they are paying for it. anyone can walk in and buy it at 29 bucks.
what is this stealing you are talking about?
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Tiger --> Snow Leopard = $29!!
- Thread starter TonyBaloney
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they are paying for it. anyone can walk in and buy it at 29 bucks.
what is this stealing you are talking about?
Several people have posted about alleged EULA violations but (so far at least) no one's bothered to post the specific requirements outlined in the Snow Leopard EULA.
Since I assume those who are claiming this is violation of the EULA have read and have a copy of the EULA, would you please post the relevant section of the EULA regarding the upgrade requirements for the edification of those of us who are not among the select group of people who received an advance copy of Snow Leopard.
Thanks.
Since I assume those who are claiming this is violation of the EULA have read and have a copy of the EULA, would you please post the relevant section of the EULA regarding the upgrade requirements for the edification of those of us who are not among the select group of people who received an advance copy of Snow Leopard.
Thanks.
Did y'all see this yet!? This is awesome for Tiger users! (Like me!
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._leopard_disc_will_install_on_tiger_macs.html
Except if you want to upgrade iLife and iWork to the 09 versions you really save some if you get the package deal... then SL costs something like $9. I think, if not, never mind.
Apple probably figure they can trust its customers to pay for the box set if you own tiger or buy the 29 dollar disk if you own leopard.
But when the numbers come out they will probably figure out that next time the wont trust their customers and throw in checks etc.. ala microsoft.
Now you know why Microsoft does all those WGA and serial numbers, 3 strikes your out and have to call a 1-800 number.
Because in general people will just steal **** if they can get away with it and you need to put down the lockdown to keep the general public honest.
So in a few years when Apple Genuine Advantage shows up, no one should bitch about it.
But when the numbers come out they will probably figure out that next time the wont trust their customers and throw in checks etc.. ala microsoft.
Now you know why Microsoft does all those WGA and serial numbers, 3 strikes your out and have to call a 1-800 number.
Because in general people will just steal **** if they can get away with it and you need to put down the lockdown to keep the general public honest.
So in a few years when Apple Genuine Advantage shows up, no one should bitch about it.
i actually don't see the problem here, there's a lot of bitchy whiners here that seem to be missing something very obvious and blatant
most people with tiger on their system have it legally, we can all go to apple and buy a £29 upgrade legally
then when i get home oh look i can upgrade my tiger even though apple advised me not to do it, if apple really were that bothered about it they wouldn't rely on peoples trust
do some of you people honestly think apple hadn't thought about this? a multi-billion dollar company didn't realise that they can't rely completely on peoples trust? are you really that stupid?
most people with tiger on their system have it legally, we can all go to apple and buy a £29 upgrade legally
then when i get home oh look i can upgrade my tiger even though apple advised me not to do it, if apple really were that bothered about it they wouldn't rely on peoples trust
do some of you people honestly think apple hadn't thought about this? a multi-billion dollar company didn't realise that they can't rely completely on peoples trust? are you really that stupid?
Unfortunately 95% of the human race are so incredibly stupid and / or selfish that they fully believe they deserve everything, should get it now, for free, and be able do whatever they like whenever they like ... and stuff everyone else.
What these fools don't understand is that Snow Loepard is an upgrade to Leopard ... hell, it's even in the name. Therefore people who already own Leopard get a cheap upgrade and those who don't own Leopard pay more (and get some extras basically for free). This is no different to most other software companies who often give owners of the previous version a cheaper upgrade pack than those of older versions.
And Apple not securing the {beep} out of the software with all sorts of copy protection nonsense does NOT even remotely equate to them "allowing" people to pirate it or install it against the agreement.
Anyone continuing to post that they are "allowed" to do this is simply a selfish greedy scum who should be banned just like anyone condoning piracy in law-abiding forums! It is that simple and anyone with more than a single braincell knows it.
It's almost as if you're trying to wind people up, isn't it!
In my case I have a couple of macs at home, but only one of them is an Intel one, so I'm getting the £25 upgrade disc.
At some point in the future I may get another mac; either a new one, or a certified refurbished one from Apple. If I get a refurbished one from Apple and it comes with Leopard I guess that strictly I should buy another copy of Snow Leopard to install on it. The temptation to just use the one I have then would be fairly strong, though.
The alternative is to buy a family pack now, even though I have only a single computer I can use it on at the moment, and may be the case forever, as I don't yet know what I'll be doing in the future, or when.
No, they aren't. The $29 upgrade price is for people who own legitimate licenses for 10.5, and only those people. The single use license for 10.4 users is only available as part of the box set. Multiple installations requires the family pack version of the applicable package. All of the discs are physically and digitally identical.
They're not misinforming anyone.
http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx106.pdf
The relevant paragraph for this ongoing question is 2(c).
That the disc itself doesn't check is not authorization or consent to do as you please with the software, and the reason people find the rampant dishonesty so repulsive is that, frankly, it is. People have all kinds of absurd rationalizations and justifications for unlawfully acquiring software, but when a corporation goes out of its way not to impose onerous checks, serials, and activation then propriety demands that users respond with the same level of respect. The only way to get rid of DRM and activation schemes is to demonstrate good faith. Those who pirate software, and do so blatantly and for nothing but selfish reasons, simply undermine any arguments that vendors should trust their customers.
When a company demonstrates that level of trust and receives deception in return, it's proof that people aren't acting out of principle, but simply out of greed, and some people take particular offense to that, just like people take offense to cutting in line, or riding merge lanes to the end and just expecting a space to open for them at the last second, or cheating on exams.
Traffic management works best when people do exactly this, and cars merge one at a time from each lane. Problems start when one side of the merge lane believes that it has a higher privilege than another, and tries to disrupt the natural order of merging.
No, that's simply not true. The lane that ends has a legal requirement to yield to traffic in the other lanes. The continuous lane does have a higher privilege.
Traffic management works best when the road maintains an even flow, which means that people should move over in an alternating pattern at a single location, but not ride the lane past the last merge arrows. Like the buffer zone at the end of the runway, you should complete your merge before those arrows end. Blasting around on the shoulder is not an appropriate practice.
Those arrows are a final reminder and a safety buffer for when there's no room to merge safely. By sailing past them, you've removed the safety buffer and have likely created a traffic obstruction by cutting someone off from the shoulder.
We might well be talking about different things, as I was taking your "merge lanes" to refer to a situation where there are roadworks, and the number of lanes is reduced (in the UK) on dual-carriage ways.
As you say, "people should move over in an alternating pattern at a single location", but there are instances in the UK where drivers think that single location should be up to a mile away from where the merge is required, and use their cars to try and block others from going into the lane that will close (particularly in the Midlands, I find, but that's a personal gripe).
This has resulted in signs saying "When merging, use both lanes" on roads in these situations, to try and stop people thinking that they must queue in single file. It's that behaviour I was referring to, so we *might* be in agreement.
Your point is well taken, good sir, but again, you regular Joes seem to be more concerned about this than Apple themselves are, seeing as how they voluntarily told and allowed Mossberg to print the information about Tiger users being able to upgrade using the $29 disc.
The problem here is more about the box set foolishness though. If you offered up Snow Leopard at the halfway point between it and Leopard ($79), I'm sure a lot of Tiger users would happily pay that, as a small 'thank you' to Apple. Hell, a lot would pay the normal $129 price. But trying to shoehorn them into buying a $169 set that contains extra software that many of them don't even want or need just reeks. And for those who would say "just buy a copy of Leopard", well, it's not even available for sale on Apple's website anymore, so obviously, they're not even offering that route as an option for Tiger users.
But really, if you're doing the right thing and paying what is due to Apple for its products, just be happy with that.
Actually I think Apple did it on purpose and here's why. Remember when M$FT introduced the rearm function in Vista it encouraged users to use it more since they could essentially use it for four months before being forced to purchase a license. Apple was probably hoping that Tiger users would fork over the $169 for the box set that would help move the iLife 09 and iWork 09 suites. But if those users refuse to upgrade at that rate, then its lost sales period. At least if they update to SL for $29, then Apple still makes something instead of nothing off that user base. This not only makes them a little cash but it also increases the number of installs and looks even better to stock holders and the media when Apple comes out and says SL is on 15 million computers instead of 7 or 8.
That is my point. Apple is being underhand about it. They are in effect saying Tiger users can only upgrade via the expensive option, and keeping schtum about Tiger users being able to upgrade for £25/$29
If that was Microsoft there would be a hell of a lot of fingerpointing and gasping at evil Ballmer's tactics.
Just saying
It's always about balance. Apple is okay with the knowledge that there's a certain amount of abuse, because they've carefully studied the issues and placed a certain value on the goodwill they're creating by not locking down most of their products.
That only works so long as the cheating remains below their acceptable loss threshold. As soon as that abuse crosses the line, Apple changes its methods--they're a corporation, not a friendly neighbor. That also has the cascading effect of dissuading other businesses from following Apple's example.
You're reading more into that than can be safely assumed. Apple didn't tell Mossberg anything--the review states that they found out by attempting to install on Tiger machines, and Apple has no power to stop the printing.
If they flat-out required Leopard and kept it for sale, the price would be $129+29, or $158. I sincerely doubt that any Tiger user can really complain about $11, which buys them not only an edition of iLife that they couldn't possibly already have, but also iWork.
It's obviously an attempt by Apple to try to get everyone on board, but so what? The price is right, even if you only use one of the new applications.
If one is truly opposed to the box set, s/he can buy the $29 upgrade legally by purchasing a legitimately sold used copy of Leopard, which can be found for $50 or so. There's your $79.
There's just no justification for unlawful acquisition here other than simple greed. I'm certainly not worked up about it. If people do it, accept the consequences, and recognize that there's no explanation that justifies it, that's fine and the practice of free choice. It's only the delusion (and the spreading of outright lies like "EULAs have never been tested in court") I have a problem with.
Ah. Well the truth is that the ideal merge is moving over where you will not change the speed of anyone behind you. If there's a gap a mile away you can use, and no gaps in the last mile, then that is indeed the ideal location. But if people in the continuous lane are blocking both lanes before the last hundred meters or so of the merge lane (where it ceases to be a full-width lane), then I agree with you completely.
its not dishonesty or stealing if you are paying for it. Key Words PAYING FOR IT. If some one is fine without getting iLife 09 if they upgrade from tiger only paying 29.95 who cares. They are still paying for the software, and if Apple was really concerned about people doing this they would have put a safeguard on the install discs.
I still just don't see why people feel that Tiger users are obligated to pay for Leopard just because they did. And now some of them feel somehow cheated out of their $129, which is damned ridiculous, seeing as how they got several years of good use out of Leopard. I have an XP laptop at home, and I'm sure not going to go buy a copy of Vista before buying Windows 7 out of some vague moral obligation to Microsoft.
Apple Is All About Hardware!!!
People, don't you even think that Apple cares much about selling hardware?
I believe they won't touch this software EULA issue at all because Snow Leopard, regardless of how many computers you install it to, will sell a lot of Macs.
Remember when this certain company started selling Hackintoshes? Apple immediately got their legal teams up and shut the company down. I don't remember them pursuing a company or an individual for illegally installing OSX.
Think about it.
But then again, installing a single license OSX to multiple Macs is a violation of the EULA so if you do it and you're caught, you're guilty. It's a confusing world isn't it?
People, don't you even think that Apple cares much about selling hardware?
I believe they won't touch this software EULA issue at all because Snow Leopard, regardless of how many computers you install it to, will sell a lot of Macs.
Remember when this certain company started selling Hackintoshes? Apple immediately got their legal teams up and shut the company down. I don't remember them pursuing a company or an individual for illegally installing OSX.
Think about it.
But then again, installing a single license OSX to multiple Macs is a violation of the EULA so if you do it and you're caught, you're guilty. It's a confusing world isn't it?
I'm on Tiger, and I've always only updated every second OS update... OS9, 10.2, 10.4, and now 10.6. I just came back from the local Apple store (MBP was in for a new logic board courtesy of NVDIA). I'm a little torn, I would be happy to pay $129 as usual for the OS, but I don't think it's fair of Apple to force you to buy iWork and iLife at the same time, and I think by doing so, they're only going to push some people to go the less honest way of just paying for the 30$ upgrade. They probably figure the extra cash they make from selling a bunch of iWork and iLife will make up for those losses.
Getting upset about people only paying 30$ for software they would normally have to pay 120$ for is ridiculous. The fact is that the internet has made it child's play to get anything that comes in a digital format without paying for it. As long as the internet remains as free as this (i feel like it won't last forever), companies are relying on a huge honour system to earn their cash, and apparently it's working to a certain extent. Just chill, be happy you're doing the right thing and don't worry about Apple's bottom line, they're doing just fine, and people being cheapskates won't actually affect you in any way.
I'm not decided yet, I might get the box set. Pages is kinda useful, Keynote will be handy, Numbers is by no means an excel replacement. iLife... i use iPhoto but that's it, don't make movies, and I purchased Logic Studio a few months back so i don't need GarageBand (let alone most of the improvements they made to GB which are aimed even more at beginner musicians). So while $129 for OS plus $40 for iWork and iLife sounds pretty good, really i'd be paying 40$ for iPhoto events and face recognition, and slightly nicer versions of PowerPoint and Word.
Since my girlfriend has 10.5, I might just get a family pack of just the OS so I can do it the semi-honest way and feel sorta okay about it.
Getting upset about people only paying 30$ for software they would normally have to pay 120$ for is ridiculous. The fact is that the internet has made it child's play to get anything that comes in a digital format without paying for it. As long as the internet remains as free as this (i feel like it won't last forever), companies are relying on a huge honour system to earn their cash, and apparently it's working to a certain extent. Just chill, be happy you're doing the right thing and don't worry about Apple's bottom line, they're doing just fine, and people being cheapskates won't actually affect you in any way.
I'm not decided yet, I might get the box set. Pages is kinda useful, Keynote will be handy, Numbers is by no means an excel replacement. iLife... i use iPhoto but that's it, don't make movies, and I purchased Logic Studio a few months back so i don't need GarageBand (let alone most of the improvements they made to GB which are aimed even more at beginner musicians). So while $129 for OS plus $40 for iWork and iLife sounds pretty good, really i'd be paying 40$ for iPhoto events and face recognition, and slightly nicer versions of PowerPoint and Word.
Since my girlfriend has 10.5, I might just get a family pack of just the OS so I can do it the semi-honest way and feel sorta okay about it.
