Tile CEO: 'We Welcome Competition From Apple, But We Think It Needs to Be Fair'

[Xak444]

Well your location IS information. Perhaps there's something in there about your Bluetooth signal and location info being used anonymously to update the location of lost items on the Find My network. I'm sure Apple's lawyers have it covered, if it needs to be.

Is it using your location or is it sending the location of the AirTag tho

 

[Unregistered 4U]

That's probably the only good news for Tile... AirTags don't work on Android.

So perhaps Tile should put less reliance on iOS and start focusing on making the best trackers for Android.

Though after reading all the negative comments from Tile users in this thread... it doesn't sound like Tile works very hard on making great products.

I wonder... if I could snap my fingers today and make AirTags nonexistent... what would Tile do tomorrow?

Actually they’ve got competition there from T-mobile and Samsung on Android. They let their first mover advantage evaporate and they can only blame themselves.

 

[nutmac]

How exactly are they supposed to do that?

Tile has its own tracking network that they charge for (and rightly so).

Apple has now come in with the Find My network...a forced opt-in anonymous tracking network, that everyone can use, and no one can charge for.

Apple is abusing their position to reduce a paid service to free, by using all of the devices they control in the wild, with no consent from anyone.

The staggering hypocrisy here about what they just released with 14.5 and the prompting and opt-in for users on ad tracking vs. the Find My network which everyone is automatically opted in to is astounding. I wonder how well that would work if people were prompted to allow their device to be used by other people to track things.

Tile does not charge for their network. They offer optional subscription ($30/year, $100/year with $1000 reimbursement "insurance") that adds additional features such as smart alert (notifies you if you leave your item behind, location history, and free replacement batteries), extended warranty, and free batteries.

Some of Tile's biggest mistakes:

• Insisting on non-user replaceable battery design for about 4 years, in contrast to most of their competitors. Planned obsolescence?
• Making their flagship product (Tile Pro) uglier than the basic version (Tile Mate).
• Doesn't work fast enough. Often, locating Tile takes too long.
• In an ironic twist, not opening up their network to other companies. Tile's network would be much larger today if it allowed others to use their network (all the while collecting license fees).
• Not embracing UWB earlier.
• Lack of innovation on "free" non-subscription plan. All of their new features (e.g., smart alerts, sharing with more than 1 other users) are packaged into subscription. Only the software features that rely heavily on the cloud should require subscription.
• No concept of family, no Tile Premium for Family.

Tile offers Android cross platform compatibility, so it's not too late for Tile to do these things still. But Samsung also sells Galaxy SmartTag (with UWB no less). So their window is narrowing.

 

[DigitalRGorilla]

How exactly are they supposed to do that?

Tile has its own tracking network that they charge for (and rightly so).

Apple has now come in with the Find My network...a forced opt-in anonymous tracking network, that everyone can use, and no one can charge for.

Apple is abusing their position to reduce a paid service to free, by using all of the devices they control in the wild, with no consent from anyone.

The staggering hypocrisy here about what they just released with 14.5 and the prompting and opt-in for users on ad tracking vs. the Find My network which everyone is automatically opted in to is astounding. I wonder how well that would work if people were prompted to allow their device to be used by other people to track things.

You can switch off Find My. Plus Find My is for tracking yourself and your own equipment. Unlike 3rd Parties tracking you and everything you do.

 

[genovelle]

The missing factor is that Apple enters markets in a lot of cases as a protective measure. Too often they allowed important segments to be dependent on 3rd parties and got burned or held over the fire. Look at Maps which was originally developed with Google and then they started with holding feature updates for years, like turn by turn, which ironically came to Google maps immediately when they released on iOS. Apple had to start from scratch. The same happened with Nest that Apple gave them their platform and promoted and sold their products in stores and online. Google scooped in and bought them gaining insight into Apple’s effort in HomeKit etc. This dates back to iWork being created so Microsoft could no longer use office to negotiate access to Apple IP that would end up in Windows.

 

[genovelle]

sounds like they dont like competition when its not in their favor. or they desperately wanted to be bought by Apple and instead, Apple made their own product.

And lowered the cost of entry for other competitors to them. If Tile was smart they would have been trying to get closer to Apple as they learned about Airtag via leaks two years ago. Apple always makes an expensive product with high margins to fit their business model. With an Accessory holder Apple is twice the price. Once Apple raised the bar on quality and brought attention to the market, they could have become the high quality less expensive option that works well on the Apple network.

 

[cdarlington1]

I remember.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Look at Maps which was originally developed with Google and then they started with holding feature updates for years, like turn by turn, which ironically came to Google maps immediately when they released on iOS.

Google literally created the competition. Apple Maps will never be as broadly complete as Google’s, but, just like processor power, the time will come with the Apple’s Maps solution will be better than most folks need it to be.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

If you look at the history between Tile and Apple, we had a very symbiotic relationship. They sold Tile in their stores, we were highlighted at WWDC 2019, and then they launched ‌Find My‌ in 2019, and right when they launched their ‌Find My‌ app, which is effectively a competitor of Tile, they made a number of changes to their OS that made it very difficult for our customers to enable Tile. And then once they got it enabled, they started showing notifications that basically made it seem like Tile was broken.

Funny. I used Tile chips after that, and they seemed to work fine. I got tired of the 'Your Tile is dying, give us more money to get another one!' messages. But it's obviously all Apple's fault. *eyes rolling*

 

[Lemon Olive]

They could build a cross platform tool that worked the same way as Apple’s Find My network. They instead chose to create a tracking network that does nothing to preserve privacy.

They have every right to charge for their network if they choose. However, given their lack of privacy preservation and that (at least in the past), they reserved the right to resell that data, why would I want to opt-in to it?

No one is forced to opt-in to the Find My network. While its functionality has been expanding, it has been around for years. Given that protecting Apple Devices from loss and theft is at the core of this service, it makes sense that it should be free. Tile could absolutely charge for their service, if they offered something that Apple did/could not, for example cross platform support.

No one is forced to opt-in to the Find My network. Everyone who does so explicitly has to opt-in. Are you arguing that Apple should now be forced to charge for a service they have been providing for free so that Tile can now charge for a service they used to provide for free?

No, it is not opt-in for ad tracking, it is opt-in for third party app tracking. First parties can track to their hearts content. Second, no one is automatically enrolled, when setting up a device, users are required to consent to location services if they wish to take advantage of the service. Users may choose to participate in the service or not.

Are you lying or simply don't understand?

Everyone opted in to the Find My network in order to use Find My iPhone.

No one opted in to being used as anonymous bluetooth tracking service for their neighbors pets.

 

[WiseAJ]

Bad option:
Jump on the Apple is bad wagon, ... where you must start a lawsuit, engage congress, ...
People will just stop supporting you even faster.

The Coalition of Whiners has provided a nice list of business for me to avoid using.

 

[WiseAJ]

Are you lying or simply don't understand?

Everyone opted in to the Find My network in order to use Find My iPhone.

No one opted in to being used as anonymous bluetooth tracking service for their neighbors pets.

Find My has been for more than just iPhone's for years. The network is to Find Stuff. The stuff mentioned is just now more than iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, Apple Watches, and AirPods.

Does it really matter what it is that your iPhone is helping to find anonymously and with complete privacy? If it really does then you can turn it off. I'm sure Find My can survive without your one device looking for someone's lost item.

 

[matrix07]

Apple is the new Microsoft: Embrace, Extend and Extinguis

How exactly? AirTag's only compatible with iOS. Tile still has a huge market untouched in Android.

 

[gregmancuso]

I have several Tiles. “Find My” doesn’t see them.

And that is Tile's choice. The choose to not support Find My. There are other third-party trackers announced - not sure if any are actually released yet or still in pre-order, but that is beside the point. Fact is, Tile has access and chooses to not exploit it.

 

[Phone Junky]

Are you lying or simply don't understand?

Everyone opted in to the Find My network in order to use Find My iPhone.

No one opted in to being used as anonymous bluetooth tracking service for their neighbors pets.

Does it really matter? Same network used to find different things. iPhones or AirTags, it works the same. It's ok for Find My to use your iPhone to locate someone else's iPhone but not AirTags? Why?

 

[TwiztedClown]

Many of you fall for the illusion of competition. There's no competition. It's predatory.

Tile has a non choice. It can keep its own network and stay off Find My. But Apple won't give Tile the keys to have their network be as robust as Find My. E.g., they could figure out a solution to extend the iPhone/BluetoothLE pings for Tile's network, but they wont.

So then Tile's forced off their network onto Find My. But once on Find My, Apple products are again privileged with special abilities.

I'm not arguing Tile on the merits. Maybe it's the best product on Earth, maybe it's the worst. I don't care. The point is they can't build the best product because of Apple's 3rd party restrictions.

And if your response is "if you don't like it, go build your own cell phone company!", that argument is reductionist and absurd.

I love Apple as much as the next, but many of you are Apple sycophants. They are behaving as a cartel.

You've got it Apple uses their security walledgarden as a mask for.monopolised control and dictation. They already lost the fair treatment battle regardless though offering any one company a discount or special privilege over the next when they all pay the same service fee by contractual terms and agreement as their only legal breach claims epic had done.

 

[deevey]

Its because Tile charges $30-100 for the tile to be actually useful. This is way they want to keep there app.

Per year!

 

[I7guy]

Many of you fall for the illusion of competition. There's no competition. It's predatory.

Tile has a non choice. It can keep its own network and stay off Find My. But Apple won't give Tile the keys to have their network be as robust as Find My. E.g., they could figure out a solution to extend the iPhone/BluetoothLE pings for Tile's network, but they wont.

So then Tile's forced off their network onto Find My. But once on Find My, Apple products are again privileged with special abilities.

I'm not arguing Tile on the merits. Maybe it's the best product on Earth, maybe it's the worst. I don't care. The point is they can't build the best product because of Apple's 3rd party restrictions.

And if your response is "if you don't like it, go build your own cell phone company!", that argument is reductionist and absurd.

I love Apple as much as the next, but many of you are Apple sycophants. They are behaving as a cartel.

And the flip side, is Apple supposed to build an extension of IOS for every company that wants to use their (closed) platform? Frankly I can't blame Apple, they are caught between a rock and a hard place, as I see it. But nice generalization of the undetermined universe of posters who may offer a differing opinion.

 

[drumcat]

As a Tile owner, I can say this… Tile, you blew it. So many levels, you blew it.

 

[Jony Ive and Co.]

And if your response is "if you don't like it, go build your own cell phone company!", that argument is reductionist and absurd.

How on earth is this argument absurd. It's so true. It's a free world where people (Apple) can do whatever they want with their own products that they invented (i.e. it is Apple's free choice to not open up Find My if it so wishes).

It's just like building a nice house with a nice lawn, and your neighbour wants access to your lawn anytime she wishes for a weekend bbq party on YOUR lawn. It's your choice to give permission or not, as I can do whatever I want with my lawn.

 

[jca666us]

Many of you fall for the illusion of competition. There's no competition. It's predatory.

Tile has a non choice. It can keep its own network and stay off Find My. But Apple won't give Tile the keys to have their network be as robust as Find My. E.g., they could figure out a solution to extend the iPhone/BluetoothLE pings for Tile's network, but they wont.

So then Tile's forced off their network onto Find My. But once on Find My, Apple products are again privileged with special abilities.

I'm not arguing Tile on the merits. Maybe it's the best product on Earth, maybe it's the worst. I don't care. The point is they can't build the best product because of Apple's 3rd party restrictions.

And if your response is "if you don't like it, go build your own cell phone company!", that argument is reductionist and absurd.

I love Apple as much as the next, but many of you are Apple sycophants. They are behaving as a cartel.

Tile has had years - since airtag was rumored - to develop a superior product - and compete. In the last two and a half years, it seems all they've done is cry about "unfair competition"...

Let's be honest, the tile app is trash. You have to subscribe in order to get a decent feature set.

Tile has produced different form factors, but their battery life is poor and the performance is unreliable. That's not to say airtag is perfect; it's not. They need to improve tracking performance and increase uwb range.

Why hasn't tile tried to produce a tracker with uwb support?

 

[nutmac]

Tile has had years - since airtag was rumored - to develop a superior product - and compete. In the last two and a half years, it seems all they've done is cry about "unfair competition"...

Let's be honest, the tile app is trash. You have to subscribe in order to get a decent feature set.

Tile has produced different form factors, but their battery life is poor and the performance is unreliable. That's not to say airtag is perfect; it's not. They need to improve tracking performance and increase uwb range.

Why hasn't tile tried to produce a tracker with uwb support?

Exactly. The last time Tile launched new product was October 2019, both without user replaceable battery.

In that time, Tile asked Apple to license U1 UWB and relax "always on" location service all the while admitting to collect and resell user data.

I was a Tile fan with 8 Tile products. Tile's lack of innovations, ugly product design, and privacy policy are what made me stop buying Tile long before I heard about AirTag.

 

[Ghost31]

Wait, WHAT? So, your point of view is that if someone was to produce a groundbreaking phone with an amazing UI that delights customers at a reasonable price, with features that go beyond what anyone’s ever seen before… that it WOULDN’T be successful? Because I think Apple showed that if you DO do those things you’ll be successful. The bar has been raised but to assume that there’s something magical about Apple that makes it impossible for anyone to make anything better… I don’t even know what to say about that.

What stopped Microsoft was that customers didn’t want it. How badly did people NOT want it? They didn’t want it SOOO badly, that even purchasing the number one Cellphone maker of the day (Nokia) could not help it. Nokia went from top dog in smartphone sales to number nothing overnight because people did not want that OS.

Yeah, developers don’t want to develop for more than two operating systems. Let’s see
1) PC - of many varying performance levels
2) Sony Playstation
2) Microsoft Xbox
2) Nintendo Switch
Yup, by my count, that’s 2 operating systems. I was thinking that developers want to develop for whatever they think will make them money, but I think it’s that they really just want to develop for only 2 OS’s.

No it’s about install base, compatibility and a huge head start in the form of years of research and development and billions of dollars. We are stuck with google and Apple for the long term.

 

[whiteonline]

Like Samsung?

Yes.

 

[hipnetic]

That’s not how competition works. Pathetic.