Tile Adds Undetectable Anti-Theft Mode to Tracking Devices, With $1 Million Fine If Used for Stalking

[Sophisticatednut]

Is there any reason to use this over AirTags as an iPhone user?

family sharing? I think that’s the only benefit they have

 

[Pezimak]

Nope.

The system only notifies people when an AirTag is following them and the owner of it is not around.

From Apple's page...

So why do people stick them in their cars? It seems pointless as any thief with an iPhone will know it’s there. Apple certainly is right in stating they are for finding your lost items only.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

So why do people stick them in their cars? It seems pointless as any thief with an iPhone will know it’s there. Apple certainly is right in stating they are for finding your lost items only.

Because they don’t know how to use AirTags. Or they just want to find the car in the parking lot or in town

 

[obviouslogic]

Nope, not even with complete data provided they have zero ability to tell of someone is stalked. The police is the ones who uses this data along side other information that Tile doesn’t have accessible, and to build a case.

The agreement doesn’t do that ether. The agreement rests on outside parties filing a criminal complaint and winning first.

Not sure what you are arguing, but if Tile had access to all your location data and how you used your device, it could in theory determine what you were using it for.

If it was for finding stolen property, a person would do something about it right away. Like immediately try to locate and take their item back or at least report it stolen. If they were tracking/stalking someone, it would be obvious, cause that happens over days of monitoring the device and not do anything else about it.

 

[obviouslogic]

So why do people stick them in their cars? It seems pointless as any thief with an iPhone will know it’s there. Apple certainly is right in stating they are for finding your lost items only.

Exactly, but not necessarily pointless. Could still track movements for several minutes or more. Depending on how long before they find it.

 

[applefan69]

The million dollar fine is just a deterrent. Your id is linked to it so regardless of money the government can send you to jail and I doubt tile really cares about the mill

And frankly once the courts are prosecuting the criminal, the fact the criminal already explicitly acknowledged that a $1million fine was possible, will greatly reduce any likelihood of leniency in the courts decision making. The fact the criminal still proceeded in his illegal act after being TOLD IT WILL COST HIM, is not going to get ignored. They will use that as reasoning to apply the highest penalty possible & ignore any "first time offender" mercy.

So yes, what Tile is doing actually will make a difference in the eyes of the court.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Not sure what you are arguing, but if Tile had access to all your location data and how you used your device, it could in theory determine what you were using it for.

If it was for finding stolen property, a person would do something about it right away. Like immediately try to locate and take their item back or at least report it stolen. If they were tracking/stalking someone, it would be obvious, cause that happens over days of monitoring the device and not do anything else about it.

Nope, it could as well be an item a friend have borrowed, a family member etc etc. it can’t be determined.

It could even be corporate property being tracked.

If something is stolen it won’t be discovered immediately. And if they haven’t lost the item they won’t even follow it.

Hence why hey will use a court ruling as a base.

 

[applefan69]

Nope, it could as well be an item a friend have borrowed, a family member etc etc. it can’t be determined.

It could even be corporate property being tracked.

If something is stolen it won’t be discovered immediately. And if they haven’t lost the item they won’t even follow it.

Hence why hey will use a court ruling as a base.

I agree it is not black and white. But these matters are for the courts, and circumstances to determine. This kind of "investigation" is exactly why courts exist in the first place... to determine the real offenses and not.

Lets be serious in the event of "friend borrowing an item", or "corporate asset tracking", there wont be any court case because there wont be any victim, therefore there wont be an investigation. You are ignoring the fact that in real life the non-issue cases will be ignored.

When a real live case comes to the courts "Person A is alleged to be stalking Person B". At THAT POINT, the data about how long the tracking device was tracked, and where, when, how, etc will all come together to make an obvious case of stalking or not. I dont think this is complicated.

edit: sorry I think we are in agreement. Where you say "court ruling as a base".

 

[RalfTheDog]

There are laws that prohibit this type of ULA. That million dollar fine won’t be enforceable in the most conservative of courts, let alone in the 9th.


There are laws about the restrictions of a ULA. This won’t be enforceable in the most conservative of courts, let alone the 9th District.

If this nonsense was enforceable, you’d have companies do this all the time. How about Apple fining customers who make clones? Adobe fining people who allow others to use their account?

This stuff isn’t enforceable and Tile knows it. It’s just a marketing gimmick.

The difference is, the contract says, "You can't use our service to commit criminal acts against others." That is quite a bit different than, "Don't share your password."

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The laws are meant to provide for reasonable explanations and limitations. The ULA is not meant to replace the US criminal code or substitute for governing law.

Well that’s the thing. It’s not replacing the law or substitute it. It rests 100% on a preexisting court ruling of a guilty verdict where they used their service to commit a crime against another person.

Only IF a guilty verdict is given will Tiles file a lawsuit for breach of contract.
No guilty verdict= no fine. no contact= no lawsuit

 

[_Spinn_]

I can’t see this ending well.

 

[laptech]

Whilst the wording of the article could be better, the issue around the wording of '$1 million fine' is legally enforceable because it would come under 'breach of contract'. Many contracts have 'penalty' clauses in them usually relate to contracts not being completed on time but there can be cases such as this where if the product is used in an illegal manner (tracking someone without their consent is against the law (privacy issues)) then manufacturer can put 'penalty' clauses into the terms and conditions of the product stating that a 'penalty' payment must be made. Tile are stating that buyers of their product must agree to the stringent terms of use of the product. This forms a 'contract' and thus if the customer breaches the contract by using the Tile for illegal tracking purposes then use the customer would be liable for the 'fine'.

In my opinion the use of the word 'fine' is wrong because as you can see many members are associating it with the legal term of 'fine'. The wording that should have been used is 'penalty' as in, if a customer breaches the stringent use of terms then they will be charged a 'penalty fee' of $1 million.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I agree it is not black and white. But these matters are for the courts, and circumstances to determine. This kind of "investigation" is exactly why courts exist in the first place... to determine the real offenses and not.

Lets be serious in the event of "friend borrowing an item", or "corporate asset tracking", there wont be any court case because there wont be any victim, therefore there wont be an investigation. You are ignoring the fact that in real life the non-issue cases will be ignored.

When a real live case comes to the courts "Person A is alleged to be stalking Person B". At THAT POINT, the data about how long the tracking device was tracked, and where, when, how, etc will all come together to make an obvious case of stalking or not. I dont think this is complicated.

edit: sorry I think we are in agreement. Where you say "court ruling as a base".

Indeed I would say we are likely completely in agreement.

I think a lot of people mistakes this as Tile will prosecute people for using their products for stalking, but it will just be victims or police who will file charges against someone who misused it.

Tile will not even know who they are unless the police calls them.

 

[mazz0]

Well I for one think this is a good idea. The inability to be used for theft protection is a major flaw in AirTags. Linking it to government ID seems like a smart anti-misuse incentive to me. Whether the fine is enforceable or not isn't really the point.

 

[laptech]

Indeed I would say we are likely completely in agreement.

I think a lot of people mistakes this as Tile will prosecute people for using their products for stalking, but it will just be victims or police who will file charges against someone who misused it.

Tile will not even know who they are unless the police calls them.

Tile will know who their customers are because of serial numbers. Serial numbers of products have always being tied down to the customers account which would naturally include the customers personal information. If and when Tile introduce the new stringent terms and conditions, if Tile is made aware that a customer is using the product for illegal means then it will be a breach of contract which is a civil matter and thus Tile would be able to sue the customer for breach of contract and thus go after the $1 million penalty (fine) clause as stated in the contract (T&C's).

Tile would be able to take the customer to civil court over breach of contract and then recommend to the victim that they make a police complaint so the abuser can be taken to criminal court due to the 'action' of the tile product being used for illegal means (stalking which is a criminal offense).

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Tile will know who their customers are because of serial numbers. Serial numbers of products have always being tied down to the customers account which would naturally include the customers personal information. If and when Tile introduce the new stringent terms and conditions, if Tile is made aware that a customer is using the product for illegal means then it will be a breach of contract which is a civil matter and thus Tile would be able to sue the customer for breach of contract and thus go after the $1 million penalty (fine) clause as stated in the contract (T&C's).

Tile would be able to take the customer to civil court over breach of contract and then recommend to the victim that they make a police complaint so the abuser can be taken to criminal court due to the 'action' of the tile product being used for illegal means (stalking which is a criminal offense).

Absolutely not they won’t be able to do that. Stalking is a criminal act, they can’t file a civil complaint without a crime being proven.

The only way Tile can be made aware their customer is breaking the contract is when police or other federal agencies contact them.

There are too many variables and circumstances that will look like stalking but are completely consensual. this is information only a police investigation can determine and confirm.

It’s the same ludicrous statement when colleges fines or punished students for sexual assault because they believe it without an actual court ruling that ends up putting them in legal trouble

 

[dwsolberg]

I understand trying to get a competitive advantage against Apple. I wonder if they’ll get sued into oblivion, though, after people use it to track abused partners.

 

[laptech]

Absolutely not they won’t be able to do that. Stalking is a criminal act, they can’t file a civil complaint without a crime being proven.

The only way Tile can be made aware their customer is breaking the contract is when police or other federal agencies contact them.

There are too many variables and circumstances that will look like stalking but are completely consensual. this is information only a police investigation can determine and confirm.

It’s the same ludicrous statement when colleges fines or punished students for sexual assault because they believe it without an actual court ruling that ends up putting them in legal trouble

Actually they can. If a Tile customer under the new stringent T&C's uses the product to stalk someone then two incidents come into effect, one civil which is breach of contract and one criminal which is stalking. Because both are at play here for the same incident, criminal law trumps civil law and when the criminal case is over and done with then the civil case can begin because the civil case could have an effect on any criminal proceedings hence why criminal law is dealt with first then civil law.

Tile would not know if someone is being stalked until the stalked victim made the company aware that their product was being used to stalk them. Tile would most probably ask the victim to send the product to them so they can investigate which of their customers owned the Tile. This information would only be made available to the police upon request. It is up to the stalked victim to make a complaint of stalking to the police. If the stalked victim does not want to make a complaint to the police (which is the persons right) then Tile can still carry out their own investigation to see if their product was used for illegal purposes and if so they would be able to invoke the clause in the contract and claim breach of contract by the customer who owned the device.

Not everyone who has been wronged files a complaint to the police BUT a company would still be required to carry out their own investigation. The thing is most businesses nowadays require a complaint to the police before they proceed with their own investigation. Insurance companies are a classic example of this.

So basically, it depends on Tile's company policy and procedures. They can proceed with civil action against a customer without their being a criminal complaint against the customer because the burden of proof in a civil case has a much lower threshold than that of a criminal case. All Tile would have to prove in the civil case is that there is a element of stalking taking place.

So, for the line you used 'they can’t file a civil complaint without a crime being proven' is incorrect because proof of this is divorce. Many divorce's involve incidents that involve criminal element but the victim does not chose to make a criminal complaint but yet the divorce is allowed to go ahead. If what you said was true then the number of divorce's would rapidly drop.

 

[ozzieslashflea]

So the rich can afford to stalk? Cool.

 

[MacWiz_007]

These remind me of some song lyrics from the 80's...

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
I'll be watching you

 

[Blowtorch]

AirTag competitor Tile today announced a new Anti-Theft Mode for Tile tracking devices, which is designed to make Tile accessories undetectable by the anti-stalking Scan and Secure feature.

Scan and Secure is a security measure that Tile implemented in order to allow iPhone and Android users to scan for and detect nearby Tile devices to keep them from being used for stalking purposes. Unfortunately, Scan and Secure undermines the anti-theft capabilities of the Tile because a stolen device's Tile can be located and removed, something also possible with similar security features added for AirTags.

Tile's Anti-Theft Mode disables Scan and Secure so a Tile tracking device will not be able to be located by a person who does not own the tracker. To prevent stalking with Anti-Theft Mode, Tile says that customers must register using multi-factor identification and agree to stringent usage terms, which include a $1 million fine if the device ends up being used to track a person without their consent.

The Anti-Theft Mode option is meant to make it easier to locate stolen items by preventing thieves from knowing an item is being tracked. Tile points out that in addition to Anti-Theft Mode, its trackers do not notify nearby smartphone users when an unknown Bluetooth tracker is traveling with them, making them more useful for tracking stolen items than AirTags. Apple has added alerts for nearby AirTags to prevent AirTags from being used for tracking people. Enabling Anti-Theft mode will require users to link a government-issued ID card to their Tile account, submitting to an "advanced ID verification process" that uses a biometric scan to detect fake IDs.

The ID sync is meant to deter people from using Tile trackers for stalking or other nefarious purposes. Tile says that any individual convicted of using Tile devices to illegally track another individual without their consent will be fined $1 million, wording that is in the Tile terms of service. Tile says it is also taking a "highly collaborative stance" with law enforcement, and users who turn on Anti-Theft Mode acknowledge that their personal information "can and will" be shared with law enforcement officials in cases of suspected stalking.

Tile claims that these usage terms are "progressive safety measures" that will protect people from being stalked with Tile devices.

Anti-Theft Mode is rolling out to Tile users starting today, and will be available to all users in the coming weeks.

Article Link: Tile Adds Undetectable Anti-Theft Mode to Tracking Devices, With $1 Million Fine If Used for Stalking

So this feature subordinates personal safety to locating property stolen by thieves. How will a person being stalked detect the device in order to report it? That’s problem number one.

Unfortunately, to locate the device will require a specialized individual (a detective). So someone will have to die for illegal stalking to be discovered.

Tile is providing an undetectable opportunity for innocent human beings to be stalked, tortured, or worse. And they have advertised to, and will profit from potential stalkers. This is dangerous. I await how TILE will avoid major lawsuits.

America wake up, nobody cares as long as money is the goal.

 

[Blowtorch]

So a stalker plants a device somewhere in your car. At an opportune moment, murders you, removes the device from your car and slips away…hmm

BUT if your bike was stolen, LE could get it back for you without the thief realizing they are being tracked.

That’s bad for the thief, but perfect for a killer. Bikes over people. Way to go!!!!

 

[iObama]

So this feature subordinates personal safety to locating property stolen by thieves. How will a person being stalked detect the device in order to report it? That’s problem number one.

Unfortunately, to locate the device will require a specialized individual (a detective). So someone will have to die for illegal stalking to be discovered.

Tile is providing an undetectable opportunity for innocent human beings to be stalked, tortured, or worse. And they have advertised to, and will profit from potential stalkers. This is dangerous. I await how TILE will avoid major lawsuits.

America wake up, nobody cares as long as money is the goal.

This thread is a year and a half old lol.