Throttling in New i9 MacBook Pros Appears to be Due to Power Delivery Chip

[LordVic]

In order to believe this new theory is true, you have to still believe that the Bill Lee YouTube video was accurate...which it probably wasn't.

https://twitter.com/backlon/status/1019821375471538176

Wouldn't use Cinebench for throttling testing. Though I use it, just to get a score on my computer's OC's, I find it doesn't run long enough to really push the temps.

There are better tools for temp testing that will peg the cpu at 100% and hold it there until you stop it. These things need to run 5+ miinutes MINIMUM to accurately see how the cooling solution handles itself.

Anecdote of what I mean:
When recently overclocking my CPU, I was able to succesfully run numerous Cinebench runs without ever a failure or a throttle. over and over again. So I figured the OC was great.

fired up a program that uses 100% CPU... and after 5 minutes, the system came to a crashing halt.

Cinebench is nothing more than a benchmarking tool. NOT a stress test

 

[Baymowe335]

Why was it shipped like this in the first place?

We live in the real world and it's not always perfect? Why are you so worried? It's not like Apple doesn't provide software updates and launch repair programs.

"Oh, they shouldn't have shipped it like that in the first place. Their quality control is crap. Who is testing this stuff?"

Give me a break. Apple ships over 300M products per year and do a damn good job. Stuff happens. Apple fixes it. End of story.

You also have no idea what is actually wrong from a technical perspective, what Apple knew, what capacity is Intel at fault, and why the decision was made. Maybe they made a mistake? Maybe Intel made a mistake? You people can't think Apple is going to ship junk on purpose if it risks their brand. That is INSANE and they would not do it.

 

[DNichter]

You need to have a license to build x86 chips, and the only two that are issued are to AMD and Intel.

Then don't build x86 chips.

 

[Baymowe335]

It’s spot on.

Before it shipped, Apple either was aware of this issue or it wasn’t.

If it was aware of the issue, it shipped it anyway.

If it wasn’t aware of the issue, it’s due to inadequate testing.


Did they adequately test the MBP keyboards before shipping?

Why does the new version now have a silicone seal? I’ll wait...

Yeah, case closed. Man, Apple should hire you. What an asset you'd be!

Again, this is reality.

 

[CheesePuff]

Then don't build x86 chips.

I think that you (and the others who suggest this route) highly underestimate the effort to move to ARM for macOS and all third party applications.

 

[fatalogic]

Wouldn't it be cool, if one day, Apple just made one OS, and if you own an iPhone, you plug it into a KVM dock, and you have a desktop OS...and on the go, a mobile OS?

That’s my dream for the iPad Pro. As it stands right now it’s a pretty perfect laptop replacemt outside software development for me.

 

[macduke]

It feels like a group within Apple is purposefully sabotaging the MacBook Pro. They want to slowly make customers so fed up with it that they won't care about it any more. I'm worried after several more software and hardware upgrade cycles they'll tout the iPad Pro as a "MacBook Pro replacement" and will probably list the following reasons:

• MacBooks get so hot
• MacBook performance gets throttled
  
• MacBooks are noisy
• MacBooks use outdated Intel chips from a bygone era
• MacBooks use hardware keyboards which are prone to failure
• MacBooks are so thick and ugly
• MacBooks worked great back in the day but a new time has come

The MacBooks are the best selling Macs. If Apple can get people to hate them, then they can say that continuing all Mac development makes little sense and move forward with something else. But Steve Jobs had it right when he said that Macs are trucks and iPhone/iPad mobile devices are cars. Sometimes you just need a big ass truck to get crap done.

 

[IPPlanMan]

We live in the real world and it's not always perfect? Why are you so worried? It's not like Apple doesn't provide software updates and launch repair programs.

"Oh, they shouldn't have shipped it like that in the first place. Their quality control is crap. Who is testing this stuff?"

Give me a break. Apple ships over 300M products per year and do a damn good job. Stuff happens. Apple fixes it. End of story.

You also have no idea what is actually wrong from a technical perspective, what Apple knew, what capacity is Intel at fault, and why the decision was made. Maybe they made a mistake? Maybe Intel made a mistake? You people can't think Apple is going to ship junk on purpose if it risks their brand. That is INSANE and they would not do it.

300M products is irrelevant if an entire product line is flawed.

Apple’s entire product universe can fit on a dining table. They have further narrowed their product offerings by EOL’ing AirPort and Time Capsules.

They have hundreds of billions in cash.

“Stuff”? This isn’t excusable.

 

[DNichter]

Can you explain how pls?

Explanation below. Intel developed the power delivery chip. Apple certainly plays a factor here as well, but I still think it doesn't bode well for the future of Intel in Apple machines.

"The user goes on to explain that one of the internal power limits set for the device may not be appropriate for the power draw of the CPU and identical to previous MacBook Pro models, causing the power delivery chip (known as a voltage regulation module, or VRM) to report an over power condition that forces the clock of the CPU down to scale back power. This sets up the same conditions to allow throttling to occur once again."

 

[Michael Scrip]

Of cause Apple could build a better chassis with the airflow needed for the CPU, but that means we will see thicker MBPs for which the customers don’t necessarily want.

Right now... ALL of Apple's laptops are "thin" including the supposed "pro" laptops. You have no choice but to buy a thin Macintosh laptop.

Macbook - THIN
Macbook Air - THIN
Macbook Pro 13" - THIN
Macbook Pro 15" - THIN

It's too bad Apple can't have at least one laptop that prioritizes horsepower/airflow instead of looks. A little extra thickness wouldn't be that bad if it serves a purpose.

Seriously... below are what Apple considers pro machines. Can a laptop be TOO SKINNY...?

 

[Rocko99991]

Seems a bit like the iPhone throttling.

 

[johnalan]

Any guesses on when the fix will be rolled out? I’m thinking sooner rather than later.

 

[DNichter]

Intel misrepresents the power draw on the chips, and end users can and will fall for that. But engineers see through that immediately. Even just from basic rumours about the chips, it was clear to anyone that that's potentially going to cause issues with the MBP line. One would assume that Apple has solid advance information about next gen chips quite a long time before consumers do. They would have samples in advance of release. They would have access to Intel engineers if they need to ask things like, "hey, what's actually the real power draw of this chip"? So Apple would be able to fairly accurately predict the effect of these chips on the power delivery system, and would be able to do so early enough in the refresh cycle to do something about it.

Apple's problem is more of a design decision. They have decided to make the laptop thin and light, and therefore having a low cap for how much heat it can dissipate. They have also decided to limit the amount of power they can send into the laptop by removing magsafe and going with the TB3 power limit. And then Intel delivers a chip that operates outside of that power and thermal envelope. Sure, Intel has a part in it, but the design decisions are certainly on Apple.

Good explanation. Thank you, I agree. Apple definitely has some responsibility in this as well, but I don't see them making thicker laptops. I think they are better off creating their own chips for their own designs.

 

[1050792]

Because Apple has a history of timely software updates and repair programs that fix issues on devices that are even well out of warranty? We live in reality and sometimes stuff happens. Apple has a history of standing behind their products.

How do you know what Apple knew or why they made the decisions they made?

Because they released a defective product with or without testing and you are still defending them?

 

[IPPlanMan]

Yeah, case closed. Man, Apple should hire you. What an asset you'd be!

Again, this is reality.

They should hire someone who actually knows to test a device by ramping it up to full usage.

This reeks of a “just don’t use it like that” attitude on Apple’s part.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Oh just pants the whole damn mess. I mean it's a freakin laptop, come on. I'd expect this sort of nonsense from a first year run of something totally new, like a pro tablet or some totally new form factor, but rev after rev the MBPs are just perennial problemchildren now. Starting to wonder if Apple would replace their entire executive team with a bunch of kids instead.

 

[CodeJoy]

Or are some using laptops for a task better suited to desktops? Everyone says just make the laptop thicker (side effect would be it’s heavier) but then some will complain about that. Like they did with the 3rd gen iPad. Or like some who complained about the MBA not having a retina screen saying they don’t want a 13” MBP because it’s to heavy. Sure Marco Arment wouldn’t complain about a much thicker and heavier machine but he’s certainly in the minority. Perhaps the issue is a very vocal minority wanting a laptop to do what they should be using a desktop for.

I think people have some very unrealistic expectations for sure. I think a large part of the success of MBP since it first launched, but also these latest models, is that they are thin and light. That's one of the key selling points, that's something people like and want (maybe silently) and that's why they sell. It's also something I personally like. A lot of people want thicker and bigger MBPs with more ports, but that's not me.

However, I think when paradoxes like these happen -- good lord, Intel is releasing a chip that is outside of the power and thermal envelope that we've committed to, what to do! -- that's where I'd like to see some innovation. I'd like to see Apple create some magic that allows them to get a bit more power out of that envelope than their competition. Better cooling, better power delivery, maybe better components or manufacturing, maybe better software -- whatever it takes to make the seemingly impossible happen. And they're not doing it.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Measurements clearly show this fixes the problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Maybe you're just in denial. Apple ****ed up hard.

That could all be true.

I barely read the article. My MBP is on the UPS truck today for delivery actually.

I mainly want the noisy keyboard to be quieter. Also I have a skipping 66 key - as you can see if I press 6 I often get double keystrokes. I didn't want to send my unit in for repairs, so I bought a new one and will be erasing this one and selling it promptly, and they can fix it then.

As for the performance and heat issues - as I say - maybe you are right and the article is right - not sure. Not much I can do about it - so I don't care. I get the latest bestest machines always and don't have to worry too much.

My comment was mainly directed at the take apart guys - I know how hard it is to really know for sure what is going on with a circuit. But the dude should simply send in a resume to Apple - probably pays more than writing take apart articles. No denial here. If there is a problem - I hope it can be fixed with firmware etc. In any case, I'll just buy the next one that comes out too as soon as it is released

 

[CodeJoy]

In 6 months, they will sell you a non-throttled version.

There will be an iFridge that connects to TB3.

In fact, someone might think that the purpose of the eGPU they sell is a way for them to channel some heat out via TB3

 

[nvmls]

We live in the real world and it's not always perfect? Why are you so worried? It's not like Apple doesn't provide software updates and launch repair programs.

"Oh, they shouldn't have shipped it like that in the first place. Their quality control is crap. Who is testing this stuff?"

Give me a break. Apple ships over 300M products per year and do a damn good job. Stuff happens. Apple fixes it. End of story.

You also have no idea what is actually wrong from a technical perspective, what Apple knew, what capacity is Intel at fault, and why the decision was made. Maybe they made a mistake? Maybe Intel made a mistake? You people can't think Apple is going to ship junk on purpose if it risks their brand. That is INSANE and they would not do it.

Right, because greedy corps like Apple make it to the top being only transparent, so much stock price is at it's highest and iconic Mac product line at it's worst. You are funny, please keep embarrassing yourself.

 

[Infiniti_Z]

Would be fun to see a MacBook user satisfaction survey over 10 years or so (for long time MacBook users) My guess is the data is not in favor of Apple... But hey! All the young hip and rich YouTube people are probably happy anyway. They dont know better and have no problem dropping thousands of dollars on a broken computer as long as it’s a MacBook!

 

[Sefstah]

Sounds like an Intel issue. Just another reason for Apple to drop them and begin using their own chips. Intel certainly isn't helping themselves here.

Its not an IntelBook. It’s a MacBook.

 

[leman]

This news item is WRONG. Its not primarily due to limitation of power delivery chip (not many laptops can supply 100Watt of sustained power to the CPU alone), but because Apple set an unrealistically high TDP of the CPU (at 100Watt instead of expected 45Watt).

 

[Baymowe335]

300M products is irrelevant if an entire product line is flawed.

Apple’s entire product universe can fit on a dining table. They have further narrowed their product offerings by EOL’ing AirPort and Time Capsules.

They have hundreds of billions in cash.

“Stuff”? This isn’t excusable.

The entire product line isn't flawed. We are only talking about certain MB Pros and this issue can likely be fixed with some tweaking.

See how you're overreacting?

 

[bobbie424242]

Old news.