It's a shame that something like this always happens. Tiger is cheap for what it is, and it'll only be a matter of time before Apple has to put all the security keys on it that Microsoft has.
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Tiger GM Leaked?
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Serials are silly.
Even in the 80's when I was copying floppies from my friend's illegal copies, the serial number was nothing more than a nuisance , usually written right on the floppy itself.
Apple adding a serial to Tiger in hopes to stop it's distros won't have much effect, as the serial will just be included with the download.
Remote activation is also a pain for users who don't have local internet, and can, like all counter-piracy measures, be
skipped.
Apple should just do what they're doing now - no countermeasures. Even if you've installed a pirate copy of a $130 piece of software, you must've bought a $1500 piece of equipment from Apple to be able to run it in the first place.
(I'm legal, though. Got a family pack coming which I'll be installing after watching HHGTTG)
Even in the 80's when I was copying floppies from my friend's illegal copies, the serial number was nothing more than a nuisance , usually written right on the floppy itself.
Apple adding a serial to Tiger in hopes to stop it's distros won't have much effect, as the serial will just be included with the download.
Remote activation is also a pain for users who don't have local internet, and can, like all counter-piracy measures, be
skipped.
Apple should just do what they're doing now - no countermeasures. Even if you've installed a pirate copy of a $130 piece of software, you must've bought a $1500 piece of equipment from Apple to be able to run it in the first place.
(I'm legal, though. Got a family pack coming which I'll be installing after watching HHGTTG)
Tiger download
I dont see the problem with downloading it, if and only if you have preordered a copy already, then its just like a test-drive.
I dont see the problem with downloading it, if and only if you have preordered a copy already, then its just like a test-drive.
patseguin said:
I agree. I was thinking of DLing it... but... I decided that I can wait a measily 10 days. I preordered it... I already have 425 installed. ^_^ I'm gonna delete it once I get my retail vers in the mail next week! ^_^
patseguin said:
As long as the piracy doesn't get too far out of hand, I'm sure Apple doesn't care too much. After all, you have to own Apple hardware to use the OS. Apple has never required a serial number for any of their OS releases and I've always felt that it's because Apple knows that although some people will cheat and install off someone else's disc, it's keeping them on the Mac platform and may even entice them to buy newer hardware to take advantage of new software features. If I let a friend install Tiger on his old G3 iMac, it will only serve to remind him that he needs a newer Mac that can handle CoreImage, iChat 2, etc.
hands up; i would download it for testing. if i didn't like it (DOUBTFUL!) i'd wait until 10.4.3, or if i did like it well... apple would be getting my £60.
frankly i think its wrong of Apple to charge the brits more than the americans for Tiger. if i had the download speed right now i'd get the leaked version and just 'donate' the american equivalent price of Tiger and be done with it.
frankly i think its wrong of Apple to charge the brits more than the americans for Tiger. if i had the download speed right now i'd get the leaked version and just 'donate' the american equivalent price of Tiger and be done with it.
patseguin said:By the way, illegal ripping groups are "highly regarded"? That's like saying criminals are highly regarded.
I live in England so software piracy here is seen in the same way as it is in the other highly developed and industrialised countries. And a good thing too since the copyright serves a purpose beneficial to us all. However, if I were in charge of the software/textbook policy of a poor/developing country, I would certainly see it in my interest to break copyright at every opportunity where it served the national interest.
Look at it this way (numbers fabricated merely to illustrate the point): you have 5,000 medical students to train in a year and have $5,000,000. Lab equipment will cost you about $4,999,000, leaving $1,000. On the other hand, if you decided to get the software licenses for all the software those students would be using, that would be, let us say, a minimum of $200 per head, totalling $1,000,000. What am I going to do? Skimp on the lab equipment (which can't be done without) and go the "proper" way on the software? I think not. I would simply buy the irreplaceable hardware and spend the remaining $1,000 on pirated software.
To quote a real example: when the left leaning Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto (the dictator) came to power in Pakistan, he found the educational institutions were spending a significant portion of their funding buying textbooks from, for example, the United States. He simply stopped the process and started buying one sample of each book needed and then printing copies wholesale, "pirating" the works thereby. Yet another example is China, where sometimes "exact" replicas of tried and tested Western items are released under Chinese labels: one such example was a certain Volkswagon car I believe.
Now I am in no way "justifying" (as if such a word could be used in "International Law" anyway) what these states do: I am merely pointing out that the age old mechanism of "The strong do what they can, the weak do what they must." is the cause. And this has been fully acknowledged by companies in the industrialised countries. You see, in order to enforce copyright, one needs the money to fund that level of enforcement. Is a country like Rwanda, are the police going to be more worried about the next murder or somebody pirating the next version of Windows or OS X, much as it may break our own hearts? Therefore what companies like Microsoft do is sign bulk deals with such states authorising legitimate copies at, say, 50% of their value in the West in order to try and stem piracy. If the state sees that such a deal is in its interest (i.e. stopping piracy will, say, improve relations with the company's host state, like the US for MS), then it will take the offer. If it isn't, and it can afford to thumb its nose at us, then it won't.
Generally, as countries become more industrialised, high tech and therefore prosperous, it becomes increasingly worth their while to enforce copyright. Case in point: India has huge demand for cheap drugs. There is absolutely no way the Indians want to pay high fees everytime they fabricate a, for example, UK patented drug. So the UK cuts a deal whereby India is allowed to manufacture large amounts of the patented drug, paying a nominal fee instead. The alternative is that the UK will receive nothing and India will simply pirate the drug.
Simply, copyright only works when it is in everyone's interest to enforce the control on what is otherwise a widely available item/idea. Otherwise, demand (and in some cases, national interest) always overwhelms any "moral" considerations. Power to compel others to enforce the copyright is therefore the key, not the moral imperative of "I have the patent, you cannot use it.": like any other resource, IP has to be defended. As an extreme example, if the UK was at war with Russia, and we obtained a Russian copyrighted program which could make our planes fly 200% faster, I don't think we'd hesitate twice. Well, the marketplace is every bit a battlefield where rule of law has to be established by force if necessary.
I don't think I would trust getting something as important as my OS from pirates. Seems like a little too much could go wrong.
I can understand (although I don't condone) getting an app. But the OS? Seems like a risk to me!
I can understand (although I don't condone) getting an app. But the OS? Seems like a risk to me!
kneeslasher said:
Wow, that was incredibly short sighted of him. That is why these third world countries are so poor - they don't concentrate on the fundamentals. Raising children to have respect for other people's property is far, far more important than having the latest textbook.
patseguin said:I just wish they would seed it already to us ADC members.
Same here. Registered dev running 425, checking ADC site several times a day for GM
Its sad how people justify things, "Its just getting it early, I already ordered a legal copy." "Its too expensive, they shouldn't be charging that much." "Its a demo, I want to see if its good before I get it."
If something is illegal, ITS ILLEGAL, no matter what you say about any legal activity you are doing or anything else.
I honestly believe this (not my quote) is the mentality of people a large number of people, and it sickens me:
"No it isnt [illegal]. I don't want it to be illegal, therefor, it isn't. That's the way it works!"
If something is illegal, ITS ILLEGAL, no matter what you say about any legal activity you are doing or anything else.
I honestly believe this (not my quote) is the mentality of people a large number of people, and it sickens me:
"No it isnt [illegal]. I don't want it to be illegal, therefor, it isn't. That's the way it works!"
OMG^1000
I know this goes against MR rules but I have to say this...That's just blindingly stupid. A moral judgment made by other nations is more important then the ability of your population to be able to think critically? Which is in and of itself a basis for the ability to form a moral judgment. If you can't read, write, know your history, if you don't have the fundamentals of an education you won't have the mental faculties to make a sound judgment on what is right and wrong. Its not so black and white as murder. IP is not a simple issue. If you think it is I would suggest you tap a IP attorney on the shoulder someone and have a talk with them.
I suppose you wouldn't mind filling the Supreme Court with justices that have a 5th grade education. God. That comment makes the mind reel. What would have happened if the Gutenberg press got derailed because of IP issues?!? This world would have only an upper class that could go to college, read, write, even learn basic mathematics. God. That. Sorry Im just going to sit here in stunned silence....................................
broken_keyboard said:
I know this goes against MR rules but I have to say this...That's just blindingly stupid. A moral judgment made by other nations is more important then the ability of your population to be able to think critically? Which is in and of itself a basis for the ability to form a moral judgment. If you can't read, write, know your history, if you don't have the fundamentals of an education you won't have the mental faculties to make a sound judgment on what is right and wrong. Its not so black and white as murder. IP is not a simple issue. If you think it is I would suggest you tap a IP attorney on the shoulder someone and have a talk with them.
I suppose you wouldn't mind filling the Supreme Court with justices that have a 5th grade education. God. That comment makes the mind reel. What would have happened if the Gutenberg press got derailed because of IP issues?!? This world would have only an upper class that could go to college, read, write, even learn basic mathematics. God. That. Sorry Im just going to sit here in stunned silence....................................
i want to know how Apple can sell Tiger in the US for $129 (£67) and the exact same thing costs £88 in the UK. £21 more.
fairplay the UK student discounted Tiger costs around £60, but how much less will the US one cost?
if i could pay the US student price for Tiger, i would buy it right now. but because its about £20 more i have to think more about it, and if i really need it
fairplay the UK student discounted Tiger costs around £60, but how much less will the US one cost?
if i could pay the US student price for Tiger, i would buy it right now. but because its about £20 more i have to think more about it, and if i really need it
Well aren't you all high and mighty.
Let me guess. You've never gone over the speed limit in your life. ANYWHERE. When it goes from 45 to 35 you slam the brakes on as soon as you cross that line. You've never crossed the road in an inappropriate location. (e.g. jaywalking.) You've never left work 5 minutes early but clocked out as a full day's shift. Basically you've never done anything wrong. EVER. You are the epitome of following the rules.Look nothing in life is hard and fast. Nor should rules be because when rules are so engrained, so strict, and severe that they can't bend with the times is when you get problems like we are seeing with our culture today. Do you honestly believe that the DMCA is a good law that needs to be followed to the letter of the law? If so then you better take down just about every news agency on the planet because by the DMCA they have disseminated information on some of their news articles on how to bypass copyright protection on music CD's. (e.g. Using a black permanent marker to blot out the DRM section of the CD.)
As for Tiger. Any lawyers out there feel free to straighten me out. But this is how Ive read it on arstechnica.
If you've purchased a copy of Tiger its not illegal. If Apple comes after you for theft and sicks the police on you if you can prove that your credit card has been charged for a copy of Tiger I dont believe that can come after you for theft. At that point you are basically breaking your agreement with Apple and as such opens yourself up to civil penalties. Its no different then downloading a game from the net if the CD went defective. The big deal here is the release date. *shrugs* Dont know. You aren't breaking the law...you are breaking Apple's licensing terms.
Like activation and serial numbers prevented xp from being pirated. Yeah right no one pirates xp. Windows update still works with the pirated version inspite of microsoft's tries to stop it. If anything this release is NOT a retail dvd. It may be the final build but who knows what extras apple sticks on the retail. Now pirates will be confused between a developer dvd and any actual retail dvd's. Personally I think retail dvd's are the only way to go. If I want a buggy OS I just use my PC's.
raggedjimmi said:
Does that UK price include any built-in tax (i.e. VAT)? I'm fairly certain that there's no software tariff between the US and the UK, but I'm not familiar enough with US/UK trade policies to provide anything more than speculation and more questions.
I haven't looked too far into it, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the Canadians are getting a better deal on OSX than anyone, sort of like they do with iTunes...
[EDIT: I just checked, and the Canadian Apple store is selling Tiger for $149CAD, which comes in at just a hair more than $120USD.]
Same boat. I expect the GM seed by this weekend, hopefully. Of course the download site will be hammered, and it will take forever to get it. If I'm remembering correctly, the Panther GM (7B85) was made available about a week ahead of the retail release.broken_keyboard said:Same here. Registered dev running 425, checking ADC site several times a day for GM
SiliconAddict said:Ja Di ksw said:
Well aren't you all high and mighty.
Look nothing in life is hard and fast. Nor should rules be because when rules are so engrained, so strict, and severe that they can't bend with the times is when you get problems like we are seeing with our culture today. Do you honestly believe that the DMCA is a good law that needs to be followed to the letter of the law? If so then you better take down just about every news agency on the planet because by the DMCA they have disseminated information on some of their news articles on how to bypass copyright protection on music CD's. (e.g. Using a black permanent marker to blot out the DRM section of the CD.)
As for Tiger. Any lawyers out there feel free to straighten me out. But this is how Ive read it on arstechnica.
If you've purchased a copy of Tiger its not illegal. If Apple comes after you for theft and sicks the police on you if you can prove that your credit card has been charged for a copy of Tiger I dont believe that can come after you for theft. At that point you are basically breaking your agreement with Apple and as such opens yourself up to civil penalties. Its no different then downloading a game from the net if the CD went defective. The big deal here is the release date. *shrugs* Dont know. You aren't breaking the law...you are breaking Apple's licensing terms.
Like I said, "I don't want it to be illegal, therefor, it isn't."