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Mathriis

macrumors newbie
Jul 30, 2015
18
3
It's not an Intel issue.

Well, it kinda is. Of cause Apple could build a better chassis with the airflow needed for the CPU, but that means we will see thicker MBPs for which the customers don’t necessarily want. But if the processor didn’t generate the amount of heat as it’s doing now, it would also solve the issue.
 

IPPlanMan

macrumors 6502
Dec 25, 2009
365
1,482
This kind of logic is totally insane and would not be an option for Apple or any company.

It’s spot on.

Before it shipped, Apple either was aware of this issue or it wasn’t.

If it was aware of the issue, it shipped it anyway.

If it wasn’t aware of the issue, it’s due to inadequate testing.
You honestly think a company that large shipped a product without ever testing it? Yeahhhhhh.

Did they adequately test the MBP keyboards before shipping?

Why does the new version now have a silicone seal? I’ll wait...
 

Return Zero

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2013
1,129
3,137
Kentucky
So, this issue can likely be mitigated (at least to some extent) with a firmware update... That should be good news for everyone.

If I owned this machine, I'd still probably invest in an active cooling pad to squeeze out more performance when it's sitting plugged in on a desk.
 
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Mathriis

macrumors newbie
Jul 30, 2015
18
3
I would love to see Apple using their own chips and control the heat alongside performance.
 
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CWallace

macrumors G4
Aug 17, 2007
10,897
8,714
Seattle, WA
Who designed the board without complying with the correct specifications needed for that processor, using a voltage regulator design that is clearly insufficient for it, thus overheating? Apple.

Do we know for a fact it was Apple, or are we just assuming it is? I would not be surprised if they use a reference Intel design as the basis.
 

Polymorphic

macrumors regular
Dec 23, 2010
164
453
The "dongle hell" (peripherals issue) is hardly new... about to turn 20 years old:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3

Having owned a G3 iMac, I'd say that the difference was that it was marketed purely to consumers, not professionals. I didn't really experience dongle hell with the iMac G3, because I also had a PowerMac G3 for when I needed to do serious work with lots of external peripherals attached.

The current MacBook Pro is most definitely marketed at professionals, while somehow simultaneously ignoring the needs and desires of a substantial number of them.
 
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johnalan

macrumors 6502a
Jul 15, 2009
786
852
Dublin, Ireland
Well, it kinda is. Of cause Apple could build a better chassis with the airflow needed for the CPU, but that means we will see thicker MBPs for which the customers don’t necessarily want. But if the processor didn’t generate the amount of heat as it’s doing now, it would also solve the issue.

I actually think this can be addressed adequately using software.

I think it was a mistake in VRM config rather than a major technical thermal blunder.
 
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CodeJoy

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2018
400
592
i think all these 'tests' we keep seeing are completely ignoring the power users / content makers.

all of these tests show someone pushing a button one time.. then talking.. as if that's the workflow of a pro.

how do these computers perform during actual work?
Computers spend most of their time waiting. Waiting for user input. Waiting for data from memory. Waiting for network packages. Etc.

While the pro is busy working, I'm sure these computers are fine. It's when the pro pushes the button and goes to the water cooler that they start having problems.

But there's a practical solution to that. Just put the water cooler further away.
 

DogGone

macrumors member
Jul 18, 2007
33
39
A couple of points to mention:
1. MBP are laptops - they will always be thermally challenged. Apple seriously need to get a MacPro out that has the latest processors. I know it does not make much money for them but it will address the needs of a vocal part of the Mac community.
2. The models from the original rMBP (2012) are amazing workhorses. The overall design is great, machines are a lot faster than the earlier generations, they last for a long time and I have seen little loss in performance as the OS is updated. These are definitely the best laptops Apple have made.
3. Those who remember the months of delays of the AL Powerbook, the slow updates for the G4 processor and non existence of a G5 in a laptop will know that CPU delays are all too common.
4. The new OS is around the corner and optimization of power handling will likely address the throttling issue. Apple have often improved performance of the CPU over time as they learn how to get the best out of the unit for specific machines. I do still think it is a bit of false advertising to state that the CPU is capable of a max speed when in reality there is never a situation that can happen.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
17,342
17,793
Singapore
I don't understand how anyone could think this is anyone but Apple's fault... Intel sells the same chips to everyone - in volumes that make sales to Apple look like a rounding error. If there was a problem with the chips, that would be the story because EVERYONE would be screaming. Intel share prices would take a beating, etc.

Even if Apple made their own chips, the same thing could happen. This comes from somebody either not bothering to test, or the tests not being aligned to actual use... Or maybe the test unit being different from what was actually manufactured at the factory in China, in which case it's a quality control failure.

Nobody buys an i9 to just surf the web and leave it idle most of the time.

Raises white flag.

Good night all.
 

CWallace

macrumors G4
Aug 17, 2007
10,897
8,714
Seattle, WA
Well, it kinda is (an Intel problem). Of cause Apple could build a better chassis with the airflow needed for the CPU, but that means we will see thicker MBPs for which the customers don’t necessarily want. But if the processor didn’t generate the amount of heat as it’s doing now, it would also solve the issue.

It's quite possible Apple designed the case as thin as they did because Intel's product roadmaps at the time said that by the time Apple entered the third year of the production cycle (which seems to be how long Apple uses a chassis) the chips would be at 10nm and running a fair bit cooler than they actually are being stuck on the 14nm process.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Jul 23, 2007
7,114
1,024
Will using the method to tune this limit reduce the battery life and increase heat as well as fan noise? How many minutes will the battery life be reduced? From 10 to 4 hours?
 

asiga

macrumors 6502a
Nov 4, 2012
996
1,272
Between the keyboard problems, thermal issues, and dongle hell, I think this generation of MacBook Pro will live in infamy alongside the "trash can" Mac Pro.
The difference is that the "trash can" didn't sell well, while the 2016-and-later MBP cannot be said to be a market failure. OTOH, the Mac that should hopefully be a failure is the iMac Pro (that is, if we want to keep the hope of seeing the promised "modular Mac Pro"). If the iMac Pro sells better than the "trash can" Mac Pro, you can forget the "modular Mac Pro" (and BTW, what's the story for that modular box? did they send a guy with some bucks to the PC shop in the corner and he's been 2 years hackintoshing it at home? or what?)
 

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
23,428
29,690
Intel misrepresents the power draw on the chips, and end users can and will fall for that. But engineers see through that immediately. Even just from basic rumours about the chips, it was clear to anyone that that's potentially going to cause issues with the MBP line. One would assume that Apple has solid advance information about next gen chips quite a long time before consumers do. They would have samples in advance of release. They would have access to Intel engineers if they need to ask things like, "hey, what's actually the real power draw of this chip"? So Apple would be able to fairly accurately predict the effect of these chips on the power delivery system, and would be able to do so early enough in the refresh cycle to do something about it.

Apple's problem is more of a design decision. They have decided to make the laptop thin and light, and therefore having a low cap for how much heat it can dissipate. They have also decided to limit the amount of power they can send into the laptop by removing magsafe and going with the TB3 power limit. And then Intel delivers a chip that operates outside of that power and thermal envelope. Sure, Intel has a part in it, but the design decisions are certainly on Apple.
Or are some using laptops for a task better suited to desktops? Everyone says just make the laptop thicker (side effect would be it’s heavier) but then some will complain about that. Like they did with the 3rd gen iPad. Or like some who complained about the MBA not having a retina screen saying they don’t want a 13” MBP because it’s to heavy. Sure Marco Arment wouldn’t complain about a much thicker and heavier machine but he’s certainly in the minority. Perhaps the issue is a very vocal minority wanting a laptop to do what they should be using a desktop for.
 

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,456
i think all these 'tests' we keep seeing are completely ignoring the power users / content makers.

all of these tests show someone pushing a button one time.. then talking.. as if that's the workflow of a pro.

how do these computers perform during actual work?

These are just simple benchmark stress tests. They peg the CPU at 100% to see how the system handles the load, from both heat and performance.

This is standard methodology for testing heat and burn-in of a device, and accurately represents any load that will use 100% CPU power. For many people, this is a valid test as they do have their CPU's pegged at 100% while doing certain tasks.
 

timber

macrumors 6502a
Aug 30, 2006
815
1,368
Lisbon
Well, it kinda is. Of cause Apple could build a better chassis with the airflow needed for the CPU, but that means we will see thicker MBPs for which the customers don’t necessarily want. But if the processor didn’t generate the amount of heat as it’s doing now, it would also solve the issue.
This is a Core i9, not an i7, not an i5, not an i3, not a Pentium and not a Celeron. High end processors have higher requirements to deliver higher performance.
 
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LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,456
You honestly think a company that large shipped a product without ever testing it? Yeahhhhhh.

I'd love to agree with you on this one. It's absolutely unfathomable that a company the size of Apple would ship a device without robust valid testing


But yet, here we are... the Devices aren't out even 2 weeks and they're already being reported by a lot of people (look at the other thread on this subject where it's verifiably throttling by users on this very forum)

This is something that Apple should have spotted immediately. Any system builder worth their weight will stress test their cooling solution. And yet, Here we are, Apple's latest MBPro throttles quite aggressively.
 

Baymowe335

Suspended
Oct 6, 2017
6,640
12,451
How do you know it's going to be fixed? Apple still hasn't pronounced anything about this situation as always, unless they take a lawsuit... again.
Because Apple has a history of timely software updates and repair programs that fix issues on devices that are even well out of warranty? We live in reality and sometimes stuff happens. Apple has a history of standing behind their products.

How do you know what Apple knew or why they made the decisions they made?
 
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