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Thunderbolt 3 and USB Converge With New 40 Gbps USB4 Specification

jdiamond said:
This is wonderful news! Of course, by mid-2019, Thunderbolt 4 will be ready. I wonder if Thunderbolt will always be one generation ahead of USB, or if they'll full merge the two standards?
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One would hope that they could design a connector that will last multiple generations even if the electronics behind it change.

No more dongles, or at least stick with something longer.

Will my ADB keyboard work with this though? Or the disc ][?
 
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haruhiko said:
USB4.0 Gen 1 = USB 3.0 = USB 3.1 Gen 1
USB4.0 Gen 2 = USB 3.1 Gen 2
USB4.0 Gen 3 = USB 3.2 20Gbps
USB4.0 Gen 4 HyperSpeed 40 = Thunderbolt 3
Click to expand...
I can already predict the future:
USB 4.2 Gen 1x1 = USB4.0 Gen 1 = USB 3.0 = USB 3.1 Gen 1
USB 4.2 Gen 1x2 = USB4.0 Gen 2 = USB 3.1 Gen 2
USB 4.2 Gen 2x2 = USB4.0 Gen 3 = USB 3.2 20Gbps
USB 4.2 Gen 3 = USB4.0 Gen 4 HyperSpeed 40 = Thunderbolt 3
USB 4.2 Gen 4 Ultraspeed = Thunderbolt 4
 
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Hmm.. so does this help with a potential ARM transition? Apple could now make ARM based computers that use Thunderbolt 3/USB 4?
 
MacRumors said:



The USB Promoter Group standards body today announced the pending release of a new USB4 specification.

macbookairusbc-800x64.jpg

USB4 converges the Thunderbolt and USB protocols as part of Intel's goal to make Thunderbolt available on a royalty-free basis, which should result in wider and cheaper availability of Thunderbolt accessories like docks and eGPUs.

As USB4 is based on Thunderbolt 3, it offers data transfer speeds up to 40 Gbps, which is twice as fast as the bandwidth of the latest USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 specification. USB4's underlying Thunderbolt 3 protocol also means the specification supports up to two 4K displays or one 5K display over a single cable.

The simplest way to view USB4 is as Thunderbolt 3, but royalty free for manufacturers. Intel will continue to offer Thunderbolt 3 on a standalone basis with a few advantages over USB4, including more support with reference designs and technical issues for manufacturers, according to The Verge.

USB4 will use the USB-C connector design and will be backwards compatible with USB 3.2 and USB 2.0 specifications.

The USB4 specification is on track to be published around the middle of 2019. Over 50 companies are actively participating in the final stages of review of the draft specification, which should include Apple, Intel, and Microsoft, but it might take a few years until the first USB4 devices are released.

Article Link: Thunderbolt 3 and USB Converge With New 40 Gbps USB4 Specification
Click to expand...

I'm glad none of this has the potential to be confusing :p
 
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Rocketman said:
Let's see if I am reading this right as a mere spectator. Apple and Intel came up with a Thunderbolt standard, and evolved to 1, 2, 3. Apple and presumably Intel and others adopt the USB3 plug physical object as the future TB and MDP standard.

USB 4 (4) uses USB-C physical plug and TB3 standard and they are adopted as an industry standard, and prior to that Apple and other TB partners charged a large premium for compatibility assurances, cables, boards, etc. Apple and Intel have made bank and now that standard will be everywhere.

The TB optical has yet to see wide adoption.

Close?
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Close. But I do believe TB3 abandoned the optical spec in lieu of power delivery (not present in TB2/TB1).

Corning Glass: https://www.corning.com/optical-cab...e/en/products/thunderbolt-optical-cables.html
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Marcus PM said:
I guess this is the demise of the SCSI. ;)
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Not so fast, dude. Never lose faith/s

There is USB Attached SCSI (UAS):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Attached_SCSI
 
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It would be nice if we will be able to use older computers with Thunderbolt 3 to get full 40 gig speed on USB4. Those USB4 devices will be a lot cheaper than Thunderbolt 3 devices. Guess we will see how that goes.
 
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lunarworks said:
I can't tell you how bitter my coworker was when RS-232 started disappearing from laptops.
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You might be amazed to find how often RS232 continues to be used in engineering environments to communicate with modern devices like laser modules. Not to mention RS485 and all the avionics ARINC communication standards. Also many of the garden variety USB to RS232 adapters that are available through regular retailers end up being unreliable.
 
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mikethemartian said:
You might be amazed to find how often RS232 continues to be used in engineering environments to communicate with modern devices like laser modules. Not to mention RS485 and all the avionics ARINC communication standards. Also many of the garden variety USB to RS232 adapters that are available through regular retailers end up being unreliable.
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Oh, I know. Last year I had to use it to fix a firewall that had a bad update and couldn't be accessed by any other means. I used a 10 year old laptop from the junk storage to get into it. But these are special use cases, and the interface software for some of them likely won't even work on modern OSes.
 
jimothyGator said:
I doubt it. I think that Intel, if not Apple as well, has learned the benefits of a single cable connection. USB Type C is the result of that learning. They'll stick with it for as long possible, until it's physically impossible to increase the bandwidth over the same wiring.

I'll place a bet with you: If USB 5 doesn't use the USB Type C connector, I owe you a beer. Bookmark this page and get back to me.
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So much for USB being "Universal". USB-C was finally feeling ultimate, but they always find a way to keep things complicated.

Thunderbolt started out as an optical cable, and then moved to electrical. The optical option remains available, but is not very common. The Thunderbolt connector, shared by USB-C, should have been designed truly universal, supporting both electrical and optical in one. That would have been ideal and truly future-proofed.
 
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Ifti said:
So USB4 is just the same as TB3, just royalty free for manufacturers and peripheral makers?

So does that mean my Thunderbolt 3 drives can be classed as USB4??
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USB4 isn't just the same ast TB3. Intel's Thuderbolt 3 implementation only have USB 3.1 gen 2 weaved into them. This USB4 is a "merger" of USB 3.2 and Thunderbolt 3. The current TBv3 implementation do not do USB 3.2 So therefore can't be implemented USB 4 implementations.

Frankly, there aren't any deployed 3.2 implementation out there yet. The USB 3.2 contoller chips are just coming to market and the systems with them won't arrive in volume until at least Summer ( or later); 2H19 (2nd half 2019) .

USB 4 is something that probably has a 2021 date on it in terms of real systems at volume. USB IF group started chirping about 3.2 in 2017

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11667/usb32-update

3.2 demo implementations didn't come until 2018

"..In May 2018, Synopsys demonstrated the first USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 connection, where a Windows PC was connected to a storage device, reaching a speed of 1.6 GB/s average. ..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#USB_3.2

systems not coming until 2019
"... according to the USB-IF at MWC 2019, the technology will finally come to fruition this year. ..."
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14027/usb-32-at-20-gbs-coming-to-highend-desktops-this-year
 
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So, if I’m reading this correctly
1) USB protocols/standards and Thunderbolt protocols/standards will be merged.

2) The connector type for the multitude of USB connectors will be simplified down to just a USB-C connector

am I understanding this in basic end-user terms/impact correctly

if so, this seems like a great win!
 
Too many "optional" features make it easy for lazy manufacturers to claim compliance while only providing bare minimum functionality. The DisplayPort standard also has the same issue (see MacOS and DisplayPort MST support). This is most likely the result of the USB and DisplayPort standards associations catering to lobbyists sent by the device and cable manufacturers. If the standards associations really want to help consumers, they should tighten the standards and make more features mandatory to weed out lazy manufacturers.
 
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kemal said:
Thunderbolt 3 is an alternate mode for USB C. So will the USB C spec differ from the USB 4 spec, other than the lack of TB royalty payment? This is a cluster.
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Ummm ... and I know this has been said *many* times: USB C IS ONLY A CONNECTOR SPEC! It has NOTHING to do with the protocol running over the wire. You'll notice there are USB+LETTER and USB+NUMBER specs. USB+LETTER = CONNECTOR spec, while USB+NUMBER = wire protocol spec, and they are INDEPENDENT of each other. Sorry for the rant, but every time someone posts this misinformation it just continues to confuse those that are more casual tech users.
 
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