not hesitate to have the machine running loud if necessary in order to keep all components cool and functioning on top of their technical performance limitations and even us this additional space to put a GTX 1070 in this chassis to achieve the graphical performance you will expected from 3,000$ laptop. I have always defended Apple but common, you get a brand new macbook out of the box and it cant even reach its base clock speed? I honestly believe that Apple should get this laptop lineup back into the lab and start from scratch.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
23,445
29,721
Between the keyboard problems, thermal issues, and dongle hell, I think this generation of MacBook Pro will live in infamy alongside the "trash can" Mac Pro.
I’m curious how many people are actually in so-called dongle hell. Seems to me the internet (especially tech and rumor sites) are not representative of the buying public at large. Also the internet amplifies negativity; if someone is happy with the product they bought they usually don’t write about it. But when someone is not happy it’s all over message boards, social media etc.
 

OldSchoolMacGuy

Suspended
Jul 10, 2008
4,197
9,050
Apple either knew and it said "*** it, ship it.”

Or it didn’t know because it didn’t adequately performance test it.

All Apple had to do was run this test to see the issue.

Apple isn’t even trying anymore. They know we’ll buy it anyway.

You honestly think a company that large shipped a product without ever testing it? Yeahhhhhh.
 
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Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
23,445
29,721
Wrong. Other manufacturers would add 2mm of additional tickness to accommodate larger fan and would not hesitate to have the machine running loud if necessary in order to keep all components cool and functioning on top of their technical performance limitations and even us this additional space to put a GTX 1070 in this chassis to achieve the graphical performance you will expected from 3,000$ laptop. I have always defended Apple but common, you get a brand new macbook out of the box and it cant even reach its base clock speed? I honestly believe that Apple should get this laptop lineup back into the lab and start from scratch.
Who added additional thickness to accommodate this (besides maybe gaming laptops). Doesn’t the XPS have similar issues?
 

Baymowe335

Suspended
Oct 6, 2017
6,640
12,451
Why's that since everything he said was right, shouldn't a company like Apple do rigorous testing before shipping any new product?
If they did test it and they shipped it with the throttling issues anyway then it shows they don't care about quality anymore.
It's funny you think you understand all the facts and the case has been solved. No one knows anything other than there is an issue that will likely be fixed with a software update.
 

Polymorphic

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2010
164
453
But yeah, now that you mention it, this problem sounds like the whole Mac Pro debacle again, with Apple apparently having designed their laptop into a corner.

That's the parallel that I'm seeing. Different product, but crippled by the same design philosophy.

The keyboard was technically fixed with a condom, and I think users by and large have accepted the need for dongles and adaptors (or at least, it’s not a new issue).

I hope the keyboard is fixed, but it will be a while before we know for sure.
 
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LavenderCaptain

macrumors member
Nov 6, 2009
39
112
I don't understand how anyone could think this is anyone but Apple's fault... Intel sells the same chips to everyone - in volumes that make sales to Apple look like a rounding error. If there was a problem with the chips, that would be the story because EVERYONE would be screaming. Intel share prices would take a beating, etc.

Even if Apple made their own chips, the same thing could happen. This comes from somebody either not bothering to test, or the tests not being aligned to actual use... Or maybe the test unit being different from what was actually manufactured at the factory in China, in which case it's a quality control failure.

Nobody buys an i9 to just surf the web and leave it idle most of the time.
 

hawkeye_a

macrumors 68000
Jun 27, 2016
1,637
4,381
Oversights like this just give more credence to rumors that the Mac team at Apple has been gutted by resignations and retirements over the last few years.

Once upon a time, people like me paid a premium for Apple products knowing that the beta testing had already been done.

Now, I have a difficult time determining which Mac I find to be the least compromised and objectionable.

Wouldn't it be cool, if one day, Apple just made one OS, and if you own an iPhone, you plug it into a KVM dock, and you have a desktop OS...and on the go, a mobile OS?
 

flat five

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2007
5,580
2,657
newyorkcity
This is very sad, Apple is so focused on iPhones, they have forgotten the power users who actually make content and Apps for iPhones, Macs and iPads.
i think all these 'tests' we keep seeing are completely ignoring the power users / content makers.

all of these tests show someone pushing a button one time.. then talking.. as if that's the workflow of a pro.

how do these computers perform during actual work?
 

CodeJoy

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2018
400
592
Sounds like an Intel issue. Just another reason for Apple to drop them and begin using their own chips. Intel certainly isn't helping themselves here.
Intel misrepresents the power draw on the chips, and end users can and will fall for that. But engineers see through that immediately. Even just from basic rumours about the chips, it was clear to anyone that that's potentially going to cause issues with the MBP line. One would assume that Apple has solid advance information about next gen chips quite a long time before consumers do. They would have samples in advance of release. They would have access to Intel engineers if they need to ask things like, "hey, what's actually the real power draw of this chip"? So Apple would be able to fairly accurately predict the effect of these chips on the power delivery system, and would be able to do so early enough in the refresh cycle to do something about it.

Apple's problem is more of a design decision. They have decided to make the laptop thin and light, and therefore having a low cap for how much heat it can dissipate. They have also decided to limit the amount of power they can send into the laptop by removing magsafe and going with the TB3 power limit. And then Intel delivers a chip that operates outside of that power and thermal envelope. Sure, Intel has a part in it, but the design decisions are certainly on Apple.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
23,445
29,721
The keyboard was technically fixed with a condom, and I think users by and large have accepted the need for dongles and adaptors (or at least, it’s not a new issue). But yeah, now that you mention it, this problem sounds like the whole Mac Pro debacle again, with Apple apparently having designed their laptop into a corner.

The safest bet here just might be a 13” MBP with an E-GPU configuration?
Do we know how many people who have one of these machines are experiencing this issues in their day to day use of this machine? It doesn’t seem any reviews from tech sites have gone up yet so all we have are the histrionics around throttling. Clearly it’s an issue but do we know how many people are being/will be impacted by it?
 
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