Tile Adds Undetectable Anti-Theft Mode to Tracking Devices, With $1 Million Fine If Used for Stalking

[rafark]

I don’t think it would be difficult for Tile to demonstrate harm to their brand and a revenue loss based on the publicity that goes along with this sort of thing. Add in that the bad guy separately and beyond the standard TOS entered into an agreement to not use their product nefariously, I don’t think it’s as laughable as you think.

I’d get it if you were renting the product. But you’re buying it. You’re the sole owner. How could anyone that isn’t an official authority tell you what you can and cannot do with your stuff?

 

[TechnoMonk]

It depends on whose account the AirTag is set to. If you spouse borrows your car and the keys have an AirTag put on by the other, it will beep and notify you. Apple at least needs to have a way to share AirTags among family members.

You do realize, almost half of the stalking happens from a close family member, mostly spouse.

 

[TonyC28]

I’d get it if you were renting the product. But you’re buying it. You’re the sole owner. How could anyone that isn’t an official authority tell you what you can and cannot do with your stuff?

I have no idea. A court would decide. I’m not saying it’s a winning case, just that I’m not outright dismissing it just yet.
Also, it seems the user would have separately had to “unlock” this feature by entering into an agreement. So they have already told me one thing I can’t do with it right out of the box.

 

[obviouslogic]

So if you have one your keys and your driving it'll start beeping after a while, that sounds VERY annoying to me.

Nope.

The system only notifies people when an AirTag is following them and the owner of it is not around.

From Apple's page...

AirTag is designed to discourage unwanted tracking. If someone else’s AirTag finds its way into your stuff, your iPhone will notice it’s traveling with you and send you an alert. After a while, if you still haven’t found it, the AirTag will start playing a sound to let you know it’s there.

Of course, if you happen to be with a friend who has an AirTag, or on a train with a whole bunch of people with AirTag, don’t worry. These alerts are triggered only when an AirTag is separated from its owner.

 

[obviouslogic]

And what is to prevent a vindictive ex from doing the same thing with an Apple Tag? Nothing.

True...

In anti-theft mode, a person would have to almost accidentally physically find the tag itself, making them much more stealthy. Proving the intention or reason of why that Tile was hidden away by itself would be easier; most likely stalking/tracking. So the flip side of that would make it more difficult for someone to prove that they were innocent if framed.

It would be the same if you found an AirTag all by itself with the speaker removed. But even then the system would eventually notify someone that there was an AirTag following them. So a person would have to be stupid to use an AirTag for stalking purposes. But there are stupid people in the world.

 

[obviouslogic]

It depends on whose account the AirTag is set to. If you spouse borrows your car and the keys have an AirTag put on by the other, (1) it will beep and notify you. Apple at least needs to have (2) a way to share AirTags among family members.

1. Yes, it will, but you can then tell your phone to ignore notifications coming from that AirTag either for the rest of the day, or indefinitely (meaning you no longer have to worry about borrowing your spouse's keys).

2. I'm sure Apple could include "Family Sharing", but as these devices are for locating personal items, they sided on keeping locations private to individuals for now.

 

[AntiApple69]

This is all just a massive, legal cluster**** waiting to extrude itself all over the media. 🤣😂🤣

 

[TechnoMonk]

I have no idea. A court would decide. I’m not saying it’s a winning case, just that I’m not outright dismissing it just yet.
Also, it seems the user would have separately had to “unlock” this feature by entering into an agreement. So they have already told me one thing I can’t do with it right out of the box.

How will tile prove stalking? The victim needs to approach LE. If anything Victim needs to sue, and good luck jury awarding any money to tile, they will give money to victim. Cops have very low arrest rate, let alone charging some one. Most states don’t consider stalking as a felony.
If Tile is serious about stalking, how about donating million dollars to organizations that provide services to stalking victims.

 

[TonyC28]

How will tile prove stalking? The victim needs to approach LE. If anything Victim needs to sue, and good luck jury awarding any money to tile, they will give money to victim. Cops have very low arrest rate, let alone charging some one. Most states don’t consider stalking as a felony.
If Tile is serious about stalking, how about donating million dollars to organizations that provide services to stalking victims.

I think it says the person would have to already be convicted.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I think it says the person would have to already be convicted.

That makes it worse. Hypothetically, Victim can sue Tile, the moment they become party to the case. In essence this is a slimy marketing move.

 

[d686546s]

How will tile prove stalking? The victim needs to approach LE. If anything Victim needs to sue, and good luck jury awarding any money to tile, they will give money to victim. Cops have very low arrest rate, let alone charging some one. Most states don’t consider stalking as a felony.
If Tile is serious about stalking, how about donating million dollars to organizations that provide services to stalking victims.

Tile wouldn't need to prove stalking because they require an existing conviction in a court of law for the 'fine' to kick in, which can be a high bar.

The real question is how would Tile enforce this after a victim has successfully reported stalking to the police, police has investigated and a court has convicted someone. Tile says they will be very cooperative with law enforcement, but that still doesn't mean that you can build a successful case.

I doubt anyone would pay voluntarily, so they'd have to sue, which in turn would test whether such a provision is legal in the first place.

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

This is an incredibly bad idea

 

[obviouslogic]

That makes it worse. Hypothetically, Victim can sue Tile, the moment they become party to the case. In essence this is a slimy marketing move.

Not sure you can sue a tool company for misuse of said tool? Tile clearly says this is only for tracking stolen items and even makes the user agree to that. This whole brouhaha is more about exonerating Tile from being liable for misuse than anything else.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

What’s the crime? How is Tile going to prove there was a crime? Cops won’t even file report based on tile marketing jumbo jumbo, let alone press charges. There has to be real crime.

Ok, and what crime are they gonna charge you with? This thing will be laughed at civil trials. Good luck sending fine

thats not how it works in real life. Makes a good movie story or a Netflix show.

Many issues with this...

1. A vindictive ex gets a hold of your anti-theft Tile and claims they "found" it and accuses you of stalking.

2. Attach the Tile to a fake item, plant in car or bag, if caught, stalker can claim the item was stolen and they were just tracking it to recover it.

3. Are you really going to hand over that much personal data to a company that makes tracking devices?

It was tongue in cheek. Shows how ridiculous it is. Can you imagine what would happen if Apple demanded your Gov ID to use AirTags?

Yeah I knew it wasn’t a serious comment. I am not giving my ID to any company, including Apple for a lost item tracker. It just shows desperation by Tile.
I use/own 4 AirTags, one with my car keys, one with my carry on bag, and one with my laptop, and spare for checked bags.

Its quite obvious non of you people understand how this works on any level.

1: how do you know a tile have anti theft mode on?
2: you must still be convicted for anything.
3: the terms are signed separately And can’t be activated unknowingly.

4: you don’t think the owner will discover this almost immediately? Suddenly their specific tile with anti theft activated that normally are in their car is showing on the other side of town?!

5: No ID is requested from anyone unless specifically you want to activate the anti theft function.

6: this isn’t a TOS violation, but a contractual agreement not to use their service for nefarious means according to a court of law.

7: 1 million dollar fine is absolutely possible, people have been fined for less criminal conduct with corporate resources

 

[1885507]

Life360 was already selling off people’s precise location data so this smells infinitely more like a gimmick and marketing than a feasible deterrent.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Tile wouldn't need to prove stalking because they require an existing conviction in a court of law for the 'fine' to kick in, which can be a high bar.

The real question is how would Tile enforce this after a victim has successfully reported stalking to the police, police has investigated and a court has convicted someone. Tile says they will be very cooperative with law enforcement, but that still doesn't mean that you can build a successful case.

I doubt anyone would pay voluntarily, so they'd have to sue, which in turn would test whether such a provision is legal in the first place.

Good defense attorney can claim the victim stole the tracker to frame the defendant. Most of stalking cases involve a person close to the victim. I doubt Tile wants to open up for discovery in trail.

Not sure you can sue a tool company for misuse of said tool? Tile clearly says this is only for tracking stolen items and even makes the user agree to that. This whole brouhaha is more about exonerating Tile from being liable for misuse than anything else.

Negligence, failure to detect:report stalking behavior. Now it’s hard to prove willful negligence, but show a motive of benefit of 1 M dollar. If the company benefits from some one stalking, and paying fine financially, those are some murky waters.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

To everyone who says 'this is not enforceable', it will cost you to defend. A lot. If you are a higher net worth individual, maybe retired or well off with assets, all Tile has to do is get a judgement against you in court, and your assets can be seized and liens put against your property. I haven't read that the money will go to victims, either. Tile just gets to keep the money? Brilliant corporate strategy. It's no longer worth the risk to own any Tile product. I hope no one signs up for this crap.

What's next, a computer company asking you to pay a million dollar fine if you download anything illegal?

Not at all. Tile needs a court ruling that shows you have been convicted for stalking.

There’s zero need or possibility for tile to prove you have stalked anyone without a criminal conviction first will throw this out of court within two minutes

 

[obviouslogic]

Its quite obvious non of you people understand how this works on any level.

1: how do you know a tile have anti theft mode on?
2: you must still be convicted for anything.
3: the terms are signed separately And can’t be activated unknowingly.

4: you don’t think the owner will discover this almost immediately? Suddenly their specific tile with anti theft activated that normally are in their car is showing on the other side of town?!

5: No ID is requested from anyone unless specifically you want to activate the anti theft function.

6: this isn’t a TOS violation, but a contractual agreement not to use their service for nefarious means according to a court of law.

7: 1 million dollar fine is absolutely possible, people have been fined for less criminal conduct with corporate resources

You included my post, and so, I assume you're referring to the first thing on my list (being framed by an ex), which is a hypothetical situation, but still plausible. There may be a dozen if's and but's before something becomes possible, but I'm telling you, there's always a path...

-If I was married or living with someone, chances are they would've showed and told me that they bought these things in case [items] got stolen.
-They may have a couple no longer being used for tracking and just sitting in a drawer because they no longer have that item and never bothered to turn off anti-theft mode.
-I could take one and plant it in my car. And conveniently find it before they notice that it was gone. And if I were smart, I would've done a "test run" beforehand to make sure they weren't alerted that it had moved.

-There's also the possibility that the purpose of one of those was to be kept on something of mine. When we broke up, I gave it back (and have proof of that), but it somehow ended being stashed back in my car?

...and so on.

 

[obviouslogic]

Good defense attorney can claim the victim stole the tracker to frame the defendant. Most of stalking cases involve a person close to the victim. I doubt Tile wants to open up for discovery in trail.

Negligence, failure to detect:report stalking behavior. Now it’s hard to prove willful negligence, but show a motive of benefit of 1 M dollar. If the company benefits from some one stalking, and paying fine financially, those are some murky waters.

Unless Tile is collecting location data and seeing how and when you track the device, there is absolutely no way they can determine or detect what their device is being used for. That's precisely why they want an agreement.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

You included my post, and so, I assume you're referring to the first thing on my list (being framed by an ex), which is a hypothetical situation, but still plausible. There may be a dozen if's and but's before something becomes possible, but I'm telling you, there's always a path...

The case is still not filed by Tile. The moment you are convicted in a court of law because the police or the person sues/ arrests you for stalking that leads to a conviction, this is only when tile can point to the contract and say: you have been convicted of stalking with the help of our extra services according to the police department that contacted us in relation to your case, we have also been notified by the court of a guilty verdict for using it as explicitly forbidden in the contract you signed, here you have a fine of 1 million.

-If I was married or living with someone, chances are they would've showed and told me that they bought these things in case [items] got stolen.
-They may have a couple no longer being used for tracking and just sitting in a drawer because they no longer have that item and never bothered to turn off anti-theft mode.
-I could take one and plant it in my car. And conveniently find it before they notice that it was gone. And if I were smart, I would've done a "test run" beforehand to make sure they weren't alerted that it had moved.

And how do you think it proves any stalking happened? You think just a day is enough?

The fact the Tile tracker followed someone but the “perpetrator” never went along the tiles location physically or visits the same places repeatedly? Stalking isn’t an easy crime to prove with singular instances.

And secondly how do you know the difference between an anti theft Tile and normal Tile? Or that the tile doesn’t notify them the moment they lose contact with their phone?

My AirTags notify me the moment I ether leave them or they leave my houses geolocation.

-There's also the possibility that the purpose of one of those was to be kept on something of mine. When we broke up, I gave it back (and have proof of that), but it somehow ended being stashed back in my car?

...and so on.

All of your ifs are completely unrelated to Tile as they are never the plaintiffs in the stalker cases.

The only time Tile knows your specific tile has potentially been used for stalking is the moment a police department contacts them regarding your specific tile to get access to user data and ID. Before that they have no clue.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Unless Tile is collecting location data and seeing how and when you track the device, there is absolutely no way they can determine or detect what their device is being used for. That's precisely why they want an agreement.

Nope, not even with complete data provided they have zero ability to tell of someone is stalked. The police is the ones who uses this data along side other information that Tile doesn’t have accessible, and to build a case.

The agreement doesn’t do that ether. The agreement rests on outside parties filing a criminal complaint and winning first.

 

[spazzcat]

Semantics. What you’re saying is that apple nerfed an otherwise useful product and for this reason has to market it for less use cases than it could have.

I guess you can say that, but it always had non stalking features, and Apple never never advertised it for more then finding things.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Unless Tile is collecting location data and seeing how and when you track the device, there is absolutely no way they can determine or detect what their device is being used for. That's precisely why they want an agreement.

That is exactly why this whole thing looks like child’s move. Car manufacturers, or other equipment makers don’t say we going to fine the users for causing an accident or break the law misusing products in crime. The moment Tile starts 1M$ litigation, it opens up Victim’s lawyer an opportunity to look at compensation from Tile, tile does benefit with 1M $ fine. That’s huge financial motive.

 

[rafark]

Weren’t they undetectable from the start which is why AirTags work like they do. Because the old way sucked

How did the “old way” sucked?

 

[Abazigal]

Is there any reason to use this over AirTags as an iPhone user?