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TikTok Sues U.S. Government Over Bill Requiring Sale

CrysisDeu said:
You meant a Singaporean company? Oh right Singapore is also totalitarian
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Stop with the disinformation please. TikTok has offices in Singapore and Los Angeles, thats all. From Wikipedia

Its parent company, Beijing-based ByteDance, is owned by founders and Chinese investors, other global investors, and employees.[14] One of ByteDance's main domestic subsidiaries is owned by Chinese state funds and entities.

It’s a Chinese company, period.
 
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I have a radical idea. The US government could EDUCATE its citizens (don’t laugh) by releasing evidence to support the idea that TikTok/China are spying (I know there’s evidence out there, but let’s hear it from the bully pulpit). Then RECOMMEND that the citizenry uninstall the app. Done. Give us the information and the choice to make our own decisions.

I hate social media. All of it. It’s a blight on all societies (forum responses are borderline too, but I digress). However, we don’t need government to save us from ourselves. Government needs us. Let’s not forget that crucial ideology.
 
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lkrupp said:
This will of course wind up in the Supreme Court who will likely side with the government. so what happen the? Tent cities on the Whitehouse lawn?
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Why would the Supreme Court likely side with the government? The U.S. ain't Japan.
 
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CrysisDeu said:
Tbh I would rather let someone else to scoop my data. At least they don’t control FBI and can use that against you. The most you will lose, is probably seeing some targeted ads
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Or your identity. That’s a major risk. Until you’ve had it happen to you (not saying you personally haven’t) it’s hard to grasp what a drag it is.
 
jarman92 said:
They could, but they obviously aren't since pro-Palestine content significantly outnumbers pro-Israel on every platform, just none close to as much as on TikTok.



Have you ever heard the phrase "when you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail?"



Just 100% wrong. The closest the ICJ came was to observe that “at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the [Genocide] Convention." That is, even accepting all of South Africa's allegations as true, Israel may be in violation of the Genocide Convention.



No, it doesn't, actually. For one, you've made no link between Israel's killing of Palestinians and the requisite intent to eliminate them as a people.
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Oh yeah, no way can we show intent: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/...cide-case-against-israel-is-not-hard-to-prove
 
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Supermallet said:
Show me evidence that the content on TikTok in the US is being manipulated and controlled by the CCP or quit the orientalist fear mongering. The US government has offered nothing concrete to justify this kind of drastic action and bootlickers are falling over themselves to defend this obvious attack on the first amendment because big red China bad!

Joseph McCarthy would be so proud.
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It’s not a first amendment issue at all, in the same way that shutting down a phone network isn’t a first amendment issue at all. Any individual can use one of the many other networks available to say what they want to say. The issue is with the network. In this case, with who has ultimate control over the network. Giving an authoritarian foreign adversary the power to monitor all communications in a popular platform and control which communications reach which people is simply unwise.

Regarding evidence, quoting myself from post #87:
A country would quickly cease to exist if it only responded to bad things after they’ve already happened, never taking precautionary measures.

When you know someone is against you, you don’t give them an opening and hope they don’t take it.

And by the way, this goes both ways. It’s not about fear mongering or labeling one country good and one bad. This is just how it is when powerful countries don’t get along. China has already banned US apps, as I would expect them to. They probably ban more than they reasonably need to, but that’s what an authoritarian government gets to do.
 
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subjonas said:
It’s not a first amendment issue at all, in the same way that shutting down a phone network isn’t a first amendment issue at all. Any individual can use one of the many other networks available to say what they want to say. The issue is with the network. In this case, with who has ultimate control over the network. Giving an authoritarian foreign adversary the power to monitor all communications in a popular platform and control which communications reach which people is simply unwise.

Regarding evidence, quoting myself from post #87:
A country would quickly cease to exist if it only responded to bad things after they’ve already happened, never taking precautionary measures.

When you know someone is against you, you don’t give them an opening and hope they don’t take it.

And by the way, this goes both ways. It’s not about fear mongering or labeling one country good and one bad. This is just how it is when powerful countries don’t get along. China has already banned US apps, as I would expect them to. They probably ban more than they reasonably need to, but that’s what an authoritarian government gets to do.
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Sorry, that justifies ANY action the US government wants to take against anyone by simply claiming self defense. Woe be unto you when they decide something you’ve done is a threat.

jarman92 said:
That your only response to everything I said is linking to a shockingly poorly written and poorly reasoned opinion piece by two human rights professors (see again my point about hammers and nails), which repeatedly portrays comments that are obviously about Hamas as comments about Palestinians, is telling.
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Your point about hammers and nails is beyond absurd. Human rights professors and humans rights groups have expertise in their field. They’re not trying to call everything happening everywhere a human rights violation. I genuinely cannot take you seriously if that’s the kind of argument you’re making. I guarantee you that human rights groups and professors understand far better than you, rando on the internet, could about what constitutes a human rights abuse.

Anyway, Israel is a genocidal apartheid settler colonial state. Free Palestine.
 
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Funny to me how China even cares about free speech and individual rights all of the sudden. They can kiss my butt.
 
Supermallet said:
Sorry, that justifies ANY action the US government wants to take against anyone by simply claiming self defense. Woe be unto you when they decide something you’ve done is a threat.



Your point about hammers and nails is beyond absurd. Human rights professors and humans rights groups have expertise in their field. They’re not trying to call everything happening everywhere a human rights violation. I genuinely cannot take you seriously if that’s the kind of argument you’re making. I guarantee you that human rights groups and professors understand far better than you, rando on the internet, could about what constitutes a human rights abuse.

Anyway, Israel is a genocidal apartheid settler colonial state. Free Palestine.
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"Appeal to authority. Appeal to authority. Ad hominem. Personal incredulity. Appeal to emotion."
 
JPack said:
Proof of imminent threat that can only be responded to by a ban.
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Well, based on US-China events, don’t we all agree China has the motive, inclination, political unrestraint, and technological ability to use a social media platform against the US (and to some extent vice versa)? Don’t we also agree social media is a powerful weapon? Then the only thing left is to wait until it actually happens, or until we find out that it has already happened, but why would anyone think it wise to wait that long?
 
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Supermallet said:
Sorry, that justifies ANY action the US government wants to take against anyone by simply claiming self defense. Woe be unto you when they decide something you’ve done is a threat.
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Not sure how you got that from what I said but still I’ll respond with a quote of myself from the same aforementioned post:
The only caveat is the [protective] measure should match the risk level.

Do we agree there? Otherwise, are you saying the US should never take precautionary measures?
 
subjonas said:
Not sure how you got that from what I said but still I’ll respond with a quote of myself from the same aforementioned post:
The only caveat is the [protective] measure should match the risk level.

Do we agree there? Otherwise, are you saying the US should never take precautionary measures?
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Banning an entire app is proportional??
 
jarman92 said:
Lol I shouldn't even ask because I'm sure the answer is gonna be bananas, but in what way is the US "worse" than China?
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“lol”

I mean Vietnam alone if you’d like? Iraq? Heck, university campuses? The fact you’re laughing like you did a gotcha by asking is so so funny.
 
jarman92 said:
He was referencing the lopsided ratio of pro-Israel to pro-Palestine content on TikTok vs the rest of social media and saying that shows China manipulates the platform to divide Americans and threaten US interests. Not that the bill passed because of pro-Palestinian content.



Not to a court of law.
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This isn’t true. I have so many pro either side accounts blocked because it’s ridiculous.

If any one group is under represented it would be the Russians. So much pro ukraine crap.
 
The wildest part of all this imo, as we’re all arguing, is that TikTok is notoriously harsh on using words related to Israel on TikTok.

New internet speak has popped up to get around having a post or comment automatically deleted by TikTok.
 
Supermallet said:
Banning an entire app is proportional??
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Considering social media is powerful and highly weaponizable and China is very capable of wielding it against the US, I’d say absolutely, banning an app (or requiring its sale to a non authoritarian foreign adversary) is quite within reason.
 
jarman92 said:
Lol I shouldn't even ask because I'm sure the answer is gonna be bananas, but in what way is the US "worse" than China?
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In terms of treating their own populations there's certainly no comparison, considering the authoritarianism, censorship, internment camps and so on.

However, in terms of what this ban is actually worried about, that is the foreign influence, propaganda, misinformation and such, I'm not sure anyone can realistically claim that the US is a neutral actor in any way.

My wife is from Latin America and she could talk extensively on all the stuff the US has done, from mis- and disinformation, propaganda, coups, support of authoritarian regimes and the list goes on.

Or consider the entirety of the Snowden revelations if you want to have an example closer to data.

But, we're all hypocrites so I'm not trying to make a massively principled point here, I just find it amusing when American politicians are morally outraged by things they would authorise in a heartbeat in other countries.
 
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Supercyborgninja said:
“lol”

I mean Vietnam alone if you’d like? Iraq? Heck, university campuses? The fact you’re laughing like you did a gotcha by asking is so so funny.
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I'm laughing because the allegation that the US is in any way worse than China when it comes to human rights is so absurd and risible that it's all I can do. Please do some research into what the Chinese have done to Vietnam. Also what they're currently doing to the Uyghurs. Also what happened in Tiananmen Square (though not on TikTok, of course, where such topics are aggressively suppressed).
 
subjonas said:
Considering social media is powerful and highly weaponizable and China is very capable of wielding it against the US, I’d say absolutely, banning an app (or requiring its sale to a non authoritarian foreign adversary) is quite within reason.
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Thank you for proving my point, your line of reasoning can be used to defend any action the US takes, no matter how outrageous. After all, who gets to decide what response is proportional? We have people in this very thread showing their whole ass and saying that slaughtering over 34,000 humans, most of them women and children, is a proportional and justified response to an act of violence that killed 1200 people. We had the Bush admin justify the complete overthrow of another sovereign nation because of 9/11. I don’t trust the government, any government, to determine appropriate and proportional responses.
 
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you all know that more than 1/2 of all companies in the world are not owned by the country that the company is in right? Not a TikTok user but I do agree with them. Let the people decide to download and use TikTok (or any other app).
Inform them but don't control them..
 
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